Ty Burna's All Hip Hop Thread

[Ty Burna]

Alright, I promised I would work on this, and here is the official beginning of the All Hip Hop Thread. This thread is to discuss all topics related to hip hop music, any artists, any albums you would like to review, or just discussing anything pertaining hip hop.

My first topic I will touch on, is the decay of the state of Hip Hop. Now whether or not you like it, hip hop has been decaying now for the last few years, with weak acts that lean more towards pop that the actual hip hop we have all known and love. I believe you can attribute this decay to not only the artists that are the head of this transition from gritty raw hip hop, to the kiddie hip-pop that is prevalent today, but also to the record companies these artists are signed to. The reason I partially blame the record companies, is that they go out actively searching for the next club hit, what the mainstream music lover's want and listen to. Is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, in a money making sense it is the perfect plan. However, in doing so the record companies completely over look any hip hop artists that have any real skill on the mic. This is why you see many southern hip hop artists (most notably, H-Town rappers, Three 6 Mafia etc.) creating their own record labels and producing mixtapes left and right in order to get their own style out to the public. This allows them to make albums the way they want, instead of the record companies taking creative control away from the artists. Record companies taking creative control of an album is a music industry wide problem, and an issue for another time however. In the mean time, a lot of these hip-pop artists that are coming out, actually make no money as the record companies take a large percentage of it. Meanwhile H-town rappers releasing mixtapes and their own albums have far more money, but selling less albums than the mainstream artists.

I believe we have reached a point where hip hop has reached a crossroad. On one hand we have a plethora of underground artists that are releasing great music and really holding the true essence of hip hop close to them. On the other side of the equation, we have artists releasing albums and content that lack lyrical quality, and are glorified pop songs hiding in a hip hop track. It is at this critical impasse that will determine whether hip hop fans from all around will dismiss and despise these hip-pop artists, and the true hip hop will come back to it's former glory days, or will they continue to support the club hit makers, and further driving the quality artists deeper into the underground. The club hits are fine, but when many of these artists are banking careers on just making club hits, eventually they will die out after hearing the same song in a different flavor 10 different times. In my opinion, the best possible outcome would be to have a very strong mix of both sides, have your gritty raw artists making strong lyrical music, and your club hit makers. I think hip hop in general would benefit greatly from this. Even now you have some artists that are gifted lyrically and making great music in the mainstream. You look at Mims for instance, he went back to the roots of hip hop, before the gangsta rap became popular, and making feel good music that brings a smile to your face. Unfortunately he is an exception to the mainstream hip hop.

Now regarding underground hip hop, against there is a huge amount coming out, and it makes this fan of hip hop smile. Many underground artists are becoming very popular, without any major mainstream exposure. You have artists like Tech N9ne, Atmosphere, Murs, Trae, Z-Ro, 8ball and MJG, Bun B, etc. all reaching a level that most underground artists could only dream of reaching. With this in mind, maybe a new radical idea should be brought up. Maybe it is time for real hip hop to go back to the underground, should we let it go back to the streets from where it was once born? I think this is a great discussion point that we should touch on.

So now I pose the following questions to you: Would it be best to let what many hip hop fans consider "real" hip hop fall to the wayside and go to the underground? Would it benefit from allowing this hip pop dominate the scene until eventually the fad dies out and the underground, which would be thriving, able to rise once more in a new era of hip hop?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I think hip hop should go back to the underground. I have and will never understand the Soulja Boy fandom and it seems like they put out a stupid new dance song every week. Great rappers like Bun B and Chamillionaire are overlooked sometimes in the hip hop industry, but they have great lyrics that have deep meaning behind them. Their record sales don't reflect that, but I think record sales are a horrible indicator of how great a rapper you are.

I remember during the Soulja Boy/Ice T feud, David Banner said that Ice T should help him out. I agree with this statement from the standpoint that if you are a veteran like Ice is and you don't like what S.B. is putting out, help him do better instead of criticizing him. It was still disrespectful the way he dissed Ice T though because Soulja Boy will never become a tenth of what he is.

Most of the hip hop industry's elder statesmen have fallen off or are still trying to hang on. I was never that big a fan of Jay-Z and I never saw Diddy as a rapper, just a mogul. Lil Wayne's early stuff was great and now he seems to be grasping at straws but maybe that is because he has put out so many albums and mixtapes, he is running out of material. Autotune and vocoder has also ruined the industry slowly. I will give T-Pain a pass for using it since I think he's actually decent but Kanye West and Ron Brown among others shouldn't never use it. West's last album was horrible and I've listened to "Arab Money" a hundred times and I still don't know a word of it.

Hip-hop is deteriorating and as long as you have the Soulja Boy's and the GS Boys of the world, it will continue to do so. If everybody and their mother likes the songs and they get positive feedback, they will continue to create shitty music and the real hip-hop artists would be lucky to get a song on BET 106 & Park's Top Ten.

 

[FromTheSouth]

The problem with rap today is that everyone wants to get played in the club. No talent hacks like 50 cent get credit for being great rappers when all they talk about is going to the club with a good beat behind them. Soulja Boy gets played in the club.

No one on the underground is worried about the club. They want to sell in the hood. Actually, they just want to get bumped in the hood. That's the difference. The underground rap today is still real stories about real people. Z-Ro raps about jail because he's been to jail. Soulja boy raps about dancing and kissing through the phone because he really is a bitch.

Besides the club, there are other factors in the state of rap. First of all, Kanye West is the most over rated piece of shit in the industry. His lyrics are terrible. I'm white, his target audience, and I don't care about what he is saying. The beats are sick, but if you put Z-Ro or Trae on those beats, you get magic.

Next, enough with the voice effects. If rappers stopped being Peter Frampton, maybe they would make some good music.

Finally, hip-hop is terrible. I guess that is the all encompassing title for rap, r&b, and this hybrid crap from T-Pain. Rappers should stop trying to be involved with these talentless *****.

The best solution is to listen to the underground. Grab some Z-Ro. Go get the "Restless" album, from Trae. Jam some Tech9yne. These are rappers. They still market to the hood.


And Ty, just as a note....

Releasing independent is a good idea for one other reason than you mentioned. When you out out an album mainstream, you get a bonus and less than a dollar per album sold. Underground, some of these guys get $6 or $7 per album sold. I would rather sell half a million independent than two million main stream.

 

[Ty Burna]

See I"m from North Dakota, so I don't know how much weight my opinion on hip hop actually carries because of my location. But I have been a fan for far over 10 years. So to see some others that have come up in areas where hip hop is prevalent, and agree with me makes me feel a whole lot better about putting my thoughts out.

Now LJL brought up a very good point about the elder statesmen of hip hop. I wanted to touch on this a little bit. Ice T obviously wants to protect the old guard of hip hop, and for this I commend him. However, a lot of elder statesmen such as Dr. Dre, Diddy (even if he is a shit rapper, he did have quite an influence on bringing up young artists), and Jay-Z have done nothing but promote this hip pop that is coming out now. Dr. Dre I have mad respect for, just because he was part of the innovative group NWA, but how much does he use that clout as a beginner of gangsta rap to influence rappers into making genuine hip hop? Little to none, and it's sad to see in all honesty. If Eazy were still around you know he'd be promoting the fuck out of any artists that keep it hard and don't make club songs. Another example is Snoop Dogg. Now I understand how he's damn near in his 40's and all that, and his music reflects a more laid back happy lifestyle. But he used to bring that G-Funk style that we all loved. Nowadays he's sitting there making nothing but club hits, and his lyrical ability has been compromised in the process.

This makes me wonder how long we have been on this slide to where hip hop is now. Is it just a recent trend? Or have we been slowly inching towards this kind of "hip hop" that is popular since Biggie and 2pac's death? Obviously hip hop slid into a bit of a slump after Biggie and 2pac died, but we still had Nas, DMX, and other rappers that brought a revival to where we were before Biggie and 2pac's deaths. To me, the two biggest signs of hip hop sliding down into a hip pop trend is when Nelly came out, and Ja Rule got big. Ja Rule before he got big, was actually a very solid rapper and made good music. But it seems to me sold out and started making his poppy songs with Ashanti and all that. Nelly was just a club hit maker, and when he actually comes out with a hit, it's a club hit all over again.

Ice-T had every right to attack Soulja Boy, and I don't think it was so much an attack on Soulja Boy, but on the poor state of hip hop in general. Soulja Boy was just the catalyst and really the biggest sign of hip hop losing it's roots. But the biggest problem is, these new cats getting into the game have no respect for the OG's that have been in the game for so long. For example. Soulja Boy attacking Ice-T on his age. To sum up Ice-T's feelings, well here is a quote from him: "If any war (is going to start), it's gonna be good hip-hop versus whack hip-hop, you understand what I'm saying? And if there has to be a war on that battlefield, I'm proud to be the general". I wholeheartedly back Ice-T, and other artists like GZA and Method Man have also taken this same stance. At the same time, I do have to give respect to Tech N9ne on his opinion on the situation, as he seems the most level headed. Tech went on record and said he supports Soulja Boy, but mostly because he sees it as a positive that young people are coming up and making money through music, doing something positive with their lives. This I can agree with, but as a hip hop fan, who grew up on Biggie, 2pac, Eazy E, DMX, and Bone Thugs-n-Harmony, it feels like these new artists are attacking the core of my favorite music.

In the end though, us true hip hop fans will know who the realest is, and we'll know who the fakes are. While everyone else will be attempting to dance to Lil Wayne and Soulja Boy club songs, we'll be C walking like WC just walked in, or if you prefer, the B walk. I don't discriminate. We'll have 2pac, Z-Ro, UGK, Bone Thugs-n-Harmony in my case, and Tech N9ne blasting at full volume out our cars while we cruise down the street. Hip Hop will survive, even if we have to go underground for awhile.

 

[Pimpin]

Alright. I have been waiting to see an all hip-hop thread. I will be posting in here alot by the way.

Now of course Ice-T wants to protect the old guard of hip-hop cause that shit (unlike today's mainstream pussy shit) is how hip-hop is supposed to be. In all honesty I would love to see a battle with old school hip-hop & the pussy rappers of today who take a shit on the legacies of 2Pac, Biggie, Ice Cube & everyboday else that was prominent back in the day cause all of us true hip-hop know that true hip-hop would crush today's shit like it was an apetizer.

I don't truly know why Jay-Z & Punk Daddy are promoting the fuck out of today's shit, but I think I have a good reason as to why Dre is promoting the fuck out of today's shit. It was about not that long after Biggie's death that Dre discovered one of his greatest protege's in Eminem which was in what you say is the start of hip-hop slowly sliding into a slump that well has lead main stream hip-hop into the shit that it is in today. I think Dre wants to mold an artist from today's hip-hop & lead him to the big time & that's why I think he is promoting the fuck out of today's hip-hop.

I think that the reason why hip-hop is in this state is that there aren't really many mainstream fans that truly appreciate the art of hip-hop & would rather have all the club shit than real rappers like 2Pac, Biggie, Ice Cube & NWA. All I know is that I won't be listening to the rappers that are in the main stream(except for maybe 2 or 3 of them, but idk). No instead I will have real shit like 2Pac, Eazy-E, Ice Cube, UGK, Trae, Z-Ro, Chamillionaire, Tech N9ne & his Strange Music artists just blasting at maximum volume when i'm cruisin down the street & I am proud to say that I am a fan of true hip-hop.

 

[Pimpin]

As to add onto my post voicing my opinion on today's version of hip-hop. I would like to add the examples of who has exactly sold out as Ty already mentioned two really great examples in Ja Rule & Nelly. Also the rappers I mention below are not in exact order.

Bitch Rapper #1: Baby Bash- For those of you who don't really know his previous history, he was a protege of the great South Park Mexican & he was known as Baby Beesh. Now when he was Baby Beesh, he combined West Coast hip-hop beats with a little bit of a southern flow to it & that's what I liked about him. Well once he left SPM's record label Dope House Records, that's when he started to sell out by making all these damn soft songs & club hits like Cyclone, I'm Back, Obsession & Suga Suga. Now all he does is just make shitty club hits that cause little 14-15 year old girls to splatter in their pants & screech very loudly.

Bitch Rapper #2: Lil Wayne- Yes I had to put him in here. I think his shit from before the Carter II was great as it didn't sound like complete crap like his club hits do. I feel like he is taking a major shit on the legacies of those that paved the way for him by saying that he's the "Best Rapper Alive". Well I know deep down that he wouldn't survive a day in hip-hop if 2Pac, Biggie, Eazy-E, Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, Ice-T & all the hip-hop artists from back in the day were dominating hip-hop today.

Bitch Rapper #3: Soulja Boy- I know From The South has mentioned him in this thread & is correct on everything that he said about Soulja Boy, but I don't get why the hell he wouldn't let Ice-T help him get better. I mean it's not like Soulja Boy will ever get better on his own unless he's gonna get raped in the ass in prison. I think he's a bigger definition of why hip-hop today has become more popish & auto tune friendly. I mean who really wants to hear a song about kissing thru the phone when you can just kiss a real life girl in person.

In all honesty. I think Ty brought up a really good point earlier in this thread that I forgot to voice my opinion on. I think hip-hop should just go back to the underground & just basically lay low there until this current pop shit fades out cause in reality today's version of hip-hop is only really just a damn fad & all fads get put out to pasture & die.

 

[Big Sexy]

The reason hip hop is in the state it's in is because rappers are taking the easy way out. A lot of the mainstream guys have figured out that they don't really need to show any lyrical ability. They can make an entire CD of club songs with absolutely no structure and make millions of dollars. Over the last few years it gotten progressively worse. A big reason that the young rappers have this mind state of just making mainstream songs is because that's all that gets played on the radio and T.V. There's no more focus on making quality songs.

The guys that are usually considered the best rappers are the guys that can make a few hit songs to get people to buy the CD, but then the rest of the CD is filled with songs that actually have meaning and show off their lyrical ability. That is what is lacking in today's hip hop. Guys like Eminem, Nas, Jay Z, Red and Meth, and Busta Rhymes aren't putting out albums with the consistency that they used to, and they are starting to be overshadowed by the shit artists like Flo Rida, Soulja Boy, and even Lil Wayne. The last time hip hop was really at the top of its game was from the mid 90's to early 2000's. During that time period you had Pac and BIG in the primes of their careers. The veterans now like Eminem, Nas, Jay Z, DMX, Wu-Tang Clan, and Busta Rhymes were just starting and they were putting out the best music of their careers.

Right now all of the best hip hop artists are in the underground scene. Guys like Royce Da 5'9, Crooked I, Tech N9ne, and Cassidy. A lot of these guys have actually tasted some mainstream success. Royce Da 5'9 before his beef with Eminem was going to sign with Dre and Aftermath. Crooked I was supposed to be the next big thing on Death Row until that label fell apart. Cassidy has actually put out a gold album, but has now chosen to stay away from the major labels and sign with an independent one. These are the guys that give hip hop hope and these are the guys that the fans need to be listening to. I would listen to a CD from guys like Slaughterhouse over guys like Lil Wayne any day of the week. True hip hop fans are supporting these underground guys, but until the mainstream fan decides to support real hip hop then nothing is going to change.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

For those trying to rid them selves of bitch raps, studio lyrics, and canned corn beats, may I introduce you to underground rapper, from the San Francisco, Andre Nickatina.

If you guys are serious about your rap music, I urge you to download some Nickatina, his beats are amazing, and as good as his beats are, his lyrics are original, and his overall product, in my opinion, is the BEST rap artist going today!!

here are a few songs that will give you a taste about what he's about

Train with no love
Scotty 15
Ayo for Yayo
Jungle
Yeah
Killa whale
2 B U

I agree with what everyone had to say about the state of rap these days, and thought I would bring out some of the positive in today's rap, I would love to know some of the underground rap that everyone else is listing to!

 

[Pimpin]

I would love to know some of the underground rap that everyone else is listing to!

I will check out Nickatina when I get the chance.

Anyways as for some underground rappers. Here's a few that you should download.

Tech N9ne- His beats are top notch, his delivery is amazing & he is one of the fastest rappers out there. Everything he releases is just amazing. I guarantee that you will become a Tech N9ne fan once you listen to his music.

Royce Da 5"9- You should ldownload his diss tracks like Malcom X, his version of Shit On You & you should download his album Death Is Certain as that album is a classic.

Scarface- Scarface brings that famous H-Town sound into his music & all of his material are in my opinion classics. Not that many people can lyrically compete with him.

Obie Trice- If you listen to some of his hooks on some Eminem songs, then you will know that his delivery is phenominal. The songs I would check out are Lay Down, Cry Now, Shit Hits The Fan & Pistol Pistol(Remix) on The Re-Up album that Eminem & his crew released a few years back. Those songs I mentioned are great songs in my opinion.

Also some other notable rappers that you should check out are 8Ball & MJG, Bun B, Pimp C, Chamillionaire, Slim Thug, Krizz Kaliko & Kutt Calhoun & I believe that you will like all the rappers that I mentioned once you listen to their songs.

 

[Big Sexy]

Royce Da 5'9- Download his last mixtape Bar Exam 2. It's one of the best mixtapes I've ever heard. Most of the beats he uses are from Tha Carter 3 and he does much better with them then Weezy did.

Crooked I- Listen to the song "If You Ever Hear Me" that's probably his best song. Also he's featured on Tech N9ne's Sickology 101 song along with Chino XL.

Cassidy- His last mixtape Apply Pressure was very good. "They Shook" and "Body Bags" ft Cory Gunz are probably the best songs from the mixtape.

Slaughterhouse- This a group with Royce, Crooked I, Joe Budden, and Joell Ortiz. the best songs they've put out are "Move On" and "Wack MC's."

 

[Ty Burna]

Well let me jump on this train here and promote some underground artists I like:

Prozak: A member of the Strange Music family, he's got a darker sinister style but he's very good and creating imagery with his lyrics. He's known as the Hitchcock of Hip Hop, and I just started listening to him as of last night actually.

Ill Bill: I think many have heard of him, and if you get his album The Hour of Reprisal, if you haven't heard of him, you'll be very surprised at how well this cat can spit on the mic. He brings a more east coast style and his storytelling is top notch.

Immortal Technique: Now Immortal may not be for everyone, I warn you now. The reason for this is because his lyrics and songs are based on a lot of political activism and socialism. However if you don't like those songs, he still has some amazing stories that he tells in his rhymes and he is an artists that thrives in the underground.

Heltah Skeltah: This duo of Sean Price aka Ruck and Rock bring some of that old gangsta style back to hip hop. If you like how Eminem disses on celebrities and what not, these two take it to a whole new level when aiming rhymes at artists in the industry. Oh and they also diss on Eminem for a minute as well. I like their style and they get you fired up and ready for murder.

 

[Big Sexy]

One more thing I want to say on the state of hip hop. I think that it should be mandatory for every rapper that gets signed to a label to have to listen to old school hip hop. I really don't think any of these young rappers coming out have ever listened to Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Run DMC, KRS-One, or Slick Rick and Doug E Fresh.

If these young rappers need to work on their wordplay, listen to Lyrics of Fury by Rakim. You want to learn how to battle, listen to Raw by Big Daddy Kane. Want to make a political or philosophical song, listen to My Philosophy by KRS-One. You want to become more aggressive with your style, listen to Kings of Rock or My Adidas by Run DMC. You need help with your story telling, put on The Show or La Di Da Di by Slick Rick with Doug E Fresh beatboxing.

Rappers need to know their history and they need to take lessons from some of the greatest of all time.

 

[HHHDiedForOurSins]

I have to agree with the overall feeling in this thread that the hip hop on radio/tv nowadays is garbage, there's still the odd mainstream artist I can listen to (Nas, Game, a couple others) but for the most part they all put out the same lame pop style songs, the underground is where it's at, guys like Joe Budden, Skyzoo, Elzhi, Crooked I, Black Milk, Immortal Technique, Saigon and tons of others are still putting out quality music consistently.

I also hate the fact that there are no real hip hop groups anymore, Gang Starr (My favorite rapper/producer duo ever), Wu-Tang, NWA, ATCQ, Mobb Deep, Public Enemy etc were all great, what do we have now? G-Unit?

I really hope the dominance of the ringtone rap that's popular today doesn't last much longer, surely there's only so long people will continue to listen to the same song with a slightly different beat, which is what they are to me, I swear they all sound exactly the same.

Either way, there's still a lot of good hip hop out there, but it'd be nice to see some of it get some recognition on a somewhat mainstream level.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

The Industry nowdays has become oversaturated with its integration in the pop industry, as LJL stated once before that Hip hop mainstays just want stuff that can get played in clubs and be that big hit in hops that their album will do the same numbers as Fifty cent (Diamond 10 times platinum and plus) the problem with this is that record execs are getting too much control over the material and artists are not allowd to be free anymore and actually put together a concious album.

The artists that do have that control end up only selling smaller units because of the fact that they have little to no promotion with the labels they work with, that
played with the fact that artists are releasing albums every year now instead of actually releasing material every five years so the fans are actually wa
nting to buy your material is making sales slump, just look at fifty for another example he was making big sales and with each year and each release his sales slowly tumbled declining to selling less then a million copies with his last album (Curtis) and may even sell less with his new album which has been delayed numerous times.

In order for hip hop to get back to its roots artists need to actually be allowed to express themselves with material that fans are actually wanting to buy, the reason why its so big these days is because of the fact that you have a cross over audience from pop, if the hip hop industry does go back to its roots it may lose the audience that a
re actually buying the albums so in a sense this scenario is in a catch twenty two, there is no quick fix when it comes to this and we may have to let the whole genre self distruct in order to allow it to go back to the essence of actual lyrical word play rather then rims, tims and gold chains, tough talking chain rocking rappers who believe in fake street cred rather then actually being concious about their surroundings

 

[Rizza]

Heltah Skeltah: This duo of Sean Price aka Ruck and Rock bring some of that old gangsta style back to hip hop. If you like how Eminem disses on celebrities and what not, these two take it to a whole new level when aiming rhymes at artists in the industry. Oh and they also diss on Eminem for a minute as well. I like their style and they get you fired up and ready for murder.

Its Great to see another fan of Heltah Skeltah, it sucks that they get little to no exposure because I think their one of the best duo's alive right now, and with their diss rhymes, clever metaphors, catchy beats (Well at least in D.I.R.T., Nocturnal and Magnum Force had a more gritty basement-made sound to it) and just the overall quality of the rhymes could really get a large following. I know sometimes they might not have the best storytelling or be a crazy lyricist like Slug from Atmosphere but for the Gangsta rap genre IMO the are some of the best song writers out there.

As far as todays commercial hip-hop goes i'l just be echoing the masses when I say that it is garbage. It sickens me that everyone who has been brainwashed by awful radio stations, and the and mainstream music videos has the mentality that if it isn't a club banger then it isn't shit. Literally, the other day I was playing GZA's absolutely amazing album Liquid Swords and a guest(who is all about ringtone rap) that I had over proceeded to tell the the song I was listening to was awful(the song was 4th Chamber) and when I ask for the explanation it was simply "it didn't bump enough" to say the least I was digusted, but I asked him if the lyrics meant anything in a rap song and he gave me some bullshit on how they did a little bit,but the beat ultimately was what was more important. Anyways what I guess im trying to say is that hip hop is in a terrible way and its not going to get better until people realize that the beat is not what the feature attraction is , the lyrics are, and rap will have to fall to the bottom in order to get back up.

Some of the albums im listening to currently are

Human the Death Dance (Sage Francis) Sage Francis definitely isn't for everybody seeing how he is borderline poetry but anybody that wants to be impressed on how well a man can string words together should check him out.

Uncontrolled Substance (Inspectah Deck)
One of the less appreciate members of Wu Tang but IMO he's one of the best and maybe only surpassed by GZA on overall song writing.

Da Incredible Rap Team (Heltah Skeltah)
I pretty much can't get enough of this album and it was a great way to come back after the upsetting album that was Magnum Force,I really can't think anyone to compare them to but I suggest the album Nocturnal if you want some of the best Heltah.

 

[Pimpin]

I'm gonna add another contribution to this thread as i'm gonna promote an underground hip-hop group that I like.

Dead Prez- Dead Prez consists of stic.man & M-1 & they like Immortal Technique rap about politics, but they also rap about the prison systems, religion, education, the media & many many more topics. They're rap style is reminiscent of rap groups Public Enemy due to their political raps & N.W.A. due to how they don't really give a shit.

For further proof on what I just listed. I would buy or download their debut album Let's Get's Free as they rap about all the subjects I listed below & it's the first politically group since Public Enemy. I know you will become a fan of their's just like I am by listening to some of their material.

 

[Razor Blade Dream]

As far as todays commercial hip-hop goes i'l just be echoing the masses when I say that it is garbage. It sickens me that everyone who has been brainwashed by awful radio stations, and the and mainstream music videos has the mentality that if it isn't a club banger then it isn't shit. Literally, the other day I was playing GZA's absolutely amazing album Liquid Swords and a guest(who is all about ringtone rap) that I had over proceeded to tell the the song I was listening to was awful(the song was 4th Chamber) and when I ask for the explanation it was simply "it didn't bump enough" to say the least I was digusted, but I asked him if the lyrics meant anything in a rap song and he gave me some bullshit on how they did a little bit,but the beat ultimately was what was more important. Anyways what I guess im trying to say is that hip hop is in a terrible way and its not going to get better until people realize that the beat is not what the feature attraction is , the lyrics are, and rap will have to fall to the bottom in order to get back up.


Uncontrolled Substance (Inspectah Deck)
One of the less appreciate members of Wu Tang but IMO he's one of the best and maybe only surpassed by GZA on overall song writing.

.

YES! I have always said that Deck was very underrated. How the hell can that be when he has the sickest verses in Triumph and Da Mystery of Chessboxin? And what you said bout the guest not liking Liquid Swords is ridiculous. This conversation is akin to guys who like older rock bands who shit on the new stuff today actually, haha.
Anyway, I'm a big Wu fan. I have always said that the Wu always kept hip hop to it's "truest" form. Even though Meth isn't what he used to be, I still think that Ghostface is still going strong. And I have high hopes for Raekwon's Only Built for Cuban Linx II.
So, I feel that hip hop today is shit though. Anytime I turn on Hot 97 (I'm from Jersey and get the station) I don't hear anything amazing, all I hear is that fuckin Jamie Foxx "Blame it on the Alcohol" song or Flo Rida or Soulja Boy. Tonight I nearly shit myself because they played Wu's "Clan in the Front" but other than that they really haven't played anything worth a damn. And Hot 97 is one of the "pinnacle" stations for when it comes to beefs in this area.
I'm trying to find good underground hip hop and I appreciate this thread. I will definitely have to check out these suggestions. I listen to Joe Budden and I really feel his lyrics. While he still talks about the hood he is one of the few rappers who actually admits to being depressed and having issues. A lot of these bubble gum rap artists just talk about how great they are. I can't relate to that most of the time. I am curious as to what Budden's beef with Meth is lately.
I agree that a lot of these young bloods don't appreciate old school rap or the fine art of a diss record. I read an article on how 50 and Rick Ross's beef is weak as it relies on skits and shit and no real diss records like it used to be. I wish I caught the boat during LL Cool J and CanIBus's feud. Those two put out some heated diss's.

 

[Ty Burna]

So I want to throw in some more discussion here. And the topic I want to discuss is stealing beats and rhymes from other artists. Now the reason I bring this topic up is because while I was the Tech N9ne concert on Sunday, Murs performed during the night and in the middle of his set he did a remix over a UGK beat and then told the crowd to make some noise for UGK and RIP Pimp C. He then proceeded to go into how he had a dope beat made for his new album a couple years ago, and a certain mainstream rapper stole his beat.

This rapper that stole the beat from Murs was none other than Rick Ross. Another major issue was that the beat Rick Ross stole from Murs was used for the song The Boss featuring T-Pain. So Murs' beat was stolen from him and then was used in a hit song. To me this is bullshit that Ross went out and not only stole a beat from an independent artist, but also is making huge bank off of it as well. Murs took it well, he performed the song the beat was originally intended for (far better than the shit Ross put out), and then said he wasn't worried he'll just get a fat check in the mail from the fat motherfucker.

Ross never gave Murs credit for the beat, plain and simple. I don't think Murs would have minded as much if he was given credit and received royalties for the song. But this just goes to show you how mainstream rappers and record companies decide to just walk all over the independent artists that are making their own music and doing it right. I wasn't a fan of Ross to begin with, but now its to the point that I have no respect for him whatsoever. Murs has been an artist I've listened to for quite sometime and I will always support him over some stupid motherfucking mainstream wannabe rapper stealing from hard working artists.

 

[Big Sexy]

Stealing beats is something that happens a lot because it's easy for mainstream artists to get them from lesser known artists or producers. It's one thing to sample another song and give the original artist credit for it, but to just flat out steal a beat is bullshit. Rick Ross is one of my least favorite rappers regardless and this just makes me look at him worse then I already did.

As far as stealing rhymes goes, that is a little harder to judge. There are a lot of rhymes that get reused multiple times often to pay homage to the original artist. Some rappers probably don't even realize they are reusing another persons rhyme. A dope rhyme that they've heard before could pop into their head and it would be easy for them to think that it was just something they came up with. Obviously if a rapper knowingly steals a rhyme it's wrong but I don't think that happens as often as stealing beats.

 

[Bozzaholic]

Well let me jump on this train here and promote some underground artists I like:

Immortal Technique: Now Immortal may not be for everyone, I warn you now. The reason for this is because his lyrics and songs are based on a lot of political activism and socialism. However if you don't like those songs, he still has some amazing stories that he tells in his rhymes and he is an artists that thrives in the underground.

I have to say that I heard "Dance with the devil" and I loved it - the story telling in this song is just frigging amazing

as for rap in general I'm a big fan of the stuff that came out between 1999-2003 mainly as that was going through a period of listening and buying a hell of a lot of it (I recently sold my Rap CD collection... nearly 150 albums)

my recommendations

Big Pun
Not a bad song on any of his albums - lyrically tight and the lyrics are pretty fantastic too - even Fat Joe is decent on his disks

Black Twang
Twang is not an amazing rapper but he is a guilty pleasure of mine. check out his song "So Rotten" - it has a slight reggae twist to it

 

[Pimpin]

It's very common that mainstream rappers steal beats cause it's not really a difficult process for them to steal it from a lesser known rapper or producer for that matter. It's also one thing to sample another performers song or beat & give them the proper credit that they deserve, but just doing what Rick Ross did & just flat out stealing a beat & not even give the artist money or credit is just utterly bullshit. I was not really huge on Ross to begin with, but now after what shit he did to Murs by stealing his beat has caused me to lose every bit of respect that I had for Rick Ross(which ain't really much to begin with).

Now as far as the whole stealing rhymes things goes. It's way more harder to judge on whether they're doing that or not cause there are lots of rhymes out there that get reused a shit load of times & 9 times out of 10 they do that to pay homage & respect for that particular artist. Now it's blatantly obvious that if a rapper knowingly steals a rhyme then it's completely wrong, but in my opinion that doesn't happen nearly as much as mainstream rappers stealing other people's beats.

 

[X]

Figured it's about time I added something to this thread, and suggest a totally underrated masterpiece from an artist that still doesn't get the respect that he deserves.

The D.O.C. --- No One Can Do It Better

One of, if not the best lyricist of his time, the D.O.C. remains criminally underrated to this day. Aside from the hit "It's Funky Enough" he never really achieved the same amount of fame as his g-funk and other West Coast peers. Dr. Dre does the beats here and in my opinion this album holds the best productions that Dre ever came up with (that includes the Chronic). D.O.C. also helped contribute lyrics to both Straight Outta Compton as well as some of Eazy-E and Dre's early work.

It's not your typical early 90's West Coast production with songs about bitches, forties and blunts. Instead DOC takes more cues from East Coast rappers like Rakim with much more complex and intelligent lyrics then your average gangsta rap of the time.

This album is just one old school classic after another, featuring some of my all time favorite rap songs with tunes like "The D.O.C. and the Doctor", "Portrait of a Masterpiece" and "Mind Blowin'" among others.

Unfortunately not long after the release of this landmark album, DOC got into a car accident and damaged his vocal chords severely, virtually retiring him for years. He attempted to make another album a few years back, but quite honestly it just wasn't the same. Apparently he's learned of some new treatment and may be able to restore his vocal chords up to 70% of their previous power, so stay on the lookout in the future for a possible return to the rap game by one of the tragically forgotten kings of rap.

Rating --- 5/5

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The audio quality on the last video isn't very good, but it's the only studio version of the song I could find on YouTube. Jesus it's hard to find studio originals of rap songs on YouTube, every song has like 10,000 remixes.

Do yourself a favor, and get this album if you don't already have it. You'll thank me afterwards.

 

[Ty Burna]

The D.O.C. was highly underrated. I agree 100% with you X that he should be more known then he is now. I still like to think of him as the unspoken member of NWA as he did contribute a shit ton to their albums, and basically is the unsung force behind any Dr. Dre album that has been released. What's messed up though is that Dre didn't want The D.O.C. to release his own music, and wanted him to remain Dre's ghostwriter for his tracks.

I think if The D.O.C.'s vocal chords weren't damaged, I think he would have been huge when the West Coast came up. Unfortunately they were and he had to alter his voice in order to record. Truly an underrated vocalist before the accident, a highly underrated producer and mentor after the accident. Luckily he may be able to get surgery and have his voice returned 70% to normal.

 

[LamaNamaneumi]

On the topic of stealing beats, PSYCHOPATHIC RYDAS steal all their beats from top 40 rappers, then put the wicked shit over it. I recomend checking them out, their CDs are rare as all the beats are stolen and not paid for, but they got like 3 or 4 CDs out.

 

[Pimpin]

On the topic of stealing beats, PSYCHOPATHIC RYDAS steal all their beats from top 40 rappers, then put the wicked shit over it. I recomend checking them out, their CDs are rare as all the beats are stolen and not paid for, but they got like 3 or 4 CDs out.

While that may be true & it is wrong to steal beats regardless, the difference is that Psychopathic Rydas steal beats from Mainstream artists, they aren't really mainstream & their shit is considered bootlegged unlike Rick Ross which charges at least 15$-$20 bucks per cd.

I do agree with you that Psychopathic Rydas is the shit as the shit that they spit out over those mainstream beats is the fucking shit.