"The N-Word"

[IrishCanadian25]

When George Carlin did his famous "7 Words You Can't Say On Television" skit years ago, he was talking about 7 words that were "cuss" or "swear" words. "Dirty" words that had bad meanings and were seen as social taboos.

But none of those words was anywhere near "The N-Word."

No, the N-Word has polarized the entire nation for deacdes - even centuries- at this point. Used in the times of slavery as a put down to black slaves and as a description originally meant to mean "stupid person," whites used that word as a way to further the gap between themselves and the blacks, attempting to further relegate the blacks to a race of 2nd class citizens.

Something sociologically facinating has happened to the work in the last 20 years - as the African American subculture has adopted the word as a form of slang. Now, with SO MUCH racial sensitivity connotated in "The N-Word," rappers and actors use the word with relative ease. Conversely, when used in the wrong context or used by a white person, all hell breaks loose.

I want to discuss the meaning of "The N Word" and what place, if any, it has in decent society. I pose this question knowing full well that these boards have tremendous diversity in its posters, and we can get so many different perspectives from debating this topic. I urge you all to be honest and direct, while still respecting the sensitivity of the topic.

This discussion is being brought on by the recent controversy surrounding Jesse Jackson, who has been among the most outspoken critics of the use of the word by ANYBODY. He has often called for black rap artists to stop using the word in songs, fearing that it sets back progress. Then, during a break from an interview on Fox News recently, Jackson himself dropped "The N-Bomb."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/16/jackson.nword.ap/index.html

Dog the Bounty Hunter was crucified in the court of public opinion for his recent use of the word.

Busta Rhymes used it more than 60 times in 1997's hit album "When Disaster Strikes."

THOUGHT ON THE N-WORD?

POLL IS ANONYMOUS.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Finally. The whole controversy around this word really gets to me. I mean, I understand a word can be offensive to a group of people, and that's fair enough. Black people, white people, whoever it is. They have a right to not be called words they find offensive. As do any particular person.

HOWEVER what pisses me off is that they say it to each other yet get annoyed if someone not of their colour says it. Is that not racism in itself? Saying one group of people can use a word but another cannot?

 

[DJ]

I find this stuff stupid.Its a word.We use them every day.But the "N" Word is different than the others.If you say that your a racist.Thats stupid.I've heard my black friends say that to each other.Hell they call me the "N" word.(Wassup mah N****?).

And just reading your post..........The "N" word means stupid person?Dear god..what a world we live in.

Bottom line: Its a word.I mean people don't go ape shit when you say fuck now do they?

 

[Slim Pickns]

So many people have a double standard about this word and that pisses me off more than the actual meaning. I, as a white person, would get torn apart for using the N word, yet I have to hear it blaring from five different cars a day blasting rap music outside my gym. I'm not a fan of the word, and therefor think no one should use it.

The reason I hate the word is because its usage is unnecessary and ignorant. Ask yourself this question, how many people that have used that word to make a statement do you take seriously? If someone says "that guy needs a jump" referring to a man who's car is broken down, it sounds much better than "that n***** needs a jump."

I've heard the argument that black artists are trying to change the meaning of the word and that is why they use it often. If that is the case, why can't we all use it? If its going to be just another word, every race should be able to say it.

 

[RVDgurl]

The N word is always a very tricky topic and I don't think there is a clear cut answer to this question. I've observed over the past few years that the use of the word "*****" is acceptable to anyone who is emersed in the hip hop culture regardless of their race. The current hip hop culture doesn't use this word with a negative meaning. I hear a hundred teenager a day use the phrase "What's up, my *****". There's no negative conotation there. As a matter of fact, the word is used to signify friendship. In my opinion, it's the meaning behind the use of the word that really matters.

 

[HBK-aholic]

The N word is always a very tricky topic and I don't think there is a clear cut answer to this question. I've observed over the past few years that the use of the word "*****" is acceptable to anyone who is emersed in the hip hop culture regardless of their race. The current hip hop culture doesn't use this word with a negative meaning. I hear a hundred teenager a day use the phrase "What's up, my *****". There's no negative conotation there. As a matter of fact, the word is used to signify friendship. In my opinion, it's the meaning behind the use of the word that really matters.

This is a good way to look at it. However, if it was the meaning behind the word that mattered then white people would easily be able to go around saying it to their friends or what not, without having evil glances, possibly threats from black people.

I have a friend called Nicola. As a private joke, I've always called her "Nicwa". One day I shouted this, and 3 guys, all black, asked me what I thougt I was doing saying the N word. I was like what the fuck?

But anyway, people need to get over this word, and either allow everyone to say it, or stop fucking saying it themselves.

 

[RVDgurl]

This is a good way to look at it. However, if it was the meaning behind the word that mattered then white people would easily be able to go around saying it to their friends or what not, without having evil glances, possibly threats from black people.

I have a friend called Nicola. As a private joke, I've always called her "Nicwa". One day I shouted this, and 3 guys, all black, asked me what I thougt I was doing saying the N word. I was like what the fuck?

But anyway, people need to get over this word, and either allow everyone to say it, or stop fucking saying it themselves.

This is what I mean by hip hop culture. I live in an area where whites are the minority. White people who dress and speak in accordance with hip hop culture don't get those evil glances. It's a normal part of their vocabulary. The problem here is that you still have some disrespectful people that use the word in an ignorant way.

 

[HBK-aholic]

This is what I mean by hip hop culture. I live in an area where whites are the minority. White people who dress and speak in accordance with hip hop culture don't get those evil glances. It's a normal part of their vocabulary. The problem here is that you still have some disrespectful people that use the word in an ignorant way.

I also live in an area where whites are the minority. But if those white people do say that word, you fear being attacked. It's sadly true. It seems the problem lies with those people who think the word is "exclusive" just to them. Because it isn't. And it's something which makes a barrier between white and black people.

As I said before, if people don't want the word used against them, they shouldn't say it in the first place, making people think it is okay to say.

 

[klunderbunker]

To me this is a very interesting issue. While it's certainly not a word I use, I don't exactly wince when it's used. Some people find it fine to use, others find it offensive, and I'm somewhere in the middle. As someone else said, it bothers me when it's deemed ok for some people to use it and not for others to use it. That to me is the worst thing that can be done no matter what. How is it fair for people to use it on each other so often in jest that it's totally fine, but if someone of another race says it then it's grounds for a lawsuit. This to me shows how wrong racism can be at times. While it's definitely a touchy subject, it seems to me that at times it's created by the people who say they're offended by it. It's based on the people that are making the claims of how the word affects them, not the person that says it. To me, it's never ok, but I suppose to some it would be in some instances.

 

[Sparky]

While i choose not to use that word as i find it offensive If you was to ask me i couldnt tell you why i found it so offensive. Its funny nowdays every Black rapper says the N word at least twice in everysong. but if somebody like Eminem was to use it he would be the worst guy in the world. Its funny how at schools for instance if you was to call a fat kid fat you wouldnt get into much trouble but if you was to call a black guy the N word you would be suspended for atleast a week. What ever happend to the saying sticks and stones could break my bones but names would never hurt me? its wied that the one word is allowed to be said by Black people but as soon as a white person would be in deep shit

 

[IrishCanadian25]

There's a major reason for it, Sparky.

Calling a fat kid fat was never tied to decades of oppression and slavery. The N-Word, on the other hand, has.

Black have gotten a more raw deal in this country than ANY OTHER GROUP, and by far. The Jews, the Irish, the Muslims, the Gays, etc had some rough times in America, which helped shape the culture, but nobody suffered to the same level as the African American cultures. Hence why the word has such a deeper meaning.

Somebody else brought this up - some people say that the use of "The N-Word" by the blacks has been a form of verbal psychological warfare. They've essentially taken the word AWAY from the whites and sterilized it in their own culture, to the same level as white's use "dude."

But at the same time, they've successfully made non-blacks afraid of the word. It's basically like "you used the word for two centuries to oppress our people, well, screw you, now WE can use it and if you do you're done for." It's a total 180 degree turn on the word.

And here's the kicker - ONCE AGAIN, it's MUSIC that turned the tide. Music has such an effect on enculturation, the Hip Hop culture has been singularly responsible for turning that word around into what it is today. You can thank people like Run DMC, NWA, and Public Enemy for that, for better or worse.

 

[HBK-aholic]

There's a major reason for it, Sparky.

Calling a fat kid fat was never tied to decades of oppression and slavery. The N-Word, on the other hand, has.

Black have gotten a more raw deal in this country than ANY OTHER GROUP, and by far. The Jews, the Irish, the Muslims, the Gays, etc had some rough times in America, which helped shape the culture, but nobody suffered to the same level as the African American cultures. Hence why the word has such a deeper meaning.

Somebody else brought this up - some people say that the use of "The N-Word" by the blacks has been a form of verbal psychological warfare. They've essentially taken the word AWAY from the whites and sterilized it in their own culture, to the same level as white's use "dude."

But at the same time, they've successfully made non-blacks afraid of the word. It's basically like "you used the word for two centuries to oppress our people, well, screw you, now WE can use it and if you do you're done for." It's a total 180 degree turn on the word.

Sorry, but people need to give up on the slavery stuff now. It wasn't us that did it. I didn't buy black people to use as a slave. It happened a very long time ago. And yes it's unfair and shouldn't have happened. But quite a few times I've heard people say "Well black people were slaves.." etc. I don't care, I'm sorry but it's no excuse now for them deciding to stop a certain race saying a word.

I'm not sure if this is what you were getting at or not Irish, but what you said reminded me of these points.

 

[travis_touchdown]

A significant fact found in this thread: Perspective determines the level of an individual’s sensitivity. Any reaction toward the word would be a result of that person’s viewpoint. So I believe that it’s unfair to make a generalization (ex: “blacks would…”) about the issue.

RVDgurl brought forth the point that not all blacks are [extremely] sensitive toward this term. I can also attest to this fact. I have seen different races [Asians, Indians, and even Hawaiians] use the term without a threatening backlash.

However, with some, I agree that it appears the word’s acceptance is feigned. I can remember a Greek child making the decision to say the word because it seemed harmless. And as a result, he was told to refrain from use.

My own view: I’m not fond of the word and have made sure not to pick up the habit of using it.

 

[THE Madcap]

There's a major reason for it, Sparky.

Calling a fat kid fat was never tied to decades of oppression and slavery. The N-Word, on the other hand, has.

Black have gotten a more raw deal in this country than ANY OTHER GROUP, and by far. The Jews, the Irish, the Muslims, the Gays, etc had some rough times in America, which helped shape the culture, but nobody suffered to the same level as the African American cultures. Hence why the word has such a deeper meaning.

Somebody else brought this up - some people say that the use of "The N-Word" by the blacks has been a form of verbal psychological warfare. They've essentially taken the word AWAY from the whites and sterilized it in their own culture, to the same level as white's use "dude."

But at the same time, they've successfully made non-blacks afraid of the word. It's basically like "you used the word for two centuries to oppress our people, well, screw you, now WE can use it and if you do you're done for." It's a total 180 degree turn on the word.

And here's the kicker - ONCE AGAIN, it's MUSIC that turned the tide. Music has such an effect on enculturation, the Hip Hop culture has been singularly responsible for turning that word around into what it is today. You can thank people like Run DMC, NWA, and Public Enemy for that, for better or worse.

Tried to rep you on this post, but I need to spread more love.

As a black person, I hate the word and any derivative of the word, *****, nugga, nukka etc and I would never use it. Because of it's history and negative connotation, it is by far the worst swear word in the English language and I really don't understand why a black person, let alone a white person would want to use it.

I also, partly because of this do not see what the massive issue is with white people not being able to use it. The old school version of the word, is a derogatory, racist term for a black person. The new school version, whilst spelt differently, sounds the same and thus if used by a white person, it is impossible to tell which meaning is being used. Also, because racism is an implied position of power on the basis of race, it is impossible for a black person to use the term to another black person and it be deemed racist.

I for one will not allow my kids to ever use this word and will do my utmost to make them understand the original true meaning of it.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Tried to rep you on this post, but I need to spread more love.

As a black person, I hate the word and any derivative of the word, *****, nugga, nukka etc and I would never use it. Because of it's history and negative connotation, it is by far the worst swear word in the English language and I really don't understand why a black person, let alone a white person would want to use it.

I also, partly because of this do not see what the massive issue is with white people not being able to use it. The old school version of the word, is a derogatory, racist term for a black person. The new school version, whilst spelt differently, sounds the same and thus if used by a white person, it is impossible to tell which meaning is being used. Also, because racism is an implied position of power on the basis of race, it is impossible for a black person to use the term to another black person and it be deemed racist.

I for one will not allow my kids to ever use this word and will do my utmost to make them understand the original true meaning of it.

I don't ever want to use to the word either. I never have and I never will. But to me it's a case of anyone can use it, or no one can. Because all black people are doing in saying white people can't use it is being racist. Because isn't excluding a particular group from something racism?

The new school version, whilst spelt differently, sounds the same and thus if used by a white person, it is impossible to tell which meaning is being used.

I really don't agree with this. It's impossible what way it is used? That's completely definitely not true in most cases. Say I was in a full blown argument with a black person, and come out with something offensive surrounding that word. That way, you kno wI meant it offensive.

Then if I randomly said to a friend "What's up..." finishing with that word, how could you think I mean that offensively, when many black people use that word on a daily basis in that context?

I aren't saying all black people do this, as I know they don't. But many do.

 

[THE Madcap]

Then if I randomly said to a friend "What's up..." finishing with that word, how could you think I mean that offensively, when many black people use that word on a daily basis in that context?

I aren't saying all black people do this, as I know they don't. But many do.

In my opinion, the decision as to whether this is acceptable or not is solely dependent on your relationship with that person. One of my good white mates called me his "*****" last night, but I knew from the context in which he said it, that he wasn't being racist and that in the context of our friendship, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable. However, if Joe Bloggs walking past on the street said it to me, white or black I would feel offended (however more so if JB was white) on the basis that there is no understanding between me and said person and no relationship between me and that person for it to be anyhting but a disrespectful comment.

 

[HBK-aholic]

In my opinion, the decision as to whether this is acceptable or not is solely dependent on your relationship with that person. One of my good white mates called me his "*****" last night, but I knew from the context in which he said it, that he wasn't being racist and that in the context of our friendship, I wouldn't feel uncomfortable. However, if Joe Bloggs walking past on the street said it to me, white or black I would feel offended (however more so if JB was white) on the basis that there is no understanding between me and said person and no relationship between me and that person for it to be anyhting but a disrespectful comment.

This in itself really says it all, and it's things like this that make me say I feel it's racism to exclude one group from saying a word.

If someone said something which offended me, I wouldn't care if they were black, white, or pink with green dots on. The point I'm trying to make is that, if a word is offensive it should be offensive all the time, regardless of who says it.

You can't be offended when someone says a word to you that you say to your friends all day long. That just makes people think it's okay to say.

EDIT: When I say you, I don't mean you personally. I mean in general.

 

[THE Madcap]

This in itself really says it all, and it's things like this that make me say I feel it's racism to exclude one group from saying a word.

If someone said something which offended me, I wouldn't care if they were black, white, or pink with green dots on. The point I'm trying to make is that, if a word is offensive it should be offensive all the time, regardless of who says it.

You can't be offended when someone says a word to you that you say to your friends all day long. That just makes people think it's okay to say.

EDIT: When I say you, I don't mean you personally. I mean in general.

That's fine Becca, I understand the point you're making and where you're coming from. It is hard for me to explain but the way I think and see things is there's only 1 way a black person can go when using that word, whereas for a non black person there's 2. If it's from someone you don't know who isn't black, you will tend to think the worst if they dropped an N-bomb, from a historical context. This may change in generations to come and I hope it does, but I can't see it happening anytime soon.

 

[FromTheSouth]

First off all, Jews, throughout history, have had it far worse than anyone, ever. We have faced fucking genocide three times, at least, and slavery for a thousand years in the the desert. We built the pyramids in the Egyptian desert. At least there's winter in Alabama. Jews have had it far worse. Saying you're going to Jew someone down or someone has a jew nose seems to be ok with you people, and that is bullshit. It that's ok, then I can use the n-word whenever the fuck I please.

But the n-word and saying someone is getting jewed are the same thing. If you choose to use them, be prepared for the consequences. If you want to run into the southside of Houston saying ****** this and that, be ready to get beat down.

Personally, I don't care if someone says they got jewed, but that's because I have accepted that it is just a word, and means nothing. No one is going to respond to getting jewed by putting me into a concentration camp.

 

[HBK-aholic]

First off all, Jews, throughout history, have had it far worse than anyone, ever. We have faced fucking genocide three times, at least, and slavery for a thousand years in the the desert. We built the pyramids in the Egyptian desert. At least there's winter in Alabama. Jews have had it far worse. Saying you're going to Jew someone down or someone has a jew nose seems to be ok with you people, and that is bullshit. It that's ok, then I can use the n-word whenever the fuck I please.

But the n-word and saying someone is getting jewed are the same thing. If you choose to use them, be prepared for the consequences. If you want to run into the southside of Houston saying ****** this and that, be ready to get beat down.

Personally, I don't care if someone says they got jewed, but that's because I have accepted that it is just a word, and means nothing. No one is going to respond to getting jewed by putting me into a concentration camp.

I agree with you. I think what Jewish people went through is just as bad as what black people have been through, yet it is often overlooked.

And no, people should never say any racist remarks about Jewish people either. ANY racist remark is unacceptable regardless of who says it and when they say it. The reason these remarks aren't more publicised as being wrong, are because Jewish people don't go around saying them to each other. And anyone who does say it, usually, is or should be punished. However with the N-word that isn't the case, and instead many people can say it without anyone batting an eyelid.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

First off all, Jews, throughout history, have had it far worse than anyone, ever. We have faced fucking genocide three times, at least, and slavery for a thousand years in the the desert. We built the pyramids in the Egyptian desert. At least there's winter in Alabama. Jews have had it far worse. Saying you're going to Jew someone down or someone has a jew nose seems to be ok with you people, and that is bullshit. It that's ok, then I can use the n-word whenever the fuck I please.

But the n-word and saying someone is getting jewed are the same thing. If you choose to use them, be prepared for the consequences. If you want to run into the southside of Houston saying ****** this and that, be ready to get beat down.

Personally, I don't care if someone says they got jewed, but that's because I have accepted that it is just a word, and means nothing. No one is going to respond to getting jewed by putting me into a concentration camp.

If this is in response to my earlier post about the oppression of the blacks, then please note my EXACT words - "in this country." World-wide, yes, Jews have unequivocally gone through some of the worst times in history. The United States, with the exception of the early going laizzez-faire attitude towards the holocaust, has been a generally friendly place for Jewish people. But you're absolutely right - Jews deserve better than the racist terms they get.

There's a different cultural level here though. The "N-Word" is FAR more prevalent in music, film, and overall pop culture now-a-days than any Jewish slur or stereotype is.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Exactly, people say they jewed someone down on a price without batting an eyelid as well. The problem isn't that it's being said, it's that people don't understand context.

Stereotypes come from somewhere. No one just woke up and said, "Today we're going to arrest blacks and hope it catches on, and then we'll call some Jews cheap, and then we'll wake up some Mexicans because they are all napping." Every race has it's less desirables, and then problem is that those groups are the one's people notice. No one sees a black guy and assumes he is going to be secretary of state, even the last two were black. They see the criminals, and call all blacks the n-word to illustrate the ignorance of some. We probably shouldn't use the words, but they've entered the lexicon and have lost the impact that they used to have.

If this is in response to my earlier post about the oppression of the blacks, then please note my EXACT words - "in this country." World-wide, yes, Jews have unequivocally gone through some of the worst times in history. The United States, with the exception of the early going laizzez-faire attitude towards the holocaust, has been a generally friendly place for Jewish people. But you're absolutely right - Jews deserve better than the racist terms they get.

There's a different cultural level here though. The "N-Word" is FAR more prevalent in music, film, and overall pop culture now-a-days than any Jewish slur or stereotype is.

No, it wasn't a response to you. I read your post and agree with you. Your post was inspiration, but I am not arguing you. All I wanted to say was that the Jews have had it just as bad, but there is no outcry in the media, like the incident on the View. The Jews don't get the treatment on film like blacks, but that is partly because we don't walk around saying what's up kike to each other.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

No, it wasn't a response to you. I read your post and agree with you. Your post was inspiration, but I am not arguing you. All I wanted to say was that the Jews have had it just as bad, but there is no outcry in the media, like the incident on the View. The Jews don't get the treatment on film like blacks, but that is partly because we don't walk around saying what's up kike to each other.

So either way, we agree. I wasn't reacting to what I thought was a debate, more so just clarifying my point. Looking back, I came off a bit confrontational.

One of my bosses at work is an unorthodox Jew, and he explained to me a lot about the source of the "cheap" stereotype being a result of how many times the Jewish people have had their possessions and rights stolen throughout history by other groups. It's created a tendency to want to hold on to what they've earned, so it's a perfectly reasonable reaction to a history of being robbed blind.

And you're right, comments about Jews do slide under the radar, because the Jewish people don't have an Al Sharpton crying to the heavens everytime someone makes an innappropriate comment about the Jews.

 

[FromTheSouth]

And you're right, comments about Jews do slide under the radar, because the Jewish people don't have an Al Sharpton crying to the heavens everytime someone makes an innappropriate comment about the Jews.

Could you imagine Woody Allen whining to Shepard Smith every time someone "jewed" down the price of a car? Annooooooooooyyyyyyyying (say that nasally).

You weren't being confrontational.

Please don't get me for spamming.....

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I dont give a FUCK

lets go through the various layers of this.

1. Its just a fucking word. seriously. for fucks sake. aword only has as much power as you give it. If no one freaked out about this word, then I promise on everything, people would stop saying it. If someone calls you a doofus, you look at them like they are a fucking moron. Same thing. Its fucking 2008. at least 6 of the top 10 richest people in america are black. fucking let it go

2. Black people say it to each other incessantly. Honestly. I cant go a day without hearing this word a good 20 times. How can the word be so laborious and hurtfull, but people can say it to each other so much all day, and as a term of endearment for the most part?? And im supposed to have sympathy??? Or sensitivity to this?? Are you kidding?? Its also contradictory reverse racism. So, you mean to tell me, that your allowed to say a word, and im not, but you can say it becuase your black, but I cant say it becuase im white?? THATS RACIST AS A MOTHERFUCKER. Stupid.

I dont use the word, becuase it is a useless word for the most part. it means "ignorant person" or something to that effect. I can think of tons of other much funnier things to call someone than the "N" word. But its the same as most racist remarks. They only have the power you allow them to. If someone called me a "cracker" or "honky" I would fucking laugh at them. You can call the person using those words ignorant for using them, but what does that make the individual who lets those words get them all fired up??