The Official Shawn Michaels Thread

[Paradox]

Wow, I have to give it to you takerfan, anywhere you go you start start a war....

Now I think that Hbk is arguably one of the best to ever step foot in the ring. Many may say that he is overrated. Which may be the case. It's not going to stop me from enjoying him as a wrestler. Or from me marking out when he returns. I love the guy.

Is he predictable? Yeah he can be. Look at how ling he's been going? nearly what 20 years in the wwe. We've all seen him wrestle on countless occasions thus why we know what is coming. Does it make me enjoy the match less? No why because I find the man to be entertaining. Just as I find Cena to be entertaining.

Look back on HBK's match before his injury. I don't think that many of us thought that his matches then were predictable.... We loved his match, least some of us did. Why because he was a great worker. He's been that for years. Does he use the same moves? Yeah so what. You can't expect him to go out there for nearly 20 years and expect every match to be different. I know as of late he's been putting on the same matches. I still enjoy them....

 

[Milkyway!]

How are Shawns matches not predictable?

Uh, I think you messed up when you said this. You probably meant to say "How are Shawns matches so predictable" or something of that manner. Because this contradicts the rest of your post.

Last time I checked in his fued with Hunter he won those matches with stuff other than sweet chin music.

Uh?? Which fued are we talking here?

He beat Jericho at WM 19 with a roll up from behind.

So? What your point? It was WrestleMania, Shawn wasn't being lazy.

Cena never does that stuff and neither does Hogan.

Hogan did new stuff all the time on Saturday Nights Main Event. Honestly, you've gotten lost in the Hogan myth that he only did 2-3 moves. Hogan was a good wrestler.

Cena switches things up here and there. Its quite sublimal, but he does what he has to do.

To answser your question without a doubt as much hate doing it I ALWAYS expect Cena to win, even when facing Hunter and Shawn.

Funny, Cena took the pinfall from Orton just 4 nights ago. You're incorrect.

Vince is enamored with Cena, and in the end he always comes out on top no matter who he faces.

You're wrong. I refuse to even belittle myself to debate a wrong statement.

As far as McMahon vs HBK, was it the best build up ever? No. At that point Shawn's super christian baby face gimmick was starting to wear on me a bit, and his matches started to get stale. However he channeled the OLD (pre injury) HBK in that match and put some of it in his promos since.

Lulz, just lulz. I think we've allready covered the fact that Shawn is one of the greatest professional wrestlers, when he wants to be Not even Becca can deny he seems to get lazy.

That being said that match was by far the best one McMahon has ever had. Everyone involved with the WWE has said that.

Who said this? Proof? Otherwise I don't believe you. You've allready said two false statements, without proof its really hard to believe you.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

How are Shawns matches not predictable? Last time I checked in his fued with Hunter he won those matches with stuff other than sweet chin music.

Let's go through these matches shall we....

Summerslam 2002: HBK won with a roll-up so you are right with that one.

Survivor Series 2002: HBK won the title in an EC using SCM on HHH.

Armageddon 2002: HHH won Three Stages of Hell

Royal Rumble 2004: Double count-out

Bad Blood 2004: HHH won HIAC

Taboo Tuesday 2004: HHH won

So by my recollection, HBK was 1-3-1 against HHH besides the EC match and the that match (in the singular form) he won was by a roll-up so your statement is right and wrong.

 

[JCE]

I dont think its really fair to say Shawn is lazy, we dont know is mindset and cant judge that. Could be the guy is old and busted like taker, hogan (the last few years of his career), and flair. The guy cant go out night after night doing what he did in the 90s and put on a show like orton or cena. If he did he would be out a lot longer than he is. Hogan, flair, and Sting do/did the same thing put on half ass tv shows and tear the stage up on a ppv. Lazy? who knows saving health and injuries for a ppv? most likley.

Shawn will never be better than hogan (comming from a hbk mark. cant believe i said that). Hogan was on the same level as star wars in the 80s and had way better matches than hbk's despite what jericho says on hbk's dvd (there is your proof little jerry lawler go look it up.) The whole shawn hogan thing was crap. Shawn built that whole thing up promoing cause hogan wouldnt show up. Shawn saying hogans never around and only shows for the ppv. Shawn over sold the match like crazy to mock hogan and now Shawn's doin the same thing. Half ass wrestling for tv and kills it for the ppv. Hogan wasnt lazy he was like 100 years old in 05 and just couldn't go anymore.

However to say Shawn not top 3 or 4 all time is nuttier than squerell s**t. In the 90s no one was better on the stick or in the ring (exept Brett 2 different styles cant compare that) no one was better and getting the huge face pop or comming out the next nigh and catching the biggest heat. He WAS the total package.

Cena is amazing despite his non fluid wrestling skills but he has gotten a lot better than he was even a year ago. His promos are classic the olny other negative thing i can say about the man is I haven't seen his heel work yet.

 

[SSJPhenom]

Who said this? Proof? Otherwise I don't believe you. You've allready said two false statements, without proof its really hard to believe you.

Here is your proof right here. Check it out around 5:48ish and if you don't want to watch it till it says it check it out around 9:00ish. This should be all you need and it should put this McMachon arguement to bed.

[youtube] <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/MoGH1q_TBww&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MoGH1q_TBww&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> [/youtube]

Do you need more proof?​

 

[SSJPhenom]

Shawn Michaels, by far, the best in ring performer in the WWE right now. I have said everything that I need to, to support my cause and it looks like no one has anything else to say about it. Yes, Michaels did give McMahon the match of his life, as posted above, and he still puts on the greatest matches of the year. What is there left to be said about the man?

Just admit that he is best in ring performer in the WWE today.

 

[Billie Jean]

I read his book and i must say, its a good read. HBK defines alot of things that is what having a good match is all about. Phycoligy, mentality, and for not the biggist guy he can stand up to the bigger guys, ala a beliveble rey myserio.

When i read about his drug addication and what not in the ninties i thought, screw this junkie piece of s**t. But i have grown to respect both the wrestler and the man and relised that before i might have been a tad hastey in my jugment.

He may not have drew lots, but that doesnt matter, he was entertaining to watch and could always put on a show. Staples Center or a bingo hall the man always gave his all and for that i respect. He is the Showstoppa!

 

[HBK-aholic]

I'm so excited about his return. My enthusiasm for Raw has increased ten fold, and I already loved watching it. It was one of the best returns I've seen, although yes, I am very biased. I haven't marked out for something that much in a long time.

He looked amazing in the chef outfit, he was entertaining pretending he wasn't returning, his reaction to the fire was hilarious, and when he kicked that little girl I was laughing so much I had to remind myself to breathe. Damn I am unbelievably excited about this. Raw can't come quick enough now.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

I'm so excited about his return. My enthusiasm for Raw has increased ten fold, and I already loved watching it. It was one of the best returns I've seen, although yes, I am very biased. I haven't marked out for something that much in a long time.

He looked amazing in the chef outfit, he was entertaining pretending he wasn't returning, his reaction to the fire was hilarious, and when he kicked that little girl I was laughing so much I had to remind myself to breathe. Damn I am unbelievably excited about this. Raw can't come quick enough now.

I have to admit, I am also excited for the return of HBK. However I do no feel that the re-reformation of DX is all that of a great idea. Sure, it will allow Hunter & Shawn to do something than being in the main event... but unless they job to Jerishow to promote the tag titles with prestige & eventually break up to feud with each other til WM26, it seems like a cheap ratings pop for RAW. This is despite the fact that they will entertain me comedically again as they perfectly achieved during the reformation of DX a couple of years ago.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Is there really such a thing as a cheap ratings pop? Getting higher ratings and big pops is a good thing regardless of the way they achieve it, in my opinion. Not that I think anything about the promos this week was 'cheap'. DX were very entertaining to me this week, I can't stop laughing every time I watch it. And I've watched it lots .

Not sure why they have to job to Jericho and Show, I'd love to see DX as the tag champions, and I doubt prestige could be added better than by having 2 great main eventers with a huge amount of World Championships between them looking to really care about them.

I agree they should feud leading to WM26, if that is indeed Shawns 'final' match. If not, I'd be wary of it. I think the only way they should feud again is if it's for Shawns retirement. Anything else may just be a little too much and would pretty much take away from Shawns retirement if Triple H is the one to do the honours and retire him.

 

[ztwhite]

Hey Becs - there was a live discussion during Raw last night that the girl in the skit may have been Shawn's real daughter - any idea ??

Also, was that the first time his real name has ever been mentioned on tv ?? I figure since your the "biggest" HBK fan, you may know.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Hey Becs - there was a live discussion during Raw last night that the girl in the skit may have been Shawn's real daughter - any idea ??

Also, was that the first time his real name has ever been mentioned on tv ?? I figure since your the "biggest" HBK fan, you may know.

I think Cheyenne (his daughter) has lighter hair than the girl in the promo, although to be fair I didn't pay much attention to her. Cheyenne was born August '04 I think, which would make her 4-5 at the moment, I think the girl was a little older than that. Not 100% sure, but my guess would be a no.

I'm racking my memory for another instance it was used and I can't think of one, not as blatantly as it was on Raw this week anyway.

 

[Viola Moonlight]

Oh good, you responded. I was getting bored.

Having the HBK send-off should have gone to Undertaker cultimating into the exact same match from WM25 at WM26 due the fact that he would leave in the best match ever in recent memory. Since this has already been done, I would have to give the honour to Triple H. Their feud during 2002 was absolutely epic & well thought out on the creative side of things. They can easily reproduce these type of great matches again & would be great to freshen up RAw atm. For this to happen, the inevitable Triple H heel turn must be conducted sometime down the line as a Face vs. Face feud wouldn't be as memorable as a Face vs. Heel feud.

 

[Nate DaMac]

The Hickenbottom thing was funny. Personally thought it was the funniest thing of the whole bit. The whole thing just felt very sitcomy. Not that it was bad. I actually am kind of glad that HBK didn't feel the need to make a grand return. They decided to have a little fun with it. I know on TNA when VKM were doing their little number trying to call out DX, they did end up calling them out by their real names, but I've never heard it on Raw.

 

[mareek]

The skit last night very comedy-ish but it was still good. HBK superkicking the girl and the guy was pretty cool. And the old lady saying suck it was pretty cool.

 

[KiNg_kRiSsY]

Shawn Michaels is going to get the championship before he retires. HBK said himself that he will retire at wrestlemania 26. i don't know how it's going to turn out for the heart break kid, but i'm hoping for something good

 

[Slam Master]

Shawn Michaels has had major knee surguries and major back surgery. In his heyday he was doing hurricanranas, moonsaults, fliying body presses, double axe-handles, etc....He will still do the occasional moonsault i.e. WM25 but the Undertaker dodged it. I haven't seen him do the hurricanrana since 1997 but I could be wrong. The guy is 44 and has his scars..You can't expect a guy who took as many risks as he did to still be flawless at his age...He is still in great shape and can out-perform 99% of the roster. IF he feels he can't do the move to perfection that could cause injury to his oppenent then why would he attempt it?

 

[Dave]

Shawn Michaels is going to get the championship before he retires. HBK said himself that he will retire at wrestlemania 26. i don't know how it's going to turn out for the heart break kid, but i'm hoping for something good

Please do not write stuff in lime green. In fact, try and avoid colours in general. If you are using them, it takes away from your argument and makes you look like a complete tool shed.

Onto your point though, I don't think Michaels will be Champion before he retires. Why would they want him to have it? No offence Becca but he doesn't belong there any more. Putting him to the main event picture with no build is ridiculous and it's not gonna happen. Michaels is quite content being the "Showstoppa" for the time being. You know, just whooping ass in general. I honestly can't see him getting the title against Orton, Cena or Triple H.

If he is indeed retiring at next years Wrestlemania, then I can see a feud with Triple H on the cards which may be pretty decent to send him out on. I don't see it being a title feud though but who knows, it could be.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Onto your point though, I don't think Michaels will be Champion before he retires. Why would they want him to have it? No offence Becca but he doesn't belong there any more. Putting him to the main event picture with no build is ridiculous and it's not gonna happen. Michaels is quite content being the "Showstoppa" for the time being. You know, just whooping ass in general. I honestly can't see him getting the title against Orton, Cena or Triple H.

Did I say this, or are you simply saying "No offence Becca" because you know me really well? Meh, anyway, the Shawn mark in me is saying Shawn as champion would be great. It's something I would absolutely love to see - Shawn having the belt wrapped around his waist one more time because his retirement would be heaven for a huge fan like me. That being said, I don't expect it to happen. Shawn is happy where he is and doesn't want the belt. His body won't allow it, for one thing, and secondly, he doesn't want that schedule. Shawn is wanting to be with his family more and more, which is completely understandable. He shouldn't be given the belt now, but I'd have no complaints if he did.

 

[Coco]

He honestly shouldn't retire right now. He's a got another year left in him, with breaks of course. What Michaels needs is a move to SmackDown and put CM Punk over. It's a feud that writes itself with Michaels' past problems with substance abuse. Get Punk to semi shoot on that and how it's unbecoming of a "legend" to have done what he's done and so on and it's a natural fit. Then you could throw in a SummerSlam rematch with Taker and mini-feuds with Morrison, The Hart Dynasty, and Rey and you can easily get him to WM27. However, if he is to stay on Raw he should just hang it up now. He's become worthless.

 

[HBK-aholic]

He honestly shouldn't retire right now. He's a got another year left in him, with breaks of course.

How do you know that? None of us know how Shawn feels, or the pain he could be in.

What Michaels needs is a move to SmackDown and put CM Punk over. It's a feud that writes itself with Michaels' past problems with substance abuse.

That basically sounds like what he's been doing to Hardy. If Shawn was going to feud with Punk I'd expect something a bit different, instead of once again focusing on past problems with addictions.

Then you could throw in a SummerSlam rematch with Taker

Why? They had a great match at WM, and both of them have spent moths recovering. I think having a rematch would take away from the match.

He's become worthless.

He hasn't been there for months, and his first Raw back he was very entertaining. I know you dislike Shawn so you probably won't admit that, but most people agree.

 

[Coco]

How do you know that? None of us know how Shawn feels, or the pain he could be in.

I meant creatively.

That basically sounds like what he's been doing to Hardy. If Shawn was going to feud with Punk I'd expect something a bit different, instead of once again focusing on past problems with addictions.

Michaels has the ability to argue back in a passable manner. Hardy's mic skills are awful while Michaels, despite hamming it up far too much, can get a point across. That, and Punk's gimmick has legs left on it. It won't be exactly the same feud.

Why? They had a great match at WM, and both of them have spent moths recovering.

Yeah, that has nothing to do with a gradual accumulation of injuries. That one match alone put them both on the shelf. Case closed.

I think having a rematch would take away from the match.

You're wrong. And if you're right, the match must not have been that great if a future match takes away from it.

He hasn't been there for months, and his first Raw back he was very entertaining.

Your sense of humor is highly questionable.

And now all we've got is the usual fluff where DX pretends to be funny, gives sublte insider nudges in an attempt to sound cool, and burries young guys while sucking the business dry for themselves and leaving nothing for the business once they're gone. Raw is worse off for having Michaels around, especially in DX.

I know you dislike Shawn so you probably won't admit that,

Puh-lease. For the record, you aren't exactly the greatest authority on my taste so such judgements best be saved for when you know you're correct. I have two Michaels "Best Of" DVDs in my collection along with several PPVs I've bought, in large, because of his match. That doesn't mean I won't blindly give the old hack a free pass.

but most people agree.

That doesn't make them right.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Michaels has the ability to argue back in a passable manner. Hardy's mic skills are awful while Michaels, despite hamming it up far too much, can get a point across. That, and Punk's gimmick has legs left on it. It won't be exactly the same feud.

Maybe not, but if they're going to feud, which I'm not against, I think it should be Punk doing something different. I'm sure there are plenty of angles than could be used as opposed to one Punk has only just done.

Yeah, that has nothing to do with a gradual accumulation of injuries. That one match alone put them both on the shelf. Case closed.

Never said it was solely down to that, but the match clearly took a lot out of them.

You're wrong. And if you're right, the match must not have been that great if a future match takes away from it.

The thing was so hyped up because we wanted a WM match between the 2, rather than a continued feud.

Your sense of humor is highly questionable.

That's why at least have the LD laughed at certain points in the promo.

And now all we've got is the usual fluff where DX pretends to be funny, gives sublte insider nudges in an attempt to sound cool, and burries young guys while sucking the business dry for themselves and leaving nothing for the business once they're gone. Raw is worse off for having Michaels around, especially in DX.

Sure, that's exactly what they do

Puh-lease. For the record, you aren't exactly the greatest authority on my taste so such judgements best be saved for when you know you're correct. I have two Michaels "Best Of" DVDs in my collection along with several PPVs I've bought, in large, because of his match. That doesn't mean I won't blindly give the old hack a free pass.

Which is what I meant by you not liking Shawn . I love how you argue I'm wrong, yet above stated exactly what I said - that you wouldn't say DX were good.

That doesn't make them right.

But you are, right?

 

[Coco]

Maybe not, but if they're going to feud, which I'm not against, I think it should be Punk doing something different. I'm sure there are plenty of angles than could be used as opposed to one Punk has only just done.

So you think the angle will just end after Hardy is gone? I sure don't. This looks to be a long-term thing for me, and Michaels got really gain a lot from getting involved in something so fresh. As opposed to everything he's likely to do on Raw.

The thing was so hyped up because we wanted a WM match between the 2, rather than a continued feud.

So nobody has an interest in seeing a month or two more of feuding between Michaels and Taker? That's news to me.

That's why at least have the LD laughed at certain points in the promo.

I question their sense of humor as well as their blood-alcohol content and drug use.

Sure, that's exactly what they do

Oh, and point at their dicks.

Great TV.

Which is what I meant by you not liking Shawn . I love how you argue I'm wrong, yet above stated exactly what I said

Liking someone doesn't mean they aren't liable to become an old, tired hack. Austin did it when he showed up over and over again after his retirement and added nothing to the product besides the odd beer bash. Hogan did it when he showed up to beat an active wrestler once a year and run off into the sunset. I love both, and I like Michaels, but that doesn't mean I have to pretend they haven't become hacks.

- that you wouldn't say DX were good.

Together as a team? They aren't.

But you are, right?

And I'll bravely defended that reality against the blind masses.

 

[HBK-aholic]

So you think the angle will just end after Hardy is gone? I sure don't. This looks to be a long-term thing for me, and Michaels got really gain a lot from getting involved in something so fresh. As opposed to everything he's likely to do on Raw.

Again, I'm not against a feud happening, I simpy think it'd be better if something else was used as the reasoning for it. It'll only happen if Punk moves to Raw though, because Shawn can't work Tuesdays.

So nobody has an interest in seeing a month or two more of feuding between Michaels and Taker? That's news to me.

I'm not saying there's not interest, simply that there's no point. It's over and done with.

I question their sense of humor as well as their blood-alcohol content and drug use.

Good for you.

Oh, and point at their dicks.

Great TV.

Yes, yes it is.

Liking someone doesn't mean they aren't liable to become an old, tired hack. Austin did it when he showed up over and over again after his retirement and added nothing to the product besides the odd beer bash. Hogan did it when he showed up to beat an active wrestler once a year and run off into the sunset. I love both, and I like Michaels, but that doesn't mean I have to pretend they haven't become hacks.

I just don't understand why you're calling him a hack, yet saying he'd do well with Punk.

Together as a team? They aren't.

Judging by the audiences reaction, I'd say you were in a minority.

And I'll bravely defended that reality against the blind masses.

It's the masses that count in Pro-Wrestling.