TNA: Ultimate Submission Match, Randy Savage vs. Rob Van Dam

[Shocky]

The following match takes place in the TNA Region, inside of the six sided ring, from the Impact Zone in Orlando, FL.

Match: Ultimate Submission Match.

The rules of the match are as follows. The match will last for thirty minutes. The wrestler to score the most wins via submission only during the time limit will be the winner.

A Submission goes as follow, a tap out, a verbal submission, and a knockout based upon the referee's decision.

Macho Man Randy Savage

vs.

Rob Van Dam

 

[klunderbunker]

This was the first match chosen in the entire round and it right away set a bad taste in my mouth for the whole thing. Have either of these guys ever even used a submission hold? I've been thinking about it and I remember Savage using a Boston Crab one time. It was flat out terrible to say the least, but ti's all I have to go on. I think at the end of the day, it comes down to one simple fact: Savage is a crazy fucker that won't give up. Van Dam would take a lot of punishment, but I'd see him submitting before Savage. Either way, this wouldn't be a great match, but it would go to Savage.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Neither of these two are submission specialists by any stretch. With both of them, it's basically just been your standard arm bar or side headlock or something along those lines.

To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if this match ended in a draw. I've never seen either one of them submit. Closest I've seen is Savage passing out after Ric Flair slapped in him the figure four, though that would count in this match. I'm really not sure about this.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

Technically, this is a no-disqualification match. I think, anyway. You can only score a point by submission, right? If that's the case, then I see Van Dam, since neither of these guys ever use submissions, going outside and incorporating some weapons. It's a toss though, really. I'm voting RVD.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

RVD is innovative. he would be told about this match and then he would go out and find a submission to use. Savage, not so innovative. Not to mention the fact that RVD is very limber, it would take more submission expertise than Savage has to find the right move that would stretch RVD out enough to where he would tap out.


Vote: RVD

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Technically, this is a no-disqualification match. I think, anyway. You can only score a point by submission, right? If that's the case, then I see Van Dam, since neither of these guys ever use submissions, going outside and incorporating some weapons. It's a toss though, really. I'm voting RVD.

I suppose some clarification might be needed, now that you mention it. I don't know if this is no DQ or what. This doesn't necessarily have to be a no DQ match. While most of the gimmick matches thus far have been no DQ, the two out of three falls match between Foley and the Ultimate Warrior up in the WWE New York Bracket isn't. It's a detail that could make all the difference.

 

[Shocky]

I should clarify the rule on this one, you can be disqualified in this match if I remember correctly. A dq will count against the wrestler int his match as well. If anyone watches this match (Angle vs. Benoit Backlash 2001) and hears otherwise, let me know, but as I remember, DQ's will cost you a fall.

 

[SavageTaker]

Wow, I really do not know what to write. All I can say is that this is a going to be a very interesting match seeing as how both of these men are not submission specialist or aren't even known for using Submission.

I am going to vote for the "Macho Man" Randy Savage, because even though it is just a Boston Crab, at least it is still something. While on the flip side, I don't ever remember Van Dam using a submission maneuver.

All I know is that this is going to be one interesting match up and I am going to vote for Savage but I would not mind a draw and both of them moving on to the next round.

 

[Captain America]

Neither of them are known for their submission game, so to me this match comes down simply to who's better, Savage or RVD? To me no questions Savage is better. RVD is unorthodox and would get in his usual array of arsenal (you know the same handful of moves that he uses in every single match he ever has.), but it wouldn't be enough to slow Savage down. Randy would get the win here.

 

[Shocky]

Yeah, in this one it's a virtual toss up. Savage on one hand is a crazy son of a bitch that could just go berzerk, get himself DQ'd in the process, but maybe end up making it up in a submission or knockout victory.

RVD on the other hand is a guy that most forget his roots, a well rounded martial artist that I'm sure has some sort of submission move in his arsenal.

Personally, I dno't lean with either one, and I'm not sure the argumetn exist out there to push me to one more then the other.

In a just world, this match ends in a 30 minute time limit draw (perfectly realistic in this situation) and then AJ Styles beats Triple H, and we are lucky enough to get Savage vs. RVD vs. Styles in an Ultimate X match, wet dream.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Wow, I really do not know what to write. All I can say is that this is a going to be a very interesting match seeing as how both of these men are not submission specialist or aren't even known for using Submission.

I am going to vote for the "Macho Man" Randy Savage, because even though it is just a Boston Crab, at least it is still something. While on the flip side, I don't ever remember Van Dam using a submission maneuver.

This brings to mind another man who at one time was not known for using a submission move. In fact he never used one in his career until he got put in a triple threat Submission match. The man, John Cena. The move, STFU.

If John Cena can be put into a submission based match and pull out a type of move he had never used before in his career why can't RVD? RVD and Cena are a lot alike and i strongly believe while RVD has never used a submission finisher he would do the same thing Cena did and come up with a submission move and shocking everyone in the arena by picking up the victory.

Besides anything RVD can come up with has to be better than a shitty half assed Boston Crab.

 

[Skillz]

The stipulation favours no one as neither men really use submission moves. Therefore I have to base my vote solely on who was better, and that makes it a very easy decision. Randy Savage is 10 times the professional wrestler RVD is, and that is indisputable. I'm sure Savage would be able to pull off a few submissions moves if needed, and it would take a hell of a lot to make Savage submit. Vote for one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, vote for Randy Savage.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

RVD is unorthodox and would get in his usual array of arsenal (you know the same handful of moves that he uses in every single match he ever has.)

Do you mean the moves he uses to wear down opponents bigger than him? Or do you mean the fast paced moves he uses to keep up with the cruiserweights?

Saying RVD uses the same handful of moves every match is like saying water won't get you wet. It's Bullshit. RVD has had matches with Bam Bam Bigelow (I think he's faced Bam Bam not 100% sure) where he wore him down and brought him to his knees. He had matches with Jerry Lynn that were some of the most fast paced matches I have ever seen. RVD knows how to tailor his style to whoever he is facing and the type of match they will be in. This match would be no different.

 

[Harthan]

Let's not forget here that RVD is a well versed martial artist and has been all over Japan, where he's had the pleasure of seeing all sorts of crazy shit done. He's smart and innovate enough where he could probably break out something he's seen or had applied to him at some point in his career.

Neither man is known for much in the way of submission, but let's not forget that in a match like this, you don't need to break out anything fancy. An armbar or sleeper hold is just as good as a kimura or a surfboard. Basic moves can score you a fall here, after your opponent is out of energy.

Endurance, then, is a big factor, and both are known for it. RVD has wars in ECW where he just keeps getting up, but Savage is a big one for not counting out. Personally, I think RVD will be toughened up by crazy hardcore shit he's been dealt in his career, and the basic gameplay of Savage won't wear him down as quickly as he will Savage. Lock in a sleeper hold or something, and you've got a point.

It'd be a long, grueling contest, but I think RVD will have a slight edge in submission variety and an edge in endurance that will push him to the victory.

Vote: Rob Van Dam

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

This is going to be a long and grueling match and RVD is smart enough to use submission techniques he learned in Japan but Savage has used the Boston Crab so I believe he will use that. If a DQ does count as a fall, I can see Savage getting frustrated just enough and his anger will take over and smash RVD with a chair thus giving Van Dam the win.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Well, this match is officially a coin flip. Savage and RVD don't use submissions. So the question is, who's more prone to being knocked out or tapping out? That is also a toss up. So I read in the rules that a DQ can cost someone a fall. This doesn't bode well for the Macho Man. Savage is nuts and isn't above a chair shot to knock someone out...and he's also not above being caught doing it and getting a DQ.

I give this one to RVD, but it's a tossup. A decent argument for Savage will sway my vote.

 

[JGlass]

RVD is trained in both kickboxing and martial arts, so I'm positive he can pull some sort of submission maneuver off without any trouble. However, one must keep in mind that the actual submission is only a small part of the contest. Most of the contest is wearing down the opponent enough so that when the submission is locked on, they are quick to tap out. For this reason, I give the edge to RVD. Macho Man only has his Boston Crab, so it's predictable what part of RVD's body he's going to be working. RVD, on the other hand, can pull out any sort of submission maneuver, whether it's an armbar or a leg lock, making him a little more unpredictable. Also, it's no secret that Macho Man isn't afraid to get a steel chair involved, but with RVD's innovation with weapons, it might be in Macho Man's best interest to keep the chairs under the ring.

It'll be a grueling match, and I suspect each man to score some submissions, but in the end, I think RVD will be victorious.

 

[Razor]

Ugh. Have both ever used a submission move? Like, ever? If we go by other posters, it's a one-off Boston Crab. Doesn't really boost confidence in Savage.

In a just world, this match ends in a 30 minute time limit draw (perfectly realistic in this situation) and then AJ Styles beats Triple H, and we are lucky enough to get Savage vs. RVD vs. Styles in an Ultimate X match, wet dream.

I'm going with this. When in doubt, look for the most logical answer. RVD and Savage tie in a 30 minute draw.

Though, if you really want a winner, go with RVD for his martial arts background. I'd much rather see an awesome 3-way match between Savage/RVD/and Triple H or AJ Styles.

 

[SavageTaker]

I think that Randy Savage has enough moves in his arsenal to wear down Rob Van Dam enough to the point where he can lock in the Boston Crab or any submission move and be able to get a fall. I am sure that he knows how to do some sleepers holds, and really the submission move doesn't matter much in this match. If Savage is able to wear down Van Dam enough then any submission move will be able to make Van Dam Tap out and give Savage a Fall.

As far as the RVD was trained in MMA and Kickboxing argument, that does not matter much because we never saw him do any of the submission moves that they teach a lot of the people who train in Mixed Martial Arts or Kickboxing. As far as we know he didn't even learn any submission move and just decided to learn some stuff to add to his wrestling move set, which doesn't include a submission move.

Until I see RVD do one of the moves that he supposedly learn from MMA/Kickboxing training and a good argument for him then my vote is going to stay on Savage

 

[ZEUS]

I think I've gotta go with the Macho Man here. Why? He doesn't submit. Ever. The only time I can remember him losing to a submission hold is when Flair won the WWF world title from him, and he didn't submit, he passed out and had his shoulders counted down on the mat. I don't recall RVD ever tapping out either, but I know for a fact that Savage took Flair's Figure Four, one of the best submission holds ever, and even with a messed up leg, did not tap out.

Now, he probably couldn't make RVD tap either, but the way I see it, 5 or 6 Macho Flying Elbows will have RVD out cold.

 

[Coco]

I'll give Rob Van Dam an edge simply because I distinctly remember him using a triangle choke on Mark Henry on January 5, 2004. Rob has the moves to take somebody down using that style, IF HE NEEDS TO. Submission skill doesn't jump out of either man's moveset, but that one display from RVD leads me to believe he has a lot more he isn't showing us in that department, more than Savage. My vote goes to Van Dam.

 

[RVDgurl]

I don't think this gimmick match lends an advantage to either guy. Neither RVD or Randy Savage have a subimission hold in their routine moveset. With that being said, I think that although Savage's elbow from the top rope was a great high flying move, the TNA ring gives RVD more of an advantage for an aerial attack. RVD is faster and more innovative than Savage. I don't think this match would see that many tapouts collectively, but I do think RVD would be able to pull out one more than Savage.

VOTE FOR RVD!!!!!!

 

[NSL]

It pains me, but I'm going with RVD. Macho Man will wear himself out getting the first point or two, but then RVD will be able to beat him up, and possibly even get a KO win. I don't think either man will win by a large margin...Possibly a 3-2 score in the end.

 

[Tastycles]

How the hell is Rob Van Dam winning this? The arguments are pitiful:

1. He'll use weapons Err. no he won't he'll get DQ'd if he does

2. He could come up with something better than a boston crab Like what exactly? The Boston Crab may look like shit, but it's won Jericho world championships ad has been a legitimately devastating submission hold for about 30 years. Jericho beat someone with it at Wrestlemania. I challenge anyone to find an older submission move still in use. I do believe that Jericho actually beat Van Dam with the boston crab in 2005. Despite that, it's not as if Rob Van Dam is some sort of chain wrestling extraodinaire is it?

3. RVD is trained in martial arts Well, kickboxing is the ony one he holds any sort of distinction in, and the none of the others that he's even attempted: Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Aikido and Kendo, are in any way, shape or form of submission sports. Should I bring up Savage's baseball career? It's about as relevant.

4. Rob Van Dam is better in a TNA environment Hmm, yeah because Randy Savage definitely never went to the top rope. He definitely wasn't the first main eventer in North America to do that, and he definitely didn't have two finishers that were hit from on top of the turnbuckle. Oh wait, I appear to be mistaken.

5. Rob Van Dam is more of an innovator Yup, again, learn your wrestling history. Van Dam invented about 4 moves with a chair and popularised rolling thunder as a move. Savage was the first main eventer to go to the top rope, the first to have the kind of interaction he did with his female manager, the most innovative in his promos in his time, one the most distincitve wrestlers visually of all time, and he put somebody through a table in 1985, which I believe is the earliest anyone has ever done so. Savage is ten times the innovator Rob Van Dam is.

So, we've looked at the reasons why RVD won't win, lets look at the reasons why Savage will. Firstly, Savage coud work a crowd as good as anybody, and the Impact Zone is in his hometown too, remember. In a submission match, having the crowd willing you to the ropes is immensly important.

Secondly, Savage fought submission guys like Flair on numerour occaisions and wasn't made to submit. Van Dam was made to submit by submission wrestlers on numerous occaisions.

Clearly, neither of them is Benoit or Hart, but Savage is a more resiliant and more innovative competitor, and immensly more succesful during his career, and he surely has to have the upper hand as a result.

 

[gd]

Gotta go Savage here, thanks to Tastycles. Neither man was known for his submission prowess, so I'll have to go with whose better, and that is Savage. He's won much more in his career, faced better wrestlers, the match is in his hometown, he is just as much of if not a better highflyer than RVD, and he has actually used a submission finisher before.

In all actuality, there isn't really a reason to vote for RVD here, except for the fact they you are a big fan of his. I'm voting for who should win, and that is the Macho Man.