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Professional Wrestling as a whole commotity incoporates many factors that makes the entire "sports entertainment" if you will successful. It is basically a show of roleplaying characters, creating storylines between these characters & having all the issues be resolved in the ring, which attempts to continue along with the storytelling whilst these characters are performing. For one factor to work, there needs to be a definitive line between who are the evil villians of the plot & who are the good heroes defending rightful honour. Generally, it is depicted that the good characters face off against the evil characters where the audience watching the story sides with the good character, naturally. The story goes back & forth between the characters, emphasising both sides roles giving feeling & emotion to the feuds. It all cultimates into that one final match where the story tends to lean for the good hero overcoming all odds in defeating the evil villian. This is something that has made professional wrestling very successful over its years during the "kayfabe era" & always provided a solid foundation for any wrestler.
As the industry grew with the development of the internet, the mainstream media devulging its thoughts on the matter & professional wrestlers starting to move away from their "kayfabe" characters outside of life... the professional wrestling audience watching the shows began to understand how the business works & how these stories are scripted for the purposes of entertainment. Fast-forwarding through time to the modern day shows how the industry has been impacted on since the whole world discovered that it was all scripted from the beginning & how a team known as the "Creative & Booking" decided how the stories would play out to the audiences. Along with this, came the realisation of the fans knowing or having an idea of how the wrestlers themselves would portray their characters & emphasis their roles in the story now knowing that "kayfabe" only was applicable to the ring.
The knowledge of internet sources, professional wrestlers seperating their personal & wrestling lives as well as people from the business sharing their sides of the stories, fans have become more intelligent about how stories & matches go. They know that they can sit back & relax whilst watching these matches, systematically analysing what is occurring in the ring & how the characters in the match/story are effectively showcasing themselves for fans entertainment & the business. Fans have started to moved away from the mystery that is "kayfabe" by cheering on the heroes & booing the villians, instead substituting it for cheering the characters that is doing the better role of utilising their characters to further develop the story/match & booing the one who is not contributing to their full potential.
Take the Randy Orton versus John Cena match at the recently aired Breaking Point PPV where they went against each other in an "I Quit" for the WWE Championship in a rivalry that has been "on & off" for the past couple of years. Randy Orton plays the villianous evil character known as the "Viper," someone who slithers & consistently processes & updates himself to become part of the situation who is very sadistic in doing so. John Cena took the position of the hero that is determined to never give up & mimick that of a real life superhero in the form of a human being, showing that the right thing to do is be a good person in life. Throughout the match, both Orton & Cena were met with a mixed reaction from the audience where Randy Orton was cheered moreso than John Cena, despite the fact that Cena was the man to led the audience onto his side. The reasoning behind this was because of the fan's knowledge being able to point towards Randy Orton saying that he is the better character playing the role better than John Cena is. They felt it was neccessary to show their support for (Orton,) the man who was giving them the entertainment the company & the feud was attempting to deliver to them. Most of these same people decided to boo John Cena as they feel that he is becoming a stale character that is losing the audience's interests yet someone who still has potential to become one of the best.
Reason 1) It hurts the show.
Reason 2) Vince says it's a bad thing.
Reason 3) Because heels don't want to be cheered.
Mostly accurate, but for the assertion about the kayfabe era. Kayfabe went ages ago, and wrestling has still remained built around the concept of the good guy against the bad guy. The reason being that this is what works. Kids are a massive section of the wrestling audience, and want the show to be booked round heroes. To get heroes you have to have villains, and if the villain is getting cheered then they're failing to be a villain.
What you appear to be using these three hundred words to say is that people know it's scripted... to which I respond so what. People know 24 is scripted, that changes nothing. The show is built around the concept of good vs evil, and if people are cheering for evil then it means something has gone wrong
And the argument in there is what? Given that John Cena is the company's top draw and the best wrestler in the world, all you appear to be pointing out is that a handful of fans who want to show everyone how smart they are decided to try and spoil the atmosphere for everyone.
I'm not going to bother with your next block of text; I'll just summarise it as "fan feedback", which is the first coherent argument you've put forward. That being said, you've immediately handed me a massive weakness to exploit when you say that "the fans are the best critics". Whilst this sounds nice, it's totally untrue. What a handful of smarky twenty-somethings feel the need to shout has absolutely no baring on the wrestling audience as a whole. If that minority had been taken seriously then John Cena would have been fired years ago, instead of developing into one of the most popular wrestlers in the company. Vince already knows how to draw money from wrestling. It's the same way money's been made for the past fifty years. Good vs Evil; and they do not want people undermining that.
Of course people cheering for the bad guy is a bad thing.
Falcon-on crowd noise said:When we get to this point, this is doing everything but hurt the show. One of the most important factors of professional wrestling is the audience. If the crowd is dead, everything about that entire evening will become lackluster. Not even the match between Shawn Michaels & Undertaker could garner anything above a 4 star match rating. When the crowd is electric where the camera's are shaking from the noise, what you hear in the ring is being overtaken by the crowd & the people at home are subject to chills down their backs from the noise, it is up to the show to put on anything decent or above to achieve a 4 star rating. By having the rebellion from the crowd & the retaliation from the other audience members can attribute to the crowd becoming more electric. This gives off the impression that the crowd are being sucked into the show to believe it is real-life by displaying the passion & enthusiasm to what they are witnessing. In turn, their reactions give a sense that the match is worth something more. The atmosphere given by the audience in doing this process definitely helps the show in this regard.
Falcon-on fans cheering said:However, during some certain spots of the match, the audience might appreciate what they are seeing & are completely blown away from what has happened. They intend to give the respect the spot deserves, whether it may be applause to both competitors for the execution or by a specific wrestler performing perfectly. There are situations where the heel character does so where the crowd has no choice but to give thanks as it is entertaining them.
Falcon-on James V Stratus said:An example of this was the Mickie James vs. Trish Stratus match at WrestleMania 22 for the WWE Women's Championship. Throughout the whole feud, the audience showed their hate towards the psychopathic James in order to will on Trish through the end & become the victor. No matter what James did, she was able to gain heat from the audience & thus fulfill her job. When it came time to have the match between the two girls that would ultimately be the match of the feud, the crowd responded postively to the newcomer James, cheering for her due to her excellent portrayal of a psychopath, offering something new to the division & being entertaining. As for Trish, the audience felt that it was time for the rookie to be handed the torch & have Trish lose the match for this to happen.
Falcon-on Shelton Benjamin... for some reason said:Let's take Shelton Benjamin for example. During his last couple of year's, the man was not able to gain anything from the crowd at all. The audience took one look at Benjamin's character & decided that he did not entertain them at all concerning character. He had little connection with the crowd & his only use for entertainment was in the matches that was on a rare occassion. Sure, he can perform heelish acts & garner face support from the crowd, but his lack of entertainment/crowd connection did not help him positively whatsoever.
Falcon-not understanding how to draw money said:So what if a heel gets cheered if he is entertaining the audience. You can't draw money from someone who does not entertain can you?
Falcon-on how I was right all along said:Yes, of course that is the case. I understand this that the purpose of having a heel is to draw heat from the crowd & the face is to garner support from the crowd. For the good vs. evil storyline to work, this might hold true.
Falcon-one more time with feeling said:the purpose of having a heel is to draw heat from the crowd
Falcon-on something said:Having the crowd cheer for a heel here isn't all that bad as it gives the management an idea as to who to give the next face spot to when the time roles around to switch wrestler's fan alignments.
Falcon-why we should turn all heels face said:If you are failing to be a villian, then shouldn't that constitute a fan alignment change? If you are a character that seems to entertain the fans to the point where they are in agreeance with what your actions & words suggest by cheering you on as a heel, they are voicing their opinions to say that they think having the character playing the face role would become more successful.
Falcon-different types of fan said:The kids are an essential part of the audience that gets the situation of cheering the heroes on & fulfill their job well. They help promote the good vs. evil storyline and keep the tradition alive. The older fans of the audience are there to not only do the kids role, but to show who they think deserves to be heel or face judging by each wrestlers/characters entertainment factor & expressing that in the form of cheers/boos.
Falcon-I have no fucking idea said:You say that it does not matter the show is "scripted" yet you keep insisting that the good vs. evil storyline is a major part of the show. Well, in professional wrestling having a storyline needs to be "scripted." Thus, the angles will not work as efficiently if done "on the fly" consistently.
Falcon-CZENA SUCKS! said:The argument here is not what you suggest at all. Apart from the statement of calling John Cena the best wrestler in the world, which he is not & something for another topic, having a few people spoil the atmosphere could not be further from the truth. The crowd was merely expressing their love for what they were being presented with & felt entertained by Orton's actions. Even though he is a heel, they cheered him on as he was offering something different in these torturous situations. His character went hand-in-hand with the situation & the crowd felt it was their duty to applaud how Orton entertained them.
Falcon-something to do with Czena said:You say that the minority is a huge influence on the professional wrestling companies like the crowd's perceptions of a man like John Cena, yet you disagree on the minority of the audience that influences the company to switch fan alignments or feature stars more prominently because the fans seem to cheer on people who entertain them regularly. This is major exploit here that renders your argument null & void. If it weren't for the minority, John Cena would not have received the face alignment turn as quickly as he did. He entertained the audience enough where they cheered him & the company switched to keep the good vs. evil storyline alive.
If crowd noise where truly that important then Ring of Honour would be doing considerably better right now. The WWE has the tamest live audiences outside of Japan, yet is light years ahead of any other promotion in terms of success.
A hot crowd can make a show better, as long as it works together with the storyline. Similarly, a hot crowd that works against the storyline can turn a good match into a complete joke. I'd present an example to back this up, but you've already done it for me, so we'll just carry on.
First, there is a difference between fans cheering for a match, sand cheering for a heel. "That was awesome" is absolutely fine, and hurts nobody (provided it doesn't follow Orton punting a crippled child in the face).
However, once you get onto the grounds of the crowd specifically cheering for the heel, then you get towards what I like to call RVD syndrome.
RVD was brought into the WWE as a heel, but had no idea of how to work the style properly. He insisted on building matched around athletic high spots to try and get himself over, the result being that he could never draw heat, and was a complete miserable failure as a heel.
The WE was forced to turn his face because he couldn't get over as a heel, and when your bad guy can't get over as a bad guy, that is not a good thing.
Here's the example I was waiting for. One smarky crowd turning the entire angle into a complete joke. In this particular Mickie had been interfering in matches, assaulting the divisions top face, and as memory serves even kidnapped another diva. So goes out on the biggest stage of them all, and gets a standing ovation.
Now I'm a cynical twenty year old, so I think it's funny. But if I were young, as the vast majority of wrestling fans are, then I'd have been left confused and unsatisfied by the match. In this case it was women's wrestling so nobody gave a shit, but when it happens in real match it can totally undermine the storyline that the WWE are trying to tell.
What has Shelton Benjamin got to do with anything? Last I heard the crown never reacted to him at all.
Well, that small minority who boo Cena and Batista have an unfortunate habit of cheering for him, which just goes to further show that live crowds do not make good critics.
Except you can't draw money from a roster of babyfaces, it's never worked. For sports entertainment to sell you need to have good guys and bad guys, and if the bad guys can't get people to boo them then the show falls apart.
If a heel gets cheered then it means their character is not working, and usually when something stops working it is considered to be a bad thing.
Thankyou. You've pretty much conceded that argument here. Let me quote you again.
Having the crowd cheer a heel shows that they're not working as a heel. If it happens to one guy then it's not ideal, but can be easily remedied by a shift in gimmick or alignment.
And then what? Those douche bag fans are going to cheer for the heels regardless, and once you turn them all face you don't have a product.
Except the kids (and their parents) massively outnumber the smarks in terms of the TV and PPV audience. There is a reason that the WWE doesn't book for the internet wrestling community, and that reason is because there's hardly any of us.
On the whole people on the internet hove no idea what draws in professional wrestling. If Vince booked based on those people's voices then Shelton Benjamin would have defeated John Cena in a 60 minute iron man match long ago, and nobody would have paid to watch it.
Seriously, either I've suddenly gotten dumber, or you need to put some serious work into delivering a coherent point, because once again I don't have a clue what you're on about.
Everyone watching wrestling knows that it's fake... but then everyone watching anything on TV knows that it's fake. The point is allowing a viewer to suspend disbelief, which is difficult to do in the face of ridiculous crowd reactions.
Well... Cena is the most successful wrester in the world today. I didn't think anybody on this forum was dumb enough to argue against that any more.
I've already explained that this undermines the product, complicates the booking and shows that the heel is not functioning in his roll.
There is a reason why the WWE has never tried to make serious money out of Cena as a heel, because he is too entertaining to make it work.
Heels are supposed to get booed.
If you can't get booed then you are a bad heel.
Having a bad heel is bad for business.
Heels getting cheered is a bad thing.
How about instead of pages on incomprehensible drivel, you explain to me exactly which part of the above you do not understand.
It seems like the seven days of work & having final's matches with all high-profile Australians sports have started to take its toll, the reasoning behind not posting as fast as my opponent.
How do you spell someones name wrong when its present when you check through my works?
ROH is your example? That's as weak as you're "Vince says its bad" argument. Have you seen the arena's these guys fill compared to the likes of the WWE? They are nowhere near the size that WWE seems to fill week in, week out.
Does it matter if the WWE sacrifices storyline structure in order to gain money & send home happy customers?
Does it matter if the WWE sacrifices storyline structure in order to gain money & send home happy customers?
Rob Van Dam did not do very well for himself in establishing himself as a heel. However, what does this mean when he gets cheered for the most part?
a good thing stemming from a bad thing.
If a heel gets a cheer, is it bad?
This match was considered one of the best on the card, so I can assume that this drew something for Vince.
To the audience, Shelton did not entertain them. So, they delivered a dead reaction to him showing their opinions about a man whose character has nothing to connect with.
Live audiences are there to be entertained. If they the show does this, they will cheer/applause for who they think satisfies them the most. If something or someone on the show isn't doing anything, it will be met with boos/dead reaction. If you send home unsatisfied customers, you have lost your business.
So, by having a [cheer?] for a bad guy will not completely derail the show from its tracks.
Mocking me? Not a good move Gelgarin.
I simply agreed about the purpose of the heel in professional wrestling. I understand this completely & will admit this. However, this is ultimately up to the fans to decide if they would like to swallow certain wrestlers as heels or faces by showing what they really think.
For a while, Edge was gaining cheers as the crowd decided that it was time for him to turn face.
Not true. If you are doing you're role correctly in the eyes of the fans, they will support the good vs. evil storyline by cheering the faces & booing the faces.
What does this contribute? It is a stupid move to cater to the internet fans, they are a minority.
From what we are arguing, you have gotten dumber. Or you do not have the coherency to understand the serious work that I am delivering, because I still have no clue why you keep giving me malnutritioned-points with little details. Unlike you however, I understand as I am able to comeback at you about everything you have said.
You say kayfabe is out the window yet you say crowds must be suspended in disbelief with wrestlers & how they are aligned with the fans.
So you change the statement on me? You said he was the best professional wrestler in the world today, which this was not true, then go to he is the most successful in the world today, which is more accurate.