Rebuttal Of Opponent's Rebuttal Concerning My Initial Rebuttal
Just because something is PG does not instantly make it relevant nor valuable in today's WWE. You mentioned that the 3-year mark hasn't even been hit yet. Well, in the 3 or so years that the PG era has been in place, performance is also down. So often at the crux of criticism is boring and mind-numbing vignettes involving your lil' buddy Hornswoggle.
1) The PG-rating is definitely an influence on the modern WWE & can factor into creating particular aspects to become relevant or valuable. This is one of the main issues that the product is based around & needs to implement everything fitting to that criteria.
2) Where does this criticism come from? I know, the Internet Wrestling Community. What a complete shocker that is, the IWC giving negative feedback on something they don't like on the television even though it may be beneficial to the business in the long run.
3) The reasonings behind the lack of performance has absolutely nothing to do with the PG ratings era being the main factor. The WWE have failed to create an new stars to rise the rankings to take over the roles of Undertaker, Shawn Michaels & Triple H for when they eventually retire. I would keep going, but this is for another debate.
Now you're just insulting the fan base. When I was a 12-, 13-, 14-year old wrestling fan, around the Wrestlemania 7-9 era, I fully grasped the concept of The Undertaker, Jake "The Snake" Roberts, et als. At that age, during the Survivor Series, I recall the PG-character "The Gobbeldy Gooker." Well, my "fragile mind" connected enough to realize that segment was a terrific chance to go and pee.
Sometimes the truth hurts. If you didn't forget, the target audience starts as low as the six year old age mark. Something tells me that children at this age don't have the ability as 12 - 14 year olds in understanding concepts that goes into various wrestling characters that well & will generally go for those that stand for righteousness or mimick someone that relates to them. Hornswoggle is a perfect match for this area.
Even the young fans watch wrestling for the wrestling, as evidenced by the young fan base Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio have. Besides, if the goal of the WWE was to have the PG focus right now, why put Hornswoggle on Monday Night Raw from 9:00 pm - 11:00 pm during the school year when these kids are, presumably, in bed or doing homework? Why not stick him on Smackdown from 8:00 pm - 10:00 pm on a Friday night? Clearly Hornswoggle isn't in place to be a vessel of a PG era of the WWE.
If only debates where allowed the disappointed smiley, because this is a perfect example of how that particular one should be used.
Do you remember that RAW is the flagship show where it is the driving force in the WWE that articulates what the current product is all about? You must considering that you are older than me & have much more experience as a professional wrestling fan. So, if the WWE's main focus is the PG-ratings era, then RAW will be based solely around this as many people recognise RAW over SmackDown due to its history. That is how it has always been. Prior to the PG era, RAW was the more wrestling based show being a little more edgy than SmackDown, that was a family-based product showcasing the entertainment.
If Hornswoggle is placed on the flagship show of the WWE that targets a young audience not even in double digit ages where he constantly gets TV time & is the main attraction of his segment, then clearly Horny seems to be something right.
Remember, SmackDown is on MyNetworkTV in the United States which I can safely presume is WWE's largest market. This channel I believe is not feature across the nation & is still growing. RAW however, is on a much more larger network that reaches out to many households. Is any of this clicking with you or do I have to reiterate again?
You mean the midget who parades around like a leprechaun and gets beaten down by the big monster heels every so often? Yes, kids, here's a great lesson in bullying. Find the smallest kid in the yard and target him. What better way to promote the PG era than with a lesson in bullying and offensive characterizations of people with disabilities
I think I covered this in my previous argument, but I shall state it again just to let you understand the concept of Hornswoggle. It seems as if the WWE Universe has taken some sort of liking to the character enough to give him good solid face reactions from the crowd week in week out. He is in a position to give the rub to many people in reputation by mere association.
What has Chavo done recently other than his short ECW title reign or his short stint in La Familia?
Nothing.
What type of reactions that he received before Horny?
Not the amount he is getting recently.
What has Evan Bourne done since moving to RAW?
Being Swagger's opponent in a game of Squash.
What happened when Mark Henry or other heels like Chavo picked on & bullied Horny?
Instant heel reactions that got them noticed.
What happens in the end of all these heel situations?
Hornswoggle comes out the victor of the situation by fighting back & proving everyone wrong.
It is not promotion of bullying & targetting the "different & not normal" people when they exit as the one who walks out as the winner. It is showing the kids that no matter is thrown at you, all you need to have is the courage & the determination to not stand down & you can achieve anything. I believe this is
similar to what the face of the PG-ratings era "John Cena" does as well.
Next, you attempt to extol the merits of Hornswoggle as a competitor who is "over" despite criticism of his angles with Chavo Guerrero and antics involving his disappearing into a wall while being chased by Carlito. Sure, he's gotten cheered by the crowd before, but you haven't noticed that reaction dying down as of late? Falkon, the character is getting stale because he's done nothing in the last 2-3 months than participate in a gimmicky, dead-end feud with Chavo Guerrero.
Have you seen his entire career? He has always gotten cheered by the crowd despite what fan alignment he has been. He has always been over with the crowd & even during the feud between Chavo/Hornswoggle was still receiving decent-sized cheers that seem to overpower some of the other faces like Primo on the RAW roster.
Being tied with the same feud has shot down some of Horny's crowd reactions, which I concur with you. However, this is with every other feud where it constantly features two stars competing against each other. During the Triple H/Randy Orton feud, apart from the Orton antics, the Triple H face reactions where significantly dying down as well because of boredom with the feud,
not the competitors.
I've seen Evan Bourne live. The only reason people care about him is the Shooting Star Press. Unless the WWE brings the light heavyweight title back for guys like Bourne, he's not going anywhere either.
Hence the reason why he is involved with Hornswoggle & Chavo to cease the feud between the two & find a way to get reactions with the crowd. Thankyou for proving my point.
I am certainly not saying that Hornswoggle hasn't had his place in the past. His work with Finlay made sense. Making Hornswoggle into Vince McMahon's illegitimate son was a necessary disappointment due to the suspension of Mr. Kennedy. He had a good run.
But the debate question asks whether he'll have a place in 2011 and 2012, and you don't actually believe creative is going to keep his character fresh enough as a side show gimmick to be successful, do you?
Considering how creative has stepped up to the plate recently in making good television on the weekly shows, currently trying to build up superstars for the future, are in the PG era, looking for people that draw ratings & are able to adapt Hornswoggle to various situations for comedic purposes as you have conceded, I can believe that the WWE will keep him for another 2-3 years. If they can make Legacy look credible after what they have been through as Orton's lackies, then anything is possible.
Next, (and I found this hilarious), you attempt to show the merit of Hornswoggle as an actual wrestler. And you try to do this by citing victories over normal-sized competitors in...wait for it...NWA WISCONSIN!? Please, Falkon, PLEASE tell me you didn't just try to claim Hornswoggle could be a serious wrestler / contender in the biggest wrestling company in history because of his one-time title reign as NWA Wisconsin X-Division champion!
The mere fact that Hornswoggle was given the Light Heavyweight Championship in the WWE devalued THAT title to the point where it had to be retired. Like when Harvey Wippleman won the Women's Title. When you make a championship a 100% novelty, you ruin it. It's as simple as that.
1) How many other midget wrestlers have won singles titles in divisions other than the crusierweight/light heavyweight divisions? To my knowledge, Hornswoggle is the only one. Coming from this conclusion, I can say that Horny has something to contribute in the professional wrestling business if he is able to muster up a push from any promotion. Oh, did you notice how we are talking about
professional wrestling, not amateur?
2) It was the Cruiserweight Title, check your facts there. Anyway, they were already talks of defuncting the championship so the cruiserweights of the roster were able to take the same path as Rey to branch into other divisions. Add this to the fact that the division was already seen as a novelty before the arrival of Horny to the division. So, there is no harm in having Hornswoggle taking a title reign that had no interest for comedic purposes.
3) There is still a Women's Championship & is the best female title on the WWE roster. I won't go any further here, its for another discussion.
You're right, just look at the success and tradition of NWA Wisconsin.
If the accomplishment is able to get on Wikipedia with sources, it must be worth something.
His competition was Ted DiBiase Jr., who'd not even debuted with a major show yet. There was NO crop of rookies in 2007. Besides, the Boogeyman won that same award in 2006. And he's where now? Whoops, another pure novelty character out the door!
From now on, just file arguments such as "NWA Wisconsin" and "2007 PWI Rookie of the Year" under the heading "How I Will Now Help My Opponent Win This Debate."
And where was Ted DiBiase before the WWE Crisis Mode? Just a jobbing tag team with Cody that earned a tag team title reign to be a legitimate threat for when they did start jobbing to the higher ranks. Hornswoggle did something that DiBiase didn't do & that has garner a connection with the crowd concerning characters. Horny is a unique original where Ted is just another 3rd generational superstar that speaks of his history parading around like he is God's gift to the Earth. In storyline, Horny is a second generation star, but he doesn't parade around & look at what he receives.
How are people supposed to believe you're argument of "Im supplying you points to make you win this debate" when I have clearly shown you why my discussion is correct using you're points to boot more often than "Two achievements" whilst providing lengthy details instead of sarcastic rhetorical questions/statement? Oh wow, I can do it too. Does it make my argument more powerful? Quite simply no.
So we're now making hiring and retention decisions based solely on one's propensity to avoid drugs? Hardy and Mysterio, independently of one another, draw more money on one PPV than Hornswoggle has ever drawn in his career.
Well, its because they are professional wrestlers employed to wrestle. It is their job to do so. If they don't draw being the names they have, then something must be wrong. Hornswoggle is a comedic entertainment character that wrestles for this purpose & is needed to gain reactions from the crowd or to get people interested in some situations that wouldn't simply work without someone like Horny.
In addition, I was not making any sole references here. I was making the point that Hornswoggle is a reliable individual that can be used consistently without being caught in areas such as drugs, unlike some superstars like Mysterio & Hardy.
Again, you're stuck on insulting the minds of children.
Here's the thing - this kids WWE is trying to attract? They're going to grow up. Most of them will be in middle and high school in 2-3 years, and Hornswoggle with be as lame to them as he is now to us fans with "intellect."
Again, the targetted audience starts as low as six years of age. Considering that the PG-rated era in attracting kids will be here for a while where sizable portions will be around that age demographic, they need something to accomodate them. Hornswoggle is one logical fit at the moment & will not be brought of TV anytime soon with the target audience this low. Maybe if it were around the 10 year mark, I would take a new attitude.
The current thinking & processes the WWE has implemented is that the children will move on to brighter pastures as a wrestling fan as they get older by climbing the ladder to other stars such as John Cena or maybe Randy Orton. However, the WWE has achieved its purpose by using Horny as the initial star to get kids interested.
No, it was because they had no where to go after their novelty ran out. People would have taken a one-legged wrestler and a mental ****** about as seriously as contenders in the WWE as they would a leprechaun. Oh, wait...
What is the difference between a mentally-disabled with a one-legged wrestler & a leprechaun? The leprechaun is still with the WWE. One can safely presume that a factor that contributed this was indeed the PG-ratings era. Need another one? The leprechaun is actually doing something beneficial for the business other than attracting sympathy.
Wow, I feel violated.
Wait, no I don't.
Boogeyman = Pure Gimmick = Fired.
Did you write that down?
I feel violated by the atrocious mathematical skills you possess, if you can even call it knowledge. Let the teacher correct the student by re-writing that equation for you.
Boogeyman's Pure Gimmick = Failure
*
*Can be substituted with Fired if the situation neccessitates it.
Did you understand what I did? Boogeyman's character had nowhere else to venture to other than being a complete failure. There were too many conditions to fulfill & had to be eliminated from the whole process.
Now you're calling him ELITE? Pardon me, but ARE YOU HIGH? He's done some entertaining (and some annoying) vignettes with other wrestlers and got over for a short time, absolutely. But I repeat - when the gimmick runs its course with the fans, as it is sure to do (and is already doing), all that is left is a midget wrestler with no serious contendership in a world class professional wrestling organization and no other midgets to wrestle.
Hornswoggle is not being used as a full-time wrestler. He is a comedic character that does everything for a particular purpose that seems to satisfy everything the WWE needs right now. He has done better than other gimmicked wrestlers like Boogeyman & Eugene who will be kept until he is no longer useful. If he is still on WWE television, then he must be doing something right.
Dear God no he's not. That's like saying Rey Mysterio's son Dominic was part of the youth movement. He's not a developmental talent like John Morrison, CM Punk, Randy Orton, Ted DiBiase, or Cody Rhodes.
Firstly, Dominic was there for storyline purposes to enhance the feud between Eddie Guerrero & Rey Mysterio. He does not count as he is not employed. Secondly, all those talents you have mentioned are not developmental talents as they are on the main WWE roster, not FCW. You mean they are talents who are developing into superstars.
He's young, but to claim he's an appreciable part of the youth movement is erroneous. Hornswoggle's clock is counting down as more talented young contenders move in. The short attention span of ALL wrestling fans, including the much shorter attention spans of very youthful fans, will eventually doom a one-dimensional gimmick like the leprechaun.
From what you described, the Youth Movement are young people entering the WWE as performers on the roster. Horny fits this description, unless you did not explain yourself clearly enough on the Youth Movement.
Can I repeat this here, Hornswoggle
IS NOT hired to be a professional wrestler with the WWE. He is hired to be a comedic relief & provide entertainment. If it requires him to wrestle, he has the credentials to do so considering his indy circuit. Right now, he is doing a great job & will continue to be featured in his role no matter how many young bucks enter the scene. As long as he does what the company asks of him, then he is not going anywhere.
