WCW did make stars

[slikrik84]

I watched the Eric Bischoff interview the yesterday and was frustrated at the idea that WCW never made stars. Bischoff barely even challenges the notion that they didn't make any stars besides Goldberg. I don't know if he is supposed to ignore the fact that they made other stars and just go along with the revisionist history created by the WWE or what... but they made stars!

Obviously... Goldberg. He was every bit as hot (for a shorter period of time) than Austin or the Rock.

DDP? The guy that hosts all the WCW DVDs they put out. Yeah, I'd say that guy was a star. Who teamed with Leno and Malone vs. Hogan and Rodman? DDP. Yeah, he was a star alright. In fact, the reality is that of the current WWE active wrestlers, it can probably only be argued that Cena and Lesnar are bigger stars in terms of the mainstream public knowing who they are. Obviously part timers like HHH, UT, and others would be right there but Page was a big star.

Chris Benoit? Booker T? Scott Steiner? All three of these guys were big stars in pro wrestling. I would argue they were all bigger than Sheamus or Ryback by a hundred miles. Benoit left a world championship on the table to go to WWE. He was already a star. Booker T and Scott Steiner were put in the main event picture and then kept around WWE (Steiner for less time with that temper but still) and put in high profile roles.

Lex Luger? The Giant? Ric Flair? All three of these guys were world champions in WCW before even going to WWE. Who stole stars from who?

Both companies stole stars and both made stars. I almost wish both would have gone out of business and been bought by an independently wealthy person like Mark Cuban who could tell the story in an unbiased way. Makes me sick sometimes listening to the slanted nonsense put out by the WWE.

I would argue that Jeff Jarrett was made a star by WCW as well. WWE put him in the mid-card and in some high profile feuds, but WCW made him a world champion. If you don't want to give WCW credit for Jarrett then you must at least give them credit for Sid because he was on his way to being huge in WCW.

Of course you also have the franchise, Sting. Who WWE just had in a main event at the age of 56.

I'm a huge fan of Mick Foley (this is just as an example) and I was one of the people that turned the channel to watch him win that title but if I had been watching Raw and they had spoiled the ending to Nitro that Page was gonna win the title or even Booker T, I would have changed the channel to watch it.

In addition to all that I will say one last thing here, it's not a wrestling company's job to make stars. The job belongs to the talent. I'm amazed at what Big E, Xavier, and Kofi have done to make the New Day entertaining and a joy to watch. What a stupid gimmick. Do you realize how many people would fall flat on their face with this gimmick? They've made it work because I believe that at least one of them (if not two or all three) have potential star power. They're great.

That's a relevant example because look at Booker T's ascension to the top of the business. The guy was in a tag team called Harlem Heat. There was no gimmick other than what those guys made it. But they also weren't at a gimmick disadvantage... which is what the New Day appeared as (at first) to me. Stars can't be stopped from shining.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Depends what you consider a star. Jarrett, Booker and Steiner were WCW stars when the promotion was a crumbling, nonsensical mess. DDP, Luger and, to a lesser extent, Goldberg were only stars in WCW. Most would consider them WWE flops.

But wrestling extends beyond WWE so you can't really say that certain guys in WCW weren't stars. There's no denying that there should be a bigger list and if they'd tried to create more, instead of relying on the old guard, then that promotion wouldn't have slumped so quickly.

 

[TheICChampion]

Stars can't be stopped from shining.

Try telling that to Cesaro. WWE's doing everything it can to stop that star from shining. I agree with the rest of your post, though.

 

[sMark]

WCW indeed made stars:
Flair (if we count NWA as part of WCW), Sting, DDP, Scott Steiner, Goldberg, Giant, Booker T, Vader, Muta.

To this day i think the major mistake was to keep Nash & Hall under contracts in 99-01.
After nWo angle was done, these 2 done nothing good for WCW, their matches always was poor, many young talents were leaving because of Nash's politics, these 2 ended Goldberg's streak, because the guy was more popular.

Some will say WWF will take them back, but whould they really, the whole lockerroom hated The Kliq and will sure protest against Kliq rise again and take their spots

 

[relentless1]

WCW didn't make much main event stars, but they did make plenty of recognizable faces. If they hand there'd have been no leverage for guys like Goldberg, Steiner, Rey Mysterio etc to be trumpeted the way they were upon entrance into the WWF/E after WCWs collapse

 

[Vanilla Midget]

When they use the phrase "made star" I think they're refering to someone that they brought from obscurity to become a star. Flair came from NWA, same thing for Luger. They "made" Goldberg in that he was Power Plant trained by them and his in-reing debut was a WCW ring.

The way wrestling was expanding in the late 90s and with the territoried all but dried up and turned into the indies, there wasn't things like NWA or WCCW for testing grounds. There was less born and bred wrestlers. Benoit for example would have been a wrestler regardless of making his major debut in WCW or WWF. Wrestling was his dream and he chased it. The same can be said of Sting, although WCW made Sting in the sense that he debuted there first.

I'd say the biggest stars WCW made were Sting, Booker T, and Goldberg. Everyone else made themselves or were made elsewhere. If you look at who was coming up in WCW towards then end, were any of them really going to be stars?

Guys like Shawn Stasiak, Mark Jindrak, Chuck Palumbo, Sean O'Haire (rip) and others were in their early days. All of these guys didn't amount to much in WWE. Had WWE stuck around, would they? O'Haire had the most wasted potential of them all, gifted guy, but mental demons that eventually took his life.

WCW was headed the same direction WWE was into the Ruthless Agression Era. The "Attitude Era" stars were either going to slow down or retire and be replaced with homegrown youth that lacked the larger than life qualities that made wrestling great in the 80s and 90s.

WCW not making stars is a very true statement. WCW having stars, your damn right they did jack. Some of the greatest stars of all time, and wrestling in the 00s arguably suffered in their wake.

 

[wrestler36]

I think he gets a bad reputation, but I always thought Buff Bagwell was a big WCW star that could've been a big WWE star under different circumstances. He was pretty good as the young, underdog singles. Then with Stars & Stripes and American Males. Then of course, working with Steiner, Buff was MAJORLY over.

I'd put Faarooq/WCW up there too, of course being the first black champion.

But really, with the exception of Goldberg, DDP (rookie at 35yo), Booker and Buff, they really didn't develop new stars until it was too late. Guys like Jindrak, O'Haire, Palumbo could've been studs if given more time. The stuff that O'Haire was doing in the ring was nuts. I was surprised WWE let him go

 

[MWRedskins]

I watched the Eric Bischoff interview the yesterday and was frustrated at the idea that WCW never made stars. Bischoff barely even challenges the notion that they didn't make any stars besides Goldberg.... but they made stars!

oh no doubt, WCW and Bischoff helped make some WCW Stars, however, WCW didnt push many of those stars until it was WAY too late to push them. Goldberg was the big star they pushed when WCW was doing well.

DDP? The guy that hosts all the WCW DVDs they put out. Yeah, I'd say that guy was a star. Who teamed with Leno and Malone vs. Hogan and Rodman? DDP. Yeah, he was a star alright.

DDP was a star that they pushed, but they pushed his title runs WAY too late. when DDP was hot, he wasnt challenging for the WCW title often and when he finally won the WCW title, it was after he turned heel and it happened after the finger poke match....but DDP was/is a huge star to me.

Chris Benoit? Booker T? Scott Steiner? All three of these guys were big stars in pro wrestling. Benoit left a world championship on the table to go to WWE. He was already a star. Booker T and Scott Steiner were put in the main event picture and then kept around WWE (Steiner for less time with that temper but still) and put in high profile roles.

Chris Benoit was pushed WAY WAY too late. he was a star in 1999 and should've been given a world title run, but WCW decided to finally give him the title in 2000 at Souled Out when he was on his way out the door and they had him win via controversy (Sid's foot was under the rope) and that was sometime after he lost the US title to Jeff Jarrett....Chris was getting pushed up, then down. he lost the US title in '99 to Sid after beating DDP a month earlier, then wins the TV title only to lose it a month later. bad booking for a star there. Booker T. was also pushed way too late, he got pushed in WCW's dying days and honestly, they made his world title runs look kinda weak sadly for him. he won the lost the title so fast and Scott Steiner was booked great as champion, in fact, he was the best booked champion in that last year!! he sadly though was booked as a great champion too late. by the time he was having his monster run as champion, WCW was running on empty......but they booked him great. he didnt lose the title 3 weeks after winning it like Booker or Jarrett did that year.

I would argue that Jeff Jarrett was made a star by WCW as well. WWE put him in the mid-card and in some high profile feuds, but WCW made him a world champion. If you don't want to give WCW credit for Jarrett then you must at least give them credit for Sid because he was on his way to being huge in WCW.

i can't give WCW credit for Jeff Jarrett because the character he played in WCW was almost identical to the one he played in WWE except he didnt bash women like he did. in fact, when he debuted in WCW, i hated him because of what he did in WWE (i was a kid at the time, so i thought it to be a bit real)....i do give them credit though for building up Sid, but he wasnt the guy to build up. they should've built up Benoit and not had him lose the US title to Sid.

So, yes, WCW did build stars...the problem was they didnt build them right or they waited too late to push them. Chris Benoit in 1999 should've held the US title from the time he beat DDP till Souled Out where he should've beat a heel Bret Hart....but instead WCW goofed up, Bret got hurt, Russo wanted to give the title to Abbott (what!!??) and then WCW hired someone Benoit didnt like and that went out the window. Booker T. should've won a title shot at Bash at the Beach instead of Hogan and when he won the title, he should NEVER have lost it to Kevin Nash, he should've held it until he lost it to a heel monster Scott Steiner. that would've been better booking of Booker T and Chris Benoit.

 

[relentless1]

I always said that Steiner and Goldberg should have been the ones to move the generations along, they were established enough to work with the guys like Hogan, Sting, Nash, Bret and Flair but they were also new enough on the main event scene to bring up other guys into the main event like Raven, Guerrero, Benoit and Jericho.

Imagine Scott had his first monster World title run in 1999 instead of late 2000? Had he took the belt from Goldberg at Starrcade 1998 and lost it to somebody like Benoit with a huge buildup after a lengthy reign? WCW would still be here today guaranteed.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I agree for the most part. I would go a step further and say they indirectly made guys like Jericho, Mysterio, Benoit, and Guerrero stars based on the perception that those guys were "unfairly" being held back.

I guess the problem is that much in the way WWE continues to go back to Cena and the part timers, fans of WCW at the time felt like WCW would keep reverting back to the NWO and namely Hogan. It further hurt that Vince kept rubbing his "brilliance" in the face of WCW with the success he had with the guys he picked off from WCW prior to their death (e.g. Austin, Foley, Jericho, Show).

So absolutely WCW created stars. They too took WWF guys to another level of stardom. They also did the same with guys they picked off from other places and the homegrown talent. It just wasn't enough in the end and with that and the other problems WCW had, killed them off.

 

[Messiah]

Are you really questioning Eric Bischoff? The man that pretty much ran WCW in the 90's, he knows WCW didn't create many stars and he's right. Goldberg is the only guy that comes to mind, everybody else they signed became stars elsewhere, all the guys that left WCW for WWE became stars in WWE because WCW didn't know how to use them like Eddie, Jericho, Austin, Foley.. Goldberg is the only legit star to come out of WCW.

 

[WWEWrestleFest]

Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, Sting, Lex Luger, Buff Bagwell, Goldberg, DDP.. they were all bigger stars in WCW than they were in WWE. And if you include the pre-Turner NWA days, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Ric Flair, Arn Anderson.. they were all bigger stars in NWA than they were in WWE.

And I know winners write history, and WWE has written history that the only reason the nWo got over is because Razor and Diesel were from the WWE. That may have been true in the start, but by 1997, 1998.. no one cared that they came from WWE. Hall and Nash were bigger than Razor and Diesel.

 

[OYDK]

This is a slippery slope... Can it not be argued that guys like Nash, Luger, and Hall were bigger stars in WCW than they were in WWE? Do people remember Diesel or Kevin Nash? Razor Ramon or Scott Hall? Yes they were big names at the WWE level, but they didn't become full time stars until they went to WCW. When discussing guys like Flair and Sting, it's unfair to give Bischoff the credit for "making them stars" as both were already well on their way to the HOF by the time Bisch took over. I guess Luger can almost be added into that argument as well.

When it comes to homegrown stars in the Bischoff era of WCW, four names jump to mind; Goldberg obviously was one of the most over acts in wrestling history, DDP was also very over and built a legendary career out of his WCW days, Booker T could have been so much bigger had NWO not had their way but he was still a 5 time WCW champ before coming to WWE in 01, and lastly Scott Steiner was turned from tag team wrestler into mega-star by WCW. These were the four that were legitimately made into legendary stars by WCW. Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Mysterio etc. all became legitimate stars in WWE although they were able to build their brands in WCW.

One more guy I think WCW doesn't get enough credit for bringing in is The Big Show. They really ran with The Giant character and turned him into a really big deal based on size alone. He was booked infinitely better in WCW than he was for his first few years in WWE, and I'd argue he was a bigger star in WCW than he was in WWE. I'll give credit to WCW for Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Booker, DDP, Steiner, and Show but I'm not going to act as if mid-card guys like Guerrero and Mysterio were stars in WCW.

 

[FlairFan2003]

I watched the Eric Bischoff interview the yesterday and was frustrated at the idea that WCW never made stars. Bischoff barely even challenges the notion that they didn't make any stars besides Goldberg. I don't know if he is supposed to ignore the fact that they made other stars and just go along with the revisionist history created by the WWE or what... but they made stars!

Obviously... Goldberg. He was every bit as hot (for a shorter period of time) than Austin or the Rock.

DDP? The guy that hosts all the WCW DVDs they put out. Yeah, I'd say that guy was a star. Who teamed with Leno and Malone vs. Hogan and Rodman? DDP. Yeah, he was a star alright. In fact, the reality is that of the current WWE active wrestlers, it can probably only be argued that Cena and Lesnar are bigger stars in terms of the mainstream public knowing who they are. Obviously part timers like HHH, UT, and others would be right there but Page was a big star.

Chris Benoit? Booker T? Scott Steiner? All three of these guys were big stars in pro wrestling. I would argue they were all bigger than Sheamus or Ryback by a hundred miles. Benoit left a world championship on the table to go to WWE. He was already a star. Booker T and Scott Steiner were put in the main event picture and then kept around WWE (Steiner for less time with that temper but still) and put in high profile roles.

Lex Luger? The Giant? Ric Flair? All three of these guys were world champions in WCW before even going to WWE. Who stole stars from who?

Both companies stole stars and both made stars. I almost wish both would have gone out of business and been bought by an independently wealthy person like Mark Cuban who could tell the story in an unbiased way. Makes me sick sometimes listening to the slanted nonsense put out by the WWE.

I would argue that Jeff Jarrett was made a star by WCW as well. WWE put him in the mid-card and in some high profile feuds, but WCW made him a world champion. If you don't want to give WCW credit for Jarrett then you must at least give them credit for Sid because he was on his way to being huge in WCW.

Of course you also have the franchise, Sting. Who WWE just had in a main event at the age of 56.

I'm a huge fan of Mick Foley (this is just as an example) and I was one of the people that turned the channel to watch him win that title but if I had been watching Raw and they had spoiled the ending to Nitro that Page was gonna win the title or even Booker T, I would have changed the channel to watch it.

In addition to all that I will say one last thing here, it's not a wrestling company's job to make stars. The job belongs to the talent. I'm amazed at what Big E, Xavier, and Kofi have done to make the New Day entertaining and a joy to watch. What a stupid gimmick. Do you realize how many people would fall flat on their face with this gimmick? They've made it work because I believe that at least one of them (if not two or all three) have potential star power. They're great.

That's a relevant example because look at Booker T's ascension to the top of the business. The guy was in a tag team called Harlem Heat. There was no gimmick other than what those guys made it. But they also weren't at a gimmick disadvantage... which is what the New Day appeared as (at first) to me. Stars can't be stopped from shining.

When people say "WCW Didn't Make Stars" they mean mid to late 90s Eric Bischoff WCW. Jim Crockett Promotions and the NWA made Sting, Ric Flair, Lex Luger, The Road Warriors, The Steiners, all stars - YEARS before Bischoff took over and the company was no longer the NWA.

Luger had already main evented Great American Bash's & Starrcades and been featured prominently in WWE at WrestleMania & S-Slam before he ever appeared in Bischoff's WCW. You can argue he had his greatest run in 1997 in the company basically keeping them afloat as the #1 Face against the NWO with Flair on injured reserve much of the year and Sting in storyline exile but in no way did Bischoff's WCW make him a star.

The Steiners had already been major players at the end of the Crockett era leading into Ted Turner's purchase and the subsequent name change to WCW years before Bischoff took over, and they had a prominent WWE run as well.

Jarret's two WCW runs during the Bischoff years were moderately successful and built around his "star power" from his two WWE runs during that time.

Sid became a major star in WCW - years before Bischoff and found considerable success in WWE - again BEFORE Bischoff took over WCW. He certainly didn't make him a star.

Flair & The Road Warrior's careers are so well known they don't even have to be discussed. If anything Bischoff nearly ruined Flair's career with his horrible booking -

Certainly Sting was made a star during the Jim Crockett era NWA, years before Bischoff. That star power he had earned from that time was what made his exile storyline and return to face Hollywood Hogan so huge in the first place.

Bischoff's WCW did produce Goldberg who's star power was comparable to everyone listed above. At his height he was as big as Steve Austin so that puts him in some pretty special categories, the places where only true stars of stars like Hogan & Flair live.

DDP was also very popular and clearly hit his stride and reached his heights under Bischoff's WCW. Give Bischoff's reign credit for Big Show also, he was a significant star in wrestling and legit main event talent when he went to WWE in 1999 and at best maintained his career arc there, EZ E "created " that star as well.

On the flip side Chris Benoit was nothing more than the jobber guy in The Four Horsemen and at best a mid carder who put over everyone else. He reached far greater heights in WWE than he ever did in WCW (unlike performers like Flair, the LOD, Sid, etc who were huge stars in both).

Harlem Heat had a nice run as a tag team during a period in which tag team wrestling was pretty much dead. Booker T as a singles star was never perceived as a star in WCW, at best he was the guy they let hold the belt when all the "real" stars were either too old or wouldn't work anymore. In WWE he was given a much bigger push as a legit top tier star, dominated the Smackdown brand for some time, and even had a World Title Match at Mania vs HHH at the height of The Evolution Storyline. WCW didn't make him a star, they gave him a start, WWE made him a star.

I will concede that while The Steiners were stars before Bischoff's WCW Scott's heel turn and joining the NWO storyline did elevate him personally and at his height he was one of the most over heels in the business. Like Goldberg his total career arc was short but it was significant. He was a star coming in (unlike Gooldberg & DDP who were unknowns) but his star power grew under Bischoff's reign.

Over all, WCW/Bischoff produced very few top tier stars and you have to wonder how well they would have done during this time without so many top acts who became household names in wrestling circles thanks to either Crockett or McMahon.....

 

[FromGlasgow]

I don't think WCW gets quite enough credit theres so many huge names like Triple H, Undertaker, Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Sting, Ric Flair, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Bill Goldberg, The Big Show, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio, Scott Steiner, Booker T, Dallas Page, William Regal, Vader, Paul Heyman, Jim Ross, Eric Bischoff and countless others just off the top of my head who were all in WCW before the WWE, They may not all have been household names during their first WCW career but I as a fan all the way over in the UK had still heard of them all and knew who each one of them was from WCW when they first showed up in the WWE and each technically got their first mainstream break in WCW.
If WCW had never existed I believe wrestling would be a lot different today.

 

[OYDK]

I don't think WCW gets quite enough credit theres so many huge names like Triple H, Undertaker, Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Sting, Ric Flair, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Bill Goldberg, The Big Show, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio, Scott Steiner, Booker T, Dallas Page, William Regal, Vader, Paul Heyman, Jim Ross, Eric Bischoff and countless others just off the top of my head who were all in WCW before the WWE...

Which kind of shows you why WCW doesn't deserve credit for making homegrown stars. You just said it; they had legends like HHH, Stone Cold, Taker, Foley, etc. as young studs before WWF had them and what did they do with them? Absolutely nothing. Admittedly Austin did become a US, TV, and Tag Champ in WCW but considering what he turned out to be, I'd say he was grossly misused in his 4 years in WCW. Within 2 years in WWF he was already one of the biggest names of all time. HHH was jobbing to Alex Wright... yes I said Alex Wright, while Taker's greatest accomplishment in WCW is getting pinned by Luger. Foley could have been huge as Cactus Jack had WCW decided to keep him around, but of course, they didn't see much in him.

As for others like Jericho, Benoit, Mysterio, and Guerrero, they were all mid-carders in WCW, Benoit albeit a glorified one. All the others you named, other than the 5 or 6 that have already been mentioned, either became stars before the Bischoff era or they were stupidly let go for one reason or another.

But yes you're right. WCW in its entire history has created stars such as Vader, Flair, Luger, Sting, Steiners, etc. but not the WCW under Bischoff.

 

[slikrik84]

OYDK, my argument is not Bischoff making stars, it's WCW making stars. Bischoff was obviously a huge part of WCW, but he did not control the company the entire time.

There are really two kinds of stars in this business. Mainstream stars (Andre, Hogan, Savage, Piper, Flair, Austin, Rock, Goldberg, Sting, Undertaker, etc.)

Then there are wrestling stars (Luger, Sid, HHH, Mankind, DDP, Jarrett, Farooq, etc.). There are many more wrestling stars than there are mainstream stars. The thing is, people talk like HHH is a mainstream star. He's not. I like him, I think he's great. But if I bring up his name to a guy that's never watched wrestling or hasn't watched in 25 years... they won't know who he is. They'll know who all the guys I listed in the top area are. WWE hasn't made a star like that since The Rock. Brock Lesnar is the closest thing, but without UFC that would not be the case.

The big reason that you had stars in the 80s and 90s like you did was because of SNME on NBC. Then of course you had the Monday Night Wars and two of the biggest cable networks available at the time (TNT and USA) both have wrestling on... so it helped the sport. Now all you have is Raw... and hundreds more channels, plus streaming services.

I just think this idea that WWE is the only one that created stars is ridiculous. Look at how many stars weren't created in the 90s because of the WWF milking the Hogan cow for everything it was worth (who could blame them?).

WCW was very instrumental (as well as NWA Crockett) in making many of the biggest stars of that era though and the idea that it was so one sided just drives me nuts.

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

WCW basically made two new megastars, Goldberg and Diamond Dallas Page. Booker T and Soctt Steiner only became stars by proxy. Once all the legitimate big names were pretty much out of the way these guys were forced to step into main event roles. But DDP and Goldberg were established when WCW was at it's peak in terms of star power. Goldberg obviously had his streak and he beat the greatest wrestler of all time, Hulk Hogan, to win his first World Title on live TV in a sold out stadium. DDP was in a huge feud with the NWO, who were the hottest heels maybe ever.

So yes, WCW put some new guys over, but not to the same degree as the WWF at that time. Austin, Rock, Foley and later Triple H all were bonafide main event stars that basically came from nothing (Foley you could argue simly because most of what got him over as a main eventer were ideas taken from his ECW days). It should also be noted that there was greater pressure on the WWF to elevate wrestlers because of the mass exodus from their company. Also, while it's fair to say that WCW mismanaged some up-and-coming talent, they mismanaged their established names every bit as much. Bret Hart stands out in particular as a completely squandered opportunity.

It's also ridiculous to suggest that WCW is somehow the "talent stelaing company" and WWE is the "talent making company", and this is obviously just a product of bullshit WWE talking points. The entire WWE was founded on stolen talent. One stolen talent in particular, Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan was entirely formed in Verne Gagne's AWA and was peaking in that territory when Vince stole him away. Even the phrase Hulkamania did not originate in the WWE. Hogan's entire babyface personna was created before he ever stepped foot into a WWE ring. The WWE was simply able to capitalize on it more effectively and ride the wave. Also names like Sting, Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes and the Road Warriors, some of the absolute best ever, were entirely made elsewhere.

 

[Goldie]

Maybe its just the post-Hogan era in WCW where they struggled to make new stars.
Flair, Sting, Luger etc. were all NWA made and stars before Hogan and his ex-WWF entourage packed out the main event scene in the mid-late 90s.

Goldberg debuted in 1997 and became a huge star in 1998... losing a bit of momentum in 1999. Was Goldberg the only WCW 'made star' born in the Monday Night wars era?
To an extent DDP became a star... not one of the main 3 or 4 franchise talents... but he worked hard and cracked the main event scene and won 3 world titles.
Paul 'the Giant' Wight too... made a quick impact in 1995 and won the world title in one of his first few matches.

However there is no doubt that at any given time... the top handful of stars in WCW during the Monday Night war period were either stars who had been huge names in the WWF a few years previosuly: Hogan, Savage, Bret, Nash, Hall, Piper (Yes Piper/Nash/Hall had wrestled for NWA/WCW before... but had gone onto bigger stardom in the WWF).... or were long time ageing NWA stars Flair, Sting, Luger.

By 2000 a lot of the roster were depleted for cost cutting reasons... would Jarrett, Booker T and even Steiner have risen to the top if the likes of Hogan, Savage & Hart were still active? I'm not sure whether to count them.

 

[slikrik84]

WCW totally revitalized Hogan, Savage, and Piper. To turn Hogan heel like they did, it was almost creating a new character. In addition, Savage was put behind a broadcast table in WWF and at least from what I've read, was told his days in the big matches were over. Piper definitely wasn't misused in my mind and the Hogan vs. Piper rehash worked pretty well for them at the time.

When it comes to Bret Hart I'll put it to you like this... I really think that he and Shawn Michaels are great wrestlers, two of the best hands down for pure wrestling fans. However, neither is a star. WCW getting Bret Hart would be like the titanic is sinking and another ship comes by and saves the captain of the titanic. Why would you do that? Bret Hart was never a star. I liked him. I love to watch his old matches. But he was pretty much the default option after the rest of the 80s/90s stars were caught up in the steroid scandal as the next guy down the list that they could advance up.

I think if things could have progressed naturally in the WWF without all of that turmoil that he probably ends up being an intercontinental champion at best and then falls back down the ladder. Look at the WWF ratings with him and then look at the WCW ratings with him... he was not a star.

WCW also pretty much made a new character out of Sting. I think it can be argued that they created a star with him because of how different he was from the "surfer" Sting (as they say now).

 

[Just Do It]

WCW totally revitalized Hogan, Savage, and Piper.

Hogan, certainly with the heel turn. But no way Piper or Savage. Piper did his worst mic work in WCW, and was dire in the ring for his whole tenure. Savage had a great 97, but he wasn't doing anything too different from his previous heel work, and 1998 onwards wasn't very pretty.

 

[New Hot Fed]

WCW indeed made stars:
Flair (if we count NWA as part of WCW), Sting, DDP, Scott Steiner, Goldberg, Giant, Booker T, Vader, Muta.

To this day i think the major mistake was to keep Nash & Hall under contracts in 99-01.
After nWo angle was done, these 2 done nothing good for WCW, their matches always was poor, many young talents were leaving because of Nash's politics, these 2 ended Goldberg's streak, because the guy was more popular.

Some will say WWF will take them back, but whould they really, the whole lockerroom hated The Kliq and will sure protest against Kliq rise again and take their spots

Hey Nash was still part of one of my favorite match of 1999: Nash vs Goldberg, Starrcade 1999.

As far as stars, I still say that Bagwell was one. He was a star for WCW viewers. He and Steiners were one of the most over acts in WCW. These two together were popular as Hell. And when the nWo decided to "cut the fat" so to speak, their elite group was Hogan, Hall, Nash, Steiner and Buff.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Try telling that to Cesaro. WWE's doing everything it can to stop that star from shining. I agree with the rest of your post, though.

Like I said in the Cesaro thread on the WWE section.. he is in the same boat as the first star WCW "created" or rather "let shine at WWE's expense"... Rick Rude.

It's not up for debate that WCW "created" Rude, they didn't... he was the finished article and ready for a WWF title run in 1990, but Hogan/Warrior/Vince were not going to give him it. Hogan flat out refused to work him while Warrior was "I've already jobbed a title to him". Rude balked at being relegated to a feud with Bossman over his mother and made the leap.

WCW's first experience of really taking someone and making them something was Rude... while the "Halloween Phantom" was cheesy and spoiled by the fact there was no real surprise in who it was, what came after was nearly 3 years of perfect building, booking and letting Rude shine, yet at no time was he "The top man" but he was one of them...

The US title run he had and feud with guys like Sting, Rhodes and Steamboat made that belt worth more at times than the WWF title. The Dangerous Alliance being built around Rude was also a perfect way to build him, he had Heyman, he had Madusa, he had young guns like Steve Austin backing him up and wily vets like Eaton, Arn and even Zybysko... it made Rude seem of a level above everyone, even if he never actually got the proper WCW title. When it came time to move him on a bit, he got the old NWA title and did great work with Sting, Masa Chono and Sting... Rude was a guy who could sell a WCW show anywhere and make it seem legit.

They tried to replicate that push with Jake, Bossman, Hogan and Randy Savage and couldn't make it work the way Rude did. By the time Hogan arrived, Rude was primed to jump BACK to WWF and feud with Bret, Shawn, Diesel and the like over the title... he'd have got it this time until he got hurt and it was ruined.

But the template was there, they knew how to build someone and it wasn't pushing them to the moon... Goldberg, DDP, Benoit, Booker all benefitted from similar pushes to Rude, being given time, a mid-card belt that was booked to be the most exciting on the card and the opponents and backing to seem big deals. Benoit got to be a Horseman for example... DDP got to work with the celebs when they came in and Booker was given the chance to have proper feuds for the TV title rather than random defences.

Then...once guys started defecting... they lost it... or rather, they missed out on one too many sure fire things. Austin was borderline criminal, but you can see how it happened. Pillman was outright ridiculous as he was lightning in a bottle when the Loose Cannon first popped, but they blew it... then Jericho, Eddie...

For a spell WCW was better at it but then got lazy and just used the ex WWF guys and the NWO as a shortcut. At the same time WWE was taking their cast offs and almost to a man making them better... Mankind was quickly better than Cactus had been in WCW, Austin, well we know about him, Ron Simmons actually became a better asset than he was with the WCW World title and if you'd told Dustin 20 years ago (yes it's that long) as he was preparing to debut as Goldust that two decades on the character would not only still be there but more over than ever...he'd have called you a liar...

Once the guys who they missed had all jumped, it became pointless... the only real talent to emerge from that post Radicalz era push in WCW was Shane Helms and he was a midcarder for most of his life in WWE, but his win over the Rock does put him higher than any of the others.

 

[LBGetBack]

Depends what you consider a star. Jarrett, Booker and Steiner were WCW stars when the promotion was a crumbling, nonsensical mess. DDP, Luger and, to a lesser extent, Goldberg were only stars in WCW. Most would consider them WWE flops.

But wrestling extends beyond WWE so you can't really say that certain guys in WCW weren't stars. There's no denying that there should be a bigger list and if they'd tried to create more, instead of relying on the old guard, then that promotion wouldn't have slumped so quickly.

Those guys being "flops" in the WWE....is WWE's fault! That doesn't speak badly of WCW. They made those stars, and WWE ruined them through poor booking!

Forcing Lex Luger first into the "Narcissist" gimmick, and then abruptly trying to make him the new Hulk Hogan All American hero.....so ridiculous. Why not just let him be Lex Luger? He was already an established star in wrestling.

The DDP stalker angle....ridiculous. He was never booked strong in the WWE.

Goldberg was hot in the WWE until they made the idiotic decision to put HHH over him with the same old, same old.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Steiner was barely mobile by the time he got to the WWF as a singles... the guy had to be in a hot shower for over an hour to do a match and had permanent dropfoot... not your main event guy. And that's before you take into account that he TURNED DOWN a push in 94 to be a heel and go against Bret and Nash etc cos they didn't want Rick... and both left... He was lucky to EVER be rehired.