What Have the Guns Done Now? | WrestleZone Forums

What Have the Guns Done Now?

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Uncle Sam

Rear Naked Bloke
No, seriously. Did they hit Dixie Carter's mum with a car or something? Because I'm watching IMPACT! and they lose to Lethal and Creed. Granted, it's not as bad as Reign and Rellik, but still, I thought this was all behind them and they were going to be treated properly from now on. The Rockers comparisons are going to be a lot more valid when they never experience any fucking success.

Before people start coming in here and saying losing would have made Lethal and Creed look weak: No, it wouldn't have. The Guns are an established tag team. Established (and seasoned, I might add) tag teams are supposed to triumph over oddball couples thrown together at the last second. It's the entire point of a fucking team. It's the way that makes the most sense and it's the way it's always been done. It wouldn't have slowed the other twos momentum at all. Now we get another however long of the Guns in tag team limbo. Fantastic. I don't even expect them to face LAX at BFG any more. TNA's booking is too fucking stupid.
 
This is one of TNA's biggest problems: They want to put these stupid gimmicks over their actual wrestlers. The Guns are the only guys in the company save for the occasional Styles match that I will stop whatever I'm doing to watch. They're popular, they work well in the ring, they have a great name, they have a good look, there's really nothing missing from them. And have they gotten the tag belts? Of course not. With the talk of breaking up LAX, another great team, I can only picutre Shelley vs. Sabin at BFG. Lethal and Creed aren't even a team. They're two guys that are both in the same division. Other than that, they have nothing in common but skin color and over the top gimmicks. What reason was there for them to even be facing the Guns? This is one of TNA's biggest issues: They don't listen to the audience. The Guns get cheers. That can't mean anything, let's have them be tag jobbers.
 
I did find the match rather weird and pointless. Why have a credible and great team like MCMG's lose to Lethal/Creed. Couldn't the Rock & Rave Infection jobbed to them instead of a promising team. My only hope is that the feud is setting up a HUGE MCMG heel turn(Shelley didnt shake Creed's hand)and MCMG can feud with LAX, which would be a tag team dream match for me anyways.
 
OMG, an "establshed" tag team got beat by two a non regular tag team. What is the world coming to? Oh wait, didn't that just happen in the WWE?. It has been documented before that the MCMG's were in the doghouse before. so maybe, just maybe they have to work there way back up and suck it up for awhile.

If they don't like it maybe they should jump to the WWE and see what happens, it seems to be working for everyone else that has left TNA. The other option is they go to ROH to be never heard from again.
 
MCMG lost one match, anyone would think it is the end of the world. If they cannot get over despite losing the occasional match, they cannot get over period. It's the internet bookers who are stupid if they think MCMG need to win every match they're in. TNA's booking is quite logical - MCMG are not featured on the card for the PPV, both Lethal and Creed are. So MCMG should lose that match, which they did. And by the way, I thought that match was pretty awful, and it wasn't Creed or Lethal's fault.

Presumably Beer Money are beating LAX at Hard Justice so MCMG still look to be the first in line to feud with the new champs, as MCMG/Beer Money already has that strap thing. The only thing that makes me question that is this teasing of a Shelley heel turn. We'll have to see.

By the way, MCMG get some cheers, but not a lot. Certainly they don't get even 1/10th of the reaction ODB gets. And when was the last time ODB won a match? Think about that.
 
OMG, an "establshed" tag team got beat by two a non regular tag team. What is the world coming to?

Well the world of good solid tag team wrestling is coming to an end, when you bury good teams like the guns, who are way over with the fans, for no reason all you do is damage your own tag division

Oh wait, didn't that just happen in the WWE?.

a.) This is TNA not WWE, they are two different companies, and if WWE does something it doesn't make it right or OK for TNA to do it, especially when it's just as ******ed

and b.) MCMG are a far more established team than Money Inc. 2.0, a team that just formed like a month or so ago, and were beaten by Batista & Cena, two former multi-time World champs, it's quite a different situation you see losing to a team like Batista & Cena isn't gonna damage Money Inc. 2.0s credibility nearly as much as the Guns losing to Lethal & Creed, two guys alot of people aren't really familiar with

It has been documented before that the MCMG's were in the doghouse before. so maybe, just maybe they have to work there way back up and suck it up for awhile.

The guns are/were in the doghouse for the stupidest shit you could think up, and by now I think they have worked there way out, they really havn't gone out a pissed and moaned that I've heard of, so it would seem they have been "sucking it up"

If they don't like it maybe they should jump to the WWE and see what happens, it seems to be working for everyone else that has left TNA. The other option is they go to ROH to be never heard from again.

I think I just mentioned they haven't been complaining about being in the doghouse, and just cause Chris Harris decided to become a fat slob after leaving TNA for WWE doesn't mean the Guns wouldn't get over, I beleive Punk worked for TNA awhile back and he's WHC right now, so parting ways with TNA seems to have worked out well for him, and the Guns are huge in ROH, in fact they get treated better by ROH than TNA, and could probably make fairly decent money working with ROH, as well as other Indy feds, god knows they'd be allowed to put show what they can do at least
 
I dont have a problem with the MCMG losing a match, I was just questioning the fact that it was sorta stupid that they made them job to two random wrestlers for no apparent reason, unless their planning a Shelley turn to feud with Creed. I just think it seems out of place.
 
I think the thought process is that MCMG are over and popular, so their losing wouldn't hurt their credibility at all. And letting Creed wins helps him immensely. Creed is getting a push and allowing him to win aids that.

It makes sense to me, but I hate it. MCMG, LAX, Beer Money, 3D, Christian and Rhino should only be losing to each other. If a wrestler needs a tag win to help his push, I agree with having them beat Rock and Rave.

MCMG have been losing too much lately, and saying that they are in the doghouse is just a stupid reason to job them out. If they lose momentum they will never be any good to TNA again. The losses to Beer Money didn't hurt them. They competed well on a championship level. The loss to Creed and Lethal is a career killer. WWE would welcome them.
 
Well the world of good solid tag team wrestling is coming to an end, when you bury good teams like the guns, who are way over with the fans, for no reason all you do is damage your own tag division

The MCMG are buried? How so? Being featured in a tag team match where they are on tv doesn't sound like buried to me. Triple X was buried. These two? No, they get on tv at least once a week on either Xplosion or Impact. But they are far from being over with the fans. Their matches consistently lose viewers, even when they put on great matches. But if you watched, you saw that they are about to go in a different direction. They make better heels, they are going to be heels again. More than likely in a feud with LAX, after Beer Money is finally put to rest at the ppv.


a.) This is TNA not WWE, they are two different companies, and if WWE does something it doesn't make it right or OK for TNA to do it, especially when it's just as ******ed

Actually, if anything, you should accuse WWE of doing what TNA did as this match was taped two weeks ago. But that's besides the point. The point is that the ending of the match tells a bigger story than the match itself. Did you hate it when a face Edge used to lose before he went super heel? Get the feeling that MCMG might be going that way to go along with their cocky demeanors? I think so.

and b.) MCMG are a far more established team than Money Inc. 2.0, a team that just formed like a month or so ago, and were beaten by Batista & Cena, two former multi-time World champs, it's quite a different situation you see losing to a team like Batista & Cena isn't gonna damage Money Inc. 2.0s credibility nearly as much as the Guns losing to Lethal & Creed, two guys alot of people aren't really familiar with

I could see if The Guns were carried out on stretchers, leading to some sort of injury angle where you were not going to see them on tv for quite some time. THAT is getting buried. This is the build up of a heel turn. They aren't getting over as faces, as noted in every ratings break down that comes out. If you want to talk about something that would not make sense, it would be if they won, and THEN turned heel. Why do winners turn heel? They don't. Losers turn heel and then BECOME winners. Plain and simple.

The guns are/were in the doghouse for the stupidest shit you could think up, and by now I think they have worked there way out, they really havn't gone out a pissed and moaned that I've heard of, so it would seem they have been "sucking it up"

Why do you assume that they are in the doghouse? Because they lose? newsflash. Everybody loses. And they didn't just take the loss well either. They dropped hits of bigger things in the future. If anything you should be salivating because this could be their big build up to a heel run. But no, you look at them just losing. The big picture dawg. Look at the big picture.

I think I just mentioned they haven't been complaining about being in the doghouse, and just cause Chris Harris decided to become a fat slob after leaving TNA for WWE doesn't mean the Guns wouldn't get over, I beleive Punk worked for TNA awhile back and he's WHC right now, so parting ways with TNA seems to have worked out well for him, and the Guns are huge in ROH, in fact they get treated better by ROH than TNA, and could probably make fairly decent money working with ROH, as well as other Indy feds, god knows they'd be allowed to put show what they can do at least

Actually, the time of the undersized team in the main WWE stage is over. It ended when they decided that they didn't want to invest time into Londrick anymore. So it's debatable as to whether or not they would get over in WWE. If anything, I think that the success of Londrick in WWE has lead to The Guns getting a good look and even the pushes that they have gotten so far. Why would they need to go to ROH and indies? That's like leaving Ruth's Chris Steak House to go work at Applebees and Jack In The Box. Sure, you COULD make the same money, but why work two jobs with varying environments and probably shabby safety measures with crowds who crave for you to break your neck so they can chant "Holy Shit" a couple of times to do it? In TNA, at least they work a little looser than they would outside of TNA and they still get paid well and entertain at house shows. So they lose a match or two on tv. That doesn't mean that they don't get over on house shows. I know it doesn't mean as much to some, but it's the same as if they went to ROH or indies. It's wins in places where only the live crowd sees it happen. So don't fret. I have a feeling that something different is in store for The Guns. Why don't we just watch and see rather than "jumping the gun" and assuming that they are being buried. Okay?
 
Well I think it all started back at Against All Odds when the guns refused to do a blade job in the match. Since then the guns have been on the downhill path, and honesty I could care less. Unlike some others I am not a big fan of the guns and I think the only reason why TNA keeps them together becuase their stuff sells so they figure I believe is there a need to push them as no matter what what happens to them people will still love'em and buy their stuff.

They got established some when fighting Team 3D, and now that makes then an establish tag team in TNA, so a win against the Guns means something though not as much as it used to with them losing all the time. I think we saw the beginning of a break for the guns least I hope so as Cage and Rhino will get the push before them to face the new champs Beer Money after Beer Money beats LAX.
 
You got to ask yourself two things. One who depended on more momentum going into the PPV, the Guns who don't have a match or Lethal and Creed who does. You can't have two of your PPV guys losing at the event right before the PPV. Also what plans does TNA have for the Guns. Are they going to turn the Guns heel? Or are they going to start a feud between Sabin and Shelley? Their losing streak can be for a reason.
 
You got to ask yourself two things. One who depended on more momentum going into the PPV, the Guns who don't have a match or Lethal and Creed who does. You can't have two of your PPV guys losing at the event right before the PPV. Also what plans does TNA have for the Guns. Are they going to turn the Guns heel? Or are they going to start a feud between Sabin and Shelley? Their losing streak can be for a reason.

I thought this may come up. It hurt the Guns way more than it helps Lethal and Creed. I mean, Creed's already cleanly beaten his opponent. Any more momentum he picks up after that is minimal. Whereas the Guns have finally come off a hot streak - Shelley in particular. And now they're losing to an oddball couple. Yeah, Shelley disputed the pin. It was still clearly a three count. However, I do see where you're coming from. I still say they're being buried though - it doesn't not count because this could be a trough before a peak, which also carries onto here...

The MCMG are buried? How so? Being featured in a tag team match where they are on tv doesn't sound like buried to me. Triple X was buried. These two? No, they get on tv at least once a week on either Xplosion or Impact. But they are far from being over with the fans. Their matches consistently lose viewers, even when they put on great matches. But if you watched, you saw that they are about to go in a different direction. They make better heels, they are going to be heels again. More than likely in a feud with LAX, after Beer Money is finally put to rest at the ppv.

They're buried because they lose unnecessarily, and have been for a while. Yeah, they get TV time, so they can be seen losing internationally. Yeah, could be a heel turn, but it still damages their image for the time being. They are very much over with the fans. Their merchandise sells like hot cakes and they get a loud pop even for the iMPACT! Zone. Losing viewers is an anomaly in this pattern, although I'd dispute that they consistently lose viewers. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just haven't seen the evidence to back it up.

As for the heel tease. I'm not sure about that. If they're going to go through with it they'll be teasing it more and more in coming weeks. Am I the only one that maybe sees Shelley interfering in Creed's match? I agree that they make great heels - it's even how they started out as a team in TNA, when Sabin was X Division Champion.

Well I think it all started back at Against All Odds when the guns refused to do a blade job in the match. Since then the guns have been on the downhill path, and honesty I could care less. Unlike some others I am not a big fan of the guns and I think the only reason why TNA keeps them together becuase their stuff sells so they figure I believe is there a need to push them as no matter what what happens to them people will still love'em and buy their stuff.

Isn't that the reason anyone stays around? I hate to go all Sly here, but yeah, it's about the moneys. Why do you dislike the Guns? I'm just wondering. They're charismatic (well, Shelley more so than Sabin) and damn exciting to watch.

They got established some when fighting Team 3D, and now that makes then an establish tag team in TNA, so a win against the Guns means something though not as much as it used to with them losing all the time. I think we saw the beginning of a break for the guns least I hope so as Cage and Rhino will get the push before them to face the new champs Beer Money after Beer Money beats LAX.

Cage and Rhino are a remnant of the ridiculous Deuce's Wild concept, and are very much the fifth wheel of the tag team division. They're just one team in a long line of repetitive 3D feuds. Beer Money? More like Beer Meh...Ey.
 
Isn't that the reason anyone stays around? I hate to go all Sly here, but yeah, it's about the moneys. Why do you dislike the Guns? I'm just wondering. They're charismatic (well, Shelley more so than Sabin) and damn exciting to watch.

Its not so much I do not dislike the whole gun team, as I am a fan of Shelly just not a big Sabin fan. Right now I feel they best be to go their separate ways as lets face it they will not sniff the tag team gold in TNA now with teams like Cage/Rhino and Beer Money in the picture and all these other pairings TNA comes up with. All the Guns are good for now is just to put others over. I guess the biggest reason is me not being a big Sabin fan as I find him so dull and really bringing down Shelly. I love watching Shelly in the ring but tend to lose interest when Sabin gets in the ring. So Sam that is why I am not huge on Guns though not because of Shelly.
 
Weren't Cage and Rhino a tag team before the Deuces Wild tournament? I mean if I'm not mistaken they weren't put together as a team by the luck of the draw. Also if I remember correctly, where Sabin and Shelley both heels before joined forces in TNA. Yeah I know they were a team in ROH and elsewhere. I have been around bookers of a wrestling organizations and even though they are fans, well for most part. There are a few I think aren't but anyways. Bookers don't think of ways that make sense to a regular wrestling fan. They think of in ways that can get them money and draw fans and draw attention.

For example one of my favorite wrestlers was in the longest losing streak in TNA and that is David Young. Young is a very talented wrestler and a former NWA tag champion. But they had plans for him and the losing streak was part of that plan. This losing streak by the Guns can be drawing attention to them, especially if they turn heel. Heck maybe now that they don masks, maybe they are going to be the arch villians of the Prince Justice League...LOL
 
MCMG have been pushed to the moon recently

Shelley won the "CMLL Grand Prix" featuring 16 superstars.In ROH shows MCMG won The Age of Fall(top stable) & Briscoes(i'm not sure) and drew with Aries/Danielson(ROh's Highest Stars) and in their tag team matches , they really squash their opponents until the end and lose in sometimes dirty finishes.So i don't think MCMG are misused or underrated,at least to me,they're overrated in TNA .Need to put more in-ring psychology and drop "ROH Style" like GG says
 
"Pushed to the moon"? You've just mentioned two matches they've won... IN OTHER PROMOTIONS. What does ROH even have to do with TNA? You make it sound like the SmackDown! to TNA's Raw or something. At least they've got a talent sharing sort of thing going on with CMLL.

And psychology is epically overrated. Not only is it not complicated, but it's not important. As long as wrestlers act like their characters, as the Guns do, they've got perfect psychology and everything goes fine. Just because they do flips and moves that you'd usually see in Japan, people are like "Oh my God! PSYCHOLOGY! THEY DON'T HAVE PSYCHOLOGY BECAUSE THEY DO FLIPS!".
 
The guns lost to Lethal and Creed because Creed is the number 1 contender and he needs to seem like a credible wrestler going in against a guy like Petey Williams. If he had lost it would make the guns look as if perhaps one of them deserve the shot more than he.

These guys are probably the best and most popular tag team in all of wrestling right now and TNA is wasting their talent. I'd love to see them take on LAX or even a Heel X-Division team
 
I agree with the original point of this post. When you're young you are supposed to keep your head down and do as told, so of course they were gong to be in the dog-house for a few months for not blading (tbf it was only Shelley, I don't see why Sabin couldn't have done it as well as Lethal). Now in my book, you do your time, take your punishments, keep quiet, and you're out of the dog-house. It's been over 6 months now, to me that's forgive them or fire them territory.

I don't expect the Guns to win the titles and beat every single team clean, I accepted it when they lost to Christian and Rhino and LAX and the like, but they're losing to everyone these days. It's not even that, they are just a fill-in team to extend other feuds and programs. They have no spot on PPVs. To me that's stupid because every crowd they go in front of loves them, their merchandise sales are up there with Joe, Styles and Kurt (I saw it with my own eyes at a show, MCMG sold out real quick) and they work a good match. A combination of being over, selling merchandise and being a good worker means you HAVE to be pushed!

I know they were the stars of Team USA... well, behind Kaz who is now going to be a videogame character........... but anyway, in the past, stars of the World X Cup then get promoted, Sabin became the biggest star in the X-Division, Lethal got pushed, Triple X got pushed, even Sonjay got a short push. It just seems like TNA didn't care about the World X Cup this time, it felt thrown together and now Curry Man is in the Justice League, Kaz is a fictional character, and the Guns are jobbers.

I feel this team is too good to waste, they can put a pair of rising singles stars together all they want, that's just temporary, a vehicle to carry them to main events, the Guns are never going to main event, but they can be a mainstay of their tag division for years and years. Put the straps on them at least once please, put them in a meaningful feud and let them run with it, Shelley's good on the mic. I liked the beggining of their feud with 3D but then it got stupid when Lethal got involved, give them something like that again! They'd get lost in WWE i think so that isn't really an option.
 
Momantum is a horrible thing. And with a debate against a far more experiance poster rappidly aproaching I'm coming to the conclusion that I've got too much of it. So the remedy the situation; I present to you, a TNA loving rant.

I got into a debate about this with... somebody a few months ago, after the Guns jobbed to... somebody; but since my memory is apparently off duty tonight, I think I can probably get some enjoyment out of having the exact same discussion again.

My lecturers keep telling me that brevity is the essence of a compelling argument, but I've got a ready supply of cola and Vaseline (for the fingers), so I'll let brevity go hang and give mindless ranting another run round the block.

Firstly, I'd like to look at what the Guns actually lost from jobbing on the last episode of impact. Of course, doing so would be very difficult without some kind of highly focused microscope, on account of them loosing next to nothing.

The MCMG are one of the most talented teams in TNA. Everyone lacking a serious visionary condition can see that they're one of the best teams in TNA every time they step into the ring. Hell, even people with impaired sight can tell that they're one of the best teams in TNA, since Mick Tenay and Don West keep on telling us... but I digress.
The point that I am feebly trying to make is that is simply doesn't matter if the Guns happen to loose a match every month of so. If they were getting squashed by Goldberg MK2 (project Morgan), or loosing every week I might concede that you guys have a point, but the last thing I remember them doing was having an outstanding tag match in the world X cup, and one of them (I forget who due the the aforementioned memory thing and lameness of Wikipedia) winning a 12 man elimination tag match at Victory Road. It's not exactly character assassination happening here, so I simply can't see what everyone is so up in arms about.

Seriously. If, next Thursday, TNA hold an 8 man tag team gauntlet to determine the next number on contender, and the Guns win it, is there a single person here who won't buy them as legitimate contenders? I know I would.

Now we've looked at why the Guns could afford to loose, I'd like to make a case for why there opponents needed to win. Unlike the Guns, Lethal and Creed actually had PPV matches this Sunday that they needed to carry momentum into. The Guns weren't on the card. Somebody's going to respond listing this as further proof on incompetent burying (without the double negative) of the Guns. Personally I'd say it's more of a case of TNA not being able to book everyone on every Pay-Par-View, and people getting pissed off when they try. But that's a moot point.

What the point is, is that the Guns opponents, or more spaciously Creed, needed to carry some momentum into Sunday's show. If you want proof of this, look at CQ's (my new abbreviation for consequences) match with Petey Williams, and note how the crowd was almost 100% behind the heel. Now I'll accept that this proves that what TNA was trying to do by jobbing the Guns didn't work, but I'll also wave this as a banner proving that what TNA were trying to do was something that needed to be done!

Finally, and arguably most importantly, the close of the MCMG's last match didn't simply end with them slinking off with their tales between their legs. It ended with an angle. Now, although it may not be apparent with my stoic defence of the company; I am cynical enough to admit that this may just be another non-story, like all that tag team dissention a couple of months ago; but until it proves to be so I'm going to assume that this means another program for the Guns. Which serves to further disprove the idea that TNA is treating these two like... say... Rock 'n Rave. They've just lost a couple of frickin matches; there not being dressed up in clown outfits, pushed into a male pregnancy angle or fighting in a looser gets his leg amputated match. People need to stop blowing their situation out of proportion.

There is a very strong trend for people around here to assume that "these people who took a grass roots wrestling federation, built it up at a highly impressive speed, signed some of the top talent in the industry, got a two hour TV deal and provided the WWE with more competition that they've had since the end of the Monday night wars" are a bunch of total incompetents with about as much ability for running a wrestling promotion as a collection of chimps with down syndrome. And the be honest, it's starting to get silly. Be critical of the booking, fine (I would be if 90% of the forum wasn't hogging the spot). Think they're pushing the wrong people, be my guest. But there is really no need for people to keep blowing tiny non-events like a three minuets Shark Boy skit, a certain guy not getting pushed of one to many stip matches on a card, blowing them out of all proportaion and using it as fuel to fire the newest incarnation of the Czena Suckz club.

TNA is da worst promotion evvarr!
 
I have to agree that MCMG are being misused. I don't know whether it's lack of creative or a punishment, but they should be doing something. It's almost as if they said "Ok MCMG are adequately over so let build someone else now instead of getting them super over." So it either is a punishment or just overlooking them for some reason (but then again this also happens with LAX).

I'd like to see more storylines with them but you are pretty limited. You really only have them 3D and LAX as legit teams. Christian and Rhino are just put together for the time being, Rock and Rave are simply jobbers and the "Prince Justice Brotherhood" is a comedy angle and not to be take seriously. As for Beer Money, I really think they were put together to get them more over and develop a potential feud, but even if you include them, then you only have 4 legit tag teams.

I guess we'll see where this goes from here...
 
I didn't like this at all. The guns aren't getting pushed at all. They are constantly losing to teams that are below them or aren't even really proper tag teams. Shelly and Sabin are just awesome. In all honesty, these two were the first wrestlers that got me watching TNA. I watched iMPACT for these two, and some weeks I only watch iMPACT to see the Guns and A.J Styles in action. I think they just have bad luck in all honesty. They need to win the tag titles but TNA just doesn't have anything planned for them at the moment. They need a decent push but they just don't receive it.

Sure they were featured in the World X Cup a few weeks ago, but they wrestled superstars that aren't even on the TNA roster. I would be very interested in a LAX vs MCMG feud and then the Guns should go on to face the current tag team champions, Beer Money. They are being misused and I really find that sad. They have so much talent and deserved to be booked in a much better way.
 
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