The Domestic Football Thread

[Hollywood Naitch]

Well, as noone has mentioned this so far I will.

Manchester Utd 8 vs 2 Arsenal

Just let that sink in for a minute. One of the biggest teams in the country was utterly humiliated in one of the most amazing results I have ever seen. This just goes to prove once and for all that Arsenal's transfer policy just isn't working any more. Players are just looking at them as a stepping stone to the really BIG clubs, which is a shame

They arent blessed with many quality players any more. The keepers are second rate, the strikers aren't anywhere near as good as those at Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea or Liverpool and the financial gap between them and the other big teams is clearer than ever.

Arsenal need to buy. They need proven quality players, not just young kids like Oxlade-Chamberlain, who is good but is the answer for the future, not for now. They need to shell out and buy a proven goalscorer, and some good centre halves with experience...like Jagielka, Mertsacker from Werder Bremen (who they are in talks with) or Gary Cahill from us- give a fair offer and he is yours, we need the money.

Wenger needs to go to his board and demand some serious money. Without it, Arsenal may fail to make the top 4, the remaining quality players like Van Persie, Arshavin etc will want to go, they will miss out on the big bucks of the Champions League and the financial gulf between them and the other big teams will increase further. Plus, not being in the top competition in club football not persuade the top name players to play for the club.

Arsenal NEED to strengthen, as they are not the force they once were. As much as I truly despise Arsene Wenger, and believe me I do, I felt a little sorry for him as such a proud guy was humilated and made to look second rate by a Man Utd side that has really strengthened this summer. Phil Jones and Ashley Young look fantastic signings. But, then I realised it was Wenger...and laughed

 

[Барбоса]

If there is one person who does not deserve any sympathy from that nightmare of a result on Sunday, it is Arsene Wenger.

First the "we have a good, young team" excuses for why his team could not get over the final hurdle in cup finals wore thin and now much of that "young team" is not that young any more and has either flown the coop or been proven to be not all that "good." Sure, they have been hit with some injuries but it is the manager's fault that they do not have the depth of quality that a mid table side has. Years of increasingly inept transfer policies and an almighty chip on his shoulder about not "over-spending" finally came home to roost.

But the biggest reason that I have no sympathy for Wenger is his own arrogance.

The way he sent his team out to play at Old Trafford was scandalous as his strategy of "follow Plan A and if that fails revert to Plan A" went beyond a joke.

With his Starting XI crippled by injuries, suspensions and departures, why on earth did Wenger send his team out in an attacking 4-3-3 formation?

Is it because he knows no other style of play?

No. The team he inherited played 4-4-2 and won the Double.

No, it is because he has become so fixated with playing "beautiful football" with talent moulded from a young age by his own hands that winning has become almost of secondary importance and at Old Trafford he served up two young defenders, Jenkinson and Traore, as a sacrifice in order to maintain the spectre of that approach. With wingers like Walcott and Arshavin refusing to help them, they were ripped to shreds not through excellent wing play from Utd (they did not have to play overly well in my eyes) but with simple 2v1 every time. With the full backs run ragged, the centre halves got dragged all over the place, not by intricate or incisive passing or darting runs but by simple passes the likes of which an Under 12s side could come up with.

Do not get me wrong; there were some almighty defensive blunders like Djourou allowing the ball to bounce on his own six yard line but again that only reveals the weaknesses in Arsenal's defence, tactical and strategic set up in the squad overall.

Would Sir Alex Ferguson, Jose Mourinho or Pep Guardiola have gone to the Emirates with a such a heavily depleted squad and played so openly? Not in a million years.

You could argue that Arsenal are not set up to defend, which I would tend to agree with to some extent but the rather simple retort to that is "whose fault is that?" With a manager as hands on as Wenger reportedly is, it all comes back to him. If his team cannot defend it is due to his tactics, team selection, training and purchases.

Lambs to a slaughter so visceral that some of those youngsters may never fully recover.

 

[Dowdsy McDowds]

What's quite funny about the result was several pundits saying that United weren't even playing at their best, and I think that's actually true. Jones and Evans did a good job overall, but at the start of the second half Arshavin managed to get through a couple of times only to fluff his shots. If any of them had gone in then it would have been interesting to see how different the score would have been. I still expect United would have won but I don't think the goal difference would be as severe.

United's away trips will be a test again this year, but I think they are going to be very strong at OT again this season. I get the feeling they may lose a couple at home but win the rest, so gonna go out on a limb and predict no draws at OT this season (in the league.)

Arsenal are making moves in the transfer window at last but why oh why didn't Arsene sort out all this stuff a lot earlier? I think it was George Graham was saying they knew they couldn't keep Fabregas and Nasri was wanting to leave, so get their replacements scouted and set up, even signed, then they are sorted for the pair leaving.

 

[Miko]

So yeah I was proved wrong about the Nasri thing, City's run being less impressive than United's and most other things I posted in my last post. I was going to mention the 8-2 but its been done, what I will say is.

Everton's named squad was puny, I think David Moyes is probably pound for pound (spending money this is) the best manager in the league, how long before he gets sick and tired of getting no backing and never being able to take them to the next level and moves on, of course, you know he's waiting for Sir Alex to retire and hoping that he'll get offered the United job.

Dont get me wrong, I am a fan of spending little, lots of Newcastle fans complaining about their transfer activity but now they've got a squad which has 2 young french Internationals, they've got a better team than last year anyway. Everton on the other hand just seem keen to shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[Murphy]

Ireland were awful today. But through outstanding defending by Richard Dunne, and quality goalkeeping from Shay Given, We managed to get a point. Leeds United's O' Dea also played well, dispite one or two shaky clearences, he made some great interceptions. Andrews and Whelan were woeful. They stayed very quiet through out the match. The only times I noticed Andrews was when he was giving away frees, except for that one great tackle towards the end. I'ld love to see Gibson and McCarthy start ahead, but the duo just don't seem that enthusiastic about playing for Ireland. Something defienitley needs to change in midfield. McGeady was poor too. Hunt did well when he came on, as did Cox. Keane should have came off earlier, or probably shouldn't have started at all, he cleary wasn't match fit. I would have loved to have seen Andy Keogh get the nod. He's been playing well for Leeds latley.

 

[BK Styles]

Does anyone else miss Jimmy Bullard in the Premier League? He wasn't/isn't the best midfielder but he wasn't bad, and most importantly, he has a great sense of humour. I really think football needs more characters like him.

 

[Ming]

So, on Sunday Chelsea will play Man Utd in what is the biggest match of the Premier League so far this season and arguably what has been the biggest fixture in the Premier League for the last 5-6 years.

Man Utd have been in very good form so far and for a change, have had a bright start to the season. They've won all their games so far this season and have had big wins over both Arsenal and Tottenham. Rooney is the Top Scorer in the Premier League so far and, as ever, will be a big threat.

Chelsea are also unbeaten but our most formidable challenges in the Premier League so far have been West Brom and Stoke. So Man Utd on Sunday will require a big step up, especially defensively. It looks like Torres will start, being a big game player and with Drogba out, it's understandable. Hopefully Mata will continue his great form and be the key to unlocking Man Utd's Vidic'less defence. Although Sturridge has been great and determined this season I don't think he's ready to start a game as big as this. A Man Utd-supporting friend of mine did say though, he fears Sturridge a lot more than Torres and I can't really blame him.

I'm predicting a close match that will end in a 1-1 draw.

What does the peeps of WrestleZone think?

 

[Miko]

3 - 1 to United, bold-ish prediction I know but United cant stop banging them in at the moment, whereas Chelsea are scraping by, I expect a strong finish to the season for Chelsea if Villa Boas is truly anything like Mourinho but the Blues just havent got going yet. Not to mention how United ran riot over them last year.

 

[Ming]

3 - 1 to United, bold-ish prediction I know but United cant stop banging them in at the moment, whereas Chelsea are scraping by, I expect a strong finish to the season for Chelsea if Villa Boas is truly anything like Mourinho but the Blues just havent got going yet. Not to mention how United ran riot over them last year.

Fair enough, Chelsea aren't the same as last year though. Last season was Chelsea's worst season during the Abramovich Era. Chelsea have improved a lot since then, we haven't defended very well so far this season but Utd's defence isn't that strong too and with split possession (usually is split between Chelsea and Utd) it'd be closer than a lot of people think.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I actually think Chelsea have a very good chance. Yes, Utd handed Spurs and the Gunners whippings but both matches have to be looked at realistically. Spurs have got a thing about playing Utd that is so bad that I'd imagine Alex Ferguson would break your arm just to play them 38 times each season. Apologies to all Gooners but the 8-2 was the worst game Arsene has every set tactics up for; seriously, sending a severely weakened side out to play all out attack at a full strength Utd AT Old Traffic - the board sacked Vince McMahon for smaller indiscretions than that!

Chelsea won't fear Utd but neither will they be fool hardy. If Rooney can be kept quiet, I can see the Blues sneak a win.

 

[Captain Morgan Freeman]

I think United will pull out the win. Usually United make a very sluggish start to the season grinding out wins but this season they have been red hot. Expect Rooney to bag a goal as he usually does in United's big league games.

I honestly don't think Chelsea have a chance if Torres is up front the guy can't score in a ****ehouse. With Drogba injured and Lukaku not ready for a game like this Villas Boas should take a chance on Sturridge due to his great form with Bolton last season.

I'm going to go for 2-1 to United with Rooney and Hernandez/Nani scoring for United and David Luiz getting Chelsea's goal.

 

[captainjack]

Can't really see united losing this game with the form of the two teams.
I think that Rooney will pick up a brace and that Nani will get one as well.
If Chelsea can get a couple of set pieces i can see Terry or Luiz scoring but thats the only way.

 

[Ming]

but thats the only way.

How's that the only way? Man Utd will be without Vidic and despite Smalling and Jones being in good form they aren't experienced in games like this, Smalling gave away a penalty against Chelsea last season and didn't Arsenal get two goals against Utd? De Gea is likely to start as well which makes it all the more likely.

That proves that Utd's defence isn't as strong as people think.

 

[captainjack]

Arsenal did get 2 goals but their attack has been good. I've just found the Chelsea attack rather lacking so far this season.

The main reason i mentioned set pieces is due to the fact De Gea seems to find high balls a little bit of a problem so i see headed goals being the obvious way to beat him but thats just my opinion.

 

[a0161613]

Arsenal's attack hasn't been good, it's been SHOCKING! Walcott, van Persie, Arshavin have all gone missing at various points and they don't look like scoring more goals than they concede, which is the only way to get them out of this slump until they can learn to defend as a unit.

Going forward, they just dont have a real cutting edge.

United's defense is vulnerable, Torres has a great record against them and if Chelsea can serve him well, with clear ball running towards the goal, then he will score.

I would say that United look more dangerous than either Chelsea or United at the moment. The key tactic in the game will be United's attack against Chelsea's defence.

 

[captainjack]

Whilst Arsenal don't have much lucky with their finishing atm i think the important fact is they are creating chances which is half the battle. Defensively Arsenal are a shambles and i think Mertesacker will just end up making this worse, he just seems to be very unreliable.

If Torres can manage to start playing again then i agree he'll score but i just feel the rut he's in is going to continue for a while.

I totally agree with you, I imagine this game is going to be spent mostly in Chelsea's half but if they can put enough pressure on the defense in the counter-attack they can force some errors from the United defense.

 

[Captain Morgan Freeman]

Defensively Arsenal are a shambles and i think Mertesacker will just end up making this worse, he just seems to be very unreliable.
.

I love how everybody's taking shots at Mertesacker since he moved. I bet the same people haven't seen him play in more then 5 games. Here's some facts about him from a Liverpool fan.
He has 75 caps for Germany despite only being 26 years old.
The guy is 6ft 6 making him a valuable player for crosses and set pieces.
After making his debut he went 31 games without a booking.
People say he is slow yet so are Terry, Ferdinand, King, Carragher and that's just a few i picked in the league who are still playing.
He may have played bad today but he was brought in to the club in the last few days of the transfer window. Lot's of players have a hard time settling into a new country without at least a full pre-season just ask Vidic, Evra, Dzeko, Modric, Nani, Berbatov and Mascherano who all made bad starts at their clubs after moving from abroad yet grew into key players for their teams.

It's easy to call someone shit straight away, most players need time to settle in at their clubs. I wonder will everyone still be slating Mertesacker after 18 months at Arsenal.

 

[captainjack]

I've seen him play a few games for Germany and in those games he seems to either play really well or bad. My problem with him isn't the fact he's not good, it's the fact you can't rely on him being good every game.I think he plays better when he's got an experienced defender with him.
I'm a Celtic fan so I'm just stating things as I see them, I just feel that he was brought in to fix things immediately for Arsenal.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Poor Fernando Torres!!

It actually looked like he was getting his form back in the Man Utd vs Chelsea game. He scored a good goal, had been playing pretty well and then this.......

[YOUTUBE]3M3jAmrrVA8[/YOUTUBE]

One of the worst misses of all time, and he did so well in the run up to the shot. He took the ball on well, completely fooled De Gea and deserved the goal. The total lack of confidence he has right now is sad to see. I actually felt sorry for him as the entire Stretford End laughed at him, I hope we see him get back to his best form sometime, as an in-form Torres is a magnificent player. But at the moment he is a £50m joke.

 

[Miko]

The Week that cried racism;

Ferdinand, Evra, that guy from that Spanish team who's name I've forgotten, shut up.



God I hate Roberto Mancini but theres no doubting he's done a fantastic job at that club, all of the criticism has been addressed and thrown back in our faces, mostly mine actually, "City are too boring," not this season they havent been, and stuffing 6 goals past United at Old Trafford 10 men or no is no mean feat. Such a shame they're all a bunch of *****.

They still are struggling in the Champions League though and that defeat to Bayern was a humbling, as a long time admirer of Munich I know they are the real deal and it was nice to see them batter City. City will find their footing in that competition though, once they drop Gareth Barry, who has proved once again that he's a waste of air and a squad place when it comes to big games against Germans, or Europeans at all for that matter.

The silent revolution at Newcastle continues, as someone that laughed at Alan Pardew when he got the job I must shut my mouth again, he's doing fine work up there, while everybody was crowing about the signings made by Stoke and Sunderland and how they're going to be contenders for the top 8 Newcastly silently snuck up and so far have been doing more to prove that they belong there. Although as the boring bastards always say, its a marathon not a sprint. We'll see how things pan out.

Think its hard losing United fans? Try being a Gillingham fan, we cant even keep a 2 goal lead when the opposition is down to 9 men. I swear they think theres only 80 minutes in a game.