The biggest problem with Super Cena

[Cookie14]

First things first, let me say I'm NOT a Cena hater. But I'm not his biggest fan either, so I would like to think I'm not too biased here.

I'm not going to say it's his move-set, nor am I going to say it's that he's the face of the company. I won't even say that his gimmick is stale.

The biggest problem that I have with Cena is that he makes everyone else look so weak.

His match against David Ortunga was a joke. And he kept Batista down for a 10 count at the end of Raw, despite only putting him in the STF for about 10 seconds.

Watch his I quit match against Randy Orton. He was dominated for the whole match. Then he locks in the STF and it's all over.

No-one else stands a chance against him, and we all know it. I know it's all part of his superhero style gimmick, but it wouldn't hurt him to take a clean loss every now and then.

 

[luxferre]

Totally agree. The gimmick is damaging to other wrestler's. How can someone be dominated then DESTROY their opponent? It's absurd.

Typical McMahon see's the dollar's, but can't see the forest for the tree's!!

 

[ThePh3nomonal1]

Yes I also agree that it is one of the biggest problems with cena but I expect it to stop happening soon because even little kids will start to relise how predictable ppvs like extreme rules are.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

First things first, let me say I'm NOT a Cena hater. But I'm not his biggest fan either, so I would like to think I'm not too biased here.

I'm not going to say it's his move-set, nor am I going to say it's that he's the face of the company. I won't even say that his gimmick is stale.

The biggest problem that I have with Cena is that he makes everyone else look so weak.

His match against David Ortunga was a joke. And he kept Batista down for a 10 count at the end of Raw, despite only putting him in the STF for about 10 seconds.

Watch his I quit match against Randy Orton. He was dominated for the whole match. Then he locks in the STF and it's all over.

No-one else stands a chance against him, and we all know it. I know it's all part of his superhero style gimmick, but it wouldn't hurt him to take a clean loss every now and then.

Otunga has only been here for a cup of coffee and you expect him to put up a fight against Cena who has been in the business for near a decade. You have got to be kidding me. Otunga should be glad he was in the ring with Cena at all. Cena should have squashed Otunga and he did so why do you have a problem with it.

I don't know if you watched the ending of the Batista/Orton match (my guess is you didn't). Orton gave Batista a RKO and Cena came in and applied the STF. Why are you not complaining that Batista couldn't get up after the RKO which happened about a minute and a half I'll say before Cena ran in?

How did it make Orton look weak in the I Quit Match? Cena took everything he had and still refused to give up which is what the face is supposed to do. How many faces do you see win I Quit matches except Rey Mysterio (I believe he was injured at the time)? Orton looked strong in that match and it is not Cena's fault how the matches are booked.

Cena has lost a lot more in the past two years then he did when he first became champion. He's lost to JBL, Big Show, Sheamus, Batista, and Orton. You tend to see the win/loss record of your main stars even out as they get older. It's just starting to happen to Cena now and he doesn't make anybody look weak. If he did make everybody look weak, then they wouldn't dominate most of the match like they do.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Totally agree. The gimmick is damaging to other wrestler's. How can someone be dominated then DESTROY their opponent? It's absurd.

Typical McMahon see's the dollar's, but can't see the forest for the tree's!!

I remember a wrestler from years past who was dominated most of the match and then came back to win to the crowd's excitement? His name is on the tip of my tongue and I can't seem to remember. Wait a minute. I remember. His name was Hulk Hogan. He did it all of the time and the fans didn't have a problem with it or seemed to care. Cena is just doing what he is told to do. The face gets dominated much of the match so the crowd thinks he has no chance to win. Then he comes back with a big rush and defeats his opponent (mainly a heel) to win the match and the crowd enjoys it. I'm glad Vince was smart enough to recognize that Cena gets boos and cheers so they let him play to the crowd. I blame his selection of opponents in 2005 more than anything as the reason why he gets such a mixed reaction.

Yes I also agree that it is one of the biggest problems with cena but I expect it to stop happening soon because even little kids will start to relise how predictable ppvs like extreme rules are.

So are you expecting that Batista should win the title at Extreme Rules? Just throwing that out there. How has any PPV since December or any episode of RAW or Smackdown been predictable? Everyone thought Cena would beat Sheamus at TLC. He didn't. Nobody predicted that Swagger would win MITB and cash it in and become World Heavyweight Champion. The WWE has been more unpredictable as of late and I don't expect that change anytime soon.

 

[Panic Switch]

Cena hasn't made any wrestler look good since his match with Swagger last year. Then a few weeks later he squashed him and destroyed anything he had going. How can WWE ever expect me to believe Cena can ever even slightly have a chance of losing if they keep booking him this way? It just becomes so predictable. Cena will get dominated the whole match, Attitude Adjustment/STF, Cena wins. Not only does it make the other wrestler look bad, it gives people the misconception that Cena has a VERY small moveset. Making him appear to be a terrible wrestler. They need to just turn him heel and move him to the mid-card where he can be repackaged. The kids are even seeming to get sick of his bullshit gimmick. Just have someone injure him and write him off, make him return as a heel and make him a rapper again.

 

[Hot Soup]

It's a tricky one in all honesty.

I think the problem is consistency with Cena. One week he can wrestle a good match and another he can no sell 5 minutes of offence against him then hit the attitude adjustment or stf and win a match ( a few months ago against Cody on raw being a good example ).

As said above , he has lost plenty, I didnt expect the TLC result, he lost to Batista , Show knocked him out last Monday and there have been plenty of other times it's happened. I'm not totally swayed by the move set argument either , every wrestler has a bunch of moves they fall back on and hit every match.

Then if you want longer reigns and the title runs meaning more then you need people whether its Cena or not winning all the time!

 

[DemonWarrior]

The problem with cena is his limited moves in the ring lets go back to his first title win against JBL he pretty much has his ass handed to him the whole match to win.Look at himgiving his finisher to Khali Batista is more powerful then Cena but could not pick him up but Cena could.Lets face it Cena is a modern day Hogan little ring skills and using a war to his advantage.Only reason he stays near the top is because of children not those ofus who remember the attitude era and the federation years

 

[Amarillo del Bosque Verde]

I completely agree with you. Some matches he has go both ways, but some don't. Remember his match with dibiase last month? He didn't let ted do anything...and ted was getting his push too. He locked him in the stf and that was it. btw I'm not a cena NoEz 4 MoVeS guy...or a cena hater...I just think he's going over too much

 

[Cookie14]

Otunga has only been here for a cup of coffee and you expect him to put up a fight against Cena who has been in the business for near a decade. You have got to be kidding me. Otunga should be glad he was in the ring with Cena at all. Cena should have squashed Otunga and he did so why do you have a problem with it.

I don't know if you watched the ending of the Batista/Orton match (my guess is you didn't). Orton gave Batista a RKO and Cena came in and applied the STF. Why are you not complaining that Batista couldn't get up after the RKO which happened about a minute and a half I'll say before Cena ran in?

How did it make Orton look weak in the I Quit Match? Cena took everything he had and still refused to give up which is what the face is supposed to do. How many faces do you see win I Quit matches except Rey Mysterio (I believe he was injured at the time)? Orton looked strong in that match and it is not Cena's fault how the matches are booked.

Cena has lost a lot more in the past two years then he did when he first became champion. He's lost to JBL, Big Show, Sheamus, Batista, and Orton. You tend to see the win/loss record of your main stars even out as they get older. It's just starting to happen to Cena now and he doesn't make anybody look weak. If he did make everybody look weak, then they wouldn't dominate most of the match like they do.

Squashing Otunga just makes him, and as a result, the rest of the NXT rookies look weak, because he didn't get ANY offence in.

I know he has lost matches, but when was the last time he lost ANY match to a clean pinfall or submission? He either gets pinned after interference or wins by DQ. Even his loss to Sheamus was a table match.

I know he's a face, but still, he doesn't always need to come out on top. Have him lose a match or two, CLEANLY, show us that he is human

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The ignorance around here amazes me to no end.

Cena hasn't made any wrestler look good since his match with Swagger last year. Then a few weeks later he squashed him and destroyed anything he had going. How can WWE ever expect me to believe Cena can ever even slightly have a chance of losing if they keep booking him this way? It just becomes so predictable. Cena will get dominated the whole match, Attitude Adjustment/STF, Cena wins. Not only does it make the other wrestler look bad, it gives people the misconception that Cena has a VERY small moveset. Making him appear to be a terrible wrestler. They need to just turn him heel and move him to the mid-card where he can be repackaged. The kids are even seeming to get sick of his bullshit gimmick. Just have someone injure him and write him off, make him return as a heel and make him a rapper again.

He made the Miz look good during the summer. Compare the Miz to before he faced Cena and after he faced Cena. I think the Miz is doing pretty good for himself don't you think? He made Sheamus look good as well so you're wrong on all fronts. He does not need to return as a heel and for the millionth time, he does not need to go back to his rapper gimmick.

The problem with cena is his limited moves in the ring lets go back to his first title win against JBL he pretty much has his ass handed to him the whole match to win.Look at himgiving his finisher to Khali Batista is more powerful then Cena but could not pick him up but Cena could.Lets face it Cena is a modern day Hogan little ring skills and using a war to his advantage.Only reason he stays near the top is because of children not those ofus who remember the attitude era and the federation years

Both of you addressed this "limited" moveset. For the 10000th time, his moveset is just fine. He does not have limited moves in the ring. If you're saying he does, then every damn wrestler in the WWE does as well. Cena has great ring skills if you've been watching his matches. Everybody does the same number of moves each and every match. And please don't bring up the Attitude Era because from a wrestling standpoint, it sucked plain and simple and they should do as much as they can to go far from that as possible.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Squashing Otunga just makes him, and as a result, the rest of the NXT rookies look weak, because he didn't get ANY offence in.

I know he has lost matches, but when was the last time he lost ANY match to a clean pinfall or submission? He either gets pinned after interference or wins by DQ. Even his loss to Sheamus was a table match.

I know he's a face, but still, he doesn't always need to come out on top. Have him lose a match or two, CLEANLY, show us that he is human

So you expect a ROOKIE to look great against a 8-year veteran? How does it make the rest look weak? Otunga should be on his hands and knees thanking God that he got the chance to work with Cena at all. The other rookies would kill to be in the ring against the best in the business.

He has lost plenty of matches clean in the past few years as I have said before. You can just look back and see who I have stated he beat cleanly because I don't feel like typing it again. You and others place way too much emphasis on people losing cleanly. Maybe in your dream world it would happen all the time, but this is reality where it doesn't.

 

[Cookie14]

So you expect a ROOKIE to look great against a 8-year veteran? How does it make the rest look weak? Otunga should be on his hands and knees thanking God that he got the chance to work with Cena at all. The other rookies would kill to be in the ring against the best in the business.

He has lost plenty of matches clean in the past few years as I have said before. You can just look back and see who I have stated he beat cleanly because I don't feel like typing it again. You and others place way too much emphasis on people losing cleanly. Maybe in your dream world it would happen all the time, but this is reality where it doesn't.

A rookie can put a good match against a veteran. Just watch Cena's debut against Kurt Angle for a great example of this.
Cena has not lost cleanly against any heel for far too long, and when he goes up against a face, such as his match against HHH from before WM he wins cleanly. If HHH can take a clean loss to Cena,m then why can't Cena do the same for HHH?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

A rookie can put a good match against a veteran. Just watch Cena's debut against Kurt Angle for a great example of this.
Cena has not lost cleanly against any heel for far too long, and when he goes up against a face, such as his match against HHH from before WM he wins cleanly. If HHH can take a clean loss to Cena,m then why can't Cena do the same for HHH?

He lost against Big Show a month ago so there is a loss against a heel. HHH beat Cena cleanly at Night of Champions in 2008 and on an episode of RAW right before Survivor Series I believe. Look it up.

 

[Greenlight13]

I kind of agree, but it's intentional. He has to be the ultimate face. I'd imagine his win percentage is better than Austin & Rock's combined. He is more of a Superman than either of those two ever were, and I guess that's why adult males don't like him.

But as I said in the general Cena thread, he simply isn't aimed at us. He's aimed at those with short memories, those who forget that he's hit the F-U on the Big Show about 50 times and so believe he might lose each time he steps in the ring with him. WWE rewrites and ignores its own history, and each week can be a brand new one, so it doesn't matter if Cena embarrassed a heel, because next week that heel could leave him laying.

The kids don't care how strong or weak the bad guys look, because they're designed to lose. Bad guys cheat and attack good guys from behind, and bring their friends to help out, because the idea is that in a fair one on one match, the good guy is better than them, which is why they have to cheat in the first place. That's the story that they are presenting to children, that doing good makes you better.

Sure, WE know that Cena isn't going to lose to someone he's made look weak dozens of times before and so it kills the suspense, but his die-hard fans believe he's going to win every time because that's what they want to see, and anything less is a crushing disappointment.

So while I agree with you that he makes everyone else looks weak in comparison, making the WWE less interesting to me personally in the process, our opinions of the WWE don't really mean a great deal. If they marketed themselves entirely at us they'd lose a lot of money. ROH and Indie wrestling is marketed entirely at us and look where they are financially. TNA is marketed mostly at us, with a secondary focus on the women and children, which allows them to be in second place, but they're still way behind the WWE.

The WWE business model works because of how they market the company and the way they book their wrestlers, and they've been a firm number one despite wrestling losing popularity this last decade, and they've done it with Cena as Superman for a great deal of it.

And finally, heels don't need wins to look good. All they need to do is run in and attack a face, leave them laying flat, stand over them and gloat and they instantly look strong again, because the visual of them dominating Cena can be used to make people think he might lose.

 

[Cookie14]

HHH beat Cena cleanly at Night of Champions in 2008 and on an episode of RAW right before Survivor Series I believe. Look it up.

Ok, you just helped to prove my point here. His last clean loss to a face was in 2008? And you think he loses as much as anyone else???

 

[NXTrookie2013]

The biggest problem that I have with Cena is that he makes everyone else look so weak.

That is completley true!

My view on cena is he has all my respect, but his character annoys me, and what you just said, i never comepletley realized this.

He should put over young/new stars in WWE instead of dominating everyone.

Like, every since his wrestlemania debut, he's been in a title match at that event. One was for US title, the rest were for WWE Title and the WHC. It's really anoying xP

 

[MWRedskins]

I agree, Super Cena does get annoying and i will get to my points later, but first.
His match against David Ortunga was a joke.
That match, i had NO problem with. Cena is a WWE champion and Otunga is a young rookie on NXT who gets beat from time to time. If this is Jack Swagger or Orton or CM Punk (and it was him once, explain later) then yes, i complain.
And he kept Batista down for a 10 count at the end of Raw, despite only putting him in the STF for about 10 seconds.
don't mind this either, Batista just had a tough match with Orton and got RKOed, so i don't mind this.
Watch his I quit match against Randy Orton. He was dominated for the whole match.
my BIGGEST problem with John Cena as a face is right HERE. In an I Quit match, you KNOW who will win. Cena's never say quit line just tells us that Cena WILL win, he won't quit and we know that as fans.
No-one else stands a chance against him, and we all know it. I know it's all part of his superhero style gimmick, but it wouldn't hurt him to take a clean loss every now and then
I like it when a heel cheats, so no clean losses for Cena, BUT i agree, not many stand a chance vs. him. Batista is an example, the announcers will sometimes tell you who will win when they say, Cena can't beat Batista or how will he beat the Big Show? The announcers need to not help us with Cena ever

BUT my BIGGEST issue is when Cena does this. I am a CM Punk fan, Punk (whose an awesome heel) had a match vs. Cena for the superstar of the year and he loses the match in like 20 seconds, that is burying a good wrestler. CM Punk isn't garbage and Cena isn't superman. Stone Cold didn't go around beating Kurt Angle when he wasn't a WWE Champion in 30 seconds. The Rock didn't beat Rikishi in 20 seconds, So why is Cena beating Punk like he shouldn't even be in the IC title picture??? i don't mind Cena beating on rookies fast, but guys who have been world champions or who are in the IC title hunt, they should at least be given a shot to win.

 

[Slyfox696]

My Cena defending days are probably past me, but this thread is so far beyond stupid, you're lucky I don't close it.

How fucking stupid can a person be to think that a rookie with very little experience should be shown as the equal to the WWE Champion? Seriously, you would make your entire company look bad, to save face for a guy who hasn't been in your company 3 months? That's so fucking idiotic, I shouldn't have to take the time to tell you how idiotic it is. Cena is the #1 guy in the entire promotion, the CLEAR #1 guy in the entire promotion (both from a real and kayfabe standpoint, as Jack Swagger is clearly not as good as Cena in kayfabe), and you want him to have a competitive match with a guy who is in the WWE to look inexperienced, which is the whole point of having the pros help the rookies? That's asinine.

As far as the making Batista look bad...you obviously don't watch Raw very often. If Cena and Batista have been feuding for 8 weeks (merely an estimate), than Batista has looked dominant in 6 of those weeks. This week is the first I can remember Cena actually having the upper hand on free TV against Batista. And you're complaining about that? Again, you're being absurd.

But this...this is my favorite:

Watch his I quit match against Randy Orton. He was dominated for the whole match. Then he locks in the STF and it's all over.

So, let me see if I have this right...getting dominated by Orton makes Orton look weak? You're just being ridiculous...if he's getting DOMINATED by Orton, then Orton is obviously looking STRONG, not weak. Good god, did you just start watching wrestling yesterday?

And, as far as a clean Cena loss, I DARE you to find ANYONE in the company, who is a main-event face, who has lost cleanly as many times as Cena has over the last three years. I DARE you to go find someone. Cena puts more people over cleanly than anyone else in the company, a fact I find extremely curious, since he's their bread and butter.


This thread is completely stupid, and I suggest the threadstarter take a little time to actually watch professional wrestling before commenting on it.

 

[MWRedskins]

And finally, heels don't need wins to look good. All they need to do is run in and attack a face, leave them laying flat, stand over them and gloat and they instantly look strong again, because the visual of them dominating Cena can be used to make people think he might lose.
i half agree there. I don't think a heel needs to win clean to look good, but win (by cheating of course), but in order to look good, have them cheat, cheap shot people, but also TALK like they are the best thing since sliced bread. CM Punk and Chris Jericho and even the Miz are becoming those kinds of heels which is why they (in my book) are the BEST heels in the business and NEED to be used like that. The Miz and Jericho are, but Punk isn't. In my book, the Unified Tag Team Titles have meaning now and besides the world titles are the biggest championships wrestlers want, Jericho is in the world title picture, but CM Punk isn't. His feuds are gold, but the fact is, i can't get that 20 second loss to John Cena out of my mind.

And by the way, yes the Big Show beat Cena, but honestly, think about it like this, put the Big Show one on one with John Cena at a pay per view and Cena beats him every month. The Big Show vs. Cena is overdone because at the pay per view, we KNOW who will win, that's why Big Show is in the tag team title picture. He's too large and talented to not be used and every time he's in a big match, he loses.

 

[3,000 Pound Gorrilla]

I remember a time (as mentioned above) when we all wanted to say our prayers and eat our vitamins... There is nothing wrong with John Cena. Nothing. He is a very deidcated worker, who does what he is told. His in ring ability is that of a power wrestler. Look at any HHH match... you know you will see a spine buster, a running knee, facebreak knee smash, running knee drop, then a pedigree. Each wrestler has a limited move-set. You would never see Evan Bourne try a Attitude Adjustment...cause it don't fit. If John Cena makes everyone look weak, it isn't because he sits in back and plots to beat everyone and make them look weak. Blame the bookers or creative. John Cena is the face of the company, and will continue to be so for a while. And I say, if you don't like it, watch AJ Styles do five moves on TNA. And there you have it.

 

[Cookie14]

My Cena defending days are probably past me, but this thread is so far beyond stupid, you're lucky I don't close it.

How fucking stupid can a person be to think that a rookie with very little experience should be shown as the equal to the WWE Champion? Seriously, you would make your entire company look bad, to save face for a guy who hasn't been in your company 3 months? That's so fucking idiotic, I shouldn't have to take the time to tell you how idiotic it is. Cena is the #1 guy in the entire promotion, the CLEAR #1 guy in the entire promotion (both from a real and kayfabe standpoint, as Jack Swagger is clearly not as good as Cena in kayfabe), and you want him to have a competitive match with a guy who is in the WWE to look inexperienced, which is the whole point of having the pros help the rookies? That's asinine.

As far as the making Batista look bad...you obviously don't watch Raw very often. If Cena and Batista have been feuding for 8 weeks (merely an estimate), than Batista has looked dominant in 6 of those weeks. This week is the first I can remember Cena actually having the upper hand on free TV against Batista. And you're complaining about that? Again, you're being absurd.

But this...this is my favorite:


So, let me see if I have this right...getting dominated by Orton makes Orton look weak? You're just being ridiculous...if he's getting DOMINATED by Orton, then Orton is obviously looking STRONG, not weak. Good god, did you just start watching wrestling yesterday?

And, as far as a clean Cena loss, I DARE you to find ANYONE in the company, who is a main-event face, who has lost cleanly as many times as Cena has over the last three years. I DARE you to go find someone. Cena puts more people over cleanly than anyone else in the company, a fact I find extremely curious, since he's their bread and butter.


This thread is completely stupid, and I suggest the threadstarter take a little time to actually watch professional wrestling before commenting on it.

I never said that Otunga should look as good as Cena, but someone has to win NXT, and he is probably one of the favourites. All this match did was show that the rookies will get squashed against pros. Daniel Bryan had a great match with Jericho when he was world champion, but he didn't get squashed like Otunga did.

And as for Orton, him dominating the match doesn't make him look weak, quitting to the STF almost as soon as it was locked in DOES!!!!

 

[RKGO2SLEEP]

as much as a i love to hate on cena, and trust me i do.
little jerry lawler makes some really great points, otunga is still a very green rookie, and we expect him to beat the WWE champion?? none of us are really surprised by this or disagree with it, the only reason this thread exists is because people look for excuses to hate cena. and the moveset thing, lets be honest, why dont we complain about rey mysterio? he uses the same moves IN THE SAME ORDER for every free tv match. although ill admit he changes it up sometimes on PPV

 

[The Ultimate]

I agree with Cookie, have Cena get a few pinfall losses, maybe not in a row, but clean enough to disappoint the undying members of Cenation. And maybe even have him tap out to someone. After that maybe move him down to the midcard, and put over some of the newer guys, but keep him face, so the sales won't be affected. It would keep his fans happy, and shut the Cena-haters up.

 

[RKGO2SLEEP]

After that maybe move him down to the midcard, and put over some of the newer guys, but keep him face, so the sales won't be affected. It would keep his fans happy, and shut the Cena-haters up.

vince mcmahon will NEVER let cena drop below the ME. and again although i hate cena, he does deserve to be in the ME, he is the biggest star in the WWE and the ME is where the stars belong