turning stone cold heel..brave move or forced hand?

[Joehaha]

again im watching back old episodes of raw and smackdown and its around the time of rock austin at mania where austin turns heel with vince.

after mania the rock makes one appearence on raw and isnt seen again for months due to filming..not sure if it was the mummy or scorp king, either way he was gone for months. so out of austin and rock your 2 biggest company faces, ones gone.....and you decide to turn the other heel.

now my question is was this a bold, brave move to try and bring through new talent or was it forced upon them as rock was going to leave anyway?

if rocks leaving..you cant keep the belt on him, simple as that. so rock winning was out of the question. so could they have let austin go over him clean? the risks would be putting it out there that austins the better of the 2. this would keep austin a face and he could go on to feud with hhh,angle or whoever else they wanted until the rock returns.

of course they didnt do that, austin turned heel, and feuded with the likes of taker, kane, jericho and benoit. even the hardys too. taker aside, none of them were really HUGE jericho had huge fan support but wwf hadnt pushed him to the top as of yet really.

wether it was a decision they took months before mania or wether it was something that was forced upon them, i did thoroughly enjoy austin/hhh feuding with these guys as it was something fresh and new, loved every minute of it. but im just asking was it the plan or were their hands tied?

 

[Master.Panda]

Now, I haven't read it in a while, but I believe that in, "The Stone Cold Truth," Austin himself makes it clear that he and McMahon believed his, "Face," character was no longer as edgy as it used to be. He was being too clean...no longer the anti-hero that would do anything to win. He wasn't getting the pops he used to, which they saw as similar to hogan during his WCW run, so they decided to turn him heel.

I believe the book said that, when McMahon slid him that chair and he nailed the Rock with it and he won, he got the pop again. Apparently, at that moment, he knew that he could be the Rattlesnake again...and all he had to do was stun Vince. I agree with that sentiment.

However, they'd already written the storyline and set it in stone. Now, it's true that bitch Austin didn't work as well as heel Hogan at the time. If Austin wasn't always trying to brown-nose Vince, but worked alongside him as Taker did during the CM storyline, I believe.

 

[Thirteen Eleven]

From time to time, I like seeing faces become heels. Always I find heels so much more interesting than Faces, since heels usually have the more interesting character, faces become stale so fast (With exception from The Rock or Stone Cold). A good face is hard to find!
Sometimes, faces just NEED to become heel, Cena comes to mind in this. However, Cena will not become a heel imo, cause he draws lot's of $$$$$ to the WWE.

But... back on topic now; Austin's heel turn didn't seem 100% necessary to me, his 'face-persona' had a lot of characteristics of a heel (like many others did or do, Rock did, and Orton does now), but people loved him. Though it was probably a smart move to let Austin win, with the points already being made that Rock was taking time of to shoot a movie and couldn't keep the belt, and having Austin go over Rock clean would indeed seem like Austin was 'the better of the two'. Just feel like they should've let McMahon out, since Austin could've gotten a 'dirty' victory over Rock himself, I found it disappointing they threw McMahon in the mix ('Cause of the hatred the characters felt towards one another). But it's also logical, since I think it was pretty hard to let people boo Austin, so that must be why Vince was brought in the mix.

Man o man, do I miss people like Austin and The Rock in wrestling....!

 

[FanSince99]

I think it was a good idea maybe not needed but a good idea. I rember the shows leading up to that Mania. Austin kept saying he needed to beat the rock and was almost "addicted" to the title similar to HHH. It also worked out in the long run becasue it did help rasie Benoit and Jericho and made the Allience angle just a little more interesting.

 

[Bullseye]

Great question... I thought I knew the answer to this but when you think about it, it probably isn't that cut and dry.

I'd have to say, without any inside knowledge, that it seems like a brave move to me.

As you say, the Rock was leaving, so turning Austin heel eradicates your top two faces instantly. However, The Undertaker and Kane were hot after victories at Wrestlemania, and were ready for the main event again - leading to, in my opinion, pretty awesome main events at both Backlash and Judgment day.

Angle was just a few months away from evolving further into his dangerous 'wrestling machine' gimmick that got him super-over around Summerslam. Apparently, Heyman was lobbying behind the scenes for Main-event pushes for both Jericho and Benoit. Add to this that Triple H was pretty much the most evil man on the planet, and still getting solid face pops, and the talent pool of potential top faces isn't as small as first assumed.

Of couse, the whole invasion angle/HHH injury reduces the significance of Austin's heel turn in the first place anyway. Vince had killed the competition, had just acquired almost the whole of WCW's roster, and Stone Cold wasn't getting huge pops. What did he have to lose in turning Austin heel? At the very least we had the chance of seeing the 'explosion of the two man power trip' and a face HHH v a heel Austin, something we would never see. The abrupt end to the invasion meant Austin turned face again soon after anyway.

Seems to me the heel turn was a brave move that worked for a few months but was ultimately inconsequential due to external events.

 

[The Other Hardy Brother]

We will never know for sure whether it was the plan all along or it was a last minute decision. Things change on the drop of a dime in the WWE so there is a strong possibility it was a last minute creative decision. I will say this Austin being the biggest face in the company at the time turning him heel sure was a bold move. But boy did it pay off. Austin played a great heel and got great heat after turning on the fans and siding with his bitter rival. People talk about Hogan's heel turn all the time but noone ever mentions Austins.

 

[CYoung2003]

In Austin's book, he said that after he pinned the Rock and stared at Vince, at WM, he was contemplating on whether to stun Vince, or go along with the heel angle. He said that Vince gave him that option, and left the decision to Austin. He went with his "gut feeling".

 

[adamisme]

Austin always said that he would have loved to at the end of Wrestlemania instead of shaking Vince's hand, give him the finger and give him a stunner.

Personally Austin was all the anti-hero, yeah we classed him as the face, but he would jsut as much stunner a good guys as he would a bad guy

 

[CyDeez]

I don't think their hands were tied by any means.

Austin had just gone over The Rock 2 years prior at WM 15. It has been well known that Austin, McMahon and others within creative and what not, felt his gimmick was running dry. People still loved Austin, but he had been gone for around a year and other people stepped up in the company.

I think they felt like he needed a change to get back to where he was or even reach new heights. Instead of keeping him Face and feuding with Triple H. They joined him with Vince in a shocking WM moment. And then aligned him with Triple H. Which IMO was pure gold at the time. The 2 Man Power Trip!

It was great because they were feuding with guys that were ready, but not quite over yet into legit, every week main event stars. Guys like Benoit, Jericho, and The Hardy's.

Those guys were over as Faces. But there wasn't much room for them as far as Main Event goes. You had guys like Rock, Austin, HHH, Undertaker, and Angle dominating The Main Event scene. With Rock out filming, and Austin now the company top Heel. They throw HHH with Austin and it left room for these younger Faces to get their foot in the door.

HHH got injured shortly after this. So IMO it was a great idea to turn Austin. Because he carried the company as The Top Heel for months. Plus, his turn was a memorable one, on the grandest stage of them all.

Another point, I'm not sure if they didn't turn him from the get go because they had an idea they wanted him to lead The WCW/ECW Alliance's invasion of WWE. But that might not be the case as WCW started off as Faces in the whole angle.

 

[silrock316]

I think at this point many inside WWE felt like a Stone Cold face was a stale one. With Rock leaving and WWE needing to keep its fans interested until The Rock came back it was a decent quick fix. (obviously not knowing Rock was going to end up leaving for good). The also had plans at the time for HHH to become the huge babyface on Raw when he and Austin were the one man powertrip but HHH took another injury that derailed that plan. Austin had missed a ton of work and guys like Rock were beginning to take over the show. Austin was still greatly over but didn't have that spark as he did at one time. Rock had it at this point.

When it was all said and done Austins heel turn was 50/50 therefore they just turned him face again. To me, it wasn't a must, it was just a roll of the dice to freshen Stone Cold and give the WWE a face lift while The Rock was off doing other things.

WWE trys to take chances and strike at the best moments, which is why I thought Cena would turn heel and them try and take advantage of Ortons face movement. Which is what I think they tried to do with Austin and Rock at that point.

 

[Nada]

According to Kevin Kelly's shoot, he explained that the original plan was to turn him heel a year before WM17, but that injury prevented that.

I dont see why he would lie about that, and it certantly makes more sense.

As far as his character goes, WWE watered him down, the day i realised this wasent the same character was in 1999 i believe when Austin won some stipulation match that made him the owner or something like that of WWE, then you saw a "funny" clip of him hanging around WWE headquarters and being a prankster.

In 2002, before he walked out of the company, they were sorta trying another Austin vs His Evil Boss, this time it was Ric Flair who owned 50% of the company storyline, it never took off and it was clear that Austin fighting authority would not work, people had seen it already.

To answer your question i would say, it is both forced and brave in that WWE was in a fantastic position before WM17, they could do no wrong, bought out the competition, top stars, huge ratings, so why not? Afterall The Rock can just sell T shirts, it didnt seem well planned, and it seemed like something to do for the hell of it, rather than having a plan.

 

[CB429]

he needed to change... he was coming back from the injury and rock had too much steam as a face to turn him heel.... austin was pretty unexpected especially with vince... anyways it didn't last long... rock left soon after that and austin became tweener with some hilarious skits with kurt angle... match even wasn't too special at wrestlemania... rock and austin you remember the endings more imo than the in match spots... even the match had poor build up... debra gets hurt while being rocks manager wtf... it wasn't that great

 

[DL23]

Austin was stale, from Summerslam 1999-Survivor Series 1999 he was stale and his neck injury allowed him time to get away and when he returned WWE thought he'd get the same reaction he did in the 1997-98 period, it didn't happen, Austin was to stale, plus unbeatable which hurt him in the long run, his heel turn was done perfectly at Wrestlemania 17 problem was they dropped it big time afterwards, I blame WWE buying WCW for this as they had so much talent and storylines they ended up with a huge cluster-fuck.
At least when he turned face they kept the belt off him but once the belt was kept away from Austin he realized the writing was on the wall.

 

[Suneeboy]

It was a combination of both. They were forced, but at the same time it was still an unexpected twist, since McMahon ended up being the one he turned heel with.

The character wasn't stale, but the fans wouldn't have minded if someone else would've came in and slid in as top face. Similar to how Warrior came in while Hogan was top face, and how Orton is coming in now with Cena as top face.

It was logical, and although a little premature, it had to be done at Wrestlemania to give it the shock value that a heel turn of that magnitude deserved. What it also set up was a returning Rock as the conquering face, and helped establish some new faces at the top of the card. With Austin as a heel as well as HHH, a lot of doors were opened up.