TNA should look back at WWE when they moved past WCW
- Thread starter waylonmercy
- Start date
FitFinlay4Life
What's the craic?
Cheex? ECW provided the ammunition for the Attitude era that helped turn the Monday Night Wars in WWe's favor and ultimately ran WCW into the ground because they could not master their style. Their influence on wrestling is undisputed (by anyone with a brain).
oldschool123
Pre-Show Stalwart
Never any good to start with?
are you talking about? The One Night Stand PPVs, The Rise And Fall Of ECW DVD, WWe starting up a third brand purely on the success of the PPVs, the amount of ECW guys signed by the big two when ECW was in business - any of this mean anything to you?
What did any of the EV2 guys ever accomplish?
Even if one or two of them were good 10 years ago they're still a bunch of washed up guys but then again thats what TNA is best at.
FitFinlay4Life
What's the craic?
The older members of EV2.0 are about the Undertaker's age, most are younger than HHH. Had it not been for these guys and the mad genius Heyman, WWe would be outta business - because it was the ECW influenced Attitude era that defeated WCW. You quoted my last post but did you bloody read it - the man that most regard as the Godfather, Vincent Kennedy McMahon, regarded their accomplishments that highly that he put his money behind the One Night Stands, the DVDs, the books, the third brand!
This is a way for a PA based legendary organisation to pass the torch to an up and coming FL based organisation and provided it is not stretched out, I for one applaud them - if it is and the product suffers, I have no problem in saying enough is enough. Lance Storm, who is no fan of TNA, suggested basically this storyline as a logical conclusion - and yes, I do believe he was being serious for a minute.
World_Series_Attiude
Occasional Pre-Show
I think we can all agree that whats holding back TNA is it's lack of orginality, most of the story lines seems recycled from past story lines and what makes it so bad is that the majority of the time it's an old WWE story line !
TNA needs shock, they can do this without bring in big names let me give you an example...Dixie Carter posing for playboy magazine ! BOOM problem solved
TNA needs shock, they can do this without bring in big names let me give you an example...Dixie Carter posing for playboy magazine ! BOOM problem solved
Schizophrenic
iMPACT! Player From The Start
What I find ammusing that when WWE relied on ECW to get some money and viewers no one complained, however if TNA does it, then god forbidit be the least bit entertaining. I swear most fans do not know what they want or are too damn loyal to the brand to even admit when something is good from someone else.
FitFinlay4Life
What's the craic?
Agreed, an RoH 'invasion' would've been better, but I'm still enjoying the current EV2.0 and if it puts over the homegrown talent - result. But as far as Playboy - no offense to Dixie but I'm sure most would prefer Velvet, Lacey or Daphne... is that a wee MILF crush kid?
A ROH invasion may be a good idea in theory; but besides maybe 1 percent of wrestling fans, who would know who any of those guys are. I don't have HD Net, so I haven't seen any episodes. The only thing I'm familiar with ROH is the match at the end of the movie The Wrestler. Where Randy The Ram took on Earnest The Fat Miller.
you cant really talk about TNA and honesty anymore seeing to how they had dreamer tell a sob story and say that its not about an invasion then TNA sees a loophole and has fortune invade ev2 TNA isnt really going in a good direction anymore, the talent is still good but i dont like whats happening beyond the ropes. and cmon guys isnt this a TNA thread? lets talk TNA and leave the WWE out of this convo.
californiachef84
Pre-Show Stalwart
Are you high or just stupid??? TNA's stars aren't good enough to compete on a Raw main event... Yeah, right buddy... Ric Flair is just a loser, right? So are Kurt Angle, and Jeff Hardy??? Sting is definately not a main event player, right??? Sting was HIGHLY sought after by Vince McMahon, but Sting turned down the WWE and signed with TNA... How many times did Kevin Nash win the WWF title??? Just another loser, right??? What about the MOST EASILY RECOGNIZABLE FACE IN THE HISTORY OF PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING??? Hogan is just a loser too, right buddy???
My favorite part about your blighted and ******ed world view is "WWE builds their stars in 3-6 months, why can't TNA???"
The WWE CAN PUSH WHOEVER THEY WANT TO BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FRICKEN' WWE!!! It is not rocket science people!!! They have the fanbase, the WWE machine... WWE has the luxury of being able to dictate who will be the stars and who won't be... When people think of Professional wrestling, they think of the WWE... That is why they can make "stars" so quickly... They have everyone's attention on them... TNA is relatively unknown outside of the IWC... So how the hell could they push their own talent like Joe or AJ when no one even knows that they exist??? Guys like Sting and Angle have helped get more exposure for TNA... Remember, TNA didn't even get a TV deal until they signed Sting... Without Sting TNA may have never gotten on TV...
FitFinlay4Life
What's the craic?
I think the casual fan is done a disservice at times - RoH is the king of the indies and whilst many people might not have seen much of their stuff, they would be aware of the name (plus Michael Cole is bound to have gotten them many looks on youtube with his DBD vendetta
).RoH is full of young, hungry and diverse squad with many links to TNA that could see many swerves in a lengthy feud. It is well thought of in it's local area, which provides TNA with more venues and takes away from the 'can only put on shows in FL' feel.
I realise that with Cornette in RoH and Russo in TNA that this is has (to quote a certain evil genius) 'no chance in hell' at present. However, given that ECW and RoH share a geography and fanbase, I would imagine that many RoH fans might be watching TNA at present. So, I still hold hope that this could come about - I only see it as beneficial for both companies.
waylonmercy
In Waylon Mercy's Hands
I am not personally attacking you on this but I don't agree with you. You don't NEED over the hill washed up talent to bring in fans. I am sure if you cut the fattiest fat (the stars over 45 years old) you trim so much salary being WASTED. Bischoff/Hogan/Sting/Flair/Foley/Nash are not increasing the ratings whatsoever. They are NOT entertaining in their capacity. Hogan can't wrestle, Bischoff isn't the genius he believes he is, Foley can't work and isn't going to work like he did 15 years ago, Kevin Nash hasn't been passable in the ring for over 10 years and has GREY HAIR! and Ric Flair is RETIRED! It is almost insulting to watch a guy who agrees to a retirement angle in WWE, has a last run, loses at WM to a man who worships the ground he walks on, gets a GRAND retirement celebration the next night and then you see him wrestling in TNA.
When you are spending so much money on them I can't imagine any of them working for the money they feel they are worth. They are not desparate for cash. The thing about them all is that they are NOT interesting to watch becuase partially they aren't booked that way and TNA isn't coming out with good storylines that draw interest. They would be so much better off investing that money in young talent for the future, better writing for the present and signing WWE talent like Morgan and the Pope who were trained by WWE and are not over the hill. They are fresh and they just like the wrestlers I mentioned earlier are getting their BIG break. Its all about talent who they can build upon and build up. The buy low and sell high theory of talent. Like I said before all I am saying is that TNA should try the formula that WWE used to become successful which was developing their own talent instead of buying established talent from WWE that already had their big run.
Well, hold on now. In the late 90's the WWE used a lot of talent that came over from WCW- Vader, Pillman, Mick Foley and Steve Austin, to name a few. They didn't exclusively use WCW rejects, before anyone attempts to claim I'm saying that, but they used several castoffs and turned them into huge stars. Seriously- could anyone in 1994 have pictured Cactus Jack as a future multi-time world champion? (Austin, yes. He had "it", and WCW couldn't figure out what to do with him.)
Some of the ex-WWE guys, like Kurt Angle, still have a lot to offer; in fact, all four men in the title tournament (excuse me one second- still vomiting with depression over how poorly the world title scene is being booked) are former WWE guys. (Which is probably a mistake, but Pope was a nobody in WWE at least.) TNA needs a lot of things to pull themselves out of their current fugue, and a combination of familiar faces and homegrown talent is something they'll need to attract fans that aren't currently watching TNA.
oldschool123
Pre-Show Stalwart
I find this statement hilarious because everyone who isn't "too damn loyal to the brand" can see that TNA is a trainwreck right now.
Its sad too because I actually liked TNA for a while but now instead of being who they are which I think people liked as an alternative to WWE which has it's flaws they are trying to:
a.) be the exact opposite of WWE- As an example WWE is now PG so TNA insists on every show being a blood bath.
and
b.)be who they think people want them to be.
As far as I'm concerned the only positive things that have happened to TNA since Hogan and Easy E came along was getting rid of the 6-sided ring and getting rid of the dual entrances.
The whole "recycled storyline" stuff is garbage. All angles get re-used in some capacity in both WWE and TNA all the time. The "buying stars" argument is null too. Both companies have done this and continue to do this and always will do this. Wrestlers change companies, it happens.
And in regards to the OP, regardless of if they are TNA originals or "bought stars" as you like to call them, I would say guys like AJ, Kurt, Joe, Anderson, Hardy, Pope, Beer Money, and MCMG have been built up pretty well and are the definition of "stars". But hell, what do I know?
And in regards to the OP, regardless of if they are TNA originals or "bought stars" as you like to call them, I would say guys like AJ, Kurt, Joe, Anderson, Hardy, Pope, Beer Money, and MCMG have been built up pretty well and are the definition of "stars". But hell, what do I know?
The more I read all over the Internet, the more I see that it really is no use for TNA.
They're either the WWE wannabe with washed up stars that no one wants to see, because they're not in WWE anymore, because WWE is all that matters.
Or they're the company that is just filled with a bunch of flippy no-names that don't draw, so BOOOOO for not drawing! And WWE is all that matters.
TNA is not EVER going to be become a big national entity, or a mainstream entity. It's just never going to happen. WWE has had nearly a decade to train and reprogram casual fans and the mainstream media, and....it's worked.
The best thing TNA can do is maintain their current audience, because they're not going to get anymore. The remaining people that aren't watching WON'T watch them.
They need to focus on keeping their 1.1 happy.
They're either the WWE wannabe with washed up stars that no one wants to see, because they're not in WWE anymore, because WWE is all that matters.
Or they're the company that is just filled with a bunch of flippy no-names that don't draw, so BOOOOO for not drawing! And WWE is all that matters.
TNA is not EVER going to be become a big national entity, or a mainstream entity. It's just never going to happen. WWE has had nearly a decade to train and reprogram casual fans and the mainstream media, and....it's worked.
The best thing TNA can do is maintain their current audience, because they're not going to get anymore. The remaining people that aren't watching WON'T watch them.
They need to focus on keeping their 1.1 happy.
TNA can still do better than the 1.1-1.2 they've been hitting lately. The problem isn't their talent, their problem is that they aren't delivering anything fans want to see. TNA keeps hot shotting big events, but there's no gradual payoff. Hey, suddenly, Hulk Hogan's hear! Hey, guess what- RVD's here, but we'll have him be the second man to Hogan! I know- it's time for an ECW reunion! That's a surefire way to build interest over the long term in our product!
TNA isn't giving fans a reason to get invested in their product. This EV2.0 thing will not last. Fortune is at best a Four Horsemen ripoff, and at worst a career massacre of four guys who should be working matches against each other, instead of eventually going over some soberingly old looking bingo hall wrestlers from the 90's. Do I give a shit if AJ Styles goes over Tommy Dreamer? I'm still wondering what they were doing in the ring together.
There's no build for the next few months. They just write poorly; none of their writers seem to ask "how does this storyline set up my writing in three and six months?" It's just a series of sudden events, with Dixie Carter going to Twitter time and time again to promise us there's something big just around the corner if we'd just keep watching.
If TNA wants to turn a 1.5 next month, well, maybe they could give Macho Man enough money to convince him to stagger back into the limelight. Otherwise, they aren't getting it. But they could have a 1.5 in December if they'd just plan for it now.