The 2009 WZPTT, Round Two: HBKlunder vs. The One With No Team Name

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I'm supposed to be doing Algebra 2 homework. :p

In no particular order:

Gelgarin, Tastycles, IrishCanadian, Sam, Shocky, Shadowmancer, NoFate, TheOneBigWill, Y 2 Jake (Simply because he can make a logical argument for anything),Tdigle, fromthesouth, SlyFox, xfear, JMT, and MattMoses.

I will keep in mind this is based off your opinion. Obviously your opinion of KB isn't very high for one reason or another, but i believe in a top 15 poster list, its a crime not to have KB.
 
I would also rank Marquis, Showtime, Justin, and dozens more ahead of him. But hey, that's me. I just don't find:

"Discuss."

to be a quality post.

Me over Klunder? No way, but again i understand this is your opinion. He posts much more then "Discuss". As Ricky said, you should take a look at his WM review thread hes been updating.
 
I would also rank Marquis, Showtime, Justin, and dozens more ahead of him. But hey, that's me. I just don't find:

"Discuss."

to be a quality post.

So basically: "MSN Crew FTW"?

All this shows is how little you venture out of the Bar Room.
 
Oh and I don't know how you can say I don't post a lot, especially if you have Will on that list, who missed 6 months, and has barely been online recently. The irony amuses me.
 
Ricky is technically part of the "MSN Crew"...but no love.


Though, my invites have decreased tenfold since the many bannings of Deadman.
 
I would also rank Marquis, Showtime, Justin, and dozens more ahead of him. But hey, that's me. I just don't find:

"Discuss."

to be a quality post.

Neither do I. I do like these kind of posts though:

Wrestlemania 14
Date-March 29, 1998
Location-Fleetcenter, Boston, Massachusetts
Attendance-19,028
America the Beautiful-Chris Warren
Announcers-Jerry Lawler, Jim Ross

We have arrived in the Attitude Era full blast now. As of last year’s Wrestlemania, it was about as obvious as possible that Austin was going to be the guy that the company put itself on for the foreseeable future. Bret was gone due to Montreal and, we didn’t know it at the time, but Shawn was on his way out. This show was based completely around storyline with wrestling thrown in on the side. The big deal at this show was Mike Tyson. Floyd Mayweather at last year’s show was nothing but a cheap imitation of this. Tyson being on the show was absolutely mind blowing at the time as he was one of the biggest names in the world. We all knew Austin would get the belt, but with Tyson there we wanted to see how he did it. The other feud was a mind blowing one as well with Kane vs. the Undertaker. That feud is about as epic as you can get so I’ll go into the explanation for that when it’s time. This was the first show that was completely in the new era and it’s clear that the company was going in a new direction. You can see that in the very first match of the show. Before that though, we get an excellent video talking about how the new generation is killing off the tradition of Wrestlemania, but it questions if they really are doing so. Check it out if you get the chance. Where was I? Oh yes, the first match.

15 Team Battle Royal

This is for a title shot the following month at Unforgiven. Due to there being a ton of teams I won’t bother naming them all off, but the big one is the last one introduced: the returning Legion of Doom, managed by the epitome of sex appeal, Sunny. If you ask most people here, Sunny was one of their first crushes. Just an absolute goddess. Anyway, this is a pretty big clusterfuck of a match. The rules are that if one man is eliminated, so is his partner. The RVD sign in the crowd amuses me. The crowd is going nuts for LOD, who were always ridiculously over. Barry Windham, Bradshaw’s former partner comes in and eliminates Chainz, Bradshaw’s current partner in a run in that went absolutely nowhere. Kurrgan, a strange person if there ever was one, does a run in that’s so bad they don’t even catch it live and have to point it out on a replay. It’s a standard battle royal now with people getting thrown out here and there. Final four are the Godwinns, LOD, New Midnight Express and the DOA. Your final two are the LOD against the Midnight Express, comprised of Bombastic Bob (Holly) and Bodacious Bart (Gunn). The saddest part is, I’m not making that up. Care to guess who wins here?

Rating: C. The problem here is simple: as soon as the music hit, the winners could not have been more obvious. Other than that it’s a run of the mill tag team battle royal. Sunny’s amazingness gets it an upgrade.

Light Heavyweight Championship-Take Michinoku vs. Aguila

This is the epitome of filler. No one ever knew what to do with these guys so it would be Taka vs. random opponent of the month. This whole title was just a waste and I don’t think anyone missed it when it was exiled to Metal. It was clearly a response to the Crusierweights, but the problem was simple: most of the good cruiserweights were taken already. Aside from Taka, the WWF guys had no personality, no substance to them at all, and were just dull. There was absolutely no structure to the division whatsoever. See what I’m doing here? I’m typing this out so I don’t have to be bored to death by this match. The problem is, it’s not even a bad match. I just don’t want to watch it because I know it means nothing and is just a random title defense for Taka. A flip catches my eye but I don’t care. The crowd is barely responding at all and if it wasn’t a white hot crowd, they likely wouldn’t have been at all. The ending is even odd. Taka just casually picks Aguila up and lands his piledriver thing for the pin.

Rating: F. It’s a shame too because the wrestling is fine I suppose. The problem is just that absolutely no one could have cared less.

We see some woman that had something to do with Bill Clinton interviewing the Rock.

European Title: HHH vs. Owen Hart

This feud is a residual effect from Montreal. It’s given the time it should be and it’s fairly solid all around. Enjoy.


The time as leader of DX was on the horizon as was his face turn. That would lead to one of the best feuds of the late 90s between him and the Rock, culminating in an absolute war in the ladder match at Summerslam.

Rating: B. The only thing keeping this from being a very good match is the ending which I hated as Slaughter was made to look like a buffoon. These two really didn’t like each other and that showed in the ring. Excellent match with HHH getting to show what he could do in the ring, and he wasn’t married to Steph yet.

Marc Mero/Sable vs. Luna and Goldust

In a video package that goes on for way too long, we get this match’s backstory. Mero was an unpopular wrestler that had a hot woman with him. He used her to get attention on him, but she got too popular. He instead got Goldust and Luna to get attention on himself, but that backfired when Luna got jealous of Sable. Goldust tried to protect Sable and Mero got jealous, leading to this monstrosity. Let’s get this over with.

Obviously Mero and Goldust do most of the work here. You know, Mero wasn’t actually that bad in the ring. He was pretty athletic and his gimmick was at least somewhat original, but at the same time he just was boring to watch. Having Sable with you probably had something to do with that I guess. Of course Sable gets the glory here by being told she’s such a great wrestler. This led to a somewhat sad story actually. After this match, Luna, a long since established veteran, claims that Sable refused to learn how to take bumps and would only get punched of slapped while Luna did all the work. After the match, Sable was congratulated by everyone while Luna was left completely alone, with the exception of one person telling her she did well: Owen Hart. If you watch the match, you can see that Sable is completely clueless and is only able to do the two big moves that she knew. Other than that it’s all Luna. Also, Luna had always wanted to be the Women’s Champion, yet never got it because of Sable. A very sad story to me.

Rating: C-. When Mark Mero makes a match decent, you know you’re in big trouble.

Jeff Jarrett and that woman from the Rock interview are presented to the crowd in a total waste of time. Thank goodness the Nation of Domination’s music plays to hurry this along.

IC Title: The Rock vs. Ken Shamrock

This was an interesting little feud here. Shamrock was built up to be this fighting machine that had Rock’s number. Recently, Rock had gotten under Farooq’s, the leader of the Nation, skin, claiming that he, the Rock, was the reason for the group’s success. Four members of the Nation including the Rock are at ringside to face Shamrock. God that woman’s voice is annoying as hell. Shamrock really was sweet at what he did. He knew how to fight and he made sure you knew it. While never a great wrestler, he was completely legit and it made him that much more impressive sounding. Rock’s heritage is explained for the ten thousandth time, without it once being explained why his last name was Maivia and his father’s last name was Johnson. In less than five minutes, Shamrock gets the ankle lock (which in purely revisionist history, Kurt Angle is credited with bringing into wrestling, and that is total bullshit as Shamrock was using it almost 5 years earlier) and Rock almost instantly taps to give Shamrock the title. The Nation runs in and Shamrock lands what he called a belly to belly suplex on all of them, including a still awful Mark Henry before locking on the ankle lock on Rock again. Farooq runs down for the save but stops on the apron of the ring before saying screw you to the Rock and leaving. Shamrock starts beating up referees as Rock is taken out on a stretcher and just looks dead. However, because Shamrock kept attacking Rock after the match, the referee reverses the decision and he’s not happy. He chases the stretcher down and beats up the Rock on the band’s stand from earlier in the night. You know, I’ve always wondered something. If the referee can reverse a decision after a match, could they do it years later? Like, could the referee from the ending of WM 4 say that Ted DiBiase really won and has been champion for almost 21 years?

Rating: C. This wasn’t meant to really be a serious match and it showed. This is something that belonged on a Raw. Not bad, but just don’t see why this needed to be on Wrestlemania.

Tag Titles: Cactus Jack/Chainsaw Charlie vs. New Ago Outlaws

The backstory here is simple. Jack was feuding with the Outlaws and got tired of getting beaten up, so he got his friend Charlie, a.k.a. Terry Funk to help him. Eventually the Outlaws threw them in a dumpster and threw them off the stage. This match for the tag titles is the result of that act.

Since this is one of the few not legendary matches left, here it is.

[youtube]oAzQnPO96yI[/youtube]

[youtube]KIhIGseW7B4[/youtube]

Rating: C. This is really just another fight and not much about wrestling. It’s ok, but nothing great. Big points to Funk for taking those bumps though. The other problem I have with this match is that the next night on Raw, the Outlaws would get the decision overturned because they were put into the wrong dumpster. Later that night, the company just happened to have a steel cage handy so the titles were on the line in a cage match. DX interfered, giving the titles to the Outlaws, who finally joined DX.

Now we get to the real stuff on this card. This whole show was built around two matches: the WWF Title match, and this one right here. In what might have been the best booked “silly” feud of all time, the Undertaker was set to do battle with his brother Kane. My God this was built up perfectly. Sit back, because this is a long backstory. After Paul Bearer betrayed Taker at Summerslam 96, Taker was going after him. Midway through the previous year when Taker was WWF Champion, he feuded with Mankind, managed by Bearer. During that feud, Bearer mentioned the name Kane. This drove Taker insane as he kept trying to cover up what this name meant. Finally Bearer revealed that it was Taker’s brother, and that Taker attempted to kill him. This led to Bearer eventually saying that when Taker’s parents were killed in a fire, the Undertaker was the person that started the fire in an attempt to kill his parents. What wasn’t known was that his brother was in the house with them. Taker says that it was an accident and that he tried to rescue them but firefighters held him back. Bearer would go on to reveal that he was in fact Kane’s father. This results in one of the worst beatings ever recorded on WWF television, but it ends with Paul saying that it’s the truth and that Kane told him, because Kane was still alive. Apparently Paul rescued him from the fire and cared for him for the last 20 years, which was unknown to Taker. This was all revealed over a several month long period of time. Finally, in August, Taker was facing Shawn Michaels in the first ever Hell in a Cell match. Shawn gets one of the worst beatings of all time, but as Taker signals for the Tombstone, the lights go out and we hear organ music. An explosion goes off and a 7ft giant walks through the curtain, accompanied by Paul Bearer. Taker is stunned as this man rips the door to the cage off and tombstones Taker, allowing Shawn to pin him. There was one key to this whole thing that made it work to me: for probably 3 months, you only heard about Kane. Until the night of the Cell match, you never saw him. You didn’t know what he looked like, you didn’t know how he dressed, you didn’t know how big he was. You knew absolutely nothing at all but what you heard. All you knew was he was the Undertaker’s brother. After all the buildup you got about him, no matter what he looked like when you finally saw him, he was going to be awesome. That my friends, is how you build up a character.

Anyway, Kane of course wants to fight his brother. In the interest of ratings, Taker says no way. Kane begins just destroying people left and right, including two brothers named Matt and Jeff. They never did anything after that I don’t think. Kane would randomly run in and beat people up, all while begging the Undertaker to fight him. He would come to the ring and beat up his brother, but Taker kept insisting he couldn’t fight his own flesh and blood. Kane punched him one night and raised him hand to do it again, but Taker blocked it. The crowd went nuts over him simply raising him arm. Taker didn’t fight back though and got beaten up again. Finally, Taker and Shawn were feuding again, leading up to the Rumble. HHH kept interfering, but one night, out of absolutely nowhere, Kane helped his brother. That Sunday at the Rumble, Taker was gang attacked and Kane came out. However, he beat up his brother and shut him in the casket, costing him the match. Kane then locked it shut and set it on fire. However, after this occurred, it was revealed that the casket was empty, prompting Paul Bearer to be absolutely terrified, knowing that Taker was still alive somewhere. Kane continued to ravage the company, until one night on Raw, the arena was covered by a blue light, and druids brought out a body on a pedestal. A bolt of lightning hit it, and the man on it rose up, revealing himself to be the Undertaker himself. In a completely over the top yet still amazing promo, the Deadman said he will gain his revenge on his little brother, accepting his challenge for Wrestlemania. The next week on Raw, Kane was in the ring having called out his brother, yet instead Taker appeared on top of the titantron, talking about how Kane would feel his wrath. Taker then threw a lightning bolt at the stage, igniting a coffin that was standing up. Inside was an effigy of Kane, that began burning.

And that finally leads us to this.

Kane vs. The Undertaker

Before the match, Pete Rose appears, insulting Boston. Kane then comes out and tombstones Pete Rose, starting a three year running joke feud between the two which was rather funny in my eyes. Anyway, JR puts it just right: as Taker is about to appear, JR says, “This ovation will be not of this world.” He couldn’t’ have been more correct. The fans all have their lighters out, they’re going crazy, Taker has a line of druids all holding up torches which he walks under, the lightning, the thunder, the smoke, and Taker dressed in his demonic attire. It was absolutely amazing looking and finally the pair face off in the middle of the ring. For the next fifteen minutes plus, Kane dominates the Undertaker. Taker gets his short comebacks in here and there, but for the most part it’s all Kane. Taker is finally able to tombstone Kane but it doesn’t work. Taker gets Kane outside and launches himself over the top rope but Kane avoids him and Taker crashes through the table in a sweet looking spot. Say what you want about the Deadman, but that spot is amazing every time. Taker comes back and gets a second tombstone but still can’t pin Kane. No one had ever kicked out of the Tombstone before, so for someone to do it twice was mind blowing. Finally, after the third tombstone, Taker gets the pin. In what I’ve always thought was a mistake though, Kane nearly gets his shoulder up before three and very well may have. Anyway, afterwards Kane tombstones Taker onto a chair, setting up a later match between the two.

Rating: A. While not great from a technical standpoint, this match’s build up was out of this world. A fine example of the hype carrying a match rather than the in ring work. The streak is beginning to mean something now as it reaches 7-0, although I don’t think that’s mentioned for another three years.

WWF Title: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels

Basically there’s not much build up here. Austin won the Rumble and got the title shot. On Raw one night, Vince had Mike Tyson show up as a guest, but Austin got in his face, flipping him off and starting a fight. This is what planted the seeds for the Austin vs. McMahon war that went on for nearly two years. Tyson is named the enforcer referee for the title match, but joins DX in between. It was his involvement with Austin that is credited with putting the WWF over the top of WCW, so in the end this was a great move.

We all pretty much knew who was going to win here, but we watched to see how Tyson would play in and how Austin would do it. Looking back now and knowing how much pain Shawn was in because of his back, this match goes way up in impressiveness for me. You can tell when Shawn is selling and when he’s in real pain and it’s good to see that despite Shawn being a complete ass backstage, he would go out and perform despite the pain he was in. I don’t care how big of a jerk he was, that takes guts. This match pretty much comes down to who is going to hit their big move first. The match itself is much better than I remember it being. That’s not saying much because I, like most people, barely remember it. We all know the ending and the buildup, but that’s about it. Chyna and HHH are out at ringside to help Shawn but are thrown out for interfering. Other than that, it’s a standard Shawn PPV match with all his big spots. The referee goes down as Shawn sets for chin music. He misses, Austin goes for a stunner that misses, Shawn is sent into the ropes which he comes off with another kick attempt but Austin catches it, spins him around and nails the Stunner as the crowd explodes. Tyson slides in and counts the three as Austin finally takes his place atop the wrestling world. JR’s commentary is perfect as always as he when the count goes down, he simply says, “Austin is the champion!” Austin goes to the corner with the belt in hand and as he swings it over his shoulder, JR shouts out that the Austin Era has begun! He couldn’t have been more right.

Rating: B+. Everyone and their mother knew Austin was going to win, but considering Shawn’s pain and the fact that it’s so historic, it merits a solid grade.

Overall Rating: B+. If there’s ever been a show where the torch was completely passed, you’re looking at it. Austin winning the title finally is as about as important of an event as you can possibly have in company history. It launched the WWF ahead of WCW in the war, although that wouldn’t be official for a few more weeks, and it was also the last time Shawn would wrestle for nearly 5 years. However, counting in the Taker match, the solid work elsewhere and only two bad matches, you really do have an all around solid show. It’s not great, but it’s certainly worth checking out. Skip the Light Heavyweight match and you’ll love the rest of it.
 
Didn't say he posted a lot, but he's a great poster. The same can't be said for you.

"Shawn Michaels is great and can beat anyone."

That assumption of that being all I say, has always made me laugh out loud. Usually used by idiots who don't venture out of the Bar Room.
 
OMG people settle down. 48.7 I have to disagree with you, KB is way up there and so is Becca. Both in the top 10 when they are doing it often ( which they are doing now), Now JMT is solid and so is Gelgarin, but I fail to see how he is better than KB or becca. I have seen probably 5 or 6 posts at most from Gelgarin the whoel time he has been on the site so if that isn't telling you something then I don't know what is.

So if you want to vote for someone that contributes alot to the site and are very good posters then vote HBKlunder. If you want to vote for a team that alot of people think is the BEST poster on the site and someone that doesn't post as often anymore and doesn't contribute as much as KB or Becca then go ahead, vote for the team with no name.
 
You know when a good time to tell people to settle down isn't?
Sandwiched between an "OMG" and a meandering rant.

Anyway to answer the Gelgarin related parts of that point, I've always been a strong believer in the philosophy of quality over quantity. Wherever post count applies, I generically don't post unless I believe I've not only got something worth saying, but also something that is, to everyone else, worth reading.

As for why you should vote for Team Gelgarin (the name was canned in negotiation, but JMT's replacement was lame, so I'm bringing it back)... well, if you're basing it on popularity, who you like, who contributes more, the bar room, history on the site of staff work... then you probably shouldn't. If you confine your focus to quality wrestling posting then Team Gelgarin probably wins. JMT apparently does a bunch on NWS stuff as well, although a can't say I've ever noticed. Basically though, we're the Shelton Benjamins of the forum. Pure wrestling (posting) talent, and that's about it. (My obviously untapped barrels of charisma excluded).

Of course, the metaphor falls short when you consider that Shelton sucks ass, but I'm still happy with it.
 
You know when a good time to tell people to settle down isn't?
Sandwiched between an "OMG" and a meandering rant.

Anyway to answer the Gelgarin related parts of that point, I've always been a strong believer in the philosophy of quality over quantity. Wherever post count applies, I generically don't post unless I believe I've not only got something worth saying, but also something that is, to everyone else, worth reading.

As for why you should vote for Team Gelgarin (the name was canned in negotiation, but JMT's replacement was lame, so I'm bringing it back)... well, if you're basing it on popularity, who you like, who contributes more, the bar room, history on the site of staff work... then you probably shouldn't. If you confine your focus to quality wrestling posting then Team Gelgarin probably wins. JMT apparently does a bunch on NWS stuff as well, although a can't say I've ever noticed. Basically though, we're the Shelton Benjamins of the forum. Pure wrestling (posting) talent, and that's about it. (My obviously untapped barrels of charisma excluded).

Of course, the metaphor falls short when you consider that Shelton sucks ass, but I'm still happy with it.

Enter: HBK-aholic.
 
You know when a good time to tell people to settle down isn't?
Sandwiched between an "OMG" and a meandering rant.

Anyway to answer the Gelgarin related parts of that point, I've always been a strong believer in the philosophy of quality over quantity. Wherever post count applies, I generically don't post unless I believe I've not only got something worth saying, but also something that is, to everyone else, worth reading.

As for why you should vote for Team Gelgarin (the name was canned in negotiation, but JMT's replacement was lame, so I'm bringing it back)... well, if you're basing it on popularity, who you like, who contributes more, the bar room, history on the site of staff work... then you probably shouldn't. If you confine your focus to quality wrestling posting then Team Gelgarin probably wins. JMT apparently does a bunch on NWS stuff as well, although a can't say I've ever noticed. Basically though, we're the Shelton Benjamins of the forum. Pure wrestling (posting) talent, and that's about it. (My obviously untapped barrels of charisma excluded).

Of course, the metaphor falls short when you consider that Shelton sucks ass, but I'm still happy with it.

I failed to see how I was ranting there. I didn't bag either of you two teams. I jsut simply said the logical choice is what you listed above.

It doesn't really matter who you guys vote for they/you will end up losing to LAP Dancers!!
 
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