Fourth Round: 3 Stages of Hell - Andre the Giant vs. Steve Austin

[klunderbunker]

This is a Fourth Round Matchup in the Mexico City Region.

Rules: This is a 2/3 Falls match but with gimmicks for each round. The first round will be a standard wrestling match. The second round will be a street fight. The third round will be a cage match where pins, submissions or escape can win.

Location: Arena Mexico, Mexico City, Mexico.

Andre the Giant

Vs.

Steve Austin

​

Voting is open for 4 days.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I am one of three remaining MASSVIE Andre marks right now, but even I can realize that the stipulation favors Austin. Still, given what the stipulations ARE, I am not totally sold on SCSA winning, though I know the voting will overwhelmingly favor Austin.

In a normal wrestling match, Andre vs Austin, honestly Andre would probably win. I think in his prime, when he rarely lost to anyone under any circumstances, he would be able to do enough to put Austin down for a three count. He'd be worse for wear though.

Austin's element is the Street Fight, and he'd brutalize Andre to take fall #2, but not without taking a few shots himself.

In fall three, both men would be exhausted, but I think Austin will have inflicted so much more damage on Andre that he'd be able to escape the cage. Thus, Andre would be left in the ring taunting SCSA, where as Austin would touch the ground, win the match, and then return to the ring to fight Andre some more.

 

[Baller]

I voted for Andre The Giant in this match.

Now in fall one, Andre The Giant would dominate Stone Cold Steve Austin in a singles match, Andre was unstoppable in his prime as IC said in his post, and I can't see Austin hitting a stunner on Andre to get a pinfall.

Now the second fall is key for Andre has he needs to win it here, and when he pins SCSA, is when he needs to take advantage. As soon as he gets the first fall, he needs to get up, and as soon as the bell rings for the 2nd stage, he needs to go straight for Austin and end it quick, which I think Andre will realize as escaping the cage is not really Andre's forte.

Andre will win this in two falls as he is to big for SCSA to pin, because whatever weapon SCSA would try to use, Andre will use it better and stronger.

Vote Andre.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I went with Andre....Why?


Becuase when a man that large beats you once, you arent coming back. After Andre crushes you, chokes you out, punches your lights out, head butts your skull into oblivion, your body stays injured in that manner.

Chair shots? Right, good fucking luck with that approach. Ask Hulk Hogan how effective that is. Also, recall that Andre already took the first fall, so therefore this isnt a 110% Austin swinging a chair here. Don't forget the fac tthat Andre is allowed to use weapons as well.

If we even get to the cage match, somehow, Andre has just a good of a chance as Austin. If you're dead, you aren't climbing anywere. Also, logic says this match doesnt necessarily need to be 20 minutes long by this point. Once Andre is getting falls, they will likely come fast.

When someone with visceral power like Andre puts you down, you are pretty much down, wether this match is 3 stages of hell, or 94 stages of hell.

 

[klunderbunker]

I am one of three remaining MASSVIE Andre marks right now, but even I can realize that the stipulation favors Austin. Still, given what the stipulations ARE, I am not totally sold on SCSA winning, though I know the voting will overwhelmingly favor Austin.

In a normal wrestling match, Andre vs Austin, honestly Andre would probably win. I think in his prime, when he rarely lost to anyone under any circumstances, he would be able to do enough to put Austin down for a three count. He'd be worse for wear though.

Austin's element is the Street Fight, and he'd brutalize Andre to take fall #2, but not without taking a few shots himself.

In fall three, both men would be exhausted, but I think Austin will have inflicted so much more damage on Andre that he'd be able to escape the cage. Thus, Andre would be left in the ring taunting SCSA, where as Austin would touch the ground, win the match, and then return to the ring to fight Andre some more.

I think this sums things up nicely.

The key to this whole thing is simple: if Austin gets Andre on the ground, Andre is dead.

Austin loses a one on one match. Period. He just does. The thing is though, Austin is a smart guy. He knows he can take a loss and come back to win two in a row. When we get to the street fight, Austin would be able to wear out Andre with a chair. This is where the key comes in. Austin with a chair or whatever else destroying Andre's knee and then just going off on Andre with a chair like he did to Rock will be enough to get a fall. Once they're in the cage, Austin again uses his head. If he gets Andre down he can jet out the door and get the win.

Austin wins an absolute war.

 

[Ferbian]

I said it before, had it been Brock Lesnar who faced off with Andre the giant, the choice would've been simple, due to the way Brock Lesnar destroyed Big Show with a chair, but this isn't Brock Lesnar, sure Austin is a brutal son of a bitch, but he's not brutal enough to come out of this one.

I feel, Austin is gonna be able to pull off a rough battle for Andre, but ultimately, Andre is too big of an opponent to pull a victory off in this kind of match, I sincerely doubt it will ever even reach the cage match, Andre will go 2-0 in this one.

It pains me to vote against Austin, but he doesn't really stand a chance here, it's a bad opponent for Austin.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Eh, tough call on this one. I think IC25 sums it up pretty well though. I can see Andre beating Austin in a standard wrestling match, though I don't believe he'd have an easy time of it. Austin I can see winning a street fight against pretty much anybody.

Stone Cold Steve Austin was a tenacious scrapper if nothing else. Andre would hold his own, sure enough, but I think Austin could win the second fall.

I do think both men would be pretty sore, bloody and just plain tired by the time the cage match rolls around. On one hand, Austin doesn't have much room to run around and he can't just slip under the bottom rope for a breather if he needs to. On the other, Andre's size could well be a hindurance to him because I've no doubt he'd be sucking wind pretty hard right about now. He'd have at least an extra 130 pounds or so to carry around and he'd be bleeding. If Austin keeps his head and thinks, I think he could win this. He's the faster of the two and would have an easier time either scaling a cage or just plain getting out of it, another hindurance of Andre's size.

I think Austin ultimately emerges victorious here. Bloody, beaten and half dead, but victorious.

 

[gd]

I voted for Andre here. Most definetly. He's big man. I mean BIG. Austin's style was all about brawling and going right at his opponents, etc. That'd be difficult to do against a man who is this BIG.

Not sure how the first 2 falls would go, other than it'd be 1-1, since it always is. Therefore it comes down to a Steel Cage match between 2 worn out, beaten down men, except for Austin is more beaten down since he's been facing Andre the freakin' Giant. Andre would throw him around for awhile against the cage before he sat on him or something for the pin.

Also, watch this and tell me why you're voting agianst Andre

 

[Jsaturn14]

I am going with Stone Cold on this one. Sure, he is facing Andre the Giant, but Stone Cold has faced off against Big Men in the past (Big Show, Undertaker, Kane) and come out victorious.

First Fall: Definitely goes to Andre. I think the reasons are pretty obvious. He is after all, Andre the fricken Giant, and unless Stone Cold has some kind of weapon in his hand, he is done for. Andre wins the first fall easily.

Second Fall: This is definitely where the tide will begin to turn. Stone Cold Steve Austin was born to be in a street fight. Nobody destroys opponents as effectively as Stone Cold in a street fight. With a chair in his hands, and the wealth of other weapons that Austin will be able to use, he will most definitely put Andre down in this match. Second fall goes to Austin.

Third Fall: On paper, it would seem like Andre would have the advantage in the Steal Cage. I mean, being locked up behind bars with a monster like Andre? No thank you. However, this is Stone Cold Steve Austin we are talking about here. Two things: He is the toughest SOB on the planet, and he would most definitely be able to withstand whatever Andre threw at him, and secondly, and most importantly, even when Austin was the biggest "face" in the company, he still CHEATED TO WIN! He was the ultimate anti-hero who did whatever it took to survive any situation. Even if they throw all the weapons out of the ring before they lower the cage, I can certainly see Austin having something in his trunks, perhaps some brass knuckles, to survive against a monster like Andre. I see Austin knocking Andre out with some sort of weapon, and climbing out of the cage. Third and final fall goes to Austin.

Do I think it will be easy? HELL NO! Do I think that Austin will walk out without any blood on his chest, or a limp in his step? HELL NO! But do I see Austin getting the win here by doing whatever it takes to survive? HELL YES!

Austin for the win here.

 

[LigerBomb]

Also, watch this and tell me why you're voting agianst Andre

Ok... just watched it, they even said that back in '84-'85 Andre's back was so messed up that he couldn't even hold Robin Wright who weighed 100lbs. clearly he was messed up even back then. Stone Cold Steve Austin + a boat load of weapons + Andre's bad back, knees, shoulders etc. = one fucked up giant after 3 matches against a pissed off sadistic Bionic Redneck.
Simple plan is Austin gives up the first fall and doesn't try to get much in. He just wants the match over quick and with as little damage to himself as possible. Yea he tries to get some shots in but really he's just waiting to make the weapons legal. Once that happens match 2 is a free for all. Austin goes and attacks the many many weaknesses of Andre and makes the already naturally immobilized Giant practically glacial in movement speed/ability; that of course sets up a fantastically easy exit from a steel cage in match 3. Austin wins 2-1

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Andre is not Undertaker or Kane so Austin is going to have way more trouble. Andre will win the first fall and the second fall is most important. I don't believe Austin will have the strength necessary to win the second fall. Andre can use weapons too and he will be on Austin from the get-go. I see Andre winning 2-0 or 2-1 if somehow Austin can win the Street Fight.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Ok... just watched it, they even said that back in '84-'85 Andre's back was so messed up that he couldn't even hold Robin Wright who weighed 100lbs. clearly he was messed up even back then. Stone Cold Steve Austin + a boat load of weapons + Andre's bad back, knees, shoulders etc. = one fucked up giant after 3 matches against a pissed off sadistic Bionic Redneck.
Simple plan is Austin gives up the first fall and doesn't try to get much in. He just wants the match over quick and with as little damage to himself as possible. Yea he tries to get some shots in but really he's just waiting to make the weapons legal. Once that happens match 2 is a free for all. Austin goes and attacks the many many weaknesses of Andre and makes the already naturally immobilized Giant practically glacial in movement speed/ability; that of course sets up a fantastically easy exit from a steel cage in match 3. Austin wins 2-1

This would rock so much if it wasnt proclaimed every year in this tournament that both menses were in their primes. So this is Andre the legendary giant sans bad back, knees, and everything else.

As has been said, Austins style is the OPPOSITE of what someone would need against Andre. Those Austin potato shots would do fuck all against a man with a skull the size of an anvil. I love how everyone says that the tide will turn in the no holds barred section...ummmm, am I fucking missing something? Did I miss the stipulation that Austin is the only one who gets to use weapons? Andre can use them just as well. and if Austin is already badly injured, as everyone seems to agree he will be, how effective will he be? Why couldnt Andre just take it from him?

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

First of all, anyone questioning Austin's brutality, should go back and watch Wrestlemania 17.

This is a tough one. I agree with basically everyone that Andre wins the first match, hands down. But how long will that match last? Andre is a big son of a bitch, and if he gases after the first match, Austin has the clear advantage. But if Andre gets the quick pinfall, he will have a lot of gas left in the tank. But, if Andre wins quickly, it can also work against him. That would mean he didn't inflict nearly as much damage as he could have if it had been a longer match. Andre wins round 1 either way. To win this match, Austin would have to pin Andre (no one is making Andre submit), and I don't see that happening...

In round 2, my guess is both men are tired, Andre especially. Andre has done a significant amount of damage in round one, but not enough as to where Steve Austin is done for the night. Austin was a pretty resilient guy, and wasn't a quitter. I see Austin, as everyone else does, taking advantage of the rules of a street fight.

These two men do battle for quite some time, with Austin not inflicting nearly enough damage. Austin gets frustrated (Mania 17-style), grabs a chair, and beats Andre senseless. To say Austin wouldn't have enough strength left to swing a chair is basically saying the entire match is over with after Andre pins Austin in round one. If this were true, Andre could just wait for the bell to ring, starting the second match, and pin Austin right away in the second round. I don't think that would happen.

After Austin gets the second fall, I don't see much offense coming from Andre. Austin continues to wear down Andre's legs with a battered steel chair. The crowd completey turns against Austin, and he loves it. Austin leaves the cage, by climbing or by door, to huge, huge boo's. Maybe the most negative reaction you would ever hear. Austin taunts the crowd, and Andre, and leaves. Andre finally gets to his feet, leaves the arena to a huge standing ovation. But..Austin wins.

Andre is one of my favorite guys, right up there with Steve Austin. I just don't see a contest that includes three matches, one right after the other, favoring Andre. He was just too big. In most other matches, that are, ya know, just one match, I would favor Andre.

I'm voting Austin.

 

[Adam08]

I am voting for Andre here Andre is a giant who rarely lost to my knowledge. Just because Stone cold beat Giants like Undertaker, Kane and Big Shw doesn't exactly mean he would beat Andre. In fact many wrestlers can say they beat those guys but not many wrestlers can say they beat Andre the giant.

I see the first fall of the match going 10 to 15 mintues were Stone Cold is trying to tire out Andre and get the first fall. But Andre size and strength over powers Stone Cold and gets him down for the 3 count. The 2nd fall I see going around 8 to 10 mintues were they are both tired but not exhausted and Austin keeps going for the chair but Andre keeps blocking or hits Andre but doesn't do that much damage. The ending I can see Andre getting really tired from the blocking and Austin hits him with a real hard shot to his head and would give him the win for the 2nd fall.

Then finally I see both of them really exhausted and they fight for 10 to 15 more minutes. Where Austin gets frusted cause he can't pin him and Andre keeps stoping him from leaving or climbing the cage. Then the chokeslam would come out know where and chokeslam to the ground. But then slowly walks out the cage for the win for the last fall

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I'm an Austin mark as much as the next guy, but does anyone know how many times Andre was pinned in his career? Yea...it's not that much. And this is, in essence, a 2 out of 3 falls match with different rules in each match. I see no way Austin can beat Andre. The Stunner won't hurt Andre enough for a pin. Period. Andre's head is as hard as a rock. Ask Hogan, Jim Duggan, or any other guy who faced Andre during this time. And Austin's not bodyslamming him either. Because in his peak, Austin still had neck and back problems. Andre was healthier in his prime and was tough to deal with in the ring.

Austin doesn't have enough power to knock Andre out in the first match without losing due to DQ and hoping he can just win the next two matches. That's about the ONLY strategy I can see even coming close to working here. Other than that, Andre could take this before the Cage even comes into play. And I mean that.

Just think about the match and what would happen if it took place. To me, I see Andre taking punishment from Austin, only to be hit with the Stunner, and merely 'stunning' Andre with it... surprising Austin...who becomes frustrated and uses a chair to take him down and get DQ'd.

First match: Andre

THEN you have a Street Fight. Austin could possibly win this.. except he won't. The chair shot and Stunner pisses off Andre who decides to bearhug and treat Austin like a ragdoll, fucking up Austin's neck pretty badly, and then Andre finishes him off with a headbutt that knocks Austin into next Friday.

Vote Andre. The Giant.

 

[LigerBomb]

This would rock so much if it wasnt proclaimed every year in this tournament that both menses were in their primes. So this is Andre the legendary giant sans bad back, knees, and everything else.

As has been said, Austins style is the OPPOSITE of what someone would need against Andre. Those Austin potato shots would do fuck all against a man with a skull the size of an anvil. I love how everyone says that the tide will turn in the no holds barred section...ummmm, am I fucking missing something? Did I miss the stipulation that Austin is the only one who gets to use weapons? Andre can use them just as well. and if Austin is already badly injured, as everyone seems to agree he will be, how effective will he be? Why couldnt Andre just take it from him?

Well actually in a post early in the tourney IC25 said Andre's prime was to be considered '75-'85 which more than allows for my above post to be true. That said, my point was that by '85 he was a damn near cripple. You don't get that way from Acromegaly overnight. Practically from birth it's a degenerative process, so even in his supposed earlier prime years his body was already under tremendous stressors and literally breaking down on him from the inside out. And stress points, like that of a tall building, can always be exploited.
As I said, round 1 Austin would do what he could to soften Andre up but he would also try and minimize the damage he took as much as he could and practically give him the first fall possibly even via DQ if it meant he could gain an advantage in the successive 2 bouts. With regards to the potato shots, back in 77-78 Gorilla Monsoon floored Andre a number of times in a boxing match they had. Hard rights from Austin's un-gloved hand could likewise do some damage all the same.
You're right, Andre may get a chair too. That I will agree is a definite possibility. However, I think as far as the 2nd round is concerned, Andre even with a chair was never what anyone would call lightening fast... yes he was definitely fast for a man his size but avoiding his potential swings while getting to the side/behind him to destroy his knees wouldn't be the Sisyphean-like challenge it's made out to be. Also even in this prime he was never a cardio machine, so all those wild swings --coupled with expended energy from round 1-- would certainly tire him out rope-a-dope style. This doesn't bode well for anyone in a 3 stages of hell match, let alone a man who gets weaker and progressively more tired with every step he takes.
The key to beating a man of his stature is to exhaust him and exploit his many weaknesses; I don't believe it's the war of attrition that people assume it would be.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Well actually in a post early in the tourney IC25 said Andre's prime was to be considered '75-'85 which more than allows for my above post to be true. That said, my point was that by '85 he was a damn near cripple.

I dont give a shit what IC25 SAID that does not make it SO, come now, that is preposterous.

No matter, it appears this is a losing battle, which is total bullshit. I enjoy the overwelming discrepency in votes as opposed to the overwelming discrepency of posts in support of either guy


AUSTIN IS SO TEH KEWLZ!!! BEER TUCK!!! ATTITUDE ERAZ!!

 

[Via Armbar]

I can't remember who voted Big Show over Andre but for those who did...it's incredibly stupid for you to not vote Austin over Andre here on the incorrect notion that he wouldn't be able to stun the gaint. If Wight is/was apparently faster and more agile than Andre than there isn't a single reason why Austin couldn't give him a stunner seeing that he has indeed give one to Big Show before.

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Terrible quality I know. Start it at about the one minute mark. What's that, Big Show was far past his prime? Austin wasn't even active at the time and hadn't been for years. Big show was steal cleaning house and still showing the same amount of power he has today. He only lost a step in mobility, which would put him on par with Andre's speed.

Austin would more than likely lose the first match. There is just no way to avoid a fresh Andre and hitting the stunner that quickly would absolutely be too difficult. Andre would use those massive arms to punish Austin's back and neck throughout the first match. As soon as weapons become legal however...it's a different story. Austin was never slow or immobile. He hit the ropes harder than anyone at his time and most before and since. He very often utilized diving leg chops against his bigger opponents like Taker and Kane. Of course Andre is bigger than either man but the bigger they are, the harder they fall. Austin would chop down Andre once he was tiring himself out and use a wide array of weapons to put him down.

The third stage would be the most interesting. Andre is obviously too big to climb the cage and would have much trouble fitting through the ropes and getting through the much smaller cage door. He could beat Austin by pinfall as evident from the first stage, but by this time Andre has already been brutally beaten from the street fight. After a couple minutes of Andre trying a similar tactic to the one he used in the first round, Austin would get by and hit a stunner. Andre wouldn't fall but instead stand up dazed and wobbling but still standing, much the way Show did when he took a stunner. Austin would hit another and escape the cage throught he doorway.

Andre was an incredible beast in his prime. Incredibly underrated and a far cry from the Andre that people remember in the mid to late eighties. The only men that went over him were the biggest stars of the world at the time. In Austin's prime, he was such a man.

 

[Fuel The Fire]

Damn this is a very close one..im gonna go with stone cold. This will go all 3 rounds.
The first one, im going to give Andre the win. but the next to are very close. Austin will do what ever he needs to do win in the second and he will beat the crap out of his opponent. It will almost be ecw like hardcore rules the way he would have to attack the giant in this one. The 3rd match both will be beaten down until they have nothing left and Austin will get a stunner on Andre and some how he will get tied up in the ropes which will leave the chance for Austin to leave the cage.

 

[8thwotwATG]

This is probably all for naught, as it thus far appears that SCSA is going to go over here, however I just wanted to give the old college try and try and generate some votes for ATG. In my opinion, He ends this in 2 straight falls. In the first one, he manages to go over Austin w/a series of manuvers that do maximum damage to Austin's anatomy,ie headbutts, hard chops and forearms to the kidneys etc,.Austin of couse comes back w/ some offense of his own, but I just have a problem seeing him land a Thez press on ATG. I just don't think that Andre is going to be put away by a stunner,or pretty much anything that Austin can generate. In the 2nd fall in a street fight, Austin probably does a little better, but here again, he's already damaged goods from the 1st. match, and Andre will have sustained less damage than SCSA. He wins the 2nd. fall in much the same way as the 1st. one. I'm sure that Andre would sell for him and make him look awesome out there, but considering that he did the majority of his jobs at the tail end of his career, I can't justify giving Austin the nod here over an in his prime Andre.

Vote Andre.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

The results so far for this match are some of the reasons why I very rarely vote or post in these tournys. While I understand that Austin is the more resent and more well known to voters here I do not think he should win. I understand voting for a fav wrestler but just voting for the one you know is wrong. Andre beats Austin here in 2 straight falls. And he chucks a bottle of whiskey between falls. And I have yet to read a solid arguement against that.

LigerBomb said- Ok... just watched it, they even said that back in '84-'85 Andre's back was so messed up that he couldn't even hold Robin Wright who weighed 100lbs. clearly he was messed up even back then.

First, to limit Andre's prime to 85 is just silly. Second, I have a beef with the timeline here. I think they err'd in the documentary. First, Princess Bride was released in late 87, so unless it took almost 2 years to make I think the date of 85 might be off. Second, Andre wrestled though 85 including Wrestlemania where he bodyslammed Studd, The Collosal Jossle(sp) in MSG vs Bundy, with Atlas vs Studd and Bundy on SNME and with Hogan vs Studd and Bundy on SNME. Then in early 86 he won the battle royal at Wrestlemania 2. It was after this he had back problems and had surgery. I can't imagine he could wrestle thru Wrestlemania 1 thru 2 and not be strong enough to lift Wright. He could lift Studd but not Wright?

Various posters-

In round 2, my guess is both men are tired, Andre especially

Also even in this prime he was never a cardio machine, so all those wild swings --coupled with expended energy from round 1-- would certainly tire him out rope-a-dope style.

Austin would chop down Andre once he was tiring himself out and use a wide array of weapons to put him down.

Andre in his prime would often wrestle long matches, esp in Japan. He also battled both Bockwinkle and Race to 60 minute draws. So I think the 'Andre will be tired after one match' is silly.

LigerBomb said-Austin goes and attacks the many many weaknesses of Andre and makes the already naturally immobilized Giant practically glacial in movement speed/ability; that of course sets up a fantastically easy exit from a steel cage in match 3. Austin wins 2-1

Again, Andre in his prime was not a slow moving glacier. This is one of the misconceptions that voters have, seeing Andre after his prime rather then youtubing older Andre matches.

Via Armbar said- Andre is obviously too big to climb the cage and would have much trouble fitting through the ropes and getting through the much smaller cage door.

Face Andre in his prime won cage matches against the likes of Studd and Kamala. In his prime Andre could easily go out the door. Silly.

There is not one convincing arguement that says Austin wins. Andre in his prime wins this easily.

 

[LigerBomb]

First, to limit Andre's prime to 85 is just silly. Second, I have a beef with the timeline here. I think they err'd in the documentary. First, Princess Bride was released in late 87, so unless it took almost 2 years to make I think the date of 85 might be off. Second, Andre wrestled though 85 including Wrestlemania where he bodyslammed Studd, The Collosal Jossle(sp) in MSG vs Bundy, with Atlas vs Studd and Bundy on SNME and with Hogan vs Studd and Bundy on SNME. Then in early 86 he won the battle royal at Wrestlemania 2. It was after this he had back problems and had surgery. I can't imagine he could wrestle thru Wrestlemania 1 thru 2 and not be strong enough to lift Wright. He could lift Studd but not Wright?

Missing the point... The guy said watch the video and say why you wouldn't vote Andre, so I watched and did exactly that. Also as said before regardless of when his back was so severely damaged that he couldn't handle 100lbs. of force is the fact that you don't get that way overnight and that his back/joints were perpetual weak links even in his prime.

Andre in his prime would often wrestle long matches, esp in Japan. He also battled both Bockwinkle and Race to 60 minute draws. So I think the 'Andre will be tired after one match' is silly.

A. I've seen those Japan matches and there was tons of resting in between the action B. I'm not talking in absolutes or extremes. Are you really saying Andre would as fresh starting match 2 as he was starting match 1? It's physiologically impossible. Now who's being "silly"? The point I was making was that everyone gets tired the longer they compete and someone of Andre's frame, and structural limitations would surely tire faster and be more winded than his healthy normal sized opponent.

Again, Andre in his prime was not a slow moving glacier.

Again... what I actually said was:

...Austin goes and attacks the many many weaknesses of Andre and makes the already naturally immobilized Giant practically glacial in movement speed/ability; that of course sets up a fantastically easy exit from a steel cage in match 3. Austin wins 2-1

I.E. Andre has natural limitations, and Austin via many methods would exploit those weaknesses thereby making it hard if not near impossible for Andre to get out of a cage, and certainly not faster than Austin could. What I did not say was "Andre is slow as a glacier"

This is one of the misconceptions that voters have, seeing Andre after his prime rather then youtubing older Andre matches.

I've no misconception. Please, don't make assumptions like the above. I've followed Andre's career for decade as it happened and have seen his body of work from the '70s through the early '90s.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

Missing the point... The guy said watch the video and say why you wouldn't vote Andre, so I watched and did exactly that. Also as said before regardless of when his back was so severely damaged that he couldn't handle 100lbs. of force is the fact that you don't get that way overnight and that his back/joints were perpetual weak links even in his prime.

Not missing the point. You stated that in 85 his back was shot. I disagree. I have shown that thru 85 he wrestled some big men and tossed them around the ring. You stressed he could not lift 100lbs. I showed where he slammed Studd and took on both Hart and Neidhart at the end of a battle royal and dumped both over the top rope. If memory serves he threw Hart ontop of Neidhart. Also, in his prime his back was not an issue. It may have been weakening as he got bigger but it was not an issue when he was running all over the ring.

A. I've seen those Japan matches and there was tons of resting in between the action

In some spots of course, but back then everone used 'rest holds'. Backland, Flair, Andre, anyone.

I'm not talking in absolutes or extremes. Are you really saying Andre would as fresh starting match 2 as he was starting match 1? It's physiologically impossible.

Right, because Austin was not actually in match one. therefore he would not ba tired. Of course Andre would be tired. So would Austin. And Austin had to carry Andre's bulk in the match and, by everyones assumption, got hurt enough to be pinned so he is in a weaker state. Can't say otherwise, its physiologically impossible.

The point I was making was that everyone gets tired the longer they compete and someone of Andre's frame, and structural limitations would surely tire faster and be more winded than his healthy normal sized opponent.

So we agree, Austin gets tired and weaker from the beating Andre gives him. And in his prime Andre would last. Again, this is not a iron man match, both matches could really only take around 15 minutes. Or all three could last an hour. IMO Andre in his prime could go the distance.

I.E. Andre has natural limitations, and Austin via many methods would exploit those weaknesses thereby making it hard if not near impossible for Andre to get out of a cage, and certainly not faster than Austin could. What I did not say was "Andre is slow as a glacier"

Originally Posted by LigerBomb
...Austin goes and attacks the many many weaknesses of Andre and makes the already naturally immobilized Giant practically glacial in movement speed/ability; that of course sets up a fantastically easy exit from a steel cage in match 3. Austin wins 2-1

Naturally immobilized giant? Not in his prime.

Now, since you are insisting on useing Andre only after the effects of his illness have begun to take there toll then I call that the Austin everyone is refering to is the one that battled Mr McMahon, ergo the Ausin with a injured neck and a more limited moveset. So...Andre works the neck and the match is done.

I've no misconception. Please, don't make assumptions like the above. I've followed Andre's career for decade as it happened and have seen his body of work from the '70s through the early '90s.

While I was not making assumptions of you per se( notice I said voters ) I do think you are as you seem to be fixated on the Andre of the mid to late 80s rather then the younger, stronger, more mobile Andre of the 70s/early 80s.

 

[LigerBomb]

*sigh* Lets do this quick:

Not missing the point. You stated that in 85 his back was shot. I disagree. I have shown that thru 85 he wrestled some big men and tossed them around the ring. You stressed he could not lift 100lbs. I showed where he slammed Studd and took on both Hart and Neidhart at the end of a battle royal and dumped both over the top rope. If memory serves he threw Hart ontop of Neidhart. Also, in his prime his back was not an issue. It may have been weakening as he got bigger but it was not an issue when he was running all over the ring.

I stated that the video said his back was shot by '85. Again, the video stressed he couldn't catch 100lbs. Again, someone asked how, based on the video, someone could not vote for Andre. I simply answered the question.
His back as well as joints/bones were always an issue. The effect may not have be near what they would eventually become but being his size is always a source of great strength and a crippling weakness it's simple physics. In layman's terms "The bigger they are...

In some spots of course, but back then everone used 'rest holds'. Backland, Flair, Andre, anyone.

So the best you got is that others did it too therefore that makes Andre's cardio capabilities a non issue; ok gottcha. (Lets pay no mind to the fact that Acromegaly prevents the heart from pumping enough blood to oxygenate the body's soft tissue and bone or that the kidneys --the filters of the body-- can't filter the blood's waste products properly.)

Right, because Austin was not actually in match one. therefore he would not ba tired. Of course Andre would be tired. So would Austin. And Austin had to carry Andre's bulk in the match and, by everyones assumption, got hurt enough to be pinned so he is in a weaker state.

Right... even though I what I actually said was:
"The point I was making was that everyone gets tired the longer they compete and someone of Andre's frame, and structural limitations, would surely tire faster and be more winded than his healthy normal sized opponent."
You claim I'm disregarding Austin. Wrong. Furthermore, I don't believe Austin would have to literally carry Andre's bulk, but I could see what you're saying.
That may have been other people's assumption, it wasn't everyone's, and it certainly wasn't mine. In fact I believe Austin might just give the 1st match to Andre via illegal moves that get him disqualified but ultimately sets up for long term advantages.

Can't say otherwise, its physiologically impossible.

O I c wut u did therez... clever.

So we agree, Austin gets tired and weaker from the beating Andre gives him. And in his prime Andre would last. Again, this is not a iron man match, both matches could really only take around 15 minutes. Or all three could last an hour. IMO Andre in his prime could go the distance.

No we don't agree. Let's try it again... I said:
"The point I was making was that everyone gets tired the longer they compete and someone of Andre's frame, and structural limitations, would surely tire faster and be more winded than his healthy normal sized opponent."
I agree Austin would not be as fresh as he was in round 1, but in relation to Andre he'd be more capable with regards to endurance and fatigue. The rest is all your own conjecture which I don't agree with.

Naturally immobilized giant? Not in his prime.

Nature i.e. his naturally acquired disease restricts, prevents, and lessens normal movement patterns. Even in his glorious prime --regardless of when it was-- Andre had movement limitations in his back hips and knees. Hence by nature he was naturally immobilized

Now, since you are insisting on useing Andre only after the effects of his illness have begun to take there toll then I call that the Austin everyone is refering to is the one that battled Mr McMahon, ergo the Ausin with a injured neck and a more limited moveset. So...Andre works the neck and the match is done.

I'm not insisting at all, in fact I agreed with IC25's post that his prime could be consider long before the late 80's. And even if I were, that you just go "since you did it I'll do it"... is weak.

While I was not making assumptions of you per se( notice I said voters ) I do think you are as you seem to be fixated on the Andre of the mid to late 80s rather then the younger, stronger, more mobile Andre of the 70s/early 80s.

I'm a voter, (I noticed you said voters) therefore you were talking to me as a part of the larger voting pool. You even wrote:
"...I was not making assumptions of you per se( notice I said voters ) I do think you are as you seem to be fixated on..."
But thanks for the clarification/backpedal.
I'm not fixated on any year. What I am fixated on is a man who was between 7'4-7'2 and 300-500lbs who had a disease his entire adult life that cause a great deal of physical/internal complications and limitations. I fixated on the natural structural flaws such a being would posses. I fixated on the musculoskelatal complications that are chronic in such a man. I fixated on his enlarged and progressively weakened heart that couldn't possible be as strong as normal sized healthy athletic male's. I fixated on the man's natural weaknesses. None of these problems are exclusive to a specific year. They merely got worse as time went on. Austin's methods would be the same regardless; however the methods simply would have been even more devastating and effective year after year.

 

[D-Man]

I can honestly say that this match type favors Austin. This is probably one of the only ways he'd score a win over Andre.

The first fall would most definitely go to Andre the Giant. Austin would never be able to keep up with Andre's size, speed, and skill. Remember, we're using an Andre the Giant from the 70's, when he was in top shape and was a freak of the ring.

But once we go into the street fight and cage match, Austin has the edge. He's psychotic when there are no rules, so the street fight would be dominant on his end. The cage match may favor Andre at the beginning, but Austin has always been overwhelming in cage matches.

Austin wins here.