Typically, I am open to hearing debates on these matters. I open myself to other people's opinions, and generally respect them. And, I feel most important in this tournament, I understand that everybody here has a personal preference on why they've decided to vote, one way or the other. I would like to think that usually, I accept where that person is coming from, and respect their opinion. It's like I told Brain earlier in this tournament, in how people vote in this tournament. He happens to be picking purely from a kayfabe perspective, while I like to take drawing and ability to play a character into perspective. I have enforced this belief by telling those who I disagree with on a philosophical matter, "You happen to like strawberry, and I like vanilla. But we can agree we both like ice cream." If you don't understand metaphors, kindly go fuck yourself.
However, in this case, I will only accept your rationale for voting RVD being that you like RVD more than you do Andre the Giant. That is the only reason I can understand somebody picking RVD over Andre in this round. I can't really argue that, after all, what will I say?
"You're Wrong! You clearly like Andre more than your favorite wrestler in professional wrestling!"
But I digress. Anyway, there is absolutely no way, in Hell, someone here can justify why RVD should go over Andre the Giant in this round. From a kayfabe perspective, a non-kayfabe perspective, or any other reason, there should be absolutely
no justification for picking RVD over Andre the Giant. Perid.
But Tenta, RVD is a better wrestler than Andre the Giant
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I'll sum up what you
should say if you're going to take that route of debate: RVD is a better aerial artist than Andre the Giant. That is it, and that's all. Otherwise, RVD is really not that much a better wrestler than Andre the Giant in his prime. At least, with the moves RVD plans on performing to Andre the Giant.
Follow with me here. First, we're going to state the obvious, in that there is absolutely no way that RVD is lifting Andre in this match, at all. Only three people have ever done that to Andre to my knowledge. That would be Hogan, Canek, and Hansen. Nobody else in the history of professional wrestling was able to lift Andre the Giant. Thus, even if RVD is a better technician and suplex artist than Andre the Giant, which I'm not even that sure really, RVD can't even use them. Even worse, so much of RVD's offense is going to have to rely on getting Andre onto the ground. Rolling Thunder, the Five Star. Hell, even the Van Terminator requires Andre to be in a prone position for far longer than RVD could hope to get him. I suppose someone can argue that RVD can use his kicks, and that's valid. Problem is, for that to happen, RVD has to be relatively close to Andre, pretty much within reach. And there lies the contradiction; there's absolutely no way that RVD should want to get closer to Andre than he has to. He has to separate himself from the Giant, because if he doesn't, Andre is going to cold cock him, and RVD's head will be spinning faster than the wheels on a Ford Mustang. So all of your arguments that RVD can chop Andre down to size may be valid, but in doing so, you're giving RVD's only real chance to win this match.
Which brings me to RVD's flippilty flip. Yes, RVD can float around Andre, and attack him from the top rope. As risky as that is, and believe me it is, if you've ever watched a Sting/Giant match, there is reason to believe that RVD can neutralize Andre's offense. However, that is assuming that RVd will hit every time. Often, RVD was caught in the air by the Big Show in their matches, and Kane has done similar to them. If either of these men can do that to RVD, so can Andre. The fact is, Andre isn't nearly as clumsy,
in his prime, mind you, as people like to think. As a matter of fact, Andre is actually probably more nimble than both of these men, when they faced RVD.
Which brings us to weapons. Again, if a wrestler can't swing a chair, they don't belong in this tournament. Yes, RVD was in ECW, and was "hardcore". But how much does that really matter? Big Show moved over to ECW, and he wasn't exactly a hardcore wrestler. Big Show
adapted to his surroundings, and soon enough, became the most dominant champion ever in ECW. Well, aside from Mike Awesome and Taz, potentially. Still, if The Big Show can do it, why am I not to believe that Andre can't?
Earlier I said Andre was as good a wrestler as RVD. Let me explain exactly what I mean here. Again, I will only concede that RVD is better with flying in the air. Even though I've pretty much stated that all of RVD's offense becomes null against Andre, let's just say that RVD can actually use his full arsenal of moves. It doesn't change the fact that RVd has a horribly low amount of ring psychology. RVD has absolutely no knowledge of being able to work as a hell, period. I believe that should be evident by how RVD was taken during the Alliance angle. In spite of being a
heel on the team that was out for the
destruction of the fucking company, RVD still usually got the biggest pops of the night. What did he do to try and get the fans to dislike him? Jack. Shit. He didn't do a damn thing to garner heel heat,
which is what he was supposed to do, and become a true member of the Alliance. The only thing that made it even possible to dislike RVD in ECW was Bill Alfonso. The man deserves a medal, because he is the only man that can keep RVD a heel for longer than two weeks. Again, trying to act like a face during a time when you're the heel isn't cool, and it isn't good psychology. The only way to possibly describe it is
absolutely moronic. Andre, on the other hand, knows how to work as both a heel and a face. He gets the rather simple idea of being able to make the fans both love and hate his guts. So yes, because of Andre's
infinite amount of ring psychology, at least compared to the guy who just rolled up a bleezie before his match, he is actually the better wrestler. He works suplexes into his match, and has worked a submission every now and then. And even with that, he understands his role in professional wrestling. He understands that he's a Giant, so for him, it doesn't make sense to be a superb mat technician. It does, however, make sense to club a guy with his fist, and watch him go down, before putting all his weight on the guy. RVD may in fact know more moves, but he never puts
any psychology into his character, or into what he's doing in the ring. Thus, yes, Andre tha Giant is a better wrestler than RVD. Point for him.
From a kayfabe standpoint, RVD has a habit of always losing the big matches, when he actually reaches them. Yes, RVD beat Cena, but only after failing to unseat Triple H, Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Taz, Rhyno, and plenty of other wrestlers on his way to becoming heavyweight champion. The one thing that stays consistent about RVD, aside from knowing he's getting a fine for rolling up every week, is that he chokes when the pressure is at its crescendo. RVD may have been the most over guy in the WWE, yet he never fully reached that main event scene until beating John Cena in an arena that completely catered to him, in a match that did similarly. Otherwise, whenever facing a "big name", RVD comes up more than short. Ask Triple H. Ask Stone Cold Steve Austin. Ask Kurt Angle. Ask the Undertaker. They all have multiple stories about embarassing RVD when the pressure was at its highest. Andre, on the other hand, went with two losses for fifteen years.
two. In his prime, Harley Race, Jack Brisco, Nick Bockwinkel, and plenty other names have felt the wrath of Andre tha Giant. It took Inoki and El Canek, on their home turfs, to beat Andre the Giant. And quite frankly, RVD isn't up to snuff with either of those names. Andre is as big a name as the aforementioned people who have beaten oh High One, with the potential exception of Steve Austin. But I'll save that one for later. And how about this logic for Kayfabe? When RVD wrestles giants, he alawys comes up on the shorter end of the stick. Need some proof?
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All of them hardcore matches. All of them RVD faced defeat. And Andre the Giant is twice the man that Kane and Big Show are. Taker and Andre are equal, but this was a point of weakness in Taker's career. And you really expect for RVD to beat Andre, after being soundly beat by
these men.
Non-kayfabe, it isn't even a question. All I should have to say is 93,000 at Wrestlemania III, and probably half of that was because Hogan was fighting
Andre. I wonder if in all of RVD's two weeks in the main event, RVD himself has ever drawn 93,000 in his entire career. Simply put, Andre has done infinitely more for professional wrestling. Before Hogan, Andre was the guy to make wrestling mainstream.
I'll happily understand if you like RVD better, I really will. It's all a preference thing, really. But if you're voting objectively, there's
no way you can justify picking RVD. Jack Hammer tried it, and I'll just put that IC is tossing his salad. If you're voting for RVD, just admit you're only voting him because you like him more. Because there's no reason, kayfabe or otherwise, as to why you should vote RVD.
