TNA Hartford, Round 3, Match 1: #4 Triple H vs. #13 Tom Billington

[Tastycles]

Name one light heavyweight who was a heavyweight champion in the 1980s. There isn't one. Dynamite Kid acheived everything he could, singles competition wise for the era including numerous light heavyweight title reigns all over the world.

He is completely comparable to Benoit. The only thing that got Benoit his success was his in ring ability. It certainly wasn't his charisma, which was completely non-existant. The only difference being Benoit existed in a time when guys like that could be world champs. Benoit was the best technical wrestler of his era and he beat HHH. Dynamite Kid was the best technical wrestler of his era, and arguably any era, so by putting those two facts together, I see Dynamite Kid winning.

 

[Big Sexy]

Name one light heavyweight who was a heavyweight champion in the 1980s.

First of all I wouldn't call him a lightweight. He was around 230 pounds. Secondly Ron Garvin won the NWA title and he was the exact same size as Billington. Ricky Steamboat was the same weight and only 2 inches taller and he won the NWA title. Bob Backlund only had a few inches on Billington and he won the WWE title. And Billington never won any mid card titles either so it's not just heavyweight titles.

Dynamite Kid acheived everything he could, singles competition wise for the era including numerous light heavyweight title reigns all over the world.

Bullshit. With the exception of Canada he did jack shit anywhere else. He had ONE singles title reign in Japan and one tag title reign in Japan. Then in the U.S. he had won tag title reign in the WWE.

 

[Loveless]

English guys don't win shit in the US, or anywhere else for that matter. He could have been the greatest wrestler ever (as Bret says he is) and he still wouldn't have been booked to win anything. Billington is a victim or circumstance, along with his attitude which held him back.

 

[BooCocky]

Alright, I am not a HHH fan but using the bosses daughter excuse is completely bullshit. HHH accomplished a lot before Stephanie arrived on the scene. During HHH's career he has beaten Stone Cold, The Rock and many more. Face it, he has beaten the best. I also believe Trips' best work is working as a heel, so who is to say he won't cheat? I won't. Billington had the chance to be great, but he fucked it up. Give me what HHH accomplished over Billington anyday of the week. BTW, the TNA ring is an unfair advantage to both. So I think HHH's experience in big matches prevails. He hits the pedigree and he wins.

 

[Shocky]

I'm on the fence on this one as well. Now I'm eager to vote Triple H out of this thing as much as the next guy, but I won't do it without proper reasoning. Tom Billington is certainly a wrestler capable of knocking Triple H out of thing, especially given it's a six sided ring.

Triple H would absolutely get killed by Dynamite post 2002. Triple H had two solid years, 1999-2001, everythign else, he's sucked ass in the ring. Triple H has had troubles with guys like Angle and Benoit, and essentially Billington is a combo of both of those men. Billington has all of the intensity of a Benoit, but nearly all of the technical attributes of a Kurt Angle.

And for anyone to just dismiss Billington, a guy that has been called the best wrestler poiund for pound in the business by multiple wrestlers, simply allows the WWE to pick and choose who they should watch. Billington didn't have the singles success in the WWE, whoopdy fucking doo. The WWE isn't the end all be all of werstling, in fact, It's not that great. The WWE and Vince Mcmahon have never given the light heavyweights a fair shot in their company. Billington has had success everywhere he has gone not named the WWE. So what do I do, do I take the guys success EVERYWHERE in the world, or do I base his success on what he did in the WWE, a company notorious for not properly booking anyone under 225lbs. Fortunately for me, I don't let McMahon decide whose a good wrestler for me based on what he feels is a good wrestler.

That all being said, I'm still on the fence, because Triple H in those two years was as solid as they come, an dthis is coming from probably the boards biggest Triple H Basher. It's just a shame that so many people seem to dictate someones success based on what they did for Vince McMahon. Newsflash people, there is wrestling that doesn't come from Titan Towers.

 

[Loveless]

I would say HHH 1999-2001 is his best period but even then, when he was lighter and quicker, he still wasn't quicker than Billington and he certainly wasn't as strong back then.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

As far as Brock Lariats video. Billington was on the verge of retiring at that point I believe. And HHH isn't in the same league as Stan Hansen.

You're right...he's not. But this isn't a Stan Hansen's better than HHH issue, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm just saying Dynamite's the same size he was during that match. HHH is more agile and quicker than Hansen, which can give Dynamite fits.

 

[Loveless]

What I meant was Billington was broken down and really didn't compare to his best days in any way. I think HHH is also a lot easier to physically manage than Stan Hansen.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

The mere thought that Tom Billington could go over Triple H is a travesty and shows how "smarky" people can be in this tournament. Let's take a look at their resumes:


Tom Billington

* All Japan Pro Wrestling

* AJPW All Asia Tag Team Championship (1 time) - with Johnny Smith

* Joint Promotions

* British Welterweight Championship (1 time)
* British Lightweight Championship (1 time)
* European Welterweight Championship (1 time)

* New Japan Pro Wrestling

* WWF Junior Heavyweight Championship (1 time)

* Pacific Northwest Wrestling

* NWA Pacific Northwest Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
* NWA Pacific Northwest Tag Team Championship (1 time) - with The Assassin

* Pro Wrestling Illustrated

* PWI ranked him # 5 of the 100 best tag teams of the "PWI Years" with Davey Boy Smith in 2003.

* Stampede Wrestling

* NWA International Tag Team Championship (Calgary version) (4 times) with - Sekigawa (1), Loch Ness Monster (1), Kasavudo (1), and Duke Myers (1)
* Stampede British Commonwealth Mid-Heavyweight Championship (5 times)
* Stampede International Tag Team Championship (2 times) - with Davey Boy Smith
* Stampede North American Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
* Stampede World Mid-Heavyweight Championship (4 times)[6]
* Stampede Wrestling Hall of Fame[7]

* World Wrestling Federation

* WWF Tag Team Championship (1 time) - with Davey Boy Smith

* Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards

* 5 Star Match (1983) vs. Tiger Mask I on 23 April
* Best Flying Wrestler (1984)
* Best Technical Wrestler (1984) - tied with Masa Saito
* Best Wrestling Maneuver (1984) Power clean dropkick
* Match of the Year (1982) vs. Satoru Sayama on 5 August, Tokyo, Japan
* Most Underrated (1983)
* Tag Team of The Year (1985) - with Davey Boy Smith
* Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame (Class of 1996)

Triple H

* Independent Wrestling Federation
o IWF Heavyweight Championship (1 time)[1]

* Pro Wrestling Illustrated
o PWI Feud of the Year (2000)[95] vs. Kurt Angle
o PWI Feud of the Year (2004)[95] vs. Chris Benoit
o PWI Match of the Year (2004)[96] vs. Shawn Michaels and Chris Benoit at WrestleMania
o PWI Most Hated Wrestler of the Year (2003–2005)[97]
o PWI ranked him # 1 of the top 500 singles wrestlers in the PWI 500 in 2000[98]
o PWI Wrestler of the Year (2008)

* World Wrestling Federation / World Wrestling Entertainment
o WWF/E Championship (8 times)[99]
o WWF European Championship (2 times)[100]
o WWF/E Intercontinental Championship (5 times)[101]
o WWF Tag Team Championship (1 time) – with Stone Cold Steve Austin[102]
o World Heavyweight Championship (5 times)[103]
o King of the Ring (1997)[3]
o Royal Rumble (2002)[104]
o Second Grand Slam Championship
o Slammy Award for Best Hair (1997)
o Seventh Triple Crown Champion

* Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards
o Feud of the Year (2000) vs. Mick Foley
o Feud of the Year (2004) vs. Shawn Michaels and Chris Benoit
o Feud of the Year (2005) vs. Batista
o Most Overrated (2002–2004)
o Readers' Least Favorite Wrestler (2002, 2003)
o Worst Feud of the Year (2002) vs. Kane
o Worst Feud of the Year (2006) with Shawn Michaels vs. Shane and Vince McMahon
o Worst Worked Match of the Year (2003) vs. Scott Steiner at No Way Out
o Worst Worked Match of the Year (2008) vs. Vladimir Kozlov and Edge at Survivor Series
o Wrestler of the Year (2000)
o Wrestling Observer Newsletter Hall of Fame (Class of 2005)

Comparing the two, you'll see that Triple H has a wealth of World Championships in the biggest company in the wrestling world, whereas Dynamite merely has one tag team championship in that company, as well as some singles titles scattered amongst Japanese and smaller North American promotions. Triple H has competed in a World Championship main event at Wrestlemania 8 times. Dynamite merely competed at Wrestlemania twice.

Tom has been to the show, and his attitude and personal problems got the best of him. Trips has been THE show for close to a decade now, and it doesn't appear that he is going to be going away any time soon.

Look at the resumes and one shall conclude that Triple H wins in a landslide.

 

[Loveless]

Shock Lesnar pre-empted your post and any argument you had

And for anyone to just dismiss Billington, a guy that has been called the best wrestler poiund for pound in the business by multiple wrestlers, simply allows the WWE to pick and choose who they should watch. Billington didn't have the singles success in the WWE, whoopdy fucking doo. The WWE isn't the end all be all of werstling, in fact, It's not that great. The WWE and Vince Mcmahon have never given the light heavyweights a fair shot in their company. Billington has had success everywhere he has gone not named the WWE. So what do I do, do I take the guys success EVERYWHERE in the world, or do I base his success on what he did in the WWE, a company notorious for not properly booking anyone under 225lbs. Fortunately for me, I don't let McMahon decide whose a good wrestler for me based on what he feels is a good wrestler.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

I'm on the fence on this one as well. Now I'm eager to vote Triple H out of this thing as much as the next guy, but I won't do it without proper reasoning. Tom Billington is certainly a wrestler capable of knocking Triple H out of thing, especially given it's a six sided ring.

Triple H would absolutely get killed by Dynamite post 2002. Triple H had two solid years, 1999-2001, everythign else, he's sucked ass in the ring. Triple H has had troubles with guys like Angle and Benoit, and essentially Billington is a combo of both of those men. Billington has all of the intensity of a Benoit, but nearly all of the technical attributes of a Kurt Angle.

And for anyone to just dismiss Billington, a guy that has been called the best wrestler poiund for pound in the business by multiple wrestlers, simply allows the WWE to pick and choose who they should watch. Billington didn't have the singles success in the WWE, whoopdy fucking doo. The WWE isn't the end all be all of werstling, in fact, It's not that great. The WWE and Vince Mcmahon have never given the light heavyweights a fair shot in their company. Billington has had success everywhere he has gone not named the WWE. So what do I do, do I take the guys success EVERYWHERE in the world, or do I base his success on what he did in the WWE, a company notorious for not properly booking anyone under 225lbs. Fortunately for me, I don't let McMahon decide whose a good wrestler for me based on what he feels is a good wrestler.

a) Shawn Michaels ("barely 200 lbs. soaking wet"), Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho

b) If Dynamite Kid goes over Triple H...then Dean Malenko should go over Flair. Malenko is a lot more technically sound than Flair, though he isn't quite the all-around superstar that Flair is. And Finlay should have gone over Luger.

c) I think it's pretty ignorant to say that "Vince McMahon decided" that Triple H would have the success that he did. Trips worked hard through the ranks and even took his punishment for the MSG incident like a man. And furthermore...ultimately, the fans have decided that Triple H is worthy of the accolades given to him. Sure, the IWC hates him...but the general audience still reacts very responsively toward him.

 

[Uncle Sam]

This isn't Bryan Danielson we're talking about here, guys. It's not Austin Aries. It's not some indie sensation that people randomly give props to for being oh so technical. This is the man that most people within the wrestling industry recognise as the greatest pound for pound wrestler of all time.

Is Triple H more successful? Sure, but since when have wrestling matches ever been decided by who's more successful? If it were, the likes of Steve Austin would have never lost a match.

Is Triple H a bad wrestler? Hell no. Not even now. In his prime, he was a great wrestler from what I remember. However, even in "the good years" The Game was not as good as the Dynamite Kid.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

The mere thought that Tom Billington could go over Triple H is a travesty and shows how "smarky" people can be in this tournament.

Isn't it smarky to post a list of achievements that includes PWI Awards?

Comparing the two, you'll see that Triple H has a wealth of World Championships in the biggest company in the wrestling world, whereas Dynamite merely has one tag team championship in that company,

'81, 91, when Dynamite was at his best, WWE wasn't the biggest promotion in the world. Not yet.

as well as some singles titles scattered amongst Japanese and smaller North American promotions.

WWE is niche, always has been , always will be. When Dynamite was wrestling in Japan he was the star of that nations sport. The size of him sin't an issue. Smaller wrestlers were mostly kept away from the larger wrestlers at that time.

Triple H has competed in a World Championship main event at Wrestlemania 8 times. Dynamite merely competed at Wrestlemania twice.

How many Bound For Glory shows have either appeared on?

Look at the resumes and one shall conclude that Triple H wins in a landslide.

Resume? Shit, I guess Jerry Lawler or Ric Flair takes the whole tournament then.

 

[Loveless]

a) Shawn Michaels ("barely 200 lbs. soaking wet"), Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, Chris Jericho

All over 200lb by around 20-30lbs, except Mysterio. Also 10 years past Billingtons prime.

b) If Dynamite Kid goes over Triple H...then Dean Malenko should go over Flair. Malenko is a lot more technically sound than Flair, though he isn't quite the all-around superstar that Flair is. And Finlay should have gone over Luger.

Malenko/Flair should be closer but a lot more technically sound? What are you smoking? The matches don't compare anyway, HHH is not Flair and Finlay sure as hell isn't Billington.

c) I think it's pretty ignorant to say that "Vince McMahon decided" that Triple H would have the success that he did.

ROFL, fucking hilarious

 

[Shocky]

Put it this way, when the WWF bought out Stamped Wrestling, and the four guys that he wanted, Bret Hart, Jim Neidhart, Dynamite Kid, and the British Bulldog, all came to the WWE, let's replace that scenario.

Instead of the Radicalz coming into the WWF in 2000, replace it with the 4 stamped wrestling guys,a nd tell me that Dynamite Kid doesn't get the success that Chris Benoit received. Put Triple H back to when Billington arrived int he WWE, and Triple H is lucky to be competeing for an IC title.

And all of the guy syou mentioned Ricky, have all been billed larger then 225. Why, because the WWE believes that smaller is inferior.

 

[NSL]

I'm going with Dynamite. Triple H is stronger, and that means shit in a TNA ring. Ask Abyss. Dynamite is a better wrestler, and would push Triple H to the limit, before ending this to a chorus of cheers. This ring is suited for guys like Dynamite.

I could go on, but Jake just about covered everything else.

 

[Big Sexy]

Triple H is stronger, and that means shit in a TNA ring.

Oh yea I forgot that the two extra sides negated a wrestlers strength advantage. My bad.

Ask Abyss

So now we're comparing Triple H to a wannabe Kane/Mick Foley that has never really accomplished shit.

I honestly thought that being one of the most accomplished superstars in wrestling history would get you far in the tournament. I guess I was wrong. All it takes is a British accent and a cool name.

 

[Tastycles]

I love how people are treating this as if it is Hulk Hogan losing to Gillberg and some sort of massive injustice is being done, when it clearly isn't. We have someone widely regarded to be the best technical wrestler of all time against somebody widely considered to be the most undeserving of their championships ever. Now, I am by no means a Triple H hater, and already said that in a WWE or WCW ring, I'd put him over, but we are in a TNA ring.

TNA's ring is designed to make smaller guys look good, largely because the big names from day one were all small guys. Simple so far. Dynamite Kid is a small guy, and he is a technical wrestler.

Lets look at who's done well in TNA...

TNA Champions: Ken Shamrock, Ron Killings, Jeff Jarrett, A.J. Styles, Raven, Rhino, Christian, Sting, Abyss, Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Mick Foley.

How many of them are remotely like HHH? Maybe Rhino, that's it. How many are in some way like Dynamite? Shamrock, Killings, Jarrett, Styles, Christian, Angle.

It'snot as if TNA hasn't had people like HHH - Booker T and Scott Steiner have both been with the company for a long time, and haven't held the title. To me, this shows that there is inherently something about TNA that allows technical guys to succeed and goes against the power guys.

Finally, the finisher argument. Jeff Hardy is smaller than Tom Billington, yet has kicked out of the pedigree on more than one occaision. I have never seen anyone kick out of Billington's tombstone.

I assure you, that this is in no way shape or form a walk over for either guy, but the facts of the matter are as follows:

• Triple H has lost high profile matches to wrestlers who are similar in style to Tom Billington, but are worse in the attributes they share.
  
• The TNA ring has proved to be a stumbling block in the past for guys like Triple H.
  
• Billington has a more deadly finisher
  
• Triple H has won multiple world championships, but Billington wrestled in an era when guys his size rarely got singles recogniton.

To me, that put the match in Billington's favour, and I voted accordingly.

 

[Miko]

Not the biggest fan of technical wrestling, not sure I think having Bret Hart and co. calling someone the greatest worker of all time is the amazing acheivement it's made out to be, Hart considers Hogans wrestling ability to be a 2 out of 10, now I am sure there are millions of people who paid to see Hogan matches that would disagree with that. Not slamming Hart's or anybody else's opinions on that matter, it just doesnt strike me as all that amazing, a compliment sure, not fact.

Anyway, there are a few technical guys that I do like, they include Hart, Benoit, Angle and of course Dynamite. Out of those 4 I think I could only really vote for Hart and Angle to go over The Game and even that would be a stretch.

Billington was an amazing wrestler but I dont think I can vote him over HHH, HHH has been at the top of the mountain for so long it's not even funny and I wouldnt mind seeing him leave the tournament but I just dont think Dynamite can do it. He may well have been restricted by the times but I can only really vote on what I've seen and heard, from Dynamite it wasnt enough.

*Runs Away*

 

[DhA]

I come from England...I'm gonna vote Dynamite Kid. Both guys seem like jerks in real life, but Dynamite didn't ruin the main event of Wrestlemania 25 by being a dick, so I vote for him.

 

[ZEUS]

I am a huge Dynamite Kid fan, and in terms of working ability, he outshines HHH, but the fact remains that HHH has won over a dozen world titles, beating the best names in the business to win them. Dynamite Kid won a bunch of Jr. Heavyweight and Tag titles, but that won't help him here. Using simple logic and intelligence, it is easy to see that HHH would win this match.

 

[Loveless]

* Shakes head *
If Billington can't beat SHHHovel, neither can AJ. I've still not heard a legitimate reason why HHH would win this and we've provided at least 10 why Billington would. WWE marks, the lot of you.

 

[justinsayne]

Triple H is an 8 time WWE champion, 5 time WHC, 5 time IC champion, 2 time European champion, one time tag champ (w/ SCSA), former KOTR, and RR winner, as well as the second grand slam champion, and seventh triple crown champion, and he's also won slammy for best hair in '97

all Dy-NO-mite has done is won the tag title once(w/Davey Boy Smith)

and if title reigns aren't enough for you than lets taek into account the Trips has beaten guys like SCSA, Rock, Goldberg, HBK, Ric Flair, Taker, Jericho, Benoit, and Mick Foley, some the greatest to ever grace a ring, what noteable guys has Billington ever beaten in singles competition?

Trips wins

 

[Tastycles]

Billington has beaten scores of Japanese and mexicans, but on the grounds that they probably don't count, I can only say he has beaten Bret Hart and the British Bulldog, which is pretty much the only North American wrestlers he fought of note, and neither of them are actually American, I suppose so you got me.

Actually, wait, they are both huge names. Remember Nikolai Volkoff? WWE Hall of Famer? Remember when Dynamite Kid beat him in 9 seconds? I do. actually, I don't I wasn't born, but it's on WWE PPV. The Wrestling Classic, to be precise. Then he beat Adrian Adonis on the same night.

For a gu who never wrestled in singles competition, to beat two big named heels in one night is a fairly big deal. He went out in the semis to Randy Savage, but to be fair, losing to Savage holds no shame.

Look, this guy beat everyone he was put against, and for reasons I've already stated, he is better suited to the ring than HHH. Show me a power guy who has done well in TNA. Show me a power guy going against Dynamite, and 9 times out of ten you'll be showing me a guy getting pinned. He beat thse guys when the WWE didn't want or need to push him as a singles star. Why? Because he was that fucking good.

Obviously though, that all goes out of the window because Triple H beat Randy Orton 8 billion times for the title.

 

[Shock]

I say Dynamite. Triple H'll probably win because he's more famous and won more titles and people are stupid, but Dynamite out-speeds and out-techs Hunter, and I'd bet a ton that would get him the W. Also, I'm a little late, but Big Sexy, stop making bad arguments. They're terrible. Example: Your first argument in this thread.

Damn the Triple H hating has started early. Can the people who are saying Dynamite Kid is going to win please tell what the fuck he has accomplished in his career? Who exactly has he beaten?

Hmm, you raise a good point.

Yes he was one of the best in-ring performers ever, but that doesn't change the fact that he would lose to Triple H.

Oh wait, you're right. He is one of the best. He probably would win.

Triple H has beaten some of the best superstars in the business during their primes. Guys like Orton, The Rock, Austin, Kurt Angle, Jericho, Edge, HBK, Goldberg.

Wow. Pretty impressive. Maybe HHH would win this.

Yes, maybe some of it came because he's banging the bosses daughter but it doesn't change the fact that he has those accomplishments under his belt.

Oh. Yeah. Forgot about the Stephanie business. No, it doesn't change the accomplishments, but that's how he got them.

You basically took your own good points, and proved them wrong in the same post, swaying me even more for Dynamite. You fail.

Dynamite moves on.