The Domestic Football Thread

[Miko]

Agreed, Bale would have to do really well all year, and Spurs would have to win something big for him to break that little group up. The Premier League's midfield and attack couldnt hope to break that group anyway, Manchester United sit top of the League and who do they have? Carrick, Fletcher, Anderson? Nani attacking couldnt hope to match Messi or Ronaldo, although when Rooney is on form I'd rank him above Villa, but outside of Vidic ousting Puyol I cant see it.

Poulsen, Lucas, Milner, Barry? Not exactly Paul Scholes or Steve McManaman at their best are they? I wouldnt rank Lampard there either. Gerrard I would but still him and Lampard could be the most overrated English midfielders ever. Good dont get me wrong, just wrongfully worshipped. On the other hand, despite it being only United and Chelsea these last few years, at least other teams get a look in, La Liga may have better players, but they all play for Barca and Real.

On a side note, Bent to Aston Villa for £18 mil. A lot of people saying he's not worth it but I dunno, only Drogba and Rooney have scored more these last 5 years, shit, technically he's been better than Torres.

 

[Maverick29]

Never thought I'd find a football thread on this forum but since I've chanced upon it I'll do my little bit.

Last year when HBK retired I lost one out of two boyhood hero's I had, while coping with the fact that HBK was gone I heard Giggsy would be hanging his boots come end of 10/11 *gutted* cos seriously, when you're boyhood idols start retiring it can only mean you're realllllly getting old, haha, but as luck would have it Giggsy renewed for another year and marking his 601st league game scores his 108th (thereabouts) league goal. What a gun.

From "boy genius" to "wing wizard" to "ever green", can any player come close to achieving what Giggsy has done? As a person & a player IN CLUB football? I can only think of one other person who can be mentioned in the same breath, albeit a step lower then Giggs of course , which is Maldini. Why lower? Cos there is only one Giggs.

Sadly the newer fans don't know what giggsy is all about, having never seen him play from '93-'99, when he was arguably the best left winger in the world (yes, THE best) cos if you thought Cristiano R. could dribble then Giggs would have been God-like. Though Ronaldo is a better finisher by miles.., but then again Giggs was never converted to a striker and never got to sharpen his finishing skills, though thats not to say Giggs wasn't an incredible goal scorer (160 odd of which 140 odd were is some form or another works of art). And the assist - highest ever I think. Nah, I'm sure of it.

Ryan Giggs - Legend.

...also inspirer of the phrase "...I hate Man United but (insert something nice about Giggs here)..." lol

On a side note: United for the title to go 19, and Fergie finally fulfilling his prophecy to "knock liverpool of their f'in perch" -In Sir Alex we trust. =)

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

As if we needed reminding that the Premier League is the most overrated League in the World, and the fact that it isnt actually brimming with the World Class talent people seem to think it is. Here is the Fifa World 11 (4-3-3 Formation);

1. Casillas
2. Maicon
3. Lucio
4. Pique
5. Puyol
6. Sneijder
7. Xavi
8. Iniesta
9. Messi
10. David Villa
11. Christiano Ronaldo

Also the shortlist for the best player in the World contained about 3 players from the Premier League. I've always said that the Premier League can create stars, but it cant keep them or buy them. The top players dont really want to play here, they'd prefer Real or Barcelona or one of the Italian giants. Cant say I really blame them either.

The English team is overrated but I don't think the Premiership is. All we have to do is look at the Champions league; in the last 10 years this is the amount of semi finalists by league-
England 15
Spain 11
Italy 7
Germany 3
France 2
Portugal & Holland 1

If we go to the last 5 years it's even more dominant-
England 10
Spain 5
Italy 3
Germany & France 1

Last year no Premiership teams in the last four (first time since '03) but all four Premiership teams still in this year so I'd be amazed if there isn't representation in the semis this year.

 

[Miko]

Yeah man I see what you mean, and as I think I've said that as a league it's the most competitive and interesting because all of the teams can be strong on their day, where Spain and Italy only seem to have 2 strong teams at a time, England usually has all 4 which is why there'll usually be English in the semi's of the Champions League, by sheer numbers alone.

But just look at the winners over the last 20 years, which is when the Premier League came in and England's ban was repealed from playing in Europe, 3 English teams have won the Champ's League. 7 times finalists, 5 times beaten comprehensively and in United's case embarrised by Barcelona.

1. Manchester United - 2 toe pokes past a Bayern Team that threw it away, they should've had it sewn up, although I'll argue that a lot of that was down to United lacking Keane and Scholes.

2. Liverpool - Fucking exciting, Milan 3-0 up but once again they threw it away, Liverpool did amazing to come back to 3-3, but fact is Milan threw that match away. Then lost on Penalties.

3. Manchester United - Boring game with Chelsea finished in a shoot-out, the best thing to come from that is the song aimed at John Terry.

Spanish teams are 6 time winners and 9 times finalists, Italian 5 time winners and 12 times finalists. Englist teams win it now the German's really arent competitive in it any more and Barcelona or one of the Milan's has a bad year.

Like I said, most competitive league all round, but for a league that claims to have the best talent around, it really doesnt, and most of the World Class Players it does have never seem too far away from a move abroad.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Yeah man I see what you mean, and as I think I've said that as a league it's the most competitive and interesting because all of the teams can be strong on their day, where Spain and Italy only seem to have 2 strong teams at a time, England usually has all 4 which is why there'll usually be English in the semi's of the Champions League, by sheer numbers alone.

But just look at the winners over the last 20 years, which is when the Premier League came in and England's ban was repealed from playing in Europe, 3 English teams have won the Champ's League. 7 times finalists, 5 times beaten comprehensively and in United's case embarrised by Barcelona.

1. Manchester United - 2 toe pokes past a Bayern Team that threw it away, they should've had it sewn up, although I'll argue that a lot of that was down to United lacking Keane and Scholes.

2. Liverpool - Fucking exciting, Milan 3-0 up but once again they threw it away, Liverpool did amazing to come back to 3-3, but fact is Milan threw that match away. Then lost on Penalties.

3. Manchester United - Boring game with Chelsea finished in a shoot-out, the best thing to come from that is the song aimed at John Terry.

Spanish teams are 6 time winners and 9 times finalists, Italian 5 time winners and 12 times finalists. Englist teams win it now the German's really arent competitive in it any more and Barcelona or one of the Milan's has a bad year.

Like I said, most competitive league all round, but for a league that claims to have the best talent around, it really doesnt, and most of the World Class Players it does have never seem too far away from a move abroad.

True but it is still the strongest LEAGUE. The Barcelona's, Real Madrid's and Milan's may buy the best players but their Leagues are every bit as interesting as the Scot's Prem. It should also be pointed out that Premiership teams are very like the England team, they can look world beaters YET still have that terrible habit of choking. How many times have the Prem teams dominated right up to the clutch, then all of a sudden they look like they've lost all confidence - that's the one thing about the mainland European giants, they always look confident and never look awed by the circumstances.

 

[Miko]

Somehow I knew Arsenal were going to choke against Birmingham, bet on Birmingham to steal it just before the match and when the first goal went in I knew I was onto a winner. Classic Arsenal, dominate the match mostly, but one of their idiot defenders and goalkeeper cost them the game right at the very end, shame I was watching the game down an Arsenal pub, but not really. Seriously though, going forward they are great to watch, but at the back they are a far cry from Tony Adam's heyday. Bunch of little kids still.

Also without Van Persie tonight, I'll be surprised if Barcelona dont murder them.

I've always thought that when it comes to defending (last World Cup and current form aside) you cant beat English players, and to be fair we look like we could be forming great defenders again with the likes of Smalling and Gary Cahill. Seems to be what The Gooners lack these days. 7 Years anyone? I suppose they might steal the league yet. . .

Also, Mclaren sacked, that means that he should be a success at the club he goes to next, in keeping with the pattern. Chelsea got 2 games against United coming up, if they dont win one or both then I think Tottenham will beat the to Champs League football, hope so, far more entertaining than the Blue's.

 

[Dave]

Arsenal are chokers, that is the long and short of it. The choke when they have an opportunity to win the Premier League and the definitely choked on Sunday with the Carling Cup defeat to Birmingham. I wish I had put some money on Birmingham to win because, like you, I definitely thought that Arsenal were going to fall at the final hurdle like they have done so many times. It is in their nature to do it now and it didn't surprise me one bit.

And then we get onto the Premier League. Arsenal are still looking strong but I would be lying if I told you that I thought they were going to win the league. It pains me to say it but I never believed Manchester United would go this far. For me, they have little to no world class talent in their ranks and that has been true ever since the World Cup and Rooney, seemingly, deciding that he was never going to play well again in his life. However, they seem to have a unity in the side that is keeping them on top of the table. Rangers have the exact same thing going on, they haven't bought a player in ages and their team spirit keeps them on top. I guess I have to give up to them for that reason but I still can't believe that they are winning the title race.

Arsenal might catch them but I don't know how I would feel about them winning the league. I think they get some sympathy for not winning the league time after time because of the way that they play. They play some nice stuff and didn't look out of place when they met Barcelona in the Champions League last week. If they win the league, then I guess I need to tip my hat to them because I thought they were no-hopers at the start of the season and they have did everything in their power to prove me wrong. I still don't think that they look like a Championship winning side but I don't think I can say that for any team right now. No one has managed to impress me enough for me to start thinking that they definitely deserve it over anyone else.

Tonight ought to be very interesting, I feel. Chelsea take on Manchester United at Stamford Bridge and I feel as though this match is going to be huge in terms of the run-in for the league title. I reckon Chelsea are out of the running now, for sure. However, they are a team that needs a big win and Manchester United need to win to take their title bid far out of the hands of others. However, I think Chelsea are going to win tonight and that should make for a more interested finish to the league campaign for everyone. I don't want to see Manchester United running away with the league. Let's root for Chelsea and get some enjoyment out of what is left.

 

[Miko]

You got your wish Dave, Chelsea scratched it out against United and to top it off Liverpool destroyed them. Arsenal are now only 3 points behind with a game in hand, I am sort of a sympathiser for Arsenal not winning trophies in that they play really nice stuff and then choke, on the other hand it is quite funny. Still, I wouldnt be at all dissapointed if Arsenal beat United to the Title.

Speaking of Liverpool, dont want to jinx it but when Dalglish took over part of me thought they were going down, glad he's proved me wrong, in good style too, always liked him.

I've also got my eye on the Tottenham/Man City games, Spurs are 5 points behind them with a game in hand, and a game coming up against City, if I only want one thing this year it'll be for Spurs to finish in the Champs League spots knocking City down to fifth like last year. Both spent huge, but at least Tottenham are entertaining, and not managed by a boring/token Italian.

Speaking of the Champions League, I hope Barcelona get knocked out again, best team in the World no doubt, but they couldnt get much more help from officials, kind of ironic that 2 years in a row they've gone into the Nou Camp with a deficit and 2 years in a row an opposition player has been sent off in highly debatable circumstances. It's not like they need help really.

 

[LFC till i die]

Arsenal really blew it last week when they drew against Sunderland. Stupid linesman, Arshavin's goal should of stood but they shud of won i mean everone know Liverpool would beat united. But i still believe Arsenal win the league this seaon and this is coming from a LFC supporter.
I dont wana jinx it but when i was watching the carling cup highlights, when Birmingham scored their second goal the commentator said "Arsenal just carnt seem to win a trophy" which i thought was hilarious. My sister is an Arsenal fan and her face was just priceless...

 

[Miko]

Has it been a week since I last posted? Fuck it, I'll try and update this weekly as it amuses me and gives me a break from the constant porn, wanking, killing prostitutes, arson and sodomy.

The tables still the same as ever, so I'll skip that shit and talk about the Champions League again. Barcelona getting a nice easy run I see, Spurs are fucked I think, might beat Real but the Barca straight afterwards it would seem, unless I am mis-informed. On the other hand, if there is a team left that can beat Barcelona it could be Tottenham, they are very much the surprise package at the moment.

United vs Chelsea - Bleh, see that two or three times a year anyway.

On a side note, David Luiz 2 goals, Fernando Torres 0. Think they should switch positions.

 

[Alastor]

This year's relegation is proving to be one of the most exciting in ages. Almost half the teams in the league has a chance of going down with only 6 points separating Newcastle at 11th from Wigan in 20th. Whichever 3 that goes down might be the most undeserving since West Ham went down with 42 points. It would be a crying shame if Blackpool goes down after doing so well since promotion. Birmingham might go down after winning the Carling Cup. Villa could go down even though they spent a fortune on Darren Bent. Would a rash change of management cost Blackburn and WBA survival? All of these are more fascinating to me than watching the yearly Manchester United and Chelsea procession to the title while watching Arsenal choking every time around this time of the year.

 

[Miko]

I like the bottom of the table battle as well actually, it just seems that most people I talk to dont, so I never bring it up. That being said the only team I really want to see stay up are Blackpool, being English I cant help but support the plucky underdogs who have the bollocks to take it to anybody. Plus Ian Holloway is a breath of fresh air in a league full of boring Italian managers and Alex Ferguson.

 

[Murphy]

I also would love to see Blackpool stay up. You could make a movie on everything that happend to Blackpool in the last two seasons, and it would probably be seen as unrealistic. Relegation Candidats in the Championship, and to win the Play-Offs after finishing 6th. Beating the favourites Cardiff in the final after losing by a goal on two occasions. To the first game of the season, beating Wigan away 4-0. To (hopefully) staying up in the Premier League in their first season in the top flight.

First game of the season, I had Charlie Adam as a sub on my Fantasy Football Team. He started instead of well I can't remember who it was. But he hasn't been taken out of my team yet. The best £5 million I ever spent. Than you have Ian Holloway, his post match interviews are brilliant. He's so funny.

The other team I would like to see stay up are Wolves. I feel they have been very very unlucky this season. And I would hate to see Mick McCarthys side go down after having two fantastic seaons already.

 

[Murphy]

I also would love to see Blackpool stay up. You could make a movie on everything that happend to Blackpool in the last two seasons, and it would probably be seen as unrealistic. Relegation Candidats in the Championship, and to win the Play-Offs after finishing 6th. Beating the favourites Cardiff in the final after losing by a goal on two occasions. To the first game of the season, beating Wigan away 4-0. To (hopefully) staying up in the Premier League in their first season in the top flight. First game of the season, I had Charlie Adam as a sub on my Fantasy Football Team. He started instead of well I can't remember who it was. But he hasn't been taken out of my team yet. The best £5 million I ever spent. Than you have Ian Holloway, his post match interviews are brilliant. He's so funny.

The other team I would like to see stay up are Wolves. I feel they have been very very unlucky this season. And I would hate to see Mick McCarthys side go down after having two fantastic seaons already.

 

[texans420]

I just feel we're going to get to see one of those West Brom-like last day wins to go from bottom to pull out of the drop on the final day this year. As far as the top of the table, my beloved Arsenal, like all the other sports teams I cheer for, will have another almost and finish 2nd. I at least did myself a favor and not get excited when I saw we pulled within 3 of United.

This might sound crazy coming from a football fan in the states, but the race I'm keeping tabs on if Wimbledon can earn promotion through the playoffs from the conference because it doesn't look like they're winning that division. Anyway I can get closer to seeing MK Dons vs Wimbledon one day, I will fly to England myself to be apart of the crowd for that match when it happens. Might not be the most artistic thing on the field ever, but it might be one of those West Ham/Millwall type atmospheres.

 

[DAFC_Punk_Can_Save_Us]

You're not a proper fan unless you attend matches.

 

[texans420]

I attend matches from time to time here in the states and the last I checked a plane ticket from Houston to London isn't exactly the cost of a can of Old Speckled Hen. As long as you show devoted passion, does it really matter at the end of the day. Isn't that what this sport is based on.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I attend matches from time to time here in the states and the last I checked a plane ticket from Houston to London isn't exactly the cost of a can of Old Speckled Hen. As long as you show devoted passion, does it really matter at the end of the day. Isn't that what this sport is based on.

To right, sir! I'm a massive San Diego Chargers fan but have only seen them play once (against the Saints at Wembley), I watch every Minnesota Twins game I can catch (but never seen them in person) and as I live in Northern Ireland I'm usually only able to attend a couple of Liverpool's games each season. Despite not being able to own season tickets, I don't feel I'm any less a fan than someone fortunate enough to live close to where their team plays - I attend every Northern Ireland home game and the odd away fixture, that doesn't make me a bigger fan than devoted ex pats.

 

[Miko]

You're not a proper fan unless you attend matches.

Too much of a tight cunt to support a Premier League side, Gillingham all the way.

Barton mocks teacher's pet Gareth Barry


Joey Barton has proclaimed himself to be the best midfielder available to England boss Fabio Capello and issued a damning indictment of Gareth Barry, calling the Manchester City player a teacher's pet.

Not for the first time, Barton has criticised those currently in favour with the national coach and talked up his own worth on the international stage. After the 2006 World Cup, Barton mocked the likes of Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard and Ashley Cole for bringing out autobiographies when he said: "England did nothing in that World Cup, so why were they bringing books out? 'We got beat in the quarter-finals. I played like s**t. Here's my book'."

Nonetheless, Barton earned his only England cap - against Spain four years ago - in the wake of those remarks. He has since rediscovered his excellent form for Newcastle United but appears to be nowhere near the squad ahead of June's Euro 2012 qualifier against Switzerland at Wembley.

In an interview with French magazine So Foot, Barton is quoted as saying: "Honestly, I think I'm the best [English midfielder]. Luka Modric and Samir Nasri are very good, but in terms of English players ... well, Jack Wilshere isn't bad, but Frank Lampard's on the way down and Steven Gerrard's been injured a lot.

"I'm English and I love playing for my country. Maybe the people at the top have a problem with me. I don't know. But the trouble I had was four years ago. They should be able to forgive, shouldn't they?"

On Barry, Barton added: "Did you see the game against Germany at the World Cup? If you watch the fourth goal, when [Mesut] Ozil was up against Barry, it was like the hare and the tortoise. Barry's got a very good agent. He's also discreet and always agrees with the manager. He's like the guy who sits in the front row and listens to the teacher. I certainly don't lose any sleep when I play against him."

Barton also questioned England's technical and tactical approach.

"Look at Jordan Henderson [against France]. He was up against [Yann] M'Vila, [Mathieu] Valbuena, Nasri and [Yoann] Gourcuff. And he had Gareth Barry alongside him. What could they do against those players? France killed us at Wembley.

"We English will play the next 50 World Cups and we'll never win one. The people in charge at the FA played football maybe 50 or 60 years ago and still think that we can win a World Cup in the same way we did in 1966.

"We're too focused on tradition in England, like always having to play 4-4-2. Sometimes you need to experiment, drop a bit deeper so you have more space to move into. France, Italy and Germany have done it. We've been doing the same thing for 20 years."

Barton has also suggested he could yet leave Newcastle in the summer unless they show ambition by keeping hold of their best players and reinvesting the £35 million they received from the sale of Andrew Carroll to Liverpool.

"It's important to respect the people who come to the stadium or watch the games on telly," he said. "That's what I told [the Newcastle management]. I told them the goal shouldn't be just to survive, to finish 16th or 17th, every season.

"We had a good player, Carroll, and we sold him. I told the management that I was worried, that I was scared this might happen every year. But they assured me they don't want to go down that road.

"I don't know if I believe them. I told them I might stay this summer because we have some good players and money to spend. But I'm going to wait and see if players like Kevin Nolan, Cheick Tiote and Jose Enrique stay. If Nolan signs a new deal, I will as well. But I hope the club step things up. I want to be ambitious and I think the club share that desire."

Aha, Barton for England anyone?

One fault with that little speech though, Nolan's been better this season, although they've both been great.

 

[Miko]

You're not a proper fan unless you attend matches.

Too much of a tight cunt to support a Premier League side, Gillingham all the way.

Barton mocks teacher's pet Gareth Barry


Joey Barton has proclaimed himself to be the best midfielder available to England boss Fabio Capello and issued a damning indictment of Gareth Barry, calling the Manchester City player a teacher's pet.

Not for the first time, Barton has criticised those currently in favour with the national coach and talked up his own worth on the international stage. After the 2006 World Cup, Barton mocked the likes of Steven Gerrard, Frank Lampard and Ashley Cole for bringing out autobiographies when he said: "England did nothing in that World Cup, so why were they bringing books out? 'We got beat in the quarter-finals. I played like s**t. Here's my book'."

Nonetheless, Barton earned his only England cap - against Spain four years ago - in the wake of those remarks. He has since rediscovered his excellent form for Newcastle United but appears to be nowhere near the squad ahead of June's Euro 2012 qualifier against Switzerland at Wembley.

In an interview with French magazine So Foot, Barton is quoted as saying: "Honestly, I think I'm the best [English midfielder]. Luka Modric and Samir Nasri are very good, but in terms of English players ... well, Jack Wilshere isn't bad, but Frank Lampard's on the way down and Steven Gerrard's been injured a lot.

"I'm English and I love playing for my country. Maybe the people at the top have a problem with me. I don't know. But the trouble I had was four years ago. They should be able to forgive, shouldn't they?"

On Barry, Barton added: "Did you see the game against Germany at the World Cup? If you watch the fourth goal, when [Mesut] Ozil was up against Barry, it was like the hare and the tortoise. Barry's got a very good agent. He's also discreet and always agrees with the manager. He's like the guy who sits in the front row and listens to the teacher. I certainly don't lose any sleep when I play against him."

Barton also questioned England's technical and tactical approach.

"Look at Jordan Henderson [against France]. He was up against [Yann] M'Vila, [Mathieu] Valbuena, Nasri and [Yoann] Gourcuff. And he had Gareth Barry alongside him. What could they do against those players? France killed us at Wembley.

"We English will play the next 50 World Cups and we'll never win one. The people in charge at the FA played football maybe 50 or 60 years ago and still think that we can win a World Cup in the same way we did in 1966.

"We're too focused on tradition in England, like always having to play 4-4-2. Sometimes you need to experiment, drop a bit deeper so you have more space to move into. France, Italy and Germany have done it. We've been doing the same thing for 20 years."

Barton has also suggested he could yet leave Newcastle in the summer unless they show ambition by keeping hold of their best players and reinvesting the £35 million they received from the sale of Andrew Carroll to Liverpool.

"It's important to respect the people who come to the stadium or watch the games on telly," he said. "That's what I told [the Newcastle management]. I told them the goal shouldn't be just to survive, to finish 16th or 17th, every season.

"We had a good player, Carroll, and we sold him. I told the management that I was worried, that I was scared this might happen every year. But they assured me they don't want to go down that road.

"I don't know if I believe them. I told them I might stay this summer because we have some good players and money to spend. But I'm going to wait and see if players like Kevin Nolan, Cheick Tiote and Jose Enrique stay. If Nolan signs a new deal, I will as well. But I hope the club step things up. I want to be ambitious and I think the club share that desire."

Aha, Barton for England anyone?

One fault with that little speech though, Nolan's been better this season, although they've both been great. Lets be honest, he should be playing for England, although I like him, as a human being he's just as much of a national disgrace as the rest of the team.

Plus Barry is shit.

 

[Барбоса]

There is no doubt that Barton and Nolan have both had decent seasons and I would agree that Gareth Barry is far from England's best defender, but neither Barton nor Nolan have had better seasons than the two players that Capello selected when he decided to change his team and they are Jack Wilshire and Scott Parker. When they played together I thought they were pretty good and, whether you agree or not that the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and Barry slot back into the team (Capello has hardly proven himself to go back on his original selections), should for the foreseeable future be ahead of guys like Nolan and Barton in the pecking order.

 

[Lee]

There is no doubt that Barton and Nolan have both had decent seasons and I would agree that Gareth Barry is far from England's best defender, but neither Barton nor Nolan have had better seasons than the two players that Capello selected when he decided to change his team and they are Jack Wilshire and Scott Parker. When they played together I thought they were pretty good and, whether you agree or not that the likes of Gerrard, Lampard and Barry slot back into the team (Capello has hardly proven himself to go back on his original selections), should for the foreseeable future be ahead of guys like Nolan and Barton in the pecking order.

Oh you were being serious.

Nolan has played Wilshire off the park twice the season, as has Barton. Same with Parker being played off the park.

Joey Barton: 5 goals, 7 assists.
Kevin Nolan: 12 Goals, 1 assist.
Total: 17 goals, 8 assists

Scott Parker 7 goals, 3 assists
Jack Wilshire: 1 Goal, 2 assits
Lets add Barry in: 2 Goals 2 Assists
Total: 10 Goals, 7 assits.

Still less than Nolan/Barton and there's three there.

The stats don't lie.

 

[Барбоса]

I still stand by my belief that Wilshire and Parker have had better seasons than Barton and Nolan, particularly Parker. I hate to use the PFA Player of the Year Award to pad my argument as I have been an opponent of many of their choices - Ryan Giggs springs to mind - but I agree with them this year (although the clamour for Bale to win baffles me somewhat - his best performances were in the Champions League and he has missed almost a quarter of the league season).

I would agree that guys like Nolan and Barton may have been unfairly overlooked for a squad place and it is clear from his treatment of Andy Carroll and John Terry that Capello is willing to forgive passed misdemeanours so why does the same approach not reach Barton? Arguments of wanting to pick younger players like Wilshire, Young, Jarvis etc. also do not hold water as Scott Parker is 30.

So either Capello is being anti-Newcastle or he does not think Nolan and Barton have had as good a season either and in the end his is the only opinion that matters.

While they may be all that we have, stats do indeed lie. No one would say that Berbatov has had a great season but some twisting of the stats have suggested that he is the best player in the league this year as well as the top scorer and yet is not nominated for Player of the Year.

 

[Miko]

Parker's been a beast and Wilshere's a prospect, I just wish commentators would stop keep saying "Scott Parkers been pulling up trees for West Ham" as its getting slightly annoying. I do hope that West Ham get relegated this season though, considering they shouldnt be in the Premier League at the moment anyway, then maybe Parker can finish his career off with a half decent team. That being said, I still think Nolan and Barton should be brought up if only to see how they do, at worst they can plug the gap until some more of the English youngsters are ready, at best they might turn out to be fucking good choices.

Another issue with Mr Barton's little speech, yes England do lose because of tactics, so called big name players underperforming and generall bad luck, but another reason has to be that Spain, Germany, Brazil, France, Argentina and most of the other big teams can pick players from the top teams of all the good leagues, champions league players and often winners. England are reduced to considering players like Parker who is in the midst of a relegation battle, talking about poaching Mikel Arteta, an average player from an average team who cant get anywhere near Spains reserves, not to mention the petulant little wanker gets himself sent off more often than Rooney, so he's perfect for the England set up really. Basically we suck.



On a lighter note, are Park Ji Sung and Ryan Giggs Man Uniteds best big game players? I certainly think so, when Ronaldo was being made to look irrelevant and throwing tantrums against good teams Park and Giggs were the ones to score the goals and in Giggs case create them. Although Ronaldos long gone, I think last night is a very good example, and the matches against Liverpool last year.

 

[Барбоса]

On a lighter note, are Park Ji Sung and Ryan Giggs Man Uniteds best big game players? I certainly think so, when Ronaldo was being made to look irrelevant and throwing tantrums against good teams Park and Giggs were the ones to score the goals and in Giggs case create them. Although Ronaldos long gone, I think last night is a very good example, and the matches against Liverpool last year.

I agree with this entirely. It is players like Giggs and Park that win trophies. Rooney might get the plaudits but it is someone like Park who will score the winner in the FA Cup or Champions League Final.

The only thing I find rather hypocritical particularly from a lot of United fans is that while they sing the praises of Park Ji Sung for putting in the hard yards, scoring in the big games and generally running himself into the ground, it is those same people who ridicule a player like Dirk Kuyt, someone who does perhaps more running and scores more goals. I definitely think that he has a place in the new Liverpool attack with Carroll and Suarez and am glad that he ahs signed a new deal.

The way United fans, particular in my circle of friends, talk about Kuyt and his lack of talent made his hat trick at Anfield all the more special.