The Cry of the IWC; STOP KILLING PUSHES.... As Long as it's People We Like....

[Con T.]

One of the things I'm noticing in my brethren in the IWC is that... We like to bitch. A lot. We bitch, bitch here, and we bitch, bitch there. Here a bitch, there a bitch, everywhere a bitch, bitch.

Old McBitchtits had a farm, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch.

And one of the things we love to bitch about is when pushes get cut from underneath the legs of certain wrestlers. Man, do the pitchforks come out; I'm pretty sure when Daniel Bryan lost in 18 seconds at Wrestlemania, someone in Titan Towers was going to die. When Zack Ryder gets his push completely demolished, we take to the forums, our greatest weapon, to talk about how no one in WWE is allowed to get over without the WWE's backing. If it were up to the IWC, we'd give all these guys more time, and let them get over, and cut this bullshit of judging a guy too early, before they have a chance to get over.

.... That is, unless he's someone that doesn't fit the mold of what we want. Because the IWC, who has proven to have a shockingly horrible finger on the pulse of what the casual fan wants, knows that it just wants something different, we get to swim in the schadenfreude of when the IWC judges a talent, based on the merits of that talent doing absolutely nothing. When it's someone who's different, we bitch when the WWE's booking team pulls the rug out from under the talent. When it's a wrestler that looks like a jacked up Roidy McGoo, we call for the WWE to do the exact same thing.

Don't believe me? Oh, come with me to this thread of Big E Langston, and witness some of the joys of wisdom from the oh so patient IWC, after just three weeks of Big E doing nothing;

IF/WHEN he does somehow go face..I think his face turn will be about as popular as Kahli's was. Kahli got pushed as a monster heel which I could see for Langston...then he got turned into a uselass sack of shit face, which I see for Langston unless they give him some sort of epic fued leading into his face turn.

Big E also seems to be deficient in the charisma department. Sure he's brand new, but sometimes it's easy to tell. Many have been raving over Brad Maddox, and for good reason. There is something about that kid that makes him watchable. He isn't the greatest actor or physical specimen, but he has something that draws you to him. Langston on the other hand doesn't inspire any emotions or lead one to think that he has "it." Granted he hasn't been given the kind of role that Maddox has, but based off of the role he has, I don't get the feeling he's capable of much more.

YES, WE CAN ALL CLEARLY TELL FROM THAT WHOLE... WHAT, ONE INTERVIEW! I'd really like for you to go back and showed me, when Brad Maddox was an unnamed official, that you thought he had it. And it would be one thing if I were calling out random names, though I do like Dr. Alas, no, as it turns out, we even see rash impatience from Our "Smarter" Posters

I went back to look at some of the older threads for men that have Big E Langston has been compared to most at this point, Mason Ryan, Ryback, and Ezekial Jackson. Of course, there's no comparisons at all to Brock Lesnar, because of course, we can already tell that the guy is going to be no good. So let's just stick with these three, all of which 99% of the IWC turned up their nose to immediately, sight unseen. Those threads went accordingly... IWC fans bitching that none of these men had "it", or that they didn't want to see another generic musclehead at the top of the WWE.

And of course, we can tell these guys were generic... I dunno, because they were. Granted, some of these guys did turn out generic, but that's really besides the point... If we, the IWC aren't prepared to give a guy a chance to get over in more than three weeks, why should we expect for the WWE to do the same?

So, please riddle me this, IWC. as a fellow member, I really must wonder; Where do you get off? How fair is it complain about pushes getting stunted in the WWE, when we do the same thing with certain guys? And isn't it completely unfair to pull the trigger on someone who hasn't even had a chance to do anything?

 

[scomvp316]

I can't speak for everyone else or even group all the ROH,WWE,and TNA loyalists all together on their opinions of their favorite promotion. I do think for quite sometime most fans and I mean wrestling fans not fans of WWE and there is abig difference between the two have been rejecting the bodybuilding type that most of them can't wrestle compared to guys like Flair,Steamboat,Arn Anderson,or Windham. Most guys of late say within the last few years get a push but then in the middle of the push gets pulled backed down with no on-screen explanation. What I mean by that is nothing is written in the script to show fans in the coming weeks why that talent's push has been rejected by management. The funny thing is thats what Russo did for years in TNA and the WWE fan bitched to the high wrestling heavens about that but don't complain as much when WWE does it. I guarantee most fans will reject Ryback no matter what he does in the future. The only way to get Ryback back on track is seperate him from Goldberg but probably VKM won't because he thinks most WWE fans will support characters no matter what. I will always support the best wrestlers and maybe its because I am old school but thats what I enjoy and I do believe most WWE fans agree with that but on forums just like to piss people off and chat the opposite point!

 

[Trill Co$by]

Personally, I love watching Ryback. I even liked Ezekiel Jackson, and Mason Ryan was great until they dropped him from CM Punk... he could've come back with that feud against Ziggler, but that didn't settle too well with someone hire up I guess. The point being, in more ways than not, I am the "casual" fan and I don't mind it. I realized a long time ago that in order for guys like CM Punk, Chris Jericho, or even Daniel Bryan to stand out there needs to be generic characters... even in the main event. Although, I'd hardly call Ryback generic. No generic character ever garners that interest, unless your last name begins with G and ends with G... right Gillberg?

Nonetheless, I tend to agree that the IWC knows not what it wants just what it doesn't want. I mean, take for example the Attitude Era. People clammer on and on about wanting it back but couldn't even stomach a silly segment with Heyman faking a heart attack. Just things like that always bother me, but that's just me.

Also, before I go... I'd like to say that IWC has a habit on turning on their own darlings without any reasoning for it, so I just take everything they say with a grain of salt.

 

[Albert T]

The IWC is filled with far too much negativity and seems to change their minds on a subject at a moments notice. Quite simply, they always want to be the rebel in the room, fighting to change what they see, no matter how good or bad of an effect it may have on anyone.

Perhaps they are bi-polar and in are in need of proper medication, or could just use a hug or a blow-job?

Whatever the problem, it seems that no one on the outside looking in is going to be able to remedy the situation, so perhaps we should just learn to accept them for the way they are, because trying to change them gets us nowhere.

 

[FPSRussia]

The IWC is nuts, they jumped on Miz's dick and proclaimed him to be a main-eventer for years to come, turns out he's struggling to stay in the midcard now.

I have yet to see any glimmer of greatness in Ziggler that the IWC seems to think he posses, he's a generic heel pretty boy, for god sakes I think Smackdown VS Raw 2006 has a preset that looks exactly like him.

 

[6timehitta]

Is it bad that I expected a Haiku after that helluva speech.

In all honesty, people as a species bitch. But it's a 50/50 shot "calling" a title run or a face turn. I mean honestly how long did people think Cena was going to turn? Shit I still get those die hard "I Hate Cena" guys who think all he is, is a hard body, and merch seller.

People as a whole like to bitch, I think because they aren't right and everybody at some point and time think they are right, or they can predict the damn future, or some sort of silly shit like that.

On the flip side I think people also like to brag about being right, or "predicting" something like a title change or face turn.

SO bitching will never go away, as long as some asshat continues to gloat or whine and moan like a little kid when they're wrong.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

So a thread bitching about the IWC bitching about guys getting pushed? Seriously? This is a MB. This is the place people come to bitch. Yes some fans take it a little too far but where do you expect them to voice their opinions? This is what happens when you have 100 different people all with their own opinions.

As far as Big E goes did it ever occur to you that maybe some people saw the guy before he got to the WWE? I did. Wasn't impressed then and not impressed now. The guy is a power lifter turned PW. Those normally don't turn out well and I predict this one won't either.

The IWC is nuts, they jumped on Miz's dick and proclaimed him to be a main-eventer for years to come, turns out he's struggling to stay in the midcard now.

I have yet to see any glimmer of greatness in Ziggler that the IWC seems to think he posses, he's a generic heel pretty boy, for god sakes I think Smackdown VS Raw 2006 has a preset that looks exactly like him.

I am one of the FEW, VERY FEW who likes the Miz. The IWC has hated the guy since day one. I am going to say that 90% of the IWC hates the Miz. It might be higher than that.

 

[Con T.]

So a thread bitching about the IWC bitching about guys getting pushed? Seriously? This is a MB. This is the place people come to bitch. Yes some fans take it a little too far but where do you expect them to voice their opinions? This is what happens when you have 100 different people all with their own opinions.

Well, criticism is valid, when you've actually seen what the guy is capable of. Most of the people on the board, mods included, confessed to not seeing anything from the guy. I'm sorry, where's the problem in calling them out for being judgmental of something they didn't know?

As far as Big E goes did it ever occur to you that maybe some people saw the guy before he got to the WWE?

Gee, you're right; when you have quotes like this;

So far, he's got that strange version of a body drop and nothing else, as no one has countered his move yet so we don't know how he'll mix it up with other wrestlers now that he's in the big time (I never watch NxT, so I don't know what kind of a performer he is).

And this;

If or when he does turn face, who can answer the question? We've yet to see him wrestle a match in WWE just now. Even in NXT, most of his matches have generally been squash matches that, apparently, the NXT audience eats up whenever he comes out. I've really no clue what he's capable of at this point, but I'd be willing to gamble that WWE isn't so sure about his in-ring ability at this point.

I can see where I'm lost in the subtlety of that

I did. Wasn't impressed then and not impressed now.

Oh please, explain to me the wonders of your knowledge of Big E. And tell me, did you not notice how he was the most over guy on NXT?

The guy is a power lifter turned PW. Those normally don't turn out well and I predict this one won't either.

Oh yeah, power lifters in the wrestling world Have No Future.

Wanna try again when you've grown a clue, bub?

 

[The Butcher]

Frankly I'm just glad I'm not on Haiku's infamous list.

During my short time here I've lambasted the fact that all a lot of you seem to do is complain. The thread starter for that Big E thread was asking for opinions on Big E's future as a face. I don't see it in him. I'm not allowed to? I don't recall at any point saying anything about WWE killing pushes. I'm glad my statement suited your rant, Haiku, but you're putting words in my mouth.

I've not grown impatient with Big E Langston. I, personally, me, myself, look at him and just don't see it long term. Whatever, though. Take one statement that suits your point, disregard the rest. Modern day discourse in a nutshell.

Maybe I do want to be on that list.

 

[WallsofZakku]

The IWC is nuts, they jumped on Miz's dick and proclaimed him to be a main-eventer for years to come, turns out he's struggling to stay in the midcard now.

I have yet to see any glimmer of greatness in Ziggler that the IWC seems to think he posses, he's a generic heel pretty boy, for god sakes I think Smackdown VS Raw 2006 has a preset that looks exactly like him.

Better yet, When Miz was heel i remember The IWC saying positive things about him. Fast forward now with his face turn and they bash the guy.
Now im not a Miz fan, never really have been but im just pointing out the obvious.
I'm just like "Please, will you SHUT THE HELL UP!!"

 

[P. Nut Butters]

Like Undertaker said: Most members of the IWC forgot that they were fans. They're only "smart" to what the people in the business allow them to be smart to.

In my opinion, many IWC folks just bitch to get off on personally arguing with each other, and I have also observed a popular trend of loving the underdog until he makes something of himself... (Being happy for someone who has been chosen by the biggest wrestling companies in the world to have a good spot... preposterous!!)

And there must always be new stars... because many IWC members have misconstrued the ideaology of guys like Paul Heyman, Jim Ross, Vince McMahon and others. Let there not be a dominant heel or face. Let there not be true heat or long programmes.

And the big one! Lets up-hold the Attitude Era and the once-was as the greatest of all time - even though I remember fondly of how message boards including this one used to bash the decades past that are now the holy grail, like Attitude and Ruthless Aggression eras. When they were actually taking place, people were screaming bloody murder and were about ready to hang themselves... same kind of shit that is happening today.

However, it's great that we're all so passionate - but it's good that we're all 'caged' up in forums like this, because if the wrestling business listened to IWC ideas on the whole, there would be no wrestling business anymore.

It's great to read so many discussions and there are some great fan fiction theories on here, but above all I'm just glad to have been a fan and still be one today.

The IWC has taught me that everything that is happening now is horrible and wrong and the only credibility exists in hindsight. Same old shit; different decade. Wait for the next 10 years to roll around... what a scary thought.

 

[jholcomb22]

So far from the replies, it feels that all these people hate the IWC and don't realize they are the IWC. Being someone who reads a lot of these forums, posting occasionally, I understand my position as a member of the IWC.

With that being said, we do clamor for change all the time. We want this guy or that guy to get the push. The biggest reason for this, in my opinion, is because we want somebody to read it, look at it as a brilliant idea, and the make it happen.
When we were all let in on the secret that wrestling was a scripted show, it seemed like they would be able to create magical moments a la the Giants beating the Patriots with the help off miraculous David Tyree catch against his helmet. Whatwe discovered was stories like that can't be scripted once you let the audience know that the show is scripted.
Instead of viewing wrestling as a sport where we can banter back and forth about who is better based on wins and losses, or quality victories or matches, we are forced to view it as a television show and complain or praise the writing.
We as the IWC want everything to be freehand everchanging. We don't want to see the shield attack superstar after superstar. We want it to take us by surprise one week and then a full explanation on why you surprised us last week. We have been informed that the great wizard is behind the curtain and now we want to know all he knows. We scour dirt sheets looking for every spoiler and possible spoiler, and when they don't deliver, we get angry and head to our beloved message boards.

The main reason I believe we do this like we do is because we truly believe that we can actually make some difference in the product that we are watching. However, as has been pointed outby some before me, as a whole, we really don't know what we ultimately want, just what we don't.

P.S. Good topic Haiku Hogan

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

Aye, well, it's just by our very nature. The only way in which you can try to avoid it is actively telling yourself to reserve judgement until something with real body gets thrown the way of a superstar. A guy like Langston who has only been around to interfere in matches and speak briefly on TV, you can't really make any claims about how far you think he'll go based on anything more than a funny feeling you get in your gut.

Another thing the IWC is guilty of which I have tried to repair is ageism. People like to proclaim this Paul Heyman-stemming mantra that the magic age is 40. After you get past 40 buy yourself a grey overcoat and slippers and sit in front of the fire watching Raw instead of being there. But you look at TNA and guys like Kurt Angle, Jeff Jarrett, Bully Ray, Sting, even Daniels who is about 40 now, you look at the work they are doing at their age and how entertaining and good in the ring they can be, and you have to reconsider.

The mistake that people make is in thinking that the WWE for instance, puts as much value in a certain wrestler as they do. So if a flavour of the month guy like Ziggler, who is a massive favourite right now of the IWC as a whole, doesn't get pushed to the top of card when they demand, he's being underbooked because he's not achieving the level of success certain fans think that he should. Similarly when you have a muscle bound guy and he's had one match in which he played a dominating role, like someone such as a Ryback, he's immediately stricken from greater things because he:

1) Only knows five moves.
2) Has no character.
3) reminds them of someone from the past and it is therefore just copying.

Or more than those. What people don't have to (but should) remember is that the WWE books wrestling to a general viewing audience. Kids adults, wives, brothers, families, older people, whoever. Not everything is going to appeal to you under that umbrella because not everything is supposed to, that doesn't make it wrong. The WWE doesn't book for you, given wrestler's values aren't determined by any one of us, they are decided by all of us and we all like different things.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

One of the things I'm noticing in my brethren in the IWC is that... We like to bitch. A lot. We bitch, bitch here, and we bitch, bitch there. Here a bitch, there a bitch, everywhere a bitch, bitch.

Old McBitchtits had a farm, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch.

Oh god this is so close to trolling. Ok first and foremost not everyone complains about everything. Just because one group complains about one thing and one group complains with another doesn't mean everyone likes to b**** a lot. You're just going to get a group of people that's going to be more vocal if they are not happy. Negative reactions are the ones that are most vocal and this is not just for wrestling.

Also whether we belong to the IWC or not most of us here are fans. Who cares if we are dissect things too much or are highly opinionated that's what PASSIONATE fans do. The ones that are hardest to please but will stick to the product from thick and thin.

Also there's nothing wrong with the IWC being skeptical many of us has been fans for years. Don't we have the right to voice out our concerns? You used a lot of big men as examples but looking at the history of Vince pushing Big Men to the moon there's a much greater percentage of a failed push than a successful one. We have seen what happened before so we have a set of expectations as a result. Example if a new movie based on a Nicolas Sparks novel comes out I can probably speculate the movie would be an absolute turd ... why? It's because most movies based on a Nicolas Sparks novel turn out terrible. Ok sure there are some that do nothing but complain but is that everyone or even most of us?

Also the IWC isn't the only group that complains a lot. It's not because we are the IWC or even because we are hard to please wrestling fans (by the way the latter I am proud off ... this means I can appreciate things more if I truly believe something has merit). Remember the Mass Effect fans that went berserk after the Mass Effect 3 ending? Bioware didn't say "oh who cares what they thinks" they realized fans weren't happy so they extended the ending. So this is not exclusive to wrestling ... the internet has open the flood gates for fans to critique and complain. And for me that's a positive and a negative. Now companies have a venue to hear about the complaints of it's fans. Heck the earlier Smackdown vs. RAW games developers admitted to reading forums to read the complaints of fans.

Long story short ... WWE has loyal and passionate fans and it's these fans that are going to be most vocal in their praises and complaints. And, like almost everything, its the complaints that become more vocal and with the internet that's going to further magnify. I don't know if you watch hockey or NHL but last season passionate Toronto Maple Leafs fans were chanting to have the GM fired during a game.

 

[JaylisJayP]

Eh, it has nothing to do with pushes. If the stories were good and WWE put half an effort into angles and character development anymore, people would calm down and let things play out. But because the IWC community knows things are throw together at the last minute every week with no rhyme or reason anymore, they get impatient quickly. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

^^^ true and again this is nothing diffrent. People like to compare the good old days when people don't critique the product every second. Of course things has changed and not just wrestling. If anyone has seen the History Channel's "Ultimate Guide to Presidents" they say that the 13 days Kennedy spent during Cuban Missile Crisis probably couldn't be done today. That's because in the 24 hour news cycle the press and public's patience has grown less and less as a result. Naturally this has affected wreslting also the fans and how fast news spread out. So yes fans have become less patient but that level of patience is not exclusive to the IWC.

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

Frankly I'm just glad I'm not on Haiku's infamous list.
Maybe I do want to be on that list.

I am on that list thus my location. I'm not exactly sure how I got there but I am there. I know it has something to do with something I said on either Metallica or the Beatles.

The IWC contradicts itself a lot. I've never seen such a large group of people that one minute will cry, "GIVE HIM A PUSH!" Then when they do get said push, "HE"S BORING AND STALE!" It's rather annoying.

I used to hate the Miz when he first came in but he won me over. I'm a Mizfit now. When Punk had his shoot promo they all screamed "GIVE HIM A PUSH!" Then he got the belt and a couple of months later, "HE"S STALE AND BORING!" I have been a Punk fan since his first day in ECW and I've watched a lot of his old stuff on Youtube since then. I didn't know what to think about Daniel Bryan when I first saw him. He has since become one of my favorites. I personally don't know what the IWC sees in Zach Ryder. He's never impressed me and apparently someone in WWE shares my sentiment.

I realize that I too am a part of the IWC, but that just shows that the IWC isn't all of one mind, we all have different opinions one way or the other so we shouldn't all be lumped into the same category. Great topic though and an equally great point Haiku Hogan has made. (In my Yoda voice.)

 

[D-Man]

I've brought this subject up from time to time in other threads and I always like to weigh-in on threads created by others on the topic. Here's my take on things...

The majority of the IWC doesn't have a clue as to what they're talking about when it comes to how the WWE should handle their product. Sorry guys but that's just a fact. (Granted, I'm not excluding myself from this statement, either.)

Too many IWC fans put their personal preferences above what would actually make the WWE money. They're nothing but a bunch of kids who watch a television show and since they've been such a loyal fan for so long, they think they know everything. They don't know the difference between their own personal flavor of the month and which superstars would actually make money for the WWE in the long run. (i.e. Zack Ryder symdrome... they were all about pushing him to a title run. Once he grabbed the brass ring, people stopped giving a shit about him.) Hell, they forget that the WWE is a corporation whose main purpose is to make money! The IWC thinks it's all about "entertainment."

So when all of these IWC members step up and say "Push X" and "Push Y", it's almost as if they wish to pacify their own personal preferences. That's the difference between a smark and someone who really knows what they're talking about... one of them bitches and moans about everything because they're personally frustrated while the other understands the "business" aspect of wrestling and how it all ties into $$$.

 

[Toroc102]

I love how everyone on here refers to the IWC as if they aren't a part of it. oh no that's not me. Uhh you are all commenting on a wrestling forum myself included. We are the IWC. The problem with you guys is that ya'll are still in the outdated mode of thinking that says oh the IWC doesn't matter or like the entire community of hundreds of thousands share the same opinion.

And by the way, they do need to stop killing pushes. Whether you like them or not WWE has gone out of their way to cut the feet off of about 20 or 30 pushes in the past 5 years or am I wrong? Nexus? AJ Lee? Daniel Bryan? Cm Punk? Zack Ryder? The Miz? R-Truth? I don't like evry on of those wrestlers but at one time or another each one of them was very over and were subsequently brought back down to Earth.

Also you know why most of the IWC hates bodybuilder type wrestlers? Its because they always get nearly unlimited chances to succeed. How many chances has a guy like Mason Ryan who by all account sucks at wrestling going to get? Hey I like myself a good Batista or Brock or heck even a Chris Masters, the problem is as soon as you see a bodybuilder its like oh no, I wonder which one of my favorites he will be squashing tonight even if he can't wrestle, can't talk, and basically has no charisma. Bodybuilders always get like a year or 2 to squash as many guys as they can. Hell just look at Ryback. Anyone think that Dean Ambrose could come in and dominate like Ryback has, get pushed to the top in less than a year? It would never happen. And thas not taking anything away from Ryback, dude is over.

 

[willross]

Also you know why most of the IWC hates bodybuilder type wrestlers? Its because they always get nearly unlimited chances to succeed. How many chances has a guy like Mason Ryan who by all account sucks at wrestling going to get? Hey I like myself a good Batista or Brock or heck even a Chris Masters, the problem is as soon as you see a bodybuilder its like oh no, I wonder which one of my favorites he will be squashing tonight even if he can't wrestle, can't talk, and basically has no charisma. Bodybuilders always get like a year or 2 to squash as many guys as they can. Hell just look at Ryback. Anyone think that Dean Ambrose could come in and dominate like Ryback has, get pushed to the top in less than a year? It would never happen. And thas not taking anything away from Ryback, dude is over.

I agree with your final statement. However, it is more realistic and easier to make the audience suspend their disbelief when a guy who looks like Ryback comes in and destroys people. It is realistic. If you saw a guy like him in a bar, what are the odds you would pick a fight with him? What are the odds if you did, he wouldnt kick your ass?

Cant say the same for a guy like Ambrose. He is a guy who, though could probably kick your ass in a bar fight, you might stand a chance or atleast be more willing to pick a fight with him yourself.

Thats usually why guys like Ryback have 10 minute PPV matches(if that) and guys like Ambrose have 20 minute PPV matches. Its just more realistic for Ambrose to be in long drawn out, back and forth fights than it is for a guy as massive as Ryback.

If Ambrose came in and beat up 2 guys at once every week, most people would call bullshit and resort to the old "well this is so friggin fake" or whatever. They dont do that with Ryback. Its reasonable. And those are the fans WWE has to keep intrigued as much as they can because most wont watch as often if they dont feel the ENTIRE product caters to them in some way. We on these forums are different and will watch for a handful of reasons even if we currently hate a majority of what is happening.

 

[dukes07]

Well, pretty much everyone has said what needed to be said, but I will throw in my Peso:

Criticizing what WWE or TNA does is no different than being an armchair QB. That is what sports fans do all the time. I and others heap tons of criticism on their favorite teams or least favorite teams or how Roger Goodell aka the Ginger Hammer is a fucking douche and David Stern is even worse. Hell you can extend it out to movies, books, music and especially videogames. I had no idea how passionate people were about their respective console and quite frankly that is sad (And yet here I am arguing about a fake spo....er, entertainment, fake entertainment).

I sometimes put my money where my mouth is and turn off the show and not watch a few weeks. For awhile it just was not fun. But I get sucked back in. I have learned as I have gotten older but not wiser that people have differing opinions. I realize that there are a lot of Cena fans on this board. I don't understand it but I respect it. I don't like the guy but I can see why WWE uses him as they do, despite some inherent dangers in the long-run.

There are some aborted pushes I don't understand such as Ryder but some I do such as Brodus Clay and Miz. I am miffed about the Nexus angle and Lesnar but I will get over it. Some things I don't understand such as why Randy Orton is still winning or why the secondary belts are pretty much useless.

I also think that many are guilty of looking back at wrestling through nostalgic eyes. There was some awful shit going down even in the Attitude Era and there were several angles or pushes that never happened (or expanded on) that should have. Or things such as the Corporate Ministry or InVasion that were poorly conceived and/or executed that they deserve the backlash.

WCW gets a lot of shit for not pushing guys and I agree to an extent. The nWo in 97 won far too much. Hurting angles and pushes such as the Steiner Brothers at Road Wild or the aftermath of the Horsemen the following month, some of it was just terrible and lazy. Flair should have gotten revenge and it took months for him to get back at Hennig, and he never really did. But at the same time they were allowed to do their thing and put on one hell of a show. I will argue and argue that Chris Jericho in 98 was in peak form and his first two years in WWF were fairly non-eventful losing in five straight PPV's at one point. Another example is Bret Hart in WCW. I do agree that they should have done more, but I also think that WCW was a bit hamstrung and I also think his 98 run was really underrated.

Ultimately there is a lot that should be bitched about both past and present. And most of us probably won't agree on what to complain about, but wrestling is like any other topic, everyone has opinions.

 

[Toroc102]

Cant say the same for a guy like Ambrose. He is a guy who, though could probably kick your ass in a bar fight, you might stand a chance or atleast be more willing to pick a fight with him yourself.

Thats usually why guys like Ryback have 10 minute PPV matches(if that) and guys like Ambrose have 20 minute PPV matches. Its just more realistic for Ambrose to be in long drawn out, back and forth fights than it is for a guy as massive as Ryback.

I see what you are saying but sort've disagree. Sure Ryback is easier to picture destroying people and I definitely wouldn't have Ambrose coming in and squashing people, BUT, he could still be booked as dominant without being a monster. For instance, to me Chris Benoit and the way he wrestled back in the day looked like he could and would take on anyone and like he could beat them. Sure you have to find someone that can look convincing while beating up on plenty of superstars but that's the advantage of working in a fake sport. They could always come up with some bs like,"oh he may weigh 220 soaking wet but this man has been destroying bars and beating badasses since he was 18 years old and the WWE is next". You know what I'm saying?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

One of the things I'm noticing in my brethren in the IWC is that... We like to bitch. A lot. We bitch, bitch here, and we bitch, bitch there. Here a bitch, there a bitch, everywhere a bitch, bitch.

Old McBitchtits had a farm, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch.

And one of the things we love to bitch about is when pushes get cut from underneath the legs of certain wrestlers. Man, do the pitchforks come out; I'm pretty sure when Daniel Bryan lost in 18 seconds at Wrestlemania, someone in Titan Towers was going to die. When Zack Ryder gets his push completely demolished, we take to the forums,

What are you saying? Why would someone be happy if WWE stopped the push of someone they enjoyed? We are fans, not stockholders.

our greatest weapon, to talk about how no one in WWE is allowed to get over without the WWE's backing.

Not sure who is saying this but it is not untrue. Of course the WWE is making their own decisions regarding what happens in their company.

If it were up to the IWC, we'd give all these guys more time, and let them get over, and cut this bullshit of judging a guy too early, before they have a chance to get over.

Huh? The IWC is not some unanimous collection of a single opinion. There is a lot of descent and not as much approval. Again, if someone likes a guy it makes sense to want that talent to continue to get pushed.

.... That is, unless he's someone that doesn't fit the mold of what we want. Because the IWC, who has proven to have a shockingly horrible finger on the pulse of what the casual fan wants, knows that it just wants something different, we get to swim in the schadenfreude of when the IWC judges a talent, based on the merits of that talent doing absolutely nothing.

And those people are right sometimes. They are called first impressions. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, what matters is how one acts. We come here to share those opinions.

What is the point of this I'd Wear Pippa Middleton As a Feedbag?

When it's someone who's different, we bitch when the WWE's booking team pulls the rug out from under the talent. When it's a wrestler that looks like a jacked up Roidy McGoo, we call for the WWE to do the exact same thing.

No we don't, some people do but we have varying opinions.

Don't believe me? Oh, come with me to this thread of Big E Langston, and witness some of the joys of wisdom from the oh so patient IWC, after just three weeks of Big E doing nothing;

A thread was started, people gave their opinions based on what they have seen so far. We're just fans, not bookers. I love the juiceheads but even I think Big E doesn't have a bright future. His head is too small for his body and his face is far from intimidating. The rest of his look is impressive but that is far from a guarantee of success. Unless one watches NXT, we haven't seen him in the ring but wrestling ability doesn't really matter all that match when it come to being successful.

YES, WE CAN ALL CLEARLY TELL FROM THAT WHOLE... WHAT, ONE INTERVIEW! I'd really like for you to go back and showed me, when Brad Maddox was an unnamed official, that you thought he had it.

Are you saying Brad Maddox has it? If so I would say that it is really impatient of you to make that judgment after a few squash matches and goofy sketches.

And it would be one thing if I were calling out random names, though I do like Dr. Alas, no, as it turns out, we even see rash impatience from Our "Smarter" Posters

I went back to look at some of the older threads for men that have Big E Langston has been compared to most at this point, Mason Ryan, Ryback, and Ezekial Jackson. Of course, there's no comparisons at all to Brock Lesnar, because of course, we can already tell that the guy is going to be no good.

Wait, Ryback is no good? I don't think anyone is betting their life savings or have a gun to their head, they are giving an opinion based on what they know from past experience.

At what point is it ok to give an opinion?

So let's just stick with these three, all of which 99% of the IWC turned up their nose to immediately, sight unseen. Those threads went accordingly... IWC fans bitching that none of these men had "it", or that they didn't want to see another generic musclehead at the top of the WWE.

Some members of the IWC discriminate against roidfreaks. It's just a personal preference. I don't know why but it is what it is.

And of course, we can tell these guys were generic... I dunno, because they were. Granted, some of these guys did turn out generic, but that's really besides the point... If we, the IWC aren't prepared to give a guy a chance to get over in more than three weeks, why should we expect for the WWE to do the same?

Double Huh? Again we're fans, not bookers. We enjoy some guys and dislike others. If someone sucks in their first three weeks, it makes sense for a member of the IWC to not want to see them anymore. If a member of the IWC likes a guy, it makes sense to be angry if that guys push ends.

So, please riddle me this, IWC. as a fellow member, I really must wonder; Where do you get off? How fair is it complain about pushes getting stunted in the WWE, when we do the same thing with certain guys? And isn't it completely unfair to pull the trigger on someone who hasn't even had a chance to do anything?

Because we think certain guys deserve more time and more chances and other guys are not worth the effort. It's not some enormous hypocrisy.

 

[enviousdominous]

They also like to relate ideas to fucking stupid metaphors that would bomb in real life, like re-writing the lyrics to Old McDonald with "Bitch" for comedic affect, it's called spending too much time on the internet. Look into it.

The IWC is a select group of wrestling fans that have found a unique association with those who have an equally pedantic obsession. It's not about the wrestling, it's about finally having something for which they can feel they have the slightest bit if insight into.

They're human, and it is impossible to satisfy a human being more that they would be if they were allowed to be dissatisfied. They express self-righteous disappointment, crass sympathies, dull comprehension of talent and tend to do so with the wit of an Adam Sandler fan.

I'm not a member of the IWC, because a pro-wrestling fan to me is a petty indulgence, not a lifestyle.


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