What if Sting Had Started With McMahon?

byrnside

...Only if you believe.
Last night I went to a used CD/DVD store and managed to pick up a copy of Ric Flair: The Definitive Collection. Right now I'm watching the documentary portion of the DVD and I know how a lot of you feel about the whole WWE-biased documentaries that they put out. That aside, I just saw the part where Flair is talking about some of his matches with Sting. He said, "the only mistake that Sting ever made was not going to Vince McMahon."

Now this had me thinking. Within the past year we endured heavy rumors that Sting was going to sign Vince McMahon, but I've never thought about it like this. What if Sting started with the WWE instead of NWA/WCW? In the DVD Flair compares Sting to the Ultimate Warrior and rightfully so as the two were actually tag team partners at one point in time. The major difference Flair said of Sting was that Sting was actually a much better wrestler [obviously] and the things that Vince could've done with Sting would've been endless. Now my question to some of you is, do you think this is true or do you think this is another WWE-biased production? If you do think this could be true, then what do you think Sting could've done in the WWE instead?
 
If Sting went to WWE I dont think Sting would be who he is now. The whole landscape of wrestling and the MN wars wouldn't have happened. Sting was WCWs version of Undertaker. WWE would change forever.
 
If he had been in the WWF at the start of his career, he probably would have been an upper mid card talent. He wasn't going to take Hogan's spot, Savage would have already been established as the #2 guy, he wasn't going to take that spot either. The best he could have hoped for would probably have been to be the #3 face. That may even be generous.
 
Sting would have probably ended up being a large name and all that, but you'd have to ask yourself things like would he have ever adapted to The Crow inspired gimmick? Because seeing as it wasn't even his idea he'd probably have continued doing the Surfer styled Sting.

Plus, he obviously wouldn't have been the same Sting if he had started with WWE that he is today. For one, Sting is recognized as the guy who made it big without ever having to jump to the WWE. He had everything a top guy in WWE had and he was in no way designed or altered by the WWE, he'd never worked for the WWE and chances are he will never work for the WWE. If you start him off in the WWE, it is a large portion of what makes Steve Borden so respectable, gone!

Do I think its a biased production? No, what Flair says is a logical assesment of what could have been. If WWE could make so much money and market Ultimate Warrior as well as they did, take a guy who as Flair says was like UW except the fact he was better and obviously more professional, and you'd have more money with little to no problems.
 
Sting would have become a legend for sure, a Sting/Undertaker feud would have happened eventually as well Sting would have feuded with Kane, The Rock, Austin, Triple H, etc.
 
I think Sting would have been a star in 80's WWF, which means he would have probably been a bigger star all together. But, if he had been a WWF guy during his career, he wouldn't have gone on to do all the great things he did in WCW: the Vader feud, his matches with Flair, the Crow gimmick, etc. In WWF, Sting would have probably been a one or maybe a two-time champion, because he was very marketable, but in WCW, he was arguably the best they ever had. I'd still say Flair was the greatest WCW star, but Sting is probably #2.

I know I went the other route with that, that I talked about what we would have missed out on instead of what would have happened, but that's what I thought about. Do I want to think about Sting having to claw his way up to a match with Hogan, feuding over the Intercontinental title or hanging around the mid-card? No, I'd rather think about the legend that he is, not if could have been under the McMahon banner.
 
Flair has a great point, Sting could have catapulted himself into major stardom in WWF. Imagine if Sting became offended over WCW hiring a top babyface in Hogan, so he decides to duck out right before Hogan's WCW debut and makes a surprise run-in on a WWE pay-per-view. Considering Hogan's popularity was on a downswing on his initial WCW debut, losing Sting to WWF would've hurt WCW badly. Now imagine the main event scene of WWF in the early 90's with Sting: a feud with the Undertaker and Paul Bearer would be a given. Sting vs. Yokozuna for the WWF title, a promo-driven feud with HBK could have been the reason for introducing the bodyguard Diesel. I'm sure there could have been a tag team run in there with Ultimate Warrior as well. I would have liked to see it happen, so I agree with Flair.
 
I'm guessing he would of been a top main eventer seeing as he had the talent to be a star be that in WCW or WWF. I am pretty sure we would have never seen The Crow gimmick happen so if he did feud with Undertaker (being both big stars in the same company I am sure that would have happend) it would not be two dark characters going at it. I assume he would have gone through other gimmick changes in the WWF...perhaps some darker versions of himself maybe not. I could see him having multiple WWF Title runs and a good main event career leading up to and during the Attitude Era. Not sure where he would be now... maybe even still in TNA..If TNA would even exist. I don't know it's all guess work yeah.

A Tag-Team and at some point a feud with The Ultimate Warrior I guess also.
 
Even though every "what if" question is a loaded one, I'll bite anyway: I suppose your question is what if Sting & The Ultimate Warrior's fate had been switched? ...with Sting ending up with the WWF in the mid-to-late 1980s, and Warrior in WCW at that time? Even if that's not exactly what you're asking, that's the question I'm going to attempt to answer.

I think Sting might have been given a similar spot to what was given to The Ultimate Warrior. Maybe Sting's first "big break" would have been beating The Honky Tonk Man for the IC belt, similar to what happened with Warrior. Sting would have been big, regardless of which company he was with. The guy is just that damn good. I read the other posts, where some said Sting might have gotten stuck in mid-card hell with Vince's company (WWF)...but I don't agree with that. I think Sting would have been just as popular as he was in WCW/NWA with the WWF, but I'm not sure that the push would have been the same as Warrior's.

Warrior's WWF run was based on his intensity, not his wrestling ability. IMHO, Sting would have been able to push through that "glass ceiling" that Warrior wasn't able to get through. Sting also had a much better work-ethic, and better attitude about the business than Warrior ever had.

I'm not sure that Sting would have had as big of a "second run" with the WWF though. In WCW, I believe it was Scott Hall that gave him the idea to be "Scary Sting" (the Crow gimmick). That's when WCW put even more faith in Steve Borden, and turned him into their version of "The Undertaker". I'm not sure if Sting's "Crow" character would have gotten as big of a push in the WWF...the biggest reason why that gimmick was so successful is because of Hogan and the nWo. Had Sting not had such an impossible task (in defeating the nWo), I'm not sure that character would have become as huge as it did. If "Crow" Sting was in the WWF, who would he have feuded with in the mid-nineties? Shawn Michaels? Bret Hart? DX? No one in the WWF could have been a better opponent than Hogan and the nWo was for him.

Although we would have gotten some "dream matches" with Sting in the WWF, I don't think Sting would have stayed at the top of the card past the mid nineties. I know people are really down on WCW keeping the "older guys" at the top of the card, I think Sting was fantastic as one of their top faces once he went to the Crow gimmick (if not THE top WCW face). I just don't see Sting staying at the top of the card past '95ish in the WWF...just my opinion.
 
Sting would have been a main-eventer. Maybe if he did adopt The Crow gimmick in the WWF he would have been in the Ministry... It is an interesting concept to think about. Although there are rumors of him going to the WWE to finish out his career, I dont think he should. Since WCW ended, he is known, and has a reputation for being a big star who didnt have to become one in WWE. He is also arguably the best wrestler never to compete in WWE. I think if he went it wouldnt kill his reputation, but I would look at him completly different. Yes I admit it would be cool to see him there, but it would look like he sold out.
 
I really want to be sarcastic here as I'm getting sick of people asking what if's... who knows?? their all our opinions.

Flair has said that statement a bunch of times, I believe I read it in his book as well, I'm inclinded to agree to a certain point, Sting and WrestleMania could have been epic, specifically from around WrestleMania X8 onward when WWE coined WrestleMania the superbowl of Wrestling.

Sting going to TNA might of been good for him in terms of his longevity in wrestling but his legacy will always have a huge dent in it that he never did wrestle at WrestleMania! And considering he's a so-called "Legend" and "Icon" yet he never stepped in a WWF/E ring kind of makes him look like a big fish in a small pond depending on how the fans percieve him and his legacy.

I'm a Sting fan, I would have loved to have seen him compete in WWE around 2002-2009 period
 
Sting would be a Hall of Famer, long retired a legend in 2011 instead of a fat joke in TNA.

He would have come up with Warrior. Gotten a huge push for all the same reasons, and been the one to benefit most from Warrior's inane demands and personality quirks. With Sting around, Warrior would not have been able to hold Vince up for more money like he did. It would have changed everything during that time period. Sting would have probably become the greatest I-C Champion of all time, feuding with Randy Savage and Rick Rude. He may have even gotten the duke vs. Slaughter at Wrestlemania 8 instead of Hogan. I could see Vince putting Sting in American Flag make up for that storyline.

Sting would have Main Evented Wrestlemania at least once vs. Hogan, if not multiple times. He would have gone on to have classic Mania matches vs. The Rock, Jericho, HBK, HHH, Angle, Undertaker, and Kane.
 
Sting would never have been Sting in WWE to start with, he would have been lumbered with some crap gimmick. Sting as we know it would not exist.
 
The thing about the WWF/E is that most often than not they ran/run with a face champion, while the NWA/WCW was the opposite and used the heel champion to have length reigns and build up stars around them.

If Sting did go to McMahon, Vince would have utilised his superface potential and he would have been as big as Ultimate Warrior... perhaps instead of WM 6 being Hogan/Warrior it may have been Hogan/Sting... who knows...
 
I hate these what if threads about jumping ship. They are always based on a flawed premise.

My question is is Flair talking about Sting in 2001 or 1991? If he means the former Sting has stated he did not join the WWF because of prominent incidents of burial such as The Rock asking who Booker T even was. I think backstage borden could protect his character from the WWF brass but not the other WCW guys and if he were to feature prominently in the invasion the WCW couldnt all be jobbers accept for Sting and a few others. The downgrading of other WCW talent would had heard public perception of Sting.

If we are talking about 1991 which I think you all are he would be the midcard face counterpart to Perfect.. Part of the reason the Ultimate Warrior rose thru the ranks isbecause Jim Hellwig was a demanding individual and wasnt ashamed or afraid to be selfish. Because the UW character was popular, Hellwig had the leverage to take Mcmahon on.. There would not had been room for Sting.

We wouldnt of had a Monday Night War because WCW 's main line of defense wasSting and the NWO would had beaten WCW to easily making the overal product to weak and dead to take on the WWF.

STING JOINING THE MINISTRY is outragious. He would had been subordinate to Taker like how Farooq was to the Rock eventhough Ron Simmons had accomplished more.. Surfer Sting fueding with Undertaker would be a bust because Sting wouldnt be a top name at that time. It would be a lopsiding matching.

We wouldnt be able to discuss sting without the crow Sting. The original sting is only rekembered now because he was the earliar form of the crow Sting. Its true surfer Sting did alot for the early WCW and had awesome fueds with the likes of Vader but early WCW history has become obscured.
 
If he had been in the WWF at the start of his career, he probably would have been an upper mid card talent. He wasn't going to take Hogan's spot, Savage would have already been established as the #2 guy, he wasn't going to take that spot either. The best he could have hoped for would probably have been to be the #3 face. That may even be generous.

I disagree totally!!! With all due resppect, Ultimate Warrior, with a great look but WAY less in ring and mic skills, surpassed Savage and Hogan as the company's top star, albeit briefly circa 1989-90. The difficulty others had working with him and his own liabilities as a character and performer held him back from truly being one of the all time giants of the business.

Sting had the look, definatley had the athletic ability and ring skills, and was way better on the mic. Sting easily with the same marketing push would have reached the same heights as UT, likely better because he would have had staying power.

The only thing that might have changed was how much of Sting's ability, particularly in the ring, is credited to his work with Flair, particularly in 1988. If Sting left the UWF and went right to WWE (which is what Warrior did, remember he started in the UWF with almost the same identical character) who would have helped refine his skills and persona ?
 
I hate these what if threads about jumping ship. They are always based on a flawed premise.

My question is is Flair talking about Sting in 2001 or 1991? If he means the former Sting has stated he did not join the WWF because of prominent incidents of burial such as The Rock asking who Booker T even was. I think backstage borden could protect his character from the WWF brass but not the other WCW guys and if he were to feature prominently in the invasion the WCW couldnt all be jobbers accept for Sting and a few others. The downgrading of other WCW talent would had heard public perception of Sting.

If we are talking about 1991 which I think you all are he would be the midcard face counterpart to Perfect.. Part of the reason the Ultimate Warrior rose thru the ranks isbecause Jim Hellwig was a demanding individual and wasnt ashamed or afraid to be selfish. Because the UW character was popular, Hellwig had the leverage to take Mcmahon on.. There would not had been room for Sting.

We wouldnt of had a Monday Night War because WCW 's main line of defense wasSting and the NWO would had beaten WCW to easily making the overal product to weak and dead to take on the WWF.

STING JOINING THE MINISTRY is outragious. He would had been subordinate to Taker like how Farooq was to the Rock eventhough Ron Simmons had accomplished more.. Surfer Sting fueding with Undertaker would be a bust because Sting wouldnt be a top name at that time. It would be a lopsiding matching.

We wouldnt be able to discuss sting without the crow Sting. The original sting is only rekembered now because he was the earliar form of the crow Sting. Its true surfer Sting did alot for the early WCW and had awesome fueds with the likes of Vader but early WCW history has become obscured.

In the documentary it is unclear exactly what time frame of Sting's career he is referring to but it seems like he means after he established himself as main event star in WCW.

Warrior only got as far as McMahon would let him...remember Vince sent him packing in 91 and again in 92, and originally the plan in 92 was to have Warrior fued wih Flair and win the title, plans Vince changed when Flair was injured (ironically because of Warrior's carelessness in the ring) and UT's demands for money. Not even Hogan could arbitrarly dictate to Vince, and Hogan & Austin had a lot of leeway with McMahon in their time.

The NWO story would have worked without Sting, the difference is another face, likely Flair, Savage, or maybe Big Show would have had to be the WCW force to be reckoned with. Savage had the name and the drawing power and WCW could have played on the past rivalry with Hogan, Hulk betrays his Macho Brother again, plus Savage never got a win over Hogan in a meaningful match, never pinned him, fans would have been all over the prospect of Randy finally getting over on Hulk.

Flair would have been the most obvous choice because he was Mr WCW and because he was the biggest name on the roster other than Hogan. WCW could have traded on their rivalry, only now the roles would be reversed, plus the idea of gang warfare with the Dirtiest Player In The Game vs the cuthroat NWO could have provided some very edgy entertainment.

As far as Sting joining the 2001 Invasion, that probably would not have worked but only because no one else with a name wanted to join. WWE contacted Sting, Flair, Goldberg, all declined, showing slight interest. They sent feelers to Nash and Hogan and got lukewarm responses as well. Flair only agreed to come in after they already tried previously to get him and he turned them down, this time to end the Invasion Angle. Once Flair signed on, Hogan & Nash agreed to come back, later on so did Goldberg. It's possible if Sting had said yes in the beginning the others would have joined in sooner and instead of WWE vs The second and third string of WCW we might have had a WCW faction lead by legitimate main eventers. e might have gotten Aaron Rogers vs Ben Roethlisberger, Clay Mathews vs James Harrison, not the Green Bay Packers vs Pittsburgh Steelers practice squad which is what the Invasion angle looked like.

There's no way of telling what changes Sting's character might have undergone as the 90's rolled on under McMahon's stewardship. Yes, some guys only changed slightly through the years other than occassional heel and face turns, guys like Triple H, Flair, Hogan, Nash, etc. However we saw major changes to Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, and others. We might not have seen Crow Sting, which was a Bischoff concept that really worked, but Sting had the ability to carry other gimmick changes Vince might have come up with.
 
I really want to be sarcastic here as I'm getting sick of people asking what if's... who knows?? their all our opinions.

Flair has said that statement a bunch of times, I believe I read it in his book as well, I'm inclinded to agree to a certain point, Sting and WrestleMania could have been epic, specifically from around WrestleMania X8 onward when WWE coined WrestleMania the superbowl of Wrestling.

Sting going to TNA might of been good for him in terms of his longevity in wrestling but his legacy will always have a huge dent in it that he never did wrestle at WrestleMania! And considering he's a so-called "Legend" and "Icon" yet he never stepped in a WWF/E ring kind of makes him look like a big fish in a small pond depending on how the fans percieve him and his legacy.

I'm a Sting fan, I would have loved to have seen him compete in WWE around 2002-2009 period

Anyone who has folllowed wrestling knows that regardless of wether Sting ever wrestled in WWE he was not a "Big Fish in a Small Pond" - More people watched Flair vs Sting than WrestleMania 4 when the two aired opposite each other in 1988, this was years before DVR and multiple showings for PPV events either, and Starrcade 97 was the biggest PPV either company had that year. Other WCW PPV had done well vs WWE 94-97, even as far back as Starrcade 93, but none ever topped Wrestlemania in the same year.

Sting was main eventing when WCW was doing really good business in 1989 during the Flair-Funk run and was integral to the company overtaking WWE in ratings PPV buys in 96-98 when WWE finally made their comeback.
 
Warrior couldnt be sent out sooner then 1992 because he used his popularity as leverage. I imagine that by 1992 vince had so few stars left to feed Warrior he had nothing left to lose from axing him. Warrior was the forerunner to Goldberg.

Comparing Warrior and Sting is like comparing sin cara to mysterio. Yea similar aestetics and back grounds but seperated at birth?

The surfer Sting could not survive in the attitude era nor during the tail end of the federation years.. Sting wanted a 25 year career, it would had been a lot less bearable if he had lost relevence in the WWF by late '94. He would had been on the indies by that point sharing hotel rooms with Tito Santana.

WCW need a true alumn to aid it against the NWO. Flair was aged even before his WWF, Savage was a WWF guy, Luger maybe, and Big Show for whatever reason seemed green n WCW from his first day til his last.

As far as the Alliance's roster, Vince should had tried to go to Time Warner to buy their contracts then could had offset the cost by releasing alot of the WCW roster. He could had worked those guys to the death to get his investment back. He only needed about ten wcw guys and 7 ECW guys to get the 1990s dream matches everyone used to get wet over.
 
if Sting had started with McMahon and WWE then I think his career would have gone differently. He might not have seen the success he saw in WCW and later on in TNA. The better wrestler out of a tag team does not always get the better push, Miz and Morrison are the perfect example of that. Warrior would have gotten pushed over Sting in the WWE due to how much Vince likes bigger guys. The optimist in me would like to think that Sting would eventually have left to go to WCW and still become his Crow character. It all depends on how long he stays in WWE in the scenario this thread sets up. The longer he stayed with WWE, the less likely he might be to succeed. He would have at the very least seen midcard success and a world title shot or two. I still think he would have ended up in TNA no matter what in the end though.
 
This is a tough question because its hard to say if there would even be a sting character in this situation he could of became any gimmick. Sting is a great wrestler in the ring but if he started in the WWE in 88 by 93 he could of winded up like santana great in ring worker but that's it a tag title and maybe an Intercontinental title run but that's it or he might have replaced Bret Hart and had all his accolades but he would have not been Sting character. I think he needed to be Sting. in WCW to make this work cause the way the WWE is I can't see Steve starting out there and being sting. But if sting signed to the WWE In 93-97
 
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If Sting signed between 93-96 there is no doubt in my mind he would have been the face of the WWE or about to be the face because Bret Hart had the ring skills but not the charisma like Sting and HBK had ring skills and charisma but not the IT factor and that would be where Sting would fill the void to be the man in the WWE because he had all these attributes. Then in the attitude era he would have evolved to something greater than the stinger we knew possibly dark and mysterious or something more hard rockish but bottom line is he would been the face of WWE and had multiple title reigns. Now if he came in during invasion Stone Cold could of remained heel on team WWE and Sting being the face of WCW could have been a great story line and have WCW declare their own brand and we would have 2 brands like we do now. But we all know McMahon would never have thay because the WWE would have lose to WCW in the end. But Vince would of had him buried like he did every WCW star until he was ready to finally to do something with him. But I am happy with Sting career but all he needs is just one WrestleMania to complete his storied career.
 
He would have been surfer Sting in the early 90s, Ultimate Warrior would have probably not been as over because Sting was the colorful painted babyface a lot better than Warrior. Then when WCW started taking WWF's stars, Sting would have went with them because Bischoff and Ted would have offered him enough money.

Sting was NOT WCW's Undertaker. Totally different dynamic. Yea, both are dark but still good and shit but Sting was a revenge saga (greatest storyline up until the last 2 minutes of blowoff). Undertaker would have still been Undertaker, Sting would have largely still been sting.

It's cool to think of dream matches. Sting vs HBK would have been amazing. HBK got booed (even worse and more meaningful than cena gets booed) when he was a face because HBK isn't that much of a natural face, at least not in 1996. Sting would have been the perfect foil because sting is the most natural babyface I've ever seen. He just demands sympathy from every audience. sting vs Diesel (yea we saw Sting vs Nash but still), Sting vs Hart, Sting vs Yoko, etc.
 
Another two things i would like to add, the Ultimate Warriors build and shape would had gotten him favorable treatment from the brass. I don't think Sting was ever that big or defined. The spot the Ultimate Warrior held for three years might had only been for a guy who could have a Goldberg like streak. I cant see sting as THAT TYPE of dominater/destroyer. Ultimate Warrior had the size to bulldoze.

There is still the issue of Sting being rebought by WCW c.1993-6. I think he would be wanted by WCW early on and would go on to do most of the stuff we already know him for. Even if he came in in '96 he would still had been the WCW guy viewed as a Benedict Arnold. The transition from surfer to crow did not really take that long. Its like even if he jumped ship early on history would correct itself.:wtf:
 
Look things could have went one way or another. In retrospect, his career just the way it was made him one of the greats ever. Without including his TNA run, because TNA is not a real wrestling company. Maybe after stings run after WCW went outta business, he did join WWE it would have perhaps made him bigger. Well joining WWE even now for him would make his legacy bigger
 

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