The more delusional fans: Mr. Kennedy in 2007 or Ziggler fans today?
- Thread starter Slyfox696
- Start date
This keeps getting said over and over. I would argue that Ziggler really isn't any better than Anderson. Those who keep making this argument kind of go along with the delusion I was referring to.
Good Golly It's Ollie
Magical Girl
Ok fair enough; but "delusion" is a bit strong here I think. I've seen Anderson cited as the next Stone Cold - a bit much, I completely agree - but I don't see any Ziggler fans kidding themselves in the same kind of way.
Top 5? I enjoy Ziggler, but he's not a top 5 guy. I can't decide who's more delusional, but I couldn't stand Kennedy.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Actually the point is that they were successful because they had enough of these people that you noticed. Spare us another root for the overdogs speech. Basically all you have done here is list guys that did not quite get to the top for completely different reasons and belittle their fanbase for having the audacity to enjoy someone that you didn't. Are you saying Vince McMahon among others was delusional? Because he came extremely close to making Anderson a major player with plans set in place to do it etc. Pre-injury history there was nothing delusional about liking Anderson as an up and comer. Even after that exaggerated saga, I fail to see what is so horrible about him other than politics drove him out of the company. Ziggler is still young. His fanbase seems to enjoy him for the "right" reasons, supposing such a thing existed. What is the problem?
Yeah. It's Kurt Angle though, the guy can pull a great match from anybody.
That's a myth.
So you agree Kennedy was the next Stone Cold and Ziggler is a Top 5 wrestler?
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Ziggler, with Vickie, could be an entertaining World Champion. Ken Anderson is nearly unwatchable, so yeah, his fans are worse.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Nick is alive. Good to know. I bet he thought Anderson was more talented than he is letting on in 2007.
No but I disagree that such an opinion categorizes all of either of those guys fans. There are some people that think Cena is the next Hogan and a top 5 in-ring wrestler after all. If you want to spend all your time worrying about silly statements of one person here or there I suggest you start with those.
Anderson never got a chance to try his hand at the top and Ziggler is probably one of the best in-ring wrestlers in WWE so who knows.
No but I disagree that such an opinion categorizes all of either of those guys fans. There are some people that think Cena is the next Hogan and a top 5 in-ring wrestler after all. If you want to spend all your time worrying about silly statements of one person here or there I suggest you start with those.
Anderson never got a chance to try his hand at the top and Ziggler is probably one of the best in-ring wrestlers in WWE so who knows.
Big Nick Dudley
Nick
Ken Anderson, in 2007, wasn't the most annoying person on television. He wasn't anything special, but he didn't make me want to change the channel. Then again, he hasn't been talking as much lately, so my hatred level has dropped.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
If you like Ziggler, you are DELUSIONAL. Have you seen how small his arms are? There is no such thing as a variety of reasons to enjoy a performer.
I enjoy Dolph, but I'll admit that he has a lot of work to do at putting on matches. If he's not working with a top notch wrestler, his matches can be range from fun but nonsensical to sloppy as shit.
Kennedy, on the other hand, blows in every aspect of wrestling. He has a decent look and voice, but his promo skills hover somewhere below average, and his wrestling skills are still stuck in shitsville.
So based on the ability of their favorite wrestler, Ziggler fans are at least a little less delusional than Kennedy fans.
Ziggler also seems to be featured in more prominent roles than Kennedy was in 2007, especially because he lost the MitB briefcase just a mere month after he won it. At least Ziggler has had a steady US Title Reign, a good title feud with Edge, and has worked with top names in the company.
Kennedy fans in 2007 are more delusional.
Kennedy, on the other hand, blows in every aspect of wrestling. He has a decent look and voice, but his promo skills hover somewhere below average, and his wrestling skills are still stuck in shitsville.
So based on the ability of their favorite wrestler, Ziggler fans are at least a little less delusional than Kennedy fans.
Ziggler also seems to be featured in more prominent roles than Kennedy was in 2007, especially because he lost the MitB briefcase just a mere month after he won it. At least Ziggler has had a steady US Title Reign, a good title feud with Edge, and has worked with top names in the company.
Kennedy fans in 2007 are more delusional.
Since I said it too, I may as well respond. Anderson is average or below at pretty much every aspect of the buisness and has a nack for fucking up every time he's in the spotlight. Ziggler, if nothing else is above average at selling, which puts him above Kennedy in my books.
I'll also say that Ziggler entertains me a hell of a lot more than Kennedy ever has, which means he must be a better performer in some key regards.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
I'm still waiting to hear how that makes them "mediocre" talents. I also don't understand how being a zealous fan means you know nothing about prowrestling. I had to spread rep for the first time just to give Gelgarin credit because he pretty much nailed the situation. There are some delusional fans but haters are usually, somewhat ironically, even more blind than the followers.
And hence me disagreeing with you in it
And I disagree with you, hence the thread.
And hence me disagreeing with you in it
And hence me disagreeing with you in it
Great, thank you for telling everyone in the thread you have no opinion on this particular subject, since you disagree with the opening premise. Inspiring stuff really. Your (lack of) opinion is highly valued.
George Steele's Barber
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Delusion exists is both camps but Ziggler fans are more delusional. Kennedy has/had charisma in 2007 and could clearly play heel or face. His injuries and carelessness could be overlooked as flukes and his wrestling was something that you could tell yourself could be improved (see Miz).
Ziggler has little charisma and unless he has some high flying moves hiding in his arsenal he certainly does not have the personality or look to be a popular face.
I am wrong about certain guys ceiling (see Orton, Randy) but am proud to say I never saw much in these two.
Btw, good question.
Ziggler has little charisma and unless he has some high flying moves hiding in his arsenal he certainly does not have the personality or look to be a popular face.
I am wrong about certain guys ceiling (see Orton, Randy) but am proud to say I never saw much in these two.
Btw, good question.
Wade's Public Transit Bomb
Championship Contender
Dolph's fans forget he sounds like a 10 year old girl and is as naturally interesting as said 10 year old girl's homework. And Anderson's fans seem to think he is the greatest mic work because he uses a lot of profanity and that is cool to a bunch of teenagers.
Imma say Ziggles' fans. He probably has more, thus one of the few times quantity overrides quality in theory.
Imma say Ziggles' fans. He probably has more, thus one of the few times quantity overrides quality in theory.
What about Ziggler and/or Kennedy fans make them delusional? If what makes a Kennedy fan delusional is at any point in time thinking that he is/was or ever will be the "next stone cold" or one of the best of all time on the mic, then that is the greater delusion, but how many people actually ever thought that? I can't name any. And at the same time, if what makes a Ziggler fan delusional is at any point in time thinking that he is a top 5 wrestler today, then that IS a delusion, but not nearly to the degree as Kennedy. At the same time, though, more people will say Ziggler is top 5 today than will say Kennedy is one of the greatest ever on the mic or was ever the "next stone cold". Ziggler isn't top 5 today because he isn't in the main event scene. Has he ever been top 5? Possibly, back when he was feuding with Edge, but at the same time he looked like a clear notch or two below Edge on the WWE ladder during that feud. Ziggler has potential, that's all his fans see in him, and anybody claiming that he's top 5 is kidding themselves. Because of that, I'll go with Ziggler fans as more delusional.
That being said, I'm a Ziggler fan and I don't see him as top 5, or even top 10 in the WWE right now. I like what he's doing on Zack Ryder's youtube show and he works well in the ring - he's a bump machine and that's something that even the greats like Shawn Michaels probably admire.
That being said, I'm a Ziggler fan and I don't see him as top 5, or even top 10 in the WWE right now. I like what he's doing on Zack Ryder's youtube show and he works well in the ring - he's a bump machine and that's something that even the greats like Shawn Michaels probably admire.
Hollywood Naitch
The current reigning and defending
I think Kennedy fans were worse, it was obvious he was never going to step up to the next level. He was repetative, injury prone and didn't have a good look.
Ziggler has much more potential if he would only change that horrific ring name. He is not a top 5 wrestler yet though
Ziggler has much more potential if he would only change that horrific ring name. He is not a top 5 wrestler yet though
DirtyJosé
Best angle of all: retirement
Upon first getting back into wrestling again around that time, Kennedy stuck out to me as someone to watch. Does that make me one of the fans Sly speaks of? I think not. I like him. I'd like to see him do better things. I'd like to see him somewhere where his natural charisma is focused better. I don't think that equals me thinking HE'S THE NEXT STONE COLD, or HE'S THE BEST EVAR, OMG!
Ziggler I'm less enthusiastic about. He's not total shit, but I've yet to really see him out on his own two legs for a long while without the Vickie crutch.
Considering how often I see the HE'S THE NEW HBK comments, including in this thread, and also taking into account that I was not a participant in online wrestling discussion in 2007 so I know fuck all about whatever you had to deal with then, I'm going to go with Ziggler fans as the winners/losers of this thread's question.