Completely unrelated to what you've said, but I've got nothing but love for the KJT sig.
Summer Olympics 2012 LD
- Thread starter Tastycles
- Start date
Completely unrelated to what you've said, but I've got nothing but love for the KJT sig.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
In both men's and women's beach volleyball, there have only been two years America didn't win the gold. Clearly America is too dominant, let's prevent them from competing.
I'm sorry, the idea that athletes should be excluded for being too good is just ridiculous. Not to mention the fact, that of the last two gold medal given in men's basketball, America has only won one of them.
Finally, and this is hasn't been discussed, let's say we DO remove all pros from Olympic basketball. And I mean ALL pros, from every country. Do you really think American dominance would be any less? If we put the NCAA All-American team (first and second) together, do you think any other country would be competitive?
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
If you took out everyone that counts as a professional these days, most sports would not be represented at all or the standard would be so low that no one would want to watch it.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
Does American TV really count all medals as the same when it comes to tabulating their medal tables?
Sure, Russia has 4 more medals than the UK but we have 13 more golds than them.
Sure, Russia has 4 more medals than the UK but we have 13 more golds than them.
That's not what I'm saying, beach volleyball has only been an olympic sport since 1996, in the men's competition there have been five different teams to win the gold medal. America is not dominant by any means and this year the men's team cannot get a medal. As for the Women before the current (three time) olympic champions America had not won a single medal.
That's not really dominance as far as I can see, Beach Volleyball is competitive with multiple countries in view of a gold medal. If America wins gold at the next thirteen Olympic games then there might be a valid discussion here.
That's not really what I'm arguing, historically Olympic basketball is NOT competitive, out of the four times America did not win the gold they were screwed twice and didn't compete once, that's only one time in eighty years that anyone has beaten them without controversy.
That's not competitive, which is the point I'm trying to make, and also given that they have limited the number of sports to twenty eight some sports are going to have to go to make room. I'm saying that basketball should be considered as a sport to lose because it's a one horse race and unless there is a massive worldwide shift in the popularity of basketball that isn't going to change.
Барбоса;4054717 said:
Barbosa makes the point I would make in that regard, removing pros isn't the solution by any means and isn't relevant to the point I am making.
Olympic Basketball is not competitive and it won't be without making it uninteresting to watch or a global culture shift, therefore should a sport get removed from the list for Rio, basketball should at least be considered.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Goooooooooooooooooooooal
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
Watching Taekwondo with the soundtrack from Bloodsport playing in the background; it's epic.
shattered dreams
Hexagonal Hedonist
Goooooooooooooold
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
Boy, was that ever a hidding that the GB men's hockey team got tonight
Барбоса;4054717 said:
I'm not sure I can accept this statement. There can be clear definition between what constitutes a professional and what does not, and once the guidelines are established, a high standard of play can be maintained, with a level playing field.
The issue is not one of a dominance or a lack thereof. Is a question of whether professional athletes should be competing against amateurs to establish this dominance. This definitely applies to men's basketball. I'm not sure it applies equally to beach volleyball. More on this below.
I'm not suggesting excluding people because they are simply too good. I'm suggesting restricting professional athletes in what should be a showcase of amateur excellence. If a nation can still maintain their dominance under these conditions, more power to them.
Well I guess this is a hypothetical question which we will never have answered, because the men's basketball team have rendered the question irrelevant. If I were to guess, I would suggest that the end result would be, in all likelihood, virtually unchanged. I expect the American men would still be dominant, and I for one would have absolutely no problem with it. I have no problem with dominance. My problem is with dominance on an uneven playing field. Put a team together of NCAA calibre talent, versus similar talent from other countries, and I would still expect the USA to be a powerhouse. But at least the combatants would be amateurs versus amateurs, and the end result would not be preordained.
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
There are amateur championships in basically every sport already.
And guess what? No one watches them.
On top of that, with only a few exceptions - men's boxing, men's football - the Olympics is about being the best. And the best are no longer amateurs, and have not been for a long time.
American women only lost 1 set out of 43 in going 21-0. How is that not domination?
But I agree, it's not a valid discussion. Because it's silly to say being good at something should keep you out of the Olympics.
Of course that's what you're arguing. Because America is good at basketball, we shouldn't have basketball as an Olympic sport, or alternatively, shouldn't let the best Americans play.
There has been a massive worldwide shift in the interest of basketball over the last 20 years. You clearly don't follow basketball at all.
Of course, given the fact your location says UK, given how bad the UK team has been, I don't blame you for wanting to get rid of basketball.
But if you DID follow basketball, you'd know it's experienced a MASSIVE upswing in interest across the world. In fact, I'd say it may very well be the fastest growing sport worldwide right now. Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's the most popular (obviously), but I think it's the fastest growing sport in the world.
I suggest you do a little research. You would find there has been a global shift in interest in basketball in the last 20 years. For example, back in 1992 when NBA players were first allowed to play, nobody knew ANYONE's name who wasn't on Team USA, including Team USA. Today, Argentina has 4 NBA players on their team. Spain has have 5 NBA players, and I think Rudy Fernandez has played in the NBA. France has 6 NBA players.
The difference between Team USA and those countries is still depth (and LeBron James and Kevin Durant), but to insinuate Team USA dominates in the same manner they dominated 20 years ago is simply false. And as time goes on, it will become more and more competitive.
By the way, with America's win in the women's soccer/football, they have now won all but one gold medal in the Olympics (the other was a silver). Should we eliminate soccer from the Olympics, since America has been so dominant?
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
As for the women's beach volleyball team: they've won the last three gold medals and they literally couldn't lose it this year. How in the world can that not be considered dominance by the US?
What you don't seem to be understanding is that many teams are comprised of professionals. In fact, I believe most teams in the Olympic tournament consist ONLY of professionals. It's not an uneven playing field, in the "pro vs. amateur" way of thinking.
Just look up the roster's of each team on Wikipedia. What you'll find is that most teams in the tournament are made up entirely of professionals.
Not at all, nor am I saying exclude the Americans from participating in a sport because they are good at it. I'm saying that Basketball, specifically Basketball and pretty much only Basketball has not been competitive in the Olympics since it was added almost 80 years ago. As such, in my opinion, it should be considered as a sport to drop from the Olympics at the next IOC meeting for that exact reason, in much the same way as Baseball/Softball already has been, by your own admission.
Even if it is experiencing a massive upswing it's still going to be sixth or seventh on the list of international sports after Cricket, Rugby, Golf, Tennis, Football/Soccer and any other sport that has international competitions aside from the Olympics. In 2016 Rugby and Golf will be added to the Olympiad and I don't think they should be either, nor do I think that Football or Tennis should be a part of the games, they already have their following worldwide - they do not need the Olympics. If anything the Olympics needs them.There has been a massive worldwide shift in the interest of basketball over the last 20 years. You clearly don't follow basketball at all.
Of course, given the fact your location says UK, given how bad the UK team has been, I don't blame you for wanting to get rid of basketball.
But if you DID follow basketball, you'd know it's experienced a MASSIVE upswing in interest across the world. In fact, I'd say it may very well be the fastest growing sport worldwide right now. Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's the most popular (obviously), but I think it's the fastest growing sport in the world.
I suggest you do a little research. You would find there has been a global shift in interest in basketball in the last 20 years. For example, back in 1992 when NBA players were first allowed to play, nobody knew ANYONE's name who wasn't on Team USA, including Team USA. Today, Argentina has 4 NBA players on their team. Spain has have 5 NBA players, and I think Rudy Fernandez has played in the NBA. France has 6 NBA players.
The difference between Team USA and those countries is still depth (and LeBron James and Kevin Durant), but to insinuate Team USA dominates in the same manner they dominated 20 years ago is simply false. And as time goes on, it will become more and more competitive.
By the way, with America's win in the women's soccer/football, they have now won all but one gold medal in the Olympics (the other was a silver). Should we eliminate soccer from the Olympics, since America has been so dominant?
Also yes, we suck at basketball. At school I was the only one that understood the rules about travelling and was the only one who could come even remotely close to scoring a freethrow.
Finally I think you nailed the issue with basketball on its head. We have a basketball league in the UK, I could probably count the number of London Towers fans with my fingers and toes. It's just not that popular and people who like basketball follow the NBA. It's the only league that anyone really cares about. Is that changing? Yes, slowly, but the good players, the best players still go to the NBA. It is so big and so massive that it overshadows everything else. Look at football, the premier league is the biggest league worldwide, in terms of fan support, but it does not have the best teams necessarily, the biggest teams in Europe come from all over. Bayern Munich, Internazionale, Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Juventus, Manchester United. No one league is bigger than the others in terms of player quality. The biggest problem with basketball on a global stage is the NBA, it took too long for basketball to catch on elsewhere and although basketball is growing, the only league growing to match is, was, and always will be the only one that really matters.
Anyway, we've both made our points and it's clear we're not going to agree. We're also getting closer and closer to arguing in circles. This was fun Sly, we shall have to do this again sometime.
FunKay the Inevitable
People Like Me, We Don't Play
So Piers Morgan remains one of the biggest ***** in the history of our planet due to his olympic antics.
But it IS competitive. The US only beat Lithuania by 5, 99-94.
I don't remember saying anything about baseball/softball.
I'm not so certain your list is accurate. I'll grant you football/soccer, but after that, popularity can be evaluated in so many ways it's hard to say specifically which is most popular. But regardless, the popularity of basketball is growing internationally, and at a pretty good clip. If we're tossing out sports based on popularity, it's pretty clear basketball is safe.
And my guess is that is causing you to be biased.
I'm not sure if I understand the problem. So because the best players in the world play in the NBA, basketball should be removed from the Olympics?
ÐаÑбоÑа
doesn't know REAL wrestling...
Dai Greene, why were you, a 400m hurdler reputed for your technique rather than your ground speed and in poor form, picked for the 4x400 relay?
You were going backwards that entire third leg and cost your team a medal.
You were going backwards that entire third leg and cost your team a medal.
Bradley Wiggins completely pwnd him on Twitter. It was hilarious.
Richard Blonoff
Make America Rassle Again
So I was watching the women's field hockey bronze medal game, and I totally didn't understand any of the rules
