We Need To Stop Thinking This Way...

[Martin Gabriel]

We need to stop thinking that everyone we think has good wrestling ability and/or charisma should get a World title run. A lot of people say the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships have lost prestige over the years because of how many times they've changed hands but also, if the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships were put on all the people we think should be champ at least once, then it'll definitely lose prestige and value. So I think it's a good thing that people like John Morrison and Cody Rhodes have yet to win a world championship in WWE, even Daniel Bryan, and for the belt to stay off of guys like Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger. Why? Because they're just not ready for the title scene in their current state. They have OK mic skills. They have OK to ABOVE AVERAGE wrestling ability. But they're certainly not GREAT. And on the contrary, with all this being said, imho, Sheamus and Alberto Del Rio weren't ready for championship runs. They're OK on the mic. Sheamus is green in the ring and Del Rio's average. But they put the belt on Sheamus 'cause of his connections and so they could get the Irish audience and then they put the belt on Del Rio because they were going to Mexico and 'cause they need a new Latino to take Mysterio's place when he's gone 'cause that's coming up soon (I know, Sin Cara too).

But really, next time one of us says "so-and-so should get a title run," let's really think about it. Should they really? Are they ready for it? Are the fans ready for it?

 

[berlinbrawler]

You have a point in that when too many people get a title run it stops being special. The problem is that there is just so much wrestling on TV these days. 2 major shows every week, (at least) one PPV every month.
You can't compare this to the days of Hulk & co when everything progressed at a much, much slower pace. With a TV presence like this there is no way that Hulk Hogan would have had a multi-year run on top like he did. People would have gotten tired of him long ago.
So this faster pace results in a lot more title matches and therefore much more frequent title changes. That's why we have a 12 time champion in John Cena. At least that means Cena lost 12 times. Imagine the last 6 years Cena had won EVERY SINGLE TIME at every RAW and every PPV. Someone eventually beating Cena would have been really special then, true, but at what cost?
In this sort of environment it only makes sense that more people who deserve it get to have a run. Ted DiBiase Sr., Rowdy Roddy Piper, Mr. Perfect - there can be no doubt that all of these guys would have had multiple title reigns in today's day and age.

 

[BK Styles]

......to a degree, I can see where you're coming from. For the record though, Swagger and Ziggler are former world champions, so that should factor into why people want them to become champs.

Personally, good mic skills and good charisma is enough to become world champ. Look at Miz; one of the longest reigning world champs in a while. Edge was good in the ring, not brilliant, and look at his success.

But by your reasoning, people who are above average and not fantastic aren't world championship material. So, that alienates most of the upper-midcard in WWE. So, the only guys who should be champ at the moment are Cena ( alright in ring, lots of charisma), Triple H (all round excellent), CM Punk (shown himself to be not only great on the mic, but great in the ring), Randy Orton (slick in the ring, and mindlessly aggressive) and......that's it? Hmmm...not sure on that one myself.

 

[GameOver]

Nice that you lump everyone into one group as do "all" the IWC. geesh

why do we need to stop it, isn't the point of people performing at the best so they can be rewarded? and in Hulks era the reason it progressed so slow was there was no global TV shows on a regular basis everything was house shows other then PPV's and Saturday Night Main Event most of the time titles only changed hands at PPV's since that was the only globaly viewed shows and what happened on American soil wasn't televised until months later elsewhere in the world. I know from Australian perspective we were 6 months behind PPV's and news from WrestleMania 4-6, WWF stars toured here that had long since lost there titles but when they came here they were still in a fued or the champion as they were according to our timeline. That would never happen today

I disagree too that if Hogan was in his prime atm he wouldn't be able to pull off atleast a year long run, he was more then that Cena held the title for the better part of a year not long ago, it's only the recent few years he's lost alot more then he's won.

Why do you care if the title changes so often? does it really matter, it's been that way for a decade now and it's only just starting to get to you? The titles haven't meant anything in along time, it's about entertainment/trying to sujprise people not titles.

don't agree, but that's the philosophy of TNA and WWE.

 

[MFBASED]

The problem with WWE today on TV is the poor-writing. No superstars have been made since Batista and Cena. Punk almost... Miz maybe...

The talent is there, the match quality is high when given time. But the lack of character/charisma/acting-skills hurt.

Lazy writing has caused talent to receive world title pushes too quickly. Plus having two world champions under one federation is fundamentally wrong. Before this, there was a "B" storyline that didn't revolve around the world title, thus generating high interest about the wrestler on a level that wasn't championship driven. Now, not only the A story is about the world title, the B story is too.

Stars are made because of belief and timing, not because they're world champion. You either have "it," or don't while being at the right place, right time. And unfortunately right now, not many people have "it," or been given the opportunity to show and prove "it," or even worse de-railed due to egos.

Inconsistent booking and hot shooting titles are not helping.

 

[mdj2010]

The sad reality is that these belts aren't special anymore. As another poster has already mentioned, there is so much wrestling on the TV nowadays and so many other ways for wrestling fans to entertain themselves, the belts just have a habit of getting passed around left, right and centre, ensuring another reason for us to even tune in.
The days of the belts really meaning anything are long gone and you could argue that the last time they did was shrtly before the demise of Benoit and Eddie. Frankly, they could stick the belts on whoever is selling the most merch (and for the most part this is what they basically do when it comes to face champs) and I could care less, as long as the product is sound overall.

 

[D-Man]

I've been talking about this for a long time.

This just adds to the never ending list of things that members of the IWC complain about. It's a double-edged sword. On one hand, you want deserving wrestlers to wear a title belt and be rewarded for what we feel they deserve. On the other hand, if the WWE or TNA catered to this type of opinion, EVERYONE would be a champion. And then what? The world title would have little to no meaning.

That's why none of the promotions listen to anything that we have to say. We constantly contradict ourselves through our opinions and views of world championships and who we feel are world champion material.

 

[EchoesFayt242]

The problem is with the audience. Since WWE went PG the product has been aimed as a family show. The majority of the fans are little kids who are Cena/Orton fans. The problem is these fans won't give anyone else a chance. When I was younger and was first watching WWE I was a massive Rey Mysterio mark. I never gave anyone else a chance. Other than Mysterio I kind of liked RVD because of his in ring ability which was all I cared about then.

As I grown older I've not only realised that Mysterio hasn't changed at all but that WWE will hand out chances to up and coming guys perhaps giving that a World Championship reign but only for a few months. I'm talking about people like Swagger, Kennedy, Ziggler even to some extent. These guys all have huge potential but have been held back because they don't go down well with the fans now. Next time you are watching raw listen to the pop someone like Cena gets and listen to the pop someone like Ziggler gets. The majority of kids aren't behind Ziggler. Sadly kids are the target demographic for WWE.

I am probably not the only one who is sick and tired of WWE's lazy booking of Cena. I'm tired of being force fed fruity pebbles each and every week. With the same generic promos, same generic feuds and the fucking same generic matches each and every week. The problem is if it ain't broke don't fix it. Cena is one of WWE's largest profit makers and it is all because of stupid little kids who can't see the light with John Cena and want to be force fed rainbow colored shit for the rest of their childhood. The Rock highlighted this perfectly when he made his return promo and laid the Smackdown on Cena. To be frank WWE is giving the finger to any sophisticated wrestling fan because as much as we want to see guys like Ziggler, Rhodes and Bryan succeed they will be turned into wood to throw onto Cena's fire.

Personally frequent title changes are due to the fact people like Cena and Orton who are down right terrible to watch at times need to be given the title to keep the little kids happy. Until WWE can take these guys out of limelight and give others a chance WWE will grow stale as a product among sophisticated wrestling fans

 

[S.J. Maximus]

We need to stop thinking that everyone we think has good wrestling ability and/or charisma should get a World title run. A lot of people say the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships have lost prestige over the years because of how many times they've changed hands but also, if the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships were put on all the people we think should be champ at least once, then it'll definitely lose prestige and value. So I think it's a good thing that people like John Morrison and Cody Rhodes have yet to win a world championship in WWE, even Daniel Bryan, and for the belt to stay off of guys like Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger. Why? Because they're just not ready for the title scene in their current state. They have OK mic skills. They have OK to ABOVE AVERAGE wrestling ability. But they're certainly not GREAT. And on the contrary, with all this being said, imho, Sheamus and Alberto Del Rio weren't ready for championship runs. They're OK on the mic. Sheamus is green in the ring and Del Rio's average. But they put the belt on Sheamus 'cause of his connections and so they could get the Irish audience and then they put the belt on Del Rio because they were going to Mexico and 'cause they need a new Latino to take Mysterio's place when he's gone 'cause that's coming up soon (I know, Sin Cara too).

AMEN. There was a thread on here a while ago praising William Regal's abilities and saying he should get a world title run, which was a few months after a Goldust thread was created saying the same thing. What most of the fools here don't understand is that just because someone is good doesn't mean they should be world champion, it simply means that they're good. The World Titles (which everyone agrees has lost their prestige) should only be given to the best the company has to offer.

Pro Wrestling is an art form that mimmicks sport, in the NFL teams don't win the Super Bowl simply because they're a fun team to watch, they win because they are the best team in the league and they earned the prestige. In the WWE, booking should mimmick that concept by only giving the title to the top guys because they are the best, not every exciting character should be champ. Keeping the belt on Cena, Orton, Punk, Christian, and I guess Henry now would be a little infuriating at first, but when a guy like Ziggler comes in to shock the world and defeat Orton for the title, he's automatically cemented as a top guy, much like when Bret Hart beat Ric Flair 1992 or when Kurt Angle beat the Rock in 2000.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

You make a good point. I don't agree on your assessment of the wrestling ability of some of those you named, but it's true that this is really one tired complaint that those who make it should put to rest.

Everybody can't be a World Champion. Everybody can't be in the main event. It's just not feesible in any realistic way. The main event scene has never been this revolving door in which everyone in the company gets their shot to be the top guy. Why? Well, the biggest reason is that, simply put, not everybody has what it takes to really be a main eventer. That's just a cold hard truth that fans, and even some wrestlers, have to accept. Does that mean that some guys get passed over that could have been main eventers? Absolutely it does. Does it mean that guys who shouldn't have been thrust into the main event picture sometimes get the spot? Bet your ass it does. Creating stars to carry your company as main eventers isn't an exact science. If it were, guys like Shelton Benjamin, Matt Hardy, Shane Helms, and countless others would have been multiple time World Champions.

There's nothing wrong with having favorites of course because we all have them. We all have wrestlers that we personally think should be at that next level. It's the most natural thing in the world for any fan of any sort of sport. But just because YOUR guy doesn't get the spot that YOU think he should get doesn't mean that the titles have lost prestige or that the company as a whole sucks.

To some degree, I think we've put a little too much emphasis on the main event. It's important, don't get me wrong on that, and it's always great to see talent that you think is deserving to get a spot there. At the same time though, a guy can still be a great wrestler and have a great career while still being firmly planted in the mid-card. Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson shined as mid-carders. I personally think they could have been main eventers but it didn't happen. Didn't mean that they didn't have great and memorable careers.

 

[TheChristmasCreature]

Just because the championship belts change hands doesn't mean that they lose prestige... I get that hot potato-ing the belts can be annoying but it goes to that old "any given sunday" belief...

Besides, does that mean that the UFC belts that constantly switch hands are less prestigious? Champions there do not defend their titles as often as WWE champions (keeping in mind that one is to suspend belief when watching WWE)...

Take a look at the UFC title history here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UFC_champions

 

[Pedigree1]

Where to go with this?? Too many chefs in the kitchen at once! The titles mean little to nothing due to alot of things!! The product isnt the same anymore.. Too many PPVS at once remember the good ol days 4 a year superstars on saturdays thunder and nitro!! WWE going PG i think has nothing to do with the titles being not so special anymore!! Its just the writers cant determine from one week to the next whos the guy the man!! Punks build over the summer was for nothing he should still be the champion having his pipe bomb and telling us whats wrong the company!! That was golden and WWE dropped the ball again on that one. TNA with Roode being the champ now about time for that one. The audience as long as the product and the guy is credible will follow him thats just my two cents

 

[kokoBawesome]

When I got back into wrestling after a three year lull I was lucky enough to watch the start of both Jeff Hardy and Edge's career in the WWE. These were guys I wanted to see break out so badly but because of how strong the top tier was, and how young they were, it was a long wait. After a few years of always coming close, I finally got to see these guys win the title and those moments mattered. Same with some of the all time greats like Bret Shawn and HHH, they paid their dues and when they finally won they became legends.

Swagger comes in and after maybe two years gets a title, Sheamus six months, Bobby Lashley was about a year in. Maybe its old school thinking, but the longer it takes the higher the payoff for the fans and the wrestler. If Dolph is chasing that first true title run for another year or two, not only will he be better off for it, the IWC members that are calling for it are going to love the payoff. If Dolph Ziggler wins the title on Raw next week it really wont feel special for anyone. Worst of all for him. I honestly don't remember how Sheamus won or lost his first title. If Swagger retired tomorrow, would we really want him remembered as a world champion?

So what if a top few guys get title shots over and over again for a few years? When someone new breaks into that world its going to be a big deal. Now we have a high mid card, former champions that aren't in the hunt. These guys could be chasing the IC title instead, which would make that title way more prestigious. Steve Austin was the top star in the WWE for almost two years when he won his first title, through that time he was fighting for the IC belt with this guy that called himself The Rock. After a few years of playing second fiddle and building their rep as midcard guys they became the top two wrestlers in the history of the company.

I guess I'm calling for patience, but its really easy to jump the gun to get attention in wrestling. Shock the world and hope it brings in a few thousand fans overnight. Too bad that the adults that followed the WWE at the height of the attitude era are in their thirties with lives and families and aren't coming back because the Rock stopped by one Monday.

 

[willross]

Edge was good in the ring, not brilliant, and look at his success.

WOW BUDDY!!!!!!! Who do u think is "brilliant" then.....I wanna hear this lmao cause Edge is pound for pound, skill for skill, Top 10 of ALL TIME, easily!!!!

This thread is pretty lame....the business is so different today and the fans attention span is a lot shorter. 4 month reigns are probably going to be the norm for a while. Hopefully when Ziggler and Rhodes are ready they can get the Cena, Batista runs they had in 2005 to establish them as being THE guys.

But until they feel like Ziggler, Rhodes, Bryan, and Barrett are ready we won't see very long title reigns for a while.

The risk is way too much for the reward at this point and playing hot potato for a while with Orton, Cena, Punk, Del Rio, Henry, and Sheamus is perfectly fine for now.

 

[supaman5279]

The old saying is that if youre not in the business to be the world champion...then youre in the wrong business. being the champ is special, so special wrestlers(the ones who deserve it), should be champion. sometimes the belt is put on certain people in order to get them over and build them to be bigger personalities. nash was hbks big bodyguard until he went over bob backlund in seconds..then he became hbks big wwe champion. del rio needed to win the title with all his talk about destiny or he wouldve been just talk and went to the back of the line. as far as morrison and rhodes go, in the world that the wwe universe exists in..they have done nothing..even daniel bryan has done nothing. why else do you think theyve been burying him since day one. hopefully by the time wrestlemania comes around at least 70% of wwe fans will take his seriously. when eddie first became champion i was very happy but i was concerned that the "wwe fans werent ready for it." keep in mind that he was champ before rey and benoit was and NOBODY under 6ft was champion since jericho...and even his run was a little overlooked. the more wwe plays hot potato with the belts the more i agree with jr in saying that theyre just props..but that also comes from the OLD school generation who said that if your not here to be champ then get out. its still very prestigous to be champion, if it wasnt then they wouldnt recognize them(NWA, ROH, TNA, RAW, SMACKDOWN).

 

[RicoLen]

We need to stop thinking that everyone we think has good wrestling ability and/or charisma should get a World title run. A lot of people say the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships have lost prestige over the years because of how many times they've changed hands but also, if the WWE and World Heavyweight Championships were put on all the people we think should be champ at least once, then it'll definitely lose prestige and value. So I think it's a good thing that people like John Morrison and Cody Rhodes have yet to win a world championship in WWE, even Daniel Bryan, and for the belt to stay off of guys like Dolph Ziggler and Jack Swagger. Why? Because they're just not ready for the title scene in their current state. They have OK mic skills. They have OK to ABOVE AVERAGE wrestling ability. But they're certainly not GREAT. And on the contrary, with all this being said, imho, Sheamus and Alberto Del Rio weren't ready for championship runs. They're OK on the mic. Sheamus is green in the ring and Del Rio's average. But they put the belt on Sheamus 'cause of his connections and so they could get the Irish audience and then they put the belt on Del Rio because they were going to Mexico and 'cause they need a new Latino to take Mysterio's place when he's gone 'cause that's coming up soon (I know, Sin Cara too).

But really, next time one of us says "so-and-so should get a title run," let's really think about it. Should they really? Are they ready for it? Are the fans ready for it?

Yet another General Wrestling thread placed in the WWE forum because of high traffic.

WWE is a farcical competitive sport. Fans seek validation for their WWE superstars they follow, and so it's natural to want whoever it is you're following to win the WWE Title. It's the nature of the beast.

If we were to do as you suggest, and I'm not saying it's a bad idea mind you, it'd take a complete change of culture from the fans to the superstars, to the booking, and to upper management, and creative.

This is aided by some guys, like Jake Roberts, Ted DiBiase, Scott Hall, and a few others who never won a world title, course even Hall got a USWA Unified Heavyweight Championship. People know that these guys were great and deserve permanent recognition for their contributions to the world of pro-wrestling.

Ron Killings is a man who is headed into the twilight of his career, and in my opinion gets far too little love for his contributions. So what is the natural remedy for this problem? I want to see R-Truth beat the WWE Champion and take the title, at least for a short period of time, while he can still compete at a high level, and before he slows down.

I don't know that this complete change of culture is possible given the nature of pro-wrestling, but in a sense it's already there too. When all is said and done, and the wrestler has faded into obscurity, people WILL look back on the good ones and pay tribute, even if it's only in the form of threads on a forum like this titled "Remember that time when so and so did this?" or "What if so and so had done this instead?"

Even more to the point, eventually those same wrestlers DO fade into complete obscurity and at that point in time people fight tooth and nail to get those wrestlers into some kind of Hall of Fame, whether WWE, PWI, or what have you.

To this day I would kill to see Haystacks Calhoun put in the WWE Hall of Fame. He was the originator and quintessential hillbilly and one of the first real superheavyweights the likes of Yokozuna would have envied, having weighed in at one point in time at over 800 lbs.

So I don't know. I get what you're saying, but in a sense I think we're already there, but I don't think it'll ever happen completely either.