The State of the Superstar: 2) Alberto Del Rio

[Adam Rush]

Hello, folks, and welcome to another edition of The State of the Superstar. I'm your host, Ryan Thunder, and today's Success, Failure, or Neutral topic is:

ALBERTO DEL RIO

August 20th, 2010 was the day Alberto Del Rio made his WWE debut. He defeated Rey Mysterio by submission. He was the first Mexican-born WWE Champion. He's a 4-time World Champion and a former Money in the Bank winner.

So what do you guys think, success, failure, neutral?

In three years, Del Rio has, quite honestly, been pushed straight to the moon. He's an incredible in-ring talent. BUT. He fails to garner any reaction without his hilarious ring announcer, Ricardo Rodriguez.

I mean, read some of these:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/555403-ricardo-rodriguez-translated-introductions-raw.html

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/smackdown/520370-ricardo-rodriguez-translated-introductions.html

Seriously, Ricardo has all the charisma here. Honestly, if Del Rio had even half his in-ring skill, he would have been fired by now. Del Rio has been a huge disappointment in my opinion. He's not the draw Vince was thinking he would be. A combination of Ricardo and incredible in-ring skill saves him from being a failure.

Neutral.

Your turn! Looking forward to reading these.

ALSO, feel free to leave feedback and offer me superstar suggestions!

 

[Schuyler]

As you can see without Ricardo, he is very lame, the WWE as tried everything they could to get him over, but they can't without Ricardo. They put the belt on him four times already. You got it or you don't and Del Rio don't got it, he as had the full support of the WWE and still can't get over. His time is going to pass real soon, there is just to much up and coming star for them to put anymore time into Del Rio.

 

[EireLemon]

Alberto Del Rio...

Del Rio was pushed and pushed by WWE, but he failed to garner any sort of reaction from the WWE Universe. WWE wanted a new mexican wrestler so they picked Del Rio. In my eyes Del Rio has been a failure, however Ricardo Rodriguez, I think has a good future, he can wrestle and he has a bright future, he is only 27. And not to mention that Del Rio is 36.

So Success or Failure?
Failure

 

[Jack-Hammer]

In the grand scheme of things, and given the options, I'd have to go with Neutral on this one.

Del Rio has been given several huge pushes in WWE but he just hasn't been able to connect with fans on a level that WWE had hoped. At least, when it comes to fans who aren't of Hispanic heritage as he's gotten strong reactions from them as either a face or a heel. Del Rio has worked hard and can clearly go inside the ring, no question, but he just hasn't really clicked with many fans.

Based on that, some will no doubt declare him a failure but I just can't do it. He's damn good inside the ring, he's a 2 time WWE Champion & 2 time World Heavyweight Champion, Royal Rumble & MITB winner. Since there's no in-between option, I have to go with neutral. Just can't dismiss 4 World Championship runs as if it's nothing, in my opinion.

 

[bioshock]

All in all hes been a failure. The only reason he has ever won a championship to start with is because hes Mexican, and Vince knows he can make some money off him. I bet any decent Mexican given the chance would be a champion if they had the Del Rio name with the manager.

Del Rio on his own cant draw heat or cheers from the fans. Your not a good champion when you cant get that done. He would make a decent US champion at best, just so he could use that gimmick of not liking the USA and having the US title (done a million times). Past that hes no use to me. Less I see him on tv the better. Failure none the less.

 

[prestonluv]

The only reason Del Rio keeps on getting pushed is to appease the Mexican contingent. If Del Rio were anything other than Hispanic he would be a low to mid card jobber. This might sound racist and non PC but i believe it to be true.

 

[Loveless]

Del Rio might go down as one of the biggest failures in WWE history. This is a guy who has all the tools to become a major star. He has received numerous huge pushes and despite this, no-one cares, not even the IWC who are typically the biggest supporters of the significant talents.
It's a mystery really and I can only assume it's because he was pushed too soon without ever having time to get people against him. It certainly didn't help that his cash-in against Punk was overshadowed by Kevin Nash. Del Rio is now in the position where it's not worth hating him, because no-one expects him to hold the belt for long anyway.

 

[Bernkastel]

I'm going with neutral. It took Delberto some time to really catch on, and Ricardo was a big reason why the fans took a liking to him when Delberto turned face last year. He was easily as over as a face as Ziggler is on, and probably 4th overall in the face hierarchy at the time. He a bit bland now, but I attribute that to two things...

- the heel turn itself, which I thought was rather stale

- Ricardo's injury coming at a terrible time.

Personally I see him as a good transitional champion, he's over enough to hold fans attention until a bigger star takes the title away, but not big enough himself to be a marquee name. In the grand scheme of things he should only be a midcard draw, but he's booked as a main eventer. For that I'm neutral because I've never connected with him like I have other successful performers. I can't even really recall one defining feud that he's had that's really stuck out.

 

[BrianFNPillman]

I vote failure. He'd have got neutral if Ricardo hadn't have got suspended because goddam does that little fella' amuse me when he does Del Rios entrance.

But in all seriousness, I don't get Del Rio. The comparison in gimmicks has been done before, but why am I meant to give a shit about Mexican JBL? Everyone talks about this "charisma" he has but when he's chasing the title all he seems to do is come out and talk about his "destiny" like he's TNA Raven circa-2003. And when he's champion...I just wish he wasn't champion. He's talented in the ring, I'm not taking that away from him, but he can't seem to connect with the fans.

I had high hopes for the dude coming in as well, FSM did a big feature on him being a legit MMA tough guy early in his career, his family legacy and all that jazz. But really, all he is is a less injury prone Mysterio and a less botchy Sin Cara by this point. Hell if McMahon had had his merchandising head on when they put him on TV they'd have kept him in a lucha mask, because we all know kids love 'dem masks.

Unfortunately, he just seems to have fallen flat. He's a filler guy, they put a title on him when they either have bigger plans for someone else or they need someone solid in the ring to sell a match until someone else comes along.

 

[CultOfPersonality123]

I was hoping you'd do Del Rio because despite being good in the ring he is not able to get a reaction. He comes out and I'm pretty sure u can hear crickets from inside the stadium. Despite being given that big push from royal rumble to MITB to WWE championship to World Championship nothing has worked. Vince has to realize he gets nothing from the fans. So I'm gonna have to go fail on this he can not get anything out of the crowd except a USA chant.
Also, you should use a mid carder as your next spotlight someone like Wade Barrett or Miz or Cody Rhodes. Just an opinion.

 

[newwaveknight]

As I've said many times, Del Rio is proof that there is a difference between being a great in-ring worker and a great in-ring entertainer. The man is a clinic on what good technical wrestling should be, but pure athleticism will not engage an audience.

I will say neutral, because (as others have said) he is a good guy to temporarily put a major title on whenever you're trying to transition the belt, but not someone to keep in the main-event picture permanently. I can also see him being one of those guys who helps up-and-coming talent get over once he's got some more years in the company.

 

[scragg23]

I'm not his biggest fan, but the guy is awesome in the ring and yeah he has to use a manager to get him over, but isn't that what managers are for?!

Oh and yeah i forgot being a 4 time world champion, a royal rumble winner and a money in the bank winner made you a failure...

morons.
pointless thread.

 

[BrianFNPillman]

Oh and yeah i forgot being a 4 time world champion, a royal rumble winner and a money in the bank winner made you a failure...

morons.
pointless thread.

Well it is if you can't get over. They can slap the title on him and as many times as they want, give him as many token victories for title shots, but if you can't get a reaction unless you're booked against either an incredibly strong face/heel then you can't do shit.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

With or Without Ricardo, Alberto as he is now spells failure. As a Heel his gimmick was meh but at least he had one. We've seen it a thousand times no innovation. As a face he lost any ounce of character he had. Sucked up to the fans, joined the 'Racial' gimmicks that WWE loves to push. Then now back to Heel and without Ricardo, welcome to Shit City. He can only become a success with a gimmick change. I'm voting he kind of return to his Mexican Aristocat gimmick but spice it up make him like a Mexican Mafia type Crime Boss Godfather like character, hire cronies to do his bidding for him and he wouldnt have to shit just order hits and pay off people until someone penetrates his regime and gets him

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Del Rio is a success... for a moment you have to step outside of the crowd reaction and look at who and what he is.

1) When WWE signed him he was the most over, money making and talented guy Lucha had to offer. This wasn't an unproven talent, just uproven in "sports entertainment". Dos Caras Jr. was simply a god in Mexico at that time.

2) He was Triple H's FIRST signing when he got the job at talent relations, now look at that... Vince didn't just say to him "Ok, pick who you want..." Triple H went for that "interview", even if it was a family affair with a plan - he had an idea for this guy in Mexico to become one of our top guys. Vince would have gone and watched tapes, taken advice and perhaps even come up with a few ideas of his own (Sin Cara?) but Trips would have fought his corner and said, if I get this, the first guy I want is this guy...

So he came in but signed a developmental deal which must have been hella well paid... and sold on the basis he had to learn the WWE style, which is fair as Lucha is drastically different... Del Rio passed with flying colours... He is proof that someone outside the mould can not only survive, but flourish and be trusted to learn well, when your main source is gonna be indy's going forward - he's a damn good advert for adapting to what WWE wants from you.

3) So he debuts and does so big, sure his gimmick was a mishmash of Eddie, DiBiase but he was carrying his end - in the ring, on the mic and the intangible was there in Ricardo... sure the crowd will NEVER respond to ADR, but as long as he is with Ricardo they will still respond when he walks out...

4) When he had his chances in the ring, he delivered - the matches were solid, largely botch free, he didn't hurt or embarrass anyone... indeed, very quickly you forgot that Dos Caras Jr. ever existed and very realistically if you told people who only half knew of his work that he was ADR they'd have not believed you...

Sure his runs are not "box office" in the same way Cena or Punk are, that's not his role and never was, he was signed as Ted DiBiase was in 87, that their gimmicks are similar is pure coincidence... but he was brought in as a guy who could sit in that top spot for short spells, back it up with quality in the ring and on the mic and most importantly - make whoever beats him look like a million dollars... Vince never pulled the trigger on Ted and that is probably a regret looking back, it's certainly gonna be something Trips is concious of himself, had he been in charge then Ted was wearing that belt... so he made sure his guy did and continues to do so... not out of favouritism, but cos eventually Rey is gone, Sin Cara is a memory - the hispanic market demands someone, and THEY will always react to Del Rio, be it cheer or boo... and they will pay to see him cos he is Dos Caras Jr. all the lineage etc is still there, just in a new and frankly better package. WHEN they do pull the trigger on Ricardo v Del Rio it'll be huge business, they learned from Virgil and they will make sure he is not left out in the wind without proper training or a plan...At the time, had Virgil been learning in the way Ricardo does down in NXT he would have been a major star... that pop when Ricardo goes face will be epic, he won't need a Roddy Piper on crutches to carry the load and suddenly WWE has 2 hispanic stars...

So for what was basically a gamble, he is a massive success... but if you are trying to make him Hogan, Cena, Austin etc... never in a million years, but trust me in 10 years we'll talk of ADR the same as we do Jericho now... worth his weight in gold, vacations and to talent - a yoda type... cos he had every reason to be a complete bomb and isn't - Casual/Cena type fan's just don't get or know what I just wrote... that really is all his problem is...

 

[Aquaman6686]

I've never understood why people love Ricardo Rodriguez so much. He's not even the slightest bit amusing and never has been, not for one second of Del Rio's career.

As for Del Rio, he has all the tools to make it as a top star. He's got a great look, he's excellent in the ring, and he can work with just about any opponent and put on a really good match. His problem is that he can't work the microphone well enough for an American crowd because of his accent. As soon as Del Rio picks up a mic, the crowd loses interest, because they can't understand much of what he says. I don't have that problem, possibly because I grew up in a mostly Hispanic area, but I'd say most people claim they have a very hard time understanding Del Rio. Del Rio's other major problem is WWE's fault - since he was a heel for his first few years, he was pushed all wrong. After his initial streak of beating and injuring guys with the Cross Armbreaker, he slowly became a stereotypical WWE heel who couldn't win a match clean to save his life, and WWE doesn't understand that this method is the WRONG way to build a heel.

I'm going to call him a success (barely), simply because he's racked up an impressive list of accomplishments in his barely three year career.

But if WWE ditches Ricardo, and just lets Del Rio wrestle and beat top guys CLEAN, he could be the enormous star he should already be.

 

[CyberPunk]

Del Rio could've been so much more. He has the look. He had the history and credibility and he was the kind of character who should've been pushed to the moon. He was(and still is) amazing inside the ring. He had everything going for him. So what happened? According to me these things happened.

1. Edge. Once he lost his Mania match to Edge, he lost a lot of momentum. His destiny came to naught. And once Edge retired, he lost to Christian. He just couldn't recover from those setbacks. Even the MITB win couldn't help him.

2. Gimmick. He was supposed to be a rich bastard. But the booking was terrible. He had all the money but never used it. He could've bought referees, he could've cheated to win. Hell, he could've tried to buy his opponents. But we were never given a reason to hate him. He just went out there and lost and lost, and lost. As a WWE champion he lost, as a WHC he lost. So when he won, it meant that much lesser. He was a heel with no heelish tactics. All he had was destiny. That boring destiny.

3. Face turn. An inexplicible one. He was cheered because of si chants. His manager garnered more reaction while he just smiled. And that didn't lat long.

Del Rio still has all the tools. You talk about his mic skills, but that's what managers are for (remember kane or undertaker in their early days?). But first define his character. His matches hardly have any story behind them ( I am not talking about in-ring storyteling). There is so much that can be done with him
As of now, he's a failure. It can change in future, but work is needed to be done.

 

[Dirk]

The only reason Del Rio keeps on getting pushed is to appease the Mexican contingent.

I'm not in full agreement, but I think it's fairly obvious that the fans in Mexico are a big factor in Del Rio's push, with the "Fiesta Del Rio", Ricardo's mexican tie and ADR's once green, white and red ring gear. Yeah, it's pandering to the latino people, but the WWE has done worse.

Enter... The Great Khali.

Once, this man was an impressive physical specimen, but age catches up to us all. The muscles have sagged a little, the hair started to thin and his legs, back and ankles are showing the wear and tear of supporting a giant. He can't walk properly, let alone wrestle, and he has little to zero talent for speaking to the (English-speaking) crowd.

Compared to THAT whole bowl of suck-salad, Del Rio is a phenominal ring-performer. Granted, he started out a bit boring, but Greco-Roman wrestling doesn't even allow using the legs for offence, so it's a small miracle he added other, thrilling moves to his arsenal in the enzuigiri and the moonsault.

I'm bilingual, so I can understand if Del Rio has a problem with English, but in all honesty, I thinks he speaks it perfectly. He has a Mexican accent, yes, but he's Mexican! What do you expect? Theoretically, he's good on the mic - good delivery, facial expressions and catchphrases, but the crowd just doesn't give a damn.

So, all-in-all, I think ADR's an astounding ring talent with unremarkable mic skills, getting a little overshadowed by Ricardo. He's good, but he's overpushed and THAT's why he seems worse than he is.

Neutral.

 

[Miko]

He's boring, but he might draw, I don't really know. I just went with failure because he's fucking dull, I wanted to kill myself just playing as him on WWE 13

 

[Mustang Sally]

The man is a clinic on what good technical wrestling should be, but pure athleticism will not engage an audience.

Sadly, you're right. So many folks on this forum claim to be fans of great technical wrestling, but are "bored" by Alberto Del Rio. Go figure.

He's a master workman, a guy the other performers must love working with because he smooths out the rough edges they often encounter in working with people not as proficient as ADR.

At the beginning of his WWE career, he functioned as an old-style villain, probably the type of wrestler guys in the 1950's would have appreciated. Sadly, that style isn't viewed with approval anymore and a lot of fans simply didn't know what to make of ADR, especially since so many of the folks who go to the arena to see wrestling matches aren't really fans of the "sport" .....they're simply there for a night out with the kiddies.

Management tried him as a face, and personally, I thought it was working out just fine. More mysterious was the fact they turned him good guy with no story line attached; one day he was a villain, next day he became a face for no good reason. Still, I thought he was doing fine with the fans, especially with Ricardo leading the chants.

So, what happens? They turn him bad again, again for no apparent reason. I keep thinking they want him on the opposite side of Dolph Ziggler since they seemed to equate Dolph going good with ADR going bad.

But through all the attitude changes, ADR maintains an incomparable ability to work a wrestling match. If the fans can't appreciate it, then I guess he'll never really catch on. But with a dearth of main event performers in the company, there's no question in my mind that Alberto Del Rio should be one of them.

 

[Blade]

I'm always going to decide how successful a wrestler is based on whether or not their accolades were more impressive than their talent. Which, to me, makes Alberto Del Rio an actual success.

He's pretty good in the ring, but that's all he really has going for him. He doesn't have any charisma or promo skills and is incapable of connecting to the audience on any meaningful level. He beat up everyone's favourite underdog, Rey Mysterio and couldn't get over. He kissed America's ass for several months as a face and couldn't get over. He kicked in the skull of the quite popular Dolph Ziggler on more than one occasion and couldn't get over.

And yet, as already pointed out multiple times, he is a former WWE champion, World Heavyweight champion, Money in the Bank winner and Royal Rumble winner. All this within a number of years. He should never have gotten those kinds of pushes. But he did, and he continues to do so.

WWE should see Del Rio as a failure, but Del Rio should see his own career as big god damn success.

 

[MCMG]

This is a very difficult one. Firstly, how are we defining failure and success? Is it relative to ability or just more in terms of accomplishments.

If we are judging him on his accomplishments in the WWE then he is a success. 4 time world champ, won the MITB and the Royal Rumble. That is a very impressive resume for someone who hasn't been around that long and is still fairly youthful.

However, he has been pushed hard by the WWE; yet he still feels stale. His matches are very up and down. Some are entertaining and some are extremely dull. He is also boring when on the mic (in fact, I think he has regressed in terms of quality) regardless of him being heel, face or with RR.

He was immediately slotted in at the top of the card and has been given great opportunities but still isn't massive over. However, he has been a 4 time world champ and put on some decent matches. He is definitely not a failure because the 4 world titles suggest over-achieving. Therefore, I am having to say Neutral but leaning towards success.

 

[LSN80]

BUT. He fails to garner any reaction without his hilarious ring announcer, Ricardo Rodriguez.

I mean, read some of these:
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/raw/555403-ricardo-rodriguez-translated-introductions-raw.html

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/smackdown/520370-ricardo-rodriguez-translated-introductions.html

I'm not sure what people posting about him on what seems to be a role-play, wrestling forum has to do with Del Rio's success.

In three years, Del Rio has, quite honestly, been pushed straight to the moon. He's an incredible in-ring talent.

I think this statement has far more to do with Del Rio's success then any fantasy situation dreamed up by someone on a message board.

Honestly, I don't know how anyone could look at Alberto Del Rio as anything but a success. Within the bubble known as the WWE, he's been incredibly successful. He's main evented PPV's along-side the likes of CM Punk and John Cena. He's the winner of the only 40 man Royal Rumble, the largest in company history. He won and then successfully cashed in Money In The Bank against CM Punk at Summerslam 2011, the second-biggest PPV WWE has. When the smoke cleared, he was standing tall as the second largest PPV WWE has ended. That says a great deal to me.

Further, the man is a 4-time WWE/World Heavyweight Champion. Who else, after a 15 year career with the company, was a 4-time WWE/World Champion? Shawn Michaels. I'm not comparing his body of work to HBK's, simply pointing out that in 3 years, Del Rio has won as many titles as HBK did in his entire career.

Further, and especially of late, he's been pushed as a ruthless competitor, and with success. In his double turn with Ziggler, he targeted Dolph's vulnerable spot, his head. In his match with Sheamus, he did the same to the leg. He's dropped the one-note destiny mantra which got him criticized by many people, and he's focused more on his body of work inside the ring along with developing a ruthless intensity he's lacked before. Further, he's winning matches. He lost to Orton on Smackdown, true, but he's beaten Ziggler multiple times, and now another big name in Sheamus, all within his fourth title run. The way he's been booked as a heel champion in the past has often been quite weak, so he's even being presented as a stronger competitor.

I think Del Rio has been a success. He's not lived up to the enormous hype he was given when he was debuting, some being poor-booking. He simply loses far too much in order for him to be looked at by many as credible for a champion. But looking at his accolades, such as being a four time champion in three years, having won the Royal Rumble once as well as Money In The Bank, and it's hard to see him as anything less then a success.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Alberto Del Rio has been a success in WWE.

4 time World Champion (2 WWE, 2 World Heavyweight)
Money In the Bank 2011
Royal Rumble winner 2011

That's not bad considering he has only been on the main roster for 3 years and he accomplished half of that list in his first year. Whether you are entertained by his matches and promos or not, Alberto has been successful. I highly doubt he is going anywhere anytime soon so he will only continue to see even more success in the WWE as time goes on. I can see him being a contender in the championship tier for years to come and a few more title reigns will be his by the time all is said and done. With that being said, if he were to decide to end his career today, he could already be viewed as a success. I don't see how anyone has voted otherwise unless they find him boring and/or just voted that way due to disliking him.

 

[free40susbird]

That's true. However, I do think ADR fucked the pup last week when he turned on Ricardo. While it's true that he's starting to be taken seriously as a heel now, we need to keep in mind that Ricardo was the reason he was over to start with. That said, I see this happening

Tonight on RAW, ADR could go on a rant about how Ricardo was trying to take the spotlight for himself and about he was hijacking the fans' attention when ADR should have gotten it. He could also say that the beatdown last week was his way of firing Ricardo. No sign of Ricardo to defend himself, of course.

Then at SUMMERSLAM, have a guy in street clothes and a hockey mask come out, seemingly to be on ADR's side as he takes out Christian with the Backstabber. ADR moves to take advantage, and BAM! He's leveled with both a dropkick AND the Backstabber. Then watch him take off his mask.

It's Ricardo. And as he leaves the ringside area, he has a mocking smirk on his face.

Any takers?