TNA (Total Nonstop Action) = TGB (Total Gruesome Brutality)

[D-Man]

Ok, I get it. TNA wants their format to continue to evolve. They need to get an edge on the WWE and produce a product that they cannot provide the audience.

At first, they pushed the in-ring action to be superior to the WWE and they were extremely successful (and still are on many occasions).

Next, they pushed the envelope with on-screen sexuality, racy storylines and borderline-offensive language to cater to the male demographic. This was a smart play since the majority of TNA wrestling fans are men that are fans of the direction of Spike TV programming.

But now, it appears as if TNA is digging back 15 years ago to rekindle the short-term magic created by ECW as we witness the rebirth of brutal, gruesome, hardcore wrestling. I'm not so sure about this decision. During the time when ECW, WCW, and the Attitude-Era WWE were at their peaks, television was very different. The late 90's audiences craved brutality on television. It seems as if this craving has died over time. Now TNA wishes to capitalize on it and try to bring back this format of professional wrestling.

I think that this is a bad idea. With the one-dimensional direction of Spike TV, only a male-driven audience is going to witness this rebirth. I honestly feel that the brutality of TNA's action, as of late, is going to turn off more viewers than gain them. But, that's just one man's opinion; namely my own.

How does everyone else view it? Does anyone agree with me? Disagree? If so, I want to hear good explanations. Please don't spam in here.

Guys, this thread is NOT about the EV2.0 bloodbath from last night. A thread already exists for that. This is about TNA's current direction. Stick to the topic or face possible warnings/infractions!!!​

​

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Ok, I get it. TNA wants their format to continue to evolve. They need to get an edge on the WWE and produce a product that they cannot provide the audience.

At first, they pushed the in-ring action to be superior to the WWE and they were extremely successful (and still are on many occasions).

Next, they pushed the envelope with on-screen sexuality, racy storylines and borderline-offensive language to cater to the male demographic. This was a smart play since the majority of TNA wrestling fans are men that are fans of the direction of Spike TV programming.

But now, it appears as if TNA is digging back 15 years ago to rekindle the short-term magic created by ECW as we witness the rebirth of brutal, gruesome, hardcore wrestling. I'm not so sure about this decision. During the time when ECW, WCW, and the Attitude-Era WWE were at their peaks, television was very different. The late 90's audiences craved brutality on television. It seems as if this craving has died over time. Now TNA wishes to capitalize on it and try to bring back this format of professional wrestling.

I think that this is a bad idea. With the one-dimensional direction of Spike TV, only a male-driven audience is going to witness this rebirth. I honestly feel that the brutality of TNA's action, as of late, is going to turn off more viewers than gain them. But, that's just one man's opinion; namely my own.

How does everyone else view it? Does anyone agree with me? Disagree? If so, I want to hear good explanations. Please don't spam in here.

I both agree and disagree. Let me explain...

While I agree the gratuitous violence and prominent use of blood in TNA has gone "overboard" in a sense, at least in recent years, I disagree that it's driving anyone away, as the ratings have been on the rise for weeks, not on the decline. How can rising ratings be indicative of some aspect of product failure? It's a contradiction of itself.

I was never a fan of gore personally, or gratuitous violence in any sense, despite the fact I watch professional wrestling (there's an oxymoron, if there ever was one), but I do understand the appeal it carries, and right now this EV 2.0 thing is working for TNA. As of this moment the Fortune v. EV 2.0 angle is the hottest thing in the company (sans RVD's bloodbath), and when you add to that the fact that the ratings have been rising as a result, you have to realize that blood does in fact, sell.

 

[johnbragg]

As of this moment the Fortune v. EV 2.0 angle is the hottest thing in the company (sans RVD's bloodbath), and when you add to that the fact that the ratings have been rising as a result, you have to realize that blood does in fact, sell.

Not only does blood sell, but in a weird way fans not crazy about the blood connect more to "TNA" as a result. (I watched ReACTION.) Fans who are past the ECW crap can identify with the Fortune guys who have been in TNA forever, the guys that longtime TNA fans like watching.

Sample thoughts: "TNA isn't kendo sticks and old men bleeding everywhere. TNA is Styles and Joe and Roode, and the Machine Guns and Ultimate X matches. Fuck this garbage wrestling crap, and fuck those EV2.0 guys. They bled all over, now get them out. I hope Fortune crucifies all of them. Then maybe Fortune can turn on Flair's old worn-out cornball self."

 

[Ferbian]

I never quite understood why they wanted to dig back into the whole ECW material that was going on back in the 90's.

Wrestling were good back there, on some occasions. But for the most times from what I know, it was dominated by hardcore wrestling, and not necessarily great matches. The TNA guys are available, and can put on great matches without having to focus on hardcore wrestling.

Now I get that the ECW guys are pulling in an improved rating, and they most likely will continue to. However I do not believe that it should warrant for them to become dominant in the programming. I see much more potential in the TNA guys, potential that should be capitalized on. However they won't, because TNA likes ratings obviously.

However I don't believe it will turn anyone away D. At least not for now, the ECW fans from the past are hardcore devotees, and a lot of people seemed to like the hardcore style of wrestling. So it could possibly just either keep them around, or gain more. However I don't think it's the right way for TNA to go, because the programming needs to focus on more than simply that.

And for those TNA guys that might urge to jump against me because I'm a WWE guy. However I do believe that I see the positive in what TNA wants to accomplish, and I applaud that. I just don't see it needing to become a one sided thing, the Fortune material from last night was a sign of potential, and hopefully it will phase the ECW guys just a little bit, to put a focus on those guys that actually have the potential, the TNA "originals".

 

[Schizophrenic]

I don't really see this as the rebirth of "blood and guts". Alot of people saw ECW as just that and with the current angle of TNA vs EV2.0 see what happened last night as a way to show that "anyone could do what they did (and in the case of Fortune) could do it better. With this feud I do see a few matches involving bloodshed and sometime a bit too much but it's trying to enhance the visual effect (whether a handful of fans like it or not). Honestly big brawls that involve weapons and draw no blood but a little scrape on the arm kind o take me out of the realism. Now should every member of EV2.0 and Fortune be covered in blood? No. But is ther room for a little of the red stuff here and there? Yeah. I thnk you will find more of a trade off in the matches where there is hardcore and some blood and other matches where there will be none. But I do not believe that TNA are going to redirect their ways to go with the idea of blood in every match (unless it's accidental). I don't see most of the TNA guys willing to blade that often anyway.

 

[DRANGOKANE]

I ENJOYED LAST NIGHT'S SHOW. I THOUGHT THE TAG MATCH WAS GREAT,WHEN DID HACKSAW JIM DUGGAN BECOME A HIGHFLYER? THE MAIN EVENT WAS O.K. IT SEEMED LIKE IT WAS TONED DOWN FOR T.V. I COULD TELL ABYSS WOULD BE THE ONE TO TAKE THE BUMPS WITH THE TACKS AND THE BARBED WIRE BOARD. I'M NOT MUCH OF A HARDCORE FAN BECAUSE YOU NEED TO SUSPEND BELIEF IN REALITY TOO MUCH.ALL THAT BLOOD ON RVD AND NO VISIBLE WOUND STILL BLEEDING. IT LOOKED LIKE THE BLOOD WAS SPLASHED ON HIM. AND IN REALITY WE WOULD BE READING AOUT ABYSS BEING ARRESTED IF HE HIT RVD WITH JANIS. HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE OTHERWISE.

 

[Bobby B]

I was watching The Rise and Fall of ECW DVD the other day, and I remember a line from Eric Bischoff saying (words to the effect of) that Hardcore wrestling will only ever appeal to a small, niche audience, and will never work on a national scale.

Isn't it weird that appears to be exactly the direction that TNA is going in now under Bischoff's stewardship...

Short term this makes sense, but as TNA have proved in the past, they have no real problem getting people through the door, but struggle greatly trying to keep them there.

 

[dwith]

I believe the whole point of the EV 2.0 right now is strictly to get FORTUNE over as the baddest, and toughest stable of wrestler's out there in the wrestling world. Last night's beat down of the old ECW guy's made FORTUNE look incredibly strong as a team. The blood and the gore was necessary to show that FORTUNE mean's business, and will stop at nothing to be the very best. Do I personally think that there was to much blood last night at the end of IMPACT. not at all. Itw as necessary for the storyline to further itself. I do not want blood in every match on IMPACT, only the ones that warrant it. Mostly the hardcore matches. I think it's going to be a great fued for the next month or so, and FORTUNE will reap the benefit's when it's over, and of course TNA.

 

[shankit231]

See TNA would be alright if they just did there own thing. They keep trying to live in the past I mean The Band(Nwo Black and White), Kevin Nash and Sting are doing the wolfpac, Sting vs. Hogan, ECW.

We seen all that in the past most of those people have moved on from watching wrestling so they are only going to be able to draw a small crowd of people who used to watch wrestling in the past. They mainly need to find a way to attract new wrestling fans and also find a way to pull fans from WWE.

Plus it might help them if they also start completing storyline, its hard to attract people who tune in next week and see a whole different storyline and the constant face and heel turns.

 

[dwith]

See TNA would be alright if they just did there own thing. They keep trying to live in the past I mean The Band(Nwo Black and White), Kevin Nash and Sting are doing the wolfpac, Sting vs. Hogan, ECW.

We seen all that in the past most of those people have moved on from watching wrestling so they are only going to be able to draw a small crowd of people who used to watch wrestling in the past. They mainly need to find a way to attract new wrestling fans and also find a way to pull fans from WWE.

Plus it might help them if they also start completing storyline, its hard to attract people who tune in next week and see a whole different storyline and the constant face and heel turns.

Tna has these storylines to bring in people who normally don't watch TNA, and to hope the keep those fan's to raise rating's(in which it is working). Just because TNA circulates old idea's and makes them usable again I don't see as a bad thing. WWE has done it themselves. When theirs been 20 years of televised wrestling your bound to have a old storyline reborn, and hopefully breathe life back into other storylines, and wrestler's. I like the new STING, and NASH pairing. It has some Nastalgia, but it still interesting. No need to dwell on why TNA or WWE rehash old storylines, if it work's for rating then so be it.

 

[FightOwensFight]

I agree with IDR on this one. While I think TNA tends too go to far and whenever blood is involved someone ends up with the "crimson mask" I do think it is necessary to some extent, but only when the psychology of the story warrants it.

As example I use the storyline involving Randy Orton and HHH a couple years ago. It was incredibly personal with Orton attacking HHH's wife and in-laws. If there was ever a storyline that should have resulted in a bloody battle to end it that would qualify. But, in the PG WWE they wouldn't allow it and the ending was just very flat. You could also use any of the WWE "extreme" themed PPV's (Hell in a Cell, Elimination Chamber, etc) as examples of where blood would add to the affect.

In TNA, in attempting to provide the alternative to WWE they can sometimes go a bit too far. Is seems recently you are almost guaranteed to have someone bleed each week. In my opinion that just lessens the impact when it could really matter, where a score really needs to be settled.

I see the purpose of it for the whole Fortune vs EV2 storyline and it did make a statement, but I think TNA is walking that line between using blood and extra violence to enhance/add to a storyline and just having the show be a bunch of hardcore spotfests with blood all over the place.

The ratings are indeed going up so it is working in the short-term, I just don't think it can last long-term.

 

[super_crazy]

I enjoy hardcore wrestling, but to a point. Out of common sence I don't like seeing guys get hit with unprotected chair shots to the head or thrown onto glass or whatever and last night TNA has lots of this kind of stuff.

Having said that, I was pretty appalled at the violence last night. James Storm was cutting people with a razor blade, I don't want to see that! I know they cut themselves to bleed but when I watch wrestling I don't want to see one guy slicing open another guy with a knife. That's not wrestling that's disgusting. And I've never liked this "Janis" bit from the start. A piece of wood with nails through it is incredibly dangerous and all it takes is one screw up for someone to really get hurt or even killed. Then they had this angle with RVD where he was bleeding everywhere and Abyss is standing there holding "Janis" with blood on it, and Mike Tenay asks "Is this going to affect the world champions title reign?" What kind of stupid ass question is that. If someone ACTUALLY got hit with a board like that, they would likely die shortly after, or be hospitalized for a really long time. So, so far it's completely non-logical and due to the excess amount of 'blood' it was quite disgusting.

Personally I did not enjoy it at all.

 

[vampireblade]

Ok first off huge TNA fan have been for 8 years since they first begun now ive bben watching wrestling for about 15 years im 21 years old i barely remember a group of misfits who were cool 15 years ago but thats the thing they were cool 15 years ago. TNA wrestling is something i enjoy very much because i appricate a good wrestling match such as that best of 5 series between the moor city machine guns and beer money their two out of three falls match was amazing the match betweeen anglina love and velvet sky was good because it showed that women can get out there and kick each others asses plus who doesnt like to see to very hot women fight but i digress Tna put on an amazing show last nite it enen had just the right amount of blood until ev2.0 came out then it went to crap i wanna see young guys like styles kaz beer money MCMG pope even kenndy and hardy because all these guys are the future of wrestling but if they want to keep ev2.0 around do so to get the younger guys over dont turn ur entire show into a blood bath just because 10 guys did it years ago in a bingo hall stick with what got u here in the 1st place good wrestling matches

 

[neildittmar]

This hardcore / EV2.0 thing works on so many levels it's not even funny. Initially it brings in fans that would otherwise not watch, as evidenced by the steady increase in ratings since the angle begun.

Going forward, it caters to folks like me who hold the original ECW very near and dear to their hearts. I thought HardCORE Justice was a fantastic show and did encapsulate what the original promotion was all about. I marked out heavily for the Gangstas, Dreamer vs. Raven, RVD vs. Sabu, and all the other ECW-like hijinx that went on during that show. Violence was necessary on that show because it was a primary aspect of an authentic ECW product.

But what about the folks who don't like the hardcore, brutal stuff? The ultra-violent angle works here too. AJ, Kaz, Beer Money, and others are asking the same question much of the IWC is... why bring these old guys in? Why throw the homegrown talent under the bus for a bunch of relics that bled gallons in front of 40 people a night in bingo halls, VFW's, and high school gymnasiums? Last night, they showed that they weren't going to take it anymore. What better way to make a stand than to beat those old, washed up, no talent ECW guys at their own game? Fourtune and others effectively "raised the bar" in being more violent, more destructive, and dare I say... more "hardcore."

And then there's the outliers... Hardy seems to be with the EV2 guys, but Angle isn't. Some of the other folks are in the middle. Some haven't made any comment whatsoever. Dixie Carter seems to be in the corner of Dreamer and Company. When push comes to shove, where do Hogan and Bischoff stand? Add in the Wolfpac seemingly coming back together again and there's a lot of different ways this storyline could go.

I was a little shocked at some of the antics going on during the brawl at the end of iMPACT, but it was absolutely necessary to get the point across. How do you make an iMPACT (pun intended) against guys that made a career out of being wrapped in barbed wire, put through flaming tables, and falling off of balconies? AJ hitting the Styles Clash and Beer Money dropping Sabu with a DUI just wouldn't have done the job.

 

[The Holy One]

Now if this storyline which I love by the way continues to be run as long as the MEM did then I can see viewers start turning away from TNA. However, if it's only for a couple of months and does its job to help Fortune get over then I have no problem seeing the violence of ECW past every now and then. Now if the bloodshedding happens to take up a large part of the show then I would definitely would turn away b/c I'm not big on extreme violence. I believe the only time that type violence should be involved is when a long, intense fued. I don't think we should or will see what happened at the end of iMPACT too often however.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

Total Gruesome Brutality.... That was the last segment of TNA last night, and I really thought steel chairs would of been more of an impact, then a guy cutting people with Razor Blades, and RVD laying in corn syrup.

I think stuff like that, really takes the company down a step or two. It really kills the realism that was being pushed. I mean yes, this a staged event, but when the owner of the company is there, and she witnesses the aftermath of brutal beat down of her champion... Wouldn't you fire someone on the spot? Are they at least going to play with that angle?

Then the whole Fortune thing did make them look like bad-asses, but I was also confused. You have Beer Money that lost their title match. You have Styles that just lost to angle, and they were good matches, then lights go out, and mayhem ensues. What the hell?!?!?

I don't know how much more pushing a Ric Flair stable needs. The last 2 he was in, did a lot for professional wrestling. Hell I'm confused why Flair is there. On-screen both Bischoff and Hogan don't like him, yet he has a job at a company you run? Another confusing storyline.

But, my main point in here is, The blood was fun for a moment, but the story behind it was pretty shabby. I don't think it does TNA any good.

 

[DRANGOKANE]

ECW WAS A COMPANY FOR ABOUT 5 YEARS AND WAS ON NATIONAL T.V. FOR ONLY 1 YEAR AND IT WAS HARD TO FIND. ITWAS ON AT LIKE MIDNIGHT OR 1AM FRIDAYS ON TNN.NOW I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH TNA USING GUYS FROM WWE,ECW,ETC. BUT AFTER 8 YEARS THEY NEED TO FIND AN IDENTITY AS A COMPANY. REHASHING STORYLINES IS ONE THING, BUT USING SOMETHING THAT FAILED,AND THEN WASN'T VERY POPULAR A SECOND TIME DOESN'T SEEM SMART.TNA HAS GOOD WRESTLING TALENT, LAT THEM WRESTLE,LOVE OR HATE THEM THEY HAVE TWO OF THE BEST PROMO GUYS ALIVE IN FLAIR AND HOGAN.THERE IS SO MUCH THEY COULD DO WITHOUT NEEDING TO START A BLOODBATH.

 

[Judah's Lion]

i'm gonna have to side a bit more with IDR and Evolution RKO on this one. with WWE being in a PG Era, it makes sense for TNA to offer an alternative with more sex, violence, swearing, etc.

sometimes, when done too often or too "extreme", no pun intended, it can actually take away from the effect because it then becomes overboard and regular, almost de-sensitizing the audience to expect this kind of thing and to take away from what makes it special in the first place.

i like both the WWE and TNA for what they provide. i think that if TNA can focus on the fact that they do offer an alternative and don't let it get out of hand, they will have a very solid product to offer that will continue to attract either a different audience or even the same WWE audience that would like to watch wrestling on Thursday nights as well.

like most things in life, too much of a good thing can get old or bad or stale quickly. but i'm not gonna knock on the blood just yet. it's not like there's blood every week in every match. when it gets to that point, which i doubt it ever will, then i'll knock it. in the meantime, i'm just gonna enjoy the alternative and appreciate the matches and the talents and storylines that are obviously and clearly attracting higher ratings.

good thread and topic.

 

[shattered dreams]

For starters I find it amusing that apparently some have re-written history so that ECW is the only promotion that used gratuitous violence to sell their product during the 90s into the early 2000s. If the WWF did not use hardcore wrestling to sell anything during that time then I must have doubled up on crazy pills today.

Anyway on the issue at hand, if they were only doing hardcore wrestling then it would fail long-term but look at last night. It was one crazy hardcore segment surrounded by other stuff that was not. That is not going to drive people away. At least enough to make a big issue. TNA is actually seeking a niche audience of sorts anyway which is why this does work. I actually found this extreme hardcore element shocking because of how *****fied Greatly wrestling has become in general. Just like when edgy stuff was taking off back then it was successful because it is something people were not used to seeing. I think this RVD bloodbath was the moment they have been looking for. The moment that the people in the niche that like the edgy product, in a time when everything is for kids, take notice. The Abyss angle is different than simply hardcore spotfests anyway. Here is a guy who is a monster taking on the role of a legit attempted manslaughterer. Tapping into the horror movie demographic is a nice idea.

 

[naimliss]

well first off wrestling has always rehashed old story lines so stop complaining at what tna is doing, ecw, wwe and wcw all used to do it. it's freaking kayfabe wrestling, get over it.

now honestly, I loved last nights angle. they've been building up to this for months and it finally paid off. for the first time in over 5 years, I actually was blown away with what I saw. they made fortune look bad ass! I felt sorry for ev2.o, I really did but at the same time I was glad it happened. The blood made it 100x better. For fortune to get over as a major stable, I think the blood showed people that fortune mean business. I like the fact that tna is the opposite of wwe, sure I still like wwe but I like tna better by the fact that they do bleed, they are hardcore and put on great matches. the guns match last night was on of the best matches i've seen in a long time. I personally like where tna is going. YODEL

 

[shogunsrampage]

well for starts some things i noticed... alot of people are saying fourtune vs ev2.0..... if u watched reaction the direction is looking like its not fourtune vs ev2.0 ..... its tna originals vs guys who are coming in and getting the spotlight. reaction highlight kaz and aj talking and they clearly said they were "they" were tired of these guys coming in taking there positions holding them down... this also explains why doug williams and morgan were there as well.

as far as the blood...it wont drive away an audience...your talking about a channel that highlights gore movies and mma...they put on bj penn vs joe stevenson on reguarly and this is by far worse blood bath then what eve seen on tna.....

 

[Captain Jive]

I think that the blood and hardcore stuff will stick around as long as the EV2 angle is going on. ECW was WAY more than just hardcore, but its what is remembered most. If they dont go overboard with it, then I don't mind it.

What I love about this angle is that if you're a fan of wrestling and not so much hardcore, you can cheer for Fortune, and vise versa. Its made so that every fan can enjoy. Its got technical, high flying, big guys, hardcore, legends, it has wrestlers that can cover anything.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I think Kurt Angle said it best on the TNA ReAction show last night. The EV 2.0 faction is good for the short term, but not good for the long term. The TNA originals and groups like Fortune should be the focus of TNA for the long term. I think this is a good idea to not only bring in that old audience, but to also elevate the TNA talent. Fortune was going nowhere before and now with an actual feud they have a purpose.

The ratings have risen in the 12-17 male demographic, but they haven't raised that much in the 18-49 male demographic. I do believe that TNA can go a little overboard with the blood, but this angle is good for the time being. As long as it benefits the TNA guys more than the former ECW guys it will be good. Then TNA can focus their product solely around the TNA guys again.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

For the most part, I agree with Kenny. I didn't watch ReAction last night, but Angle's comments about EV2.0 being good for the short term rather than the long term strikes me as very true. In to sustain and maintain interest in the long run, TNA is eventually going to have to be primarily about TNA.

The concept of wrestlers cutting is something that works, but only under the right circumstances in my opinion. Some fans love the idea of blood anytime and anywhere, but I think the novelty of blood loses that novelty if you use it too often. Hardcore matches are matches that can be fun to do every now and again, but TNA generally likes to employ gimmick matches too casually. On iMPACT!, it's not uncommon to see something along the lines of a "street fight" or a falls count anywhere match or generally any sort of match with "hardcore" implications that last less than 5 minutes. Blood and "hardcore" can work, but not on a regular basis, at least not with me. Last night's episode of TNA iMPACT! wasn't your "average" show. So, if someone watched iMPACT! for the first time last night and is, more or less, expecting the same thing week in and week out, then they're going to be disappointed. Some will stay but some probably won't.

 

[gbaby_steve25]

OK ok ok.... 50 percent hate the blood 50 percent like it.... so heres whats gonna happen: the people who hate the blood bath and say they wont watch anymore, are gonna watch to see what happens next, and the people who love it are gonna watch to see what happens. The ones in the middle who dont care about the blood bath are gonna watch too.....WHY???? Because its actually a pretty damn good story line building here. I mean think about it (as mentioned earlier) you have the ev2 guys w/ dixie, rvd, jeff hardy, possibly moore, kennedy, and the pope going againsts fotune, abyss, morgan, magnus, angle, sting, nash, joe maybe when he is back... i mean thats a huge story line.... and obviously the ev2 guys are not going to be around for a long period of time.... and i mean this is something that has been brewing for months now. all the blood shed was totally worth it though because, for as long as i can remember wrestling was never about reality, it was about ratings and entertainment.... everyone is complaining about too much blood in tna now, but yet these are the same people complaining theres no blood in wwe.... choose a damn side, wholy phuck. i mean your either for it or against it either way decide. theres never gonna be a median in this day in age. i mean cant anyone recall sting vs vampiro back at halloween havoc. that was a a bloody violent mess.

now if the huge amounts of blood goes on for more than a couple weeks ill get irritated but i wont turn off the program or not watch simply because the story line itself is worth it. blood doesnt make or break a company, the stories behind it all do!