Two men enter, one man leaves. Can both tag team members be succesful?

[JGlass]

Welcome to the Thunder Dome bitch.

Let's cut right to the chase, it seems that in the WWE, only one member of a tag team can go on to have a successful singles career, while the other seems doomed to remain in the mid-card. Now while I'm going to concentrate on more recent tag teams (as those are the ones I am most familiar with), this seems to have been happening for a long time. The Rockers produced Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannety. The Hart Foundation produced Bret Hart and Jim the Anvil Neidhart. I'm sure there are plenty of examples that could prove otherwise, (I'll get to that later), but I would hate to be embarrassed by one of the more wrestling-smart posters here, so I'll move onto the bulk of my argument, which is modern tag teams.

MNM- Johnny Nitro and Joey Mercury had a lot of success in the tag team division on Smackdown, winning the WWE Tag Team Championship 3 times in the relatively short time they were together. This group helped John Morrison and Melina get to where they are today, but Joey Mercury was released and would be gone for 3 years until he came back as a masked member of the SES. Success: Nitro. Failure: Mercury.

London and Kendrick- A very exciting group of cruiserweights, London and Kendrick won both the World Tag Team Titles and the WWE Tag Team Titles, where they were the longest reigning champions. However, they eventually became tag team jobbers, and were eventually split up. After that, Kendrick was pushed as a strange but arrogant heel, and London was... released. Kendrick didn't last long, but he did have his fair share of screen time, so I'm going to say... Relative Success: Kendrick. Failure: London.

The World's Greatest Tag Team- They probably weren't really the world's greatest tag team, but they certainly thought so, and both Haas and Benjamin were terrific college athletes whose skills carried over to the WWE. This duo managed to capture the WWE Tag titles twice before they split. Benjamin went on to become a 3 time Intercontinental Champ, 1 time US Champ, and has competed in the most Money in the Bank matches at Wrestlemania. Haas would be talent enhancement for years before he had a short run as a superstar who parodied other superstars. Success: Benjamin. Failure: Haas.

Legacy- The two proteges of Randy Orton had success as a tag team, winning the World Tag Team Titles twice, before splitting amicably. It may be too early to tell, but it looks like Cody Rhodes has come into his own as the most dashing superstar WWE has ever seen, while Ted is feuding with a 41 year old Goldust over a belt that isn't real. Cody is holding tag team gold again with Drew McIntyre, and had the opportunity to get more screen time as a pro on NXT Season 2. Success: Rhodes. Possibly a Failure: DiBiase.

APA- While Ron Simmons/Farooq had some success in the Nation of Domination, I think the time he spent best in the WWE was in the APA with a young John Bradshaw. This duo captured the WWF Tag Team Titles 3 times, and made us laugh countless more times. Bradshaw would grow to become JBL, a wealthy but selfish businessman who would become a Grand Slam Champion. Farooq would comically say DAMN! Success: Bradshaw. Failure: Farooq (though it should be noted he was very successful in WCW).

Though there are many more, the last team I want to bring up as a Success/Failure would be The Miz and John Morrison. While the Miz and Morrison are both having some success in the singles competition, it's worth noting that when they split, the WWE strongly pushed that one would be the next HBK, and one would the next Jannety. Both Miz and Morrison seem like they could have success, but the WWE seemed to be self-referencing their inability to successfully push two tag team stars. Could Morrison be damned to midcard hell while Miz flourishes, or will Morrison flip history the middle finger on his way to becoming the superstar we all believed he would be early in his career? Only time will tell.

Now, I'm prepared for some rebuttal, as the WWE has created tag teams that results in both members having success in singles career, but there are really only two where the members got their start in the tag team division and had solo success. I'm of course talking about The Hardy Boyz and Edge and Christian. Jeff and Edge went onto be main event level successes, while Christian and Matt both had great midcard careers. I wouldn't say Matt or Christian were failures... but certainly not as successful as Edge of Jeff.

So what do you think? Do you think that there is a reason the WWE can't push both superstars to the same levels of success, or do you think it's just bad luck? And what do you think about the young tag teams we have today, like The Hart Dynasty, The Usos, and The Dudebusters?

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

I think both men can be successful. A lot of times they break up a tag team BECAUSE one of them can't pull their own load. Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas are both fantastic wrestlers, but creative could never figure out what to do with the plain look that Haas brought to the table. In a lot of ways, WWE creative is to blame for the fall of tag teams. THey don't know how to push lower-mid card wresters, or even mid-carders at this point. If you aren't huge with steaming amounts of charisma, creative wont' use it. It's because they dont' know what they're doing. Do you think creative ever really has to do anything for some of the best angles in WWE history. JOhn Cena vs. Edge... I'm sure both those veterans put the majority of that magic together themselves. Jericho and HBk probably did the same thing. Creative is pointless. They have no idea what they're doing.

I'm not saying they should go the way of TNA and let the wrestlers run wild on anything and everything they ever want to do. But at least TNA has some awesome tag teams, that could break off into successful singles stars.

WWE needs to learn how to use guys like Christian, Matt Hardy, Charlie Haas, Cody Rhodes, etc. I think both members of a tag team can be successful, but more often than not you see one guy released, and the other guy flounder for a few years before stumbling to the exact same bitter end.

 

[Ferbian]

Interesting thread.

Sure I don't see why both members of the tag team couldn't go on and be successful. And certainly there have also been teams that had both wrestlers go on and become successful. However it depends on how you look at it, Edge and Christian split and are both successful in their own manner, but both are surefire Hall of Fame inductees.

I think it can be hard to form a tag team from the beginning that builds to the point where when they split that both of them becomes equally successful. There will always be one of the wrestlers that shows more talent, or more potential than the other one. However, the tag team period is what makes you determine who really is the better one. The Rockers is a nice example of this. I believe Marty was the more experienced one of the two, and certainly he was one hell of a wrestler as well. But Shawn was the one that showed the better talent and the better potential. Marty went on to have a "fine" career with a few title reigns, but he wasn't as successful.

So I really think, while the possibility of building a tag team and then splitting them to create successful starts respectably. It is still mostly about who shows the bigger potential, who shows the bigger promise for the future when it comes to the most successful of the two.

 

[Ultra Awesome]

I think that the reason why usually only one wrestler out of a tag-team makes it to success is simply because the WWE believes that the chosen wrestler will make it farther than the other; Or in the very least, the chosen individual has a better chance of making it farther (Either that, or they just like him more). And as a result, you have the WWE focus on them more by pushing them to higher limits.

If you just goes by the people you mentioned say, Miz and Morrison, you will see what I mean. At first it did look as if though Morrison would become the greater of the two (at least to the naked eye). But then you have the the Miz, who spent all his time improving his work---both in-ring and by mic-skills. Miz spent his time dedicated to the business. This was easily shown through how much he would promote the business outside of WWE territory. Obviously, WWE took a liking to what the Miz did and decided to focus on a push for the Miz. Now in contrast, ask yourself, what did Morrison do? And the simple answer would be: Nothing really. Sure, he put on decent matches but he didn’t really do much to up his game. Therefore, you had the MIz being the success of the two.

The fact that one wrestler usually ends up the better of the two is really only based upon how the WWE is more high on that particular superstar than the other. When the WWE breaks up a tag-team, it is common practice for them to try and push one of them to super-stardom. And which ne do they push? The one they think will be a greater success. WWE believed JBL would be the greater success out of the APA so they focused on him. Then you have Benjamin and Haas. It’s fair to say WWE thought Benjamin would be the greater of the two, so Shelton got the better draw.

However, then you have a team such as Legacy to contradict my theory. WWE looked like they would want to focus more on Ted Dibiase, yet Cody seems to be getting the longer straw. The reason for this, I believe was because Ted wasn’t really proving he could do anything. Sure, he had his father’s gimmick adopted to his won. But really, he wasn’t doing anything special causing him to be somewhat stale. On the other hand, you had Cody adopt his metro-sexual gimmick, something, for some reason the fans took a liking to. WWE saw this and decided to focus more on Cody than on Ted.

Whether it be because the said member shows greater talent or simply because he seems to look like he could make it further, WWE picks that person and focuses on him---pushing him to possibly even main event status. In contrast, possibly the reason the WWE doesn't push the other member is because they don't think he will have the same chance of success as the first, so they don't want to pay too much attention on him.

It's not fair. And it [probably] shouldn't be like that. But in the end, it doesn't matter. Why? Because it's business. Business doesn't have to be fair. Business has to make profit.

 

[skeet mg]

It seems like todays tag teams will either have one person go on to success, or they both get buried, like Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder, neither of which have done anything important. Zack Ryder has gone so low that he lost to Santino's cobra. That's ridiculous.

Hart Dynasty - Right now I think DH Smith will have the more successful career, but he just isn't a good heel. WWE is splitting up this team the wrong way, and I think a better way to split them up would've been drafting one of them to SD. I like Tyson Kidd but creative doesn't know how to push cruiserweights.

Usos - I honestly don't see either of them getting anywhere past tag team titles.

Dudebusters - I don't watch SD enough to know what these guys are doing.

Cody Rhodes and Drew McIntyre - If there was one team in today's WWE to have both members become successful, it's this one. I think McIntyre will be more successful, but you never know with Cody Rhodes as the tag partner. McIntyre has the potential to be a main eventer, while Cody may be destined for the midcard, like Christian after E & C or Matt Hardy after the Hardy Boyz broke up.

 

[Eyebrows]

It seems to be a trend. I wonder if it's because WWE's decision to split up a tag-team is either because they aren't getting over, in which case none of them succeed in their current gimmick. or because they're high on one member of tag-team and thus focus all their attention on that one guy.

I think Christian and Faarooq might be the exceptions though...the NWA Heavyweight Belt is pretty damn prestigious even if that prestige was somewhat deminished by the multiple Jarrett runs. But definitely in the WWE Edge has been way more successful. Faarooq was retiring and like you said all his success came before.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

Well to answer this questions you have to take some case studies:

The rockers- So obvious they probably started this entire thread as a passing thought in your head JGlass. But with respect they are quite possibly within recent memory and I use the term loosely,(last 25 years) amongst the first mainstream examples of this along with hart foundation. This then begs the question if this phenomenon is all that common given that only two teams spring up immediately in an initial five year period. Nevertheless when you watched the tag team as a fan you would not have picked a man right there to go on and be one of the biggest stars in wrestling history and it was so fine that if you had to pick you probably would have said Jannetty. He was more experienced and did most of the talking for the group. So this creates the predicament of unpredictability of calling who will be MORE successful when a tag team eventually does split. So learning from this we have to look at a tag team where everybody expected one person to be the breakout star...

Miz and Morrison- People called Morrison such flattering titles it wasnt worth thinking about where Miz would be in a couple of years, probably nowhere or in stasis. Yet switch to now, right now. We have a man who consistently impresses everybody and has a great fan backing in Morrison. People were on the edge of the seats for his falls count anywhere match against sheamus. But we all know this has been a trend continued since the two split. In that time morrison has in fact had a world title match (I almost forgot as well) and then been thrown out the title picture after losing. He has been intercontinental champion by means of a gruelling match, one I called as a match of the year contender for 09 against rey mysterio and then lost to his first real competition mcintyre who frankly dominated him. And this was his third intercontinental title, really should be starting to enforce this man as a keeper by then but no. He has at any PPV where there has been a faction vs faction match ie bragging rights, against nexus been part of the team. The WWE have teased us with this mans rise to power so many times that if we were all toddlers it would have been considered child cruelty.

Now look at his then 'deadbeat' partner. A feud with John Cena. Mr MITB, very few people can stick they're name to that. A man who WWE has verified they have big plans for. So can you ever predict if one partner will do better than the other?! So far these are the closest that we have come to a prediction if both can or will be successful but lets continue...

Edge and christian- Both have been heavyweight champions. Now I know what you will say about christian was in TNA when it was even smaller than it is now and edge is a multiple time WWE champion. Well I just want to alert everybody to christian's position before he left. One of the biggest heels around at the time with tomko as his bodyguard and feuded with cena the whole part where he claimed he was a better rapper and at this time he was REAALLLY over but people forget this, some thought that he would soon become a main-eventer and indeed he wrestled in a match for the top belt against cena and chris jericho which he lost and another on smackdown after he was drafted which he again lost. But there is no denying he was right up there. Then he made the switch, who knows where he would be had he stayed, we almost certainly would have had our edge and christian feud by now anyway. So this is almost certainly the best example of two successful partners.

But it is now I really have to question the whole nature of the thread. Do you want two guys who are successful or equally successful and I think I know the answer. You see you take one of these other guys from a tag team. Lets look at jim the anvil neidhart.Not as successful as bret......SO WHAT!!! How many people would have killed to have been around the top of a company in about 1997.....he was! So was he unsuccessful....BY NO MEANS!! He had a highly enviable career by most guys standards and yeah he was surpassed by bret...what would have been the chances of pairing the two most successful guys together before you knew that it was going to happen. That would be like pairing together shawn and bret as the rockers or cena and batista back in 03, who knows if they would ever have even made it together? Hell even lookin at jannetty shows he has had a hell of a career compared to some guys.

So the question really is were matt hardy, christian and other unsuccessful or just not AS successful as their once tag teams partners. I think you probably know the answer anyway. If you aspire to have two guys who both will make it big time, then your really expecting too much. Sometimes there has to be a fall guy and you don't regret you just look forward

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

With relation to all of those tag teams that you mentionned, none of them are completely ready even for tag team wrestling. I think the reason everybody called out miz morrison for being successful in singles was that they were such a good tag team it looked like they could easily transition this to singles. None of the teams you mentionned look very good even as tag teams so it would take a lot of work if one team prematurely split up (too late) to build one character let alone both. They are all very rough ie they have the in-ring ability most do these days in WWE's young guys but they havent created a personality yet.

I think the priority of the WWE right now is to create a tag team divison in the first place, not just one team with no contenders to face. I fell sorry for cody and mcintyre because if they hold on to these belts for a while it wont mean anything at all and they seemed so promising from the get-go. So create a tag team divison which can compete with your nearest rival company, will take a while, and then you can begin to worry about what your going to do when you split then up. Honestly WWE you need to sort out your priorities.

 

[HBKevin]

The problem is that after two wrestlers have entered the business as a tag team, they will always be compared to each other after they split up. You can compare any two random wrestlers and ask who was more "successful." It's really a moot point, there are different ways to gauge that in pro wrestling, and different levels on the card. A lot of people think Christian should be in the main event, but he's a mid-card worker putting over younger guys.

Is he successful? Yes, he is in his role. You could say not as much as Edge, but not as much as John Cena or Randy Orton either. Edge is only the first one compared because they were former tag partners. But so what?

 

[The Viper Orton]

90% true. Never forget that Tag teams include Rock N Sock connection. Even though they were already popular when they teamed up and still they made it. Another example is DX V1, with Triple H and Shawn. Will you say shawn failed and left after being injured.

It doesn't make sense, it just happens to be there is one guy that comes with the better skills and gimmick and makes it. For example everyone saw Miz failing and Morrison making it after splitting up, and morrison (got a bigger push than at least kendrick) got the initial push. However, Miz kind of forced it with his talent. Same goes for Legacy. Ted Dibiese was set for a push that some went and said he would be next in line for WWE champion belt after a while. Yet look, Cody came up with "Dashing" gimmick and got pushed while Ted failed at his gimmick.

The point is, this had some kind of luck to do with 1 guy set for success and other for failure.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Sure, I don't see why not. I think the problem is that a lot of people automatically equate success with main event status. The simple truth is that most wrestlers are not going to be main eventers. There are only so many main event spots and sometimes some of the best might not make it to that level. Maybe it's a mistake that they don't, maybe it isn't. That's just how it goes as picking who should be the next main eventer isn't an exact science.

I think of success as a guy simply being a really good wrestler, doing his job well, is over with the fans, makes them care about what he's involved in, etc. Look at old school guys like Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson. Both of these guys were great, great talents but they never made it to the main event scene. They'd attained a lot of success prior to forming a tag team, but you get my drift. They're viewed by many as great wrestlers and great successes without ever having a world title reign or really ever even being in the running for a world title reign.

For a more modern perspective, look at The Miz & John Morrison. They were a great tag team and both have been successful singles wrestlers. I think it's fairly obvious that The Miz has been the most successful thus far, but that doesn't mean that Morrison is, in actuallity, a "Marty Jannetty" in the making. And, over the past 2 months roughly, Morrison has been looking great and bigger things might be ahead of him.