The Mis-Adventures Of Sin Cara

[asiatic7]

Hello Posters, This thread is about Sin Cara's career s a WWE superstar. This is not meant to knock or glorify his career but simlpy examine and make an assessment based on what we've seen so far.
For the most part, Sin Cara's career has been, stop-and-go for a little over a year. Sin Cara shows pockets of brilliants when matched correctly with someone who can keep up with the luchador style and he has also notched some noteworthy Botchamania moments.
From the time he stepped foot in the WWE he had his detractors: He can't wrestle the WWE style, He's HHH's pet project, he's difficult to get along with, he's arrogant, he's here to take Rey's spot...etc.
Just recently, I read on Wrestlezone.com that Dolph Ziggler has major heat with Sin Cara because Sin Cara botched a critical spot in their MITB ladder match. That got me thinking about his overall run thus far. He debuted to much fanfare, lots of effort was put into his matches to make them seem unique and different: The spring board entrance and pyro, the dim lighting during the matches. A few months after his debut, he was busted for Steroids and suffered a 30 day suspension. When he came back, he was put into an interesting feud with Sin Cara Negro (Hunico) that I belive should have been a little longer, Great storyline.
Not long after that, He injured himself in a SSeries elimination match, suffering a tendon rupture...Stop again. Now Go!
Six months later, WWE is investing in the Sin Cara character again. If I did have a great amount of interest in this character, I'd be pretty hesitant right now. You never know what might happen to him in another couple of months. Also, why does WWE blatantly refuse to acknowledge that Rey Mysterio exsists at the same time as Sin Cara? I think a future match between these two great Lucha warriors is inevitable!
So, in closing, do you think WWE is putting to much money into the Sin Cara project? Are you a fan of the character? Do you think Sin Cara's push is an overall bust so far?
What are your thoughts?

 

[Jerichoholic8894]

do you think WWE is putting to much money into the Sin Cara project? I can't find any reason he's in the WWE other than a merchandise monkey (For lack of a better term)

Are you a fan of the character? No, he's a poor mans Rey Mysterio

Do you think Sin Cara's push is an overall bust so far? Absolutly, nobody remotly cares about Sin Cara, IMO the only reason he's lasted on Smackdown is the kids like him and he sells merchandise

I don't want to appear to be bashing Sin Cara, too me there is just no point, I guess there is nothing to have an opinion on. He's just another guy to me.

 

[mrpops]

Sin cara needs to be fired soon before he kills someone. He botches every single match atleast once and hes lucky no one has died. He almost killed ziggler at MITB. That shouldve been the last straw. Does WWE not care about safety anymore?

 

[tystra09]

Sin Cara...

I have to say sadly that I do agree with Jerichoholic8894 said above. The guy is there to give the kids another thing to cheer about besides John Cena. I liked Sin Cara at first, but too many botches, too many mess ups.

However, this most recent thing with Dolph Ziggler I have to say is just stupid. I will say I never did like Ziggler, though I respected his work ethic. Now he is getting angry with accidents that was out of someone else's control? Dolph is starting to show that he is just too spoiled. Again, great in-ring worker, but a brat when it comes to mistakes.

Off topic though. Sin Cara overall has been a bust. Can they recover using Sin Cara in different feuds? Of course. Put him with/against Rey Mysterio. Have them tag team or something. Heck, put him in a tag team with Mark Henry when he comes back XD (Just kidding)

 

[lavitz66]

I can't complain about Sin Cara at all. I'm not a huge fan of the "unique lighting" and all that bs. Simple fact is that the WWE is at fault for any mis-doings. If he botches a spot because the other talent can't keep up with what he's doing, that's not his fault. The writers, and ultimately the man in charge are the ones who OK all of that. If they want him to be more "WWE styled", then they should do everything they can to get him to that point, but they don't. The only bad botch that I'd say was him was when he blew out his knee... that was a pretty sad sight. And to the "poor man's Rey Mysterio" comment, I'm not quite sure where that idea would come from.. Rey is great, but he's not the best in the world at anything really. He's another person who after injury here, injury there, is exactly where you say Sin Cara is.. he's sells merch.
So in short, WWE is stupid.. go down and watch true luchador matches, and you'll see why WWE wanted Sin Cara to work out so well, but they've got their heads so far up their own asses that they're trying to finish a puzzle with one piece... and I for one can't fault the talent for that.

 

[UltimateHitman]

I like Sin Cara and think he gets a bum rap.

Sin Cara's wellness policy violation was due to miscommunication from what I understand. I do believe he even had a scrip. Something he had been taking for his knee or some such thing like that.

Also, we heard from the get-go that he was having issues seeing through the mask with the lighting the way it was. I'm pretty sure that had to do with a few of the early botches. I would hope they had fixed that issue pretty quickly.

As far as the springboard entrance goes, there was just as much fault, if not more, with the guys setting up the trampoline. From what I understand, and I read it here on WZ, was that they would have somebody set it out there and sometimes it would be too close to the ring or what have you.

And the Ziggler thing? Most of what I've read (haven't seen it) points to it being more Ziggler's fault than Cara's. At the very least it was a simple mistake which he could not correct because he was already in the process of the move. Again, bum rap.

A couple people have pointed out a number of other things that factor into the equation so I won't go into them again. The simple fact is that I believe Sin Cara is being given a bum rap from the IWC all the way to Titan Towers and is a character that is a breath of fresh air in the company. He's one of those "super hero" type gimmicks that made wrestling fun. He should be as big as Rey here in the U.S., and I hope he is eventually.

I do wish he'd go back to the light blue outfit, though. The red just isn't the same.

 

[Kizzani]

Let's start with I am big mistico fan. The things he can do in the ring are amazing.
Now to start let's see what is wrong. First there is a language barrier, second he is in the wwe. Where really the Cruiser weight division is all but dead, almost as dead as the Tag team division. Not many are willing to wrestle a fast paced match.

If Sin Cara is still a rey replacement and soon enough Sin Cara can turn heel and attack Rey ( helping Del Rio). This leads to WMaskamania which is what vicne wanted all along. Rey V Cara choose your mask. This will get all the kids happy. ( if you haven't notice the wrestling is going more kiddie, soon wwe will be rated G.....hey then TNA can rise)

Sin Cara will be great for the Cruiser weight show and that is the only reason to keep him on. Unless he is going to hang out with Scott Stiener and Barry Bonds and claim he is big shows size because of working out.

 

[mesl]

One issue with Sin Cara is his lack of ringwork due to injury, suspension, quick wins.. Perhaps they need to make him the whipping boy for a while until he developes his 'touch' in the WWE, let him get beat..

Sin Cara will probably grow on people over time if they dropped his current gimic and just let him wrestle lower/mid card.. He is quick, he can fly, and he does have a unique move set no other WWE superstar has.

Hopefully they lose the gimic and give that a trial before they throw him to the curb... And most importantly, make a rule his first 5 moves can't be a damn variation on an armdrag takedown... That is annoying

 

[HBKistheHOF]

I think you somewhat answered your own question.

He get's hurt alot. He is known to botch. His lighting bugs most people. And the talent seem to have trouble working with him.

I think he will continue to follow a simular path as Kofi Kingston. Have no major storylines but that smaller guy that sells merch that every now and again might get stuck in a tag team. Only problem is I see even less gold and even less relevance in his future.

I think out of all the new and returning talent, Sin Cara is the only one we will bascially get the same thing we have been getting since he debuted - minor feuds with guys like Hunico that can work him and alot of multiple superstar MitB/Team/Tag Team matches for face time more or less.

Agent: "Vince we gotta put a guy in the MitB ladder match last minute. Who you like for it?"

Vince: "Well Ryback get's me all rev'd up but that Sin Cara has ALOT of shirts & masks for people to buy! Not to mention you know me and seeing small guys getting bullied."

"P.S. for some reason I feel threatened by Jim Ross."

 

[smizzy]

He sure can cut a hell of a promo!

Oh wait - that's right.. the guy doesn't speak a shred of English. The only way he can put together a passable match is with the aid of a spanish opponent and ref duo.

The report on wrestlezone about Ziggler being furious with Sin Cara where some luchador mark was siding with Sin Cara saying it was Ziggler's fault for slipping and how Sin Cara doesn't have ESP...umm, no jackass, Sin Cara doesn't have SAP.

Sure, he performs some refreshing moves, maneuvers we aren't use to seeing everyday. But it's like a circus moving through town. We are seeing something interesting, but it's just for show. He has no build to his matches, doesn't tell stories in his matches, we don't know much about him or his character resulting in a tough guy to root for.

 

[rge2010]

First things first, it was Zigglers fault about the botched spot at MITB. And who the hell does he think he is complaining? Randy Orton?!

I like Sin Cara, he can entertain if matched with the correct people. They need a Cruiserweight division

 

[TheChosenOne10]

In my opinion Sin Cara has been a bust. He is shoved down our throats and treated like he is something special with the mood lighting and the way the announcers hype him up. He is a talented wrestler but he just can't seem to work the WWE style. He shouldn't be in singles competition at the moment. I think this guys best bet is to ditch the mood lighting, team up with Rey and go after the tag belts for a bit until they split and feud together....

Also I say team up with Rey for the obvious reasons like he is suppose to "replace" Rey, both luchardors and mainly because Rey is getting up there in age he can't work the matches he once did, and Cara is still so green to this style he can't work them alone. Maybe this would help him learn the style better and stop botching every other match.

 

[The Death Rattle]

I believe a lot of the detractors of Sin Cara place way too much focus on the fact that he botches moves. The truth is every single wrestler is guilty of that. Every single one. Sin Cara's are more glaring due to the fact that he performs a much more high risk style then anyone else in the WWE. Yes, he is responsible for his performance and needs to continue to acclimate himself to WWE style. But he is going to be more likely to botch moves. Look at his moveset. There is going to be instances when something goes wrong. Let's use someone like Big Show to compare. Is there anything in his moveset that is going to lead to these situations? Simply put, no. Someone who is more similar to him, like say Rey Mysterio, has a higher botch rate as well.

Sin Cara was a big international star when WWE brought him in. How many threads have been devoted to blasting WWE for their lack of midcard talent, or pushing the same wrestlers, or their wrestlers have the same look/mannerisms/style? Like him or not, Sin Cara is an effort to change some of that. He alone isn't the answer, but he is certainly a step in the right direction. It's not like he has been on the roster for a decade with no sign of improvement. It took Mark Henry longer then that to finally realize any of his potential. Once he did, he was one of the most effective heel champions in recent memory. It's asinine to want to "cut losses" with him so early in his career.

Lastly I've read posts that said Sin Cara was "just there" to move merchandise. Well, that's a rather valuable commodity to have. After all, wrestling is a business. The goal of any successful business is to make money. Sin Cara is far from a top tier star for the WWE but is still profitable for them. Despite his struggles he is still paying off for them. So let's pretend WWE follows what's been suggested by others and let him go. Should WWE release all the other wrestlers on the roster who don't bring in what he does? That would be very detrimental to the WWE business model.

Patience is the key here. As we all know, some wrestlers take longer then others to solidify themselves. Sin Cara is barely past his "rookie" year with WWE. Let's give him the chance to become in WWE what he was in Mexico.

 

[Mr.Wrestlemania]

Forget it, no matter what's said here...Sin Cara will still remain apart of the WWE roster.

Don't mind the botches, I'm sure everyone will be entitled to make a fair amount of mistakes, because when it comes to professional wrestling...the word "perfection" is nonexistent. You can't just expect Mr. Cara or any other high-flyers to land these maneuvers always 100% safe, it's still gonna hurt both wrestlers from the impact either way.

If Dolph Ziggler wants to bitch and moan about this to WWE management like a true puss, he has another thing coming, because that basically means he's really just only complaining about the damn job that he applied for. Of course it's going to hurt you crybaby, get over it! Your a damn wrestler, expect more pain and injuries in the near future, not everything can be avoided in the ring after all.

You think Mick Foley bitched when ever he got injured by various wrestlers? No, he loves wrestling and he'd take plenty of more bumps even if he didn't get paid millions of dollars. Steve Austin? No, I'm pretty sure when Owen Hart broke his neck, I don't recall him crying to WWE about firing Owen, now did he? Point is, Ziggler needs to just cool his jets before the WWE "Creative" Team makes him lose the briefcase to Brodus Clay sooner or later.

Just wanted to give my thoughts, because even though Sin Cara isn't the best in-ring performer at the moment, who says he can't improve in time?

 

[dakikko049]

Forget it, no matter what's said here...Sin Cara will still remain apart of the WWE roster.

Don't mind the botches, I'm sure everyone will be entitled to make a fair amount of mistakes, because when it comes to professional wrestling...the word "perfection" is nonexistent. You can't just expect Mr. Cara or any other high-flyers to land these maneuvers always 100% safe, it's still gonna hurt both wrestlers from the impact either way.

If Dolph Ziggler wants to bitch and moan about this to WWE management like a true puss, he has another thing coming, because that basically means he's really just only complaining about the damn job that he applied for. Of course it's going to hurt you crybaby, get over it! Your a damn wrestler, expect more pain and injuries in the near future, not everything can be avoided in the ring after all.

You think Mick Foley bitched when ever he got injured by various wrestlers? No, he loves wrestling and he'd take plenty of more bumps even if he didn't get paid millions of dollars. Steve Austin? No, I'm pretty sure when Owen Hart broke his neck, I don't recall him crying to WWE about firing Owen, now did he? Point is, Ziggler needs to just cool his jets before the WWE "Creative" Team makes him lose the briefcase to Brodus Clay sooner or later.

Just wanted to give my thoughts, because even though Sin Cara isn't the best in-ring performer at the moment, who says he can't improve in time?

Ziggler wasn't complaining because he took a bump and got hurt, he's complaining because he felt Sin Cara didn't protect him from seriously hurting himself. Foley got hurt because he agreed to do some truly ridiculous things in matches which are always gonna hurt. Ziggler complained because that move was supposed to be really simple but Cara almost really injured Ziggler. How is he a puss?

 

[JBK2008]

Sin Cara is really going to hurt or kill someone at this rate. I understand Rey is getting older and Cara is HHH's pet project, but something needs to be done asap or just fire him. Bring someone else in with a mask if the merchandise sales are that important.

If nothing else, MITB should'be been the final say in this whole matter. Ziggler a future cornerstone to the WWE and he needs to be protected from guys like Cara.

 

[IT Factor]

This isn't an easily defined topic because there are so many elements of it to consider. Least of all is the language barrier, which I won't get into because that's a gimme[he's from Mexico]. Firstly, you have the fact that Sin Cara botches moves. I have noticed that while he works a more luchador based style, he does botch at an alarmingly frequent rate. I thought that Hunico worked much more fluidly under the mask than Sin Cara himself. Even now, Hunico can hit springboard manuevers with tennis shoes on[which I find impressive]. That's not even to mention how badly Sin Cara botched his entrance and now he has a totally different entrance because of it.

Then, there is the whole Ziggler/Cara incident from MITB. Honestly I think both guys screwed that spot up. Ziggler slipped after Cara missed the cue and both almost got injured. I don't think Cara was alone in shouldering the blame for that and Ziggler was probably just venting frustrations over not being a main eventer. Sin Cara has successfully hit that move in the past, so I don't think it is entirely him. People have to realize that Sin Cara was used to working a different style in Mexico and it'll be hard to work any other way. Chris Jericho used to be the same way. When he debuted in the WWF, he used to have heat on him for doing that reverse spin kick and he busted people open. Triple H was the main instagator in that and Jericho was subsequently stuck in the lower to mid-card before that blew over. He too had to adjust to WWE's style of working matches and if WWE fired everyone who had to learn, there'd be alot of future endeavored performers who wouldn't have lasted as long as they did. RVD was the same. He was busting people open and it had the same effect on his career that it did on Jericho's in the beginning. Remember when he busted Angle open? That was a big deal back then and RVD never really recovered from that for years afterwards. Booker T is another example of someone who had to adjust to WWE's match system. Remember when he debuted and almost immediately got heat for nearly injuring Stone Cold? The point here is that not everyone is able to transition into the WWE style of matches after they are accustomed to working a certain way.

Sin Cara isn't the first person to fall victim to this trend and he certainly won't be the last. My problem with Sin Cara isn't really the botching so much as indifference to his lack of charisma. Masked luchadors are already at a disadvantage because people can't really see them and most cannot speak well enough to get themselves over. I have enjoyed some elements of his matches but I don't think he'll ever be a big star in WWE. If they bring back the cruiserweight division or the lightheavyweights, he may be a champion eventually[if he doesn't get released first].

 

[chefmark]

I don't really care about Sin Cara the best thing was his entrence now that is gone there is nothing i like. His finisher doesn't impress me at all he does have alot of skill in the ring but. The mask also prevent to see emotions they need to change his costume let us see something

 

[Skinsley]

Right now Sin Cara brings nothing to the table in terms of my personal watch ability that Justin Gabriel or Tyson Kidd can’t do for me right now, If not better…..
MerchSale,Spottmonkey!

One thing is though, that I would like to give him a chance, and I hope that the eyes on the mask and the bluelighting are something that could be changed in order to improve on his botches.

WWE does not need him, I don’t need him, and if he does not improve I won’t be displeased if he is wished best of luck on all of his future endeavours.

 

[MINISTRYrising]

I dont think he offers much to wwe roster at all and if nobody in wwe can go at the same pace as him then why keep him. sure he is selling merchindise but if he was not there the the kids would be buying brodus,cena or mysterio merchindise anyway. the only thing that may work as he is not a talker is to turn him hell and put him with abraham washington. with aw's mouth in his corner i think it could work

 

[pollofrito]

do you think WWE is putting to much money into the Sin Cara project? No Rey's career is almost over they need a mask superstar.

Are you a fan of the character? NO, I think a heel persona is a better fit for sin cara / face sin cara is too similar to mysterio

Do you think Sin Cara's push is an overall bust so far? Yes, one year in the company 7 months off.

 

[Iversen]

Do you think WWE is putting to much money into the Sin Cara project?
I don't know how much money they are putting in so I couldn't tell you. Sin Cara was a logical signing at the time and looked like a great move. Unfortunately suspensions and him not clicking with the American wrestling style have derailed any plans for what he's done. I don't think you can blame WWE for this one.

Are you a fan of the character?
Does he have a character? He wears a mask and does lots of flips... Don't really think that's something you can call a character. We know nothing about the guy behind the mask and there is no reason for fans to get into his character. The flips and lucha style that he works can only take you so far before you need something else to get the fans on your side and the fact he can't speak English kind of ruins any chance for that to happen. 99% of the WWE audience don't give a fuck what he achieved in Mexico.

Do you think Sin Cara's push is an overall bust so far?
Yup without a shadow of a doubt. Even taking out the simple fact that he's not over with the crowd he damn near killed Dolph Ziggler at MITB. If Ziggler had landed on his head off that Spanish Fly attempt in the corner it could have been a tragedy. He's just not worked due to a combination of factors. I don't think the WWE is to blame for this one as the guy has just never seemed comfy there. They can't change the whole company to fit this guy in.

 

[Cena's #1 In My Heart]

First off.. it's a great thing he can't wrestle the WWE style.. cause the WWE style is wrestle as slow and boring as you can. Just ask John Cena, he has perfected it.

I don't care about his botches.. his entrance, or even some luchador moves. His moves are harder than most, he does a damn well job. People make mistakes.. whatever... when they "botch" and people acknowledge it as a botch it just makes it seem more fake. If Brock Lesnar missed a punch in a UFC fight.. did he just a miss a punch, or did he botch? Well I like to look at wrestling like its real, as watching any show thinking its fake is stupid. So if Sin Cara takes a mis step and fucks up.. so what... it's up to his opponent to cover and continue the action.. the worst thing you can do is just stand there and acknowledge your botch. Just keep going witht he action, mistakes happen.

Sin Cara is entertaining in the ring. Not sure he should have the special lighting, it's untraditional. If they keep Sin Cara around he will easily replace Rey Mysterio as a huge babyface. He's not that bad that it's like you put him in the ring and the match is a trainwreck. I usually look forward to his matches, because your not going to see anything else like it on the WWE these days.

 

[Remy LaCroix]

Also, why does WWE blatantly refuse to acknowledge that Rey Mysterio exsists at the same time as Sin Cara?

What do you mean? Have them compete in a match because they're luchadors? Pfft, that's what everyone's been saying since his debut.

So, in closing, do you think WWE is putting to much money into the Sin Cara project?

Nope. He draws, but moronic American smarks don't see things the way WWE does.

Are you a fan of the character?

I enjoy watching him on television.

Do you think Sin Cara's push is an overall bust so far?

Nope. He's had a couple of bumps on the road, but it's panning out nicely thus far.

What are your thoughts?

WWE should keep him in random matches until they can find a feud for him...

His finisher doesn't impress me at all he does have alot of skill in the ring but.

I don't think moves are suppose to impress people. Some do, but they're just part of what makes a wrestler unique. Overall, it's just a move.

The mask also prevent to see emotions they need to change his costume let us see something

Body language. That is all.

 

[braveh]

Sin Cara was actually over when he debuted and the first couple of months. I suspect that he was a big merch seller too.

The IWC has hated him since day one. No question about that. What I don't understand is why the crowds started booing him since his comeback last month? What happened?