So much for that CM Punk will draw ratings thing...

[ABMorales787]

What the fuck are you talking about? Who the fuck gives a damn about Melina? Who gave a fuck about DH Smith, and the other releases?

I'll be honest. I'd give a fuck to Melina.


Wait. Wrong subject.

 

[Slyfox696]

Alright. Humor me: If you want to see a dramatic ratings surge, what would you do at this point?

Several things which I don't really feel like detailing at the moment. But to give a short answer (and a reasonable one, as cutting Smackdown would be a great ratings boost, but financially unreasonable), I would quit the concept of "one segment, one angle", I would merge the rosters, with the bigger names on Raw, and the developing talent on Smackdown, I would eliminate women's wrestling, I would tell my wrestlers to quit talking like they are robots, and I would put more focus on realism in the product, not by mentioning things only a select few would know about, but add things like champions making more money, managers working for clients to get the championship opportunities and better contracts, etc.

Would it work? No clue. But I'm not seeing any indication this is working, either.

 

[rollingrock]

The fact that you're too stupid to see the difference is the difference.

When was the last time you saw Santa? Never? Right; Not stupid to see things that don't exist.

Back on-topic, please.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

It doesn't seem like it's panning out that way they hoped or anything, but it's been a fun ass program wile it lasted.

Exactly. Above all else, this matters most to me. Punk's as popular as he has ever been, his t-shirt is selling like crazy... I don't see the problem here.

 

[klunderbunker]

When the whole show turns into Vince McMahon and Triple H's powerplays against one another and who they'll fire and overt talk of ratings and buyrates, then it's a problem. But a little bone here and there for smarks to hear something they already know and possibly bilk that crowd out of some greenbacks isn't going to hurt anybody in my book. I'm of the view that the casuals and the smarks and both have their cake at the same table. But yeah, this argument is always lively. So why not do it again?

That makes sense but fans are going to get tired of these 20 minute chats about what it means to be real and firing people that aren't cared about and ice cream bars. Fans in the arena may cheer for it because they're trained to do it, but the ratings haven't gone up and it seems the more Punk is featured, the more they go down. I get that they're trying something different and that's good, but the shooting stuff has been done before and has failed almost every time.

 

[Coco]

Several things which I don't really feel like detailing at the moment. But to give a short answer (and a reasonable one, as cutting Smackdown would be a great ratings boost, but financially unreasonable), I would quit the concept of "one segment, one angle", I would merge the rosters, with the bigger names on Raw, and the developing talent on Smackdown, I would eliminate women's wrestling, I would tell my wrestlers to quit talking like they are robots, and I would put more focus on realism in the product, not by mentioning things only a select few would know about, but add things like champions making more money, managers working for clients to get the championship opportunities and better contracts, etc.

Would it work? No clue. But I'm not seeing any indication this is working, either.

I certainly dig the parts about women's wrestling, robot promos, and realism. Why? Because that's turning directly into a criticism everyone knows is there but those in power have felt the need to avoid for so long.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I would give my left testicle to get rid of women's wrestling. No joke.

 

[ABMorales787]

When was the last time you saw Santa? Never? Right; Not stupid to see things that don't exist.

Back on-topic, please.

Mind = blown.

 

[JGlass]

When was the last time you saw Santa? Never? Right; Not stupid to see things that don't exist.

Back on-topic, please.

Oh man, you showed him! Coco might be in over his head this time.

As a member of the IWC, I find this massively entertaining, but the casual viewer is shrugging their shoulders in confusion. What the fuck is work rate? Why is The Rock making a video about John Cena? Who the hell is Chris Masters? They don't know, and therefore they probably don't care.

As for the what will boost ratings question... I don't know, and neither do you, and neither does the WWE. This was something they tried, and it's proving to be ineffective. After this angle finishes up I suspect CM Punk remains a major player, but not as big as he is now. I suspect the next move for the WWE is, as Sly said, to make the product feel more real. A few weeks ago Cole mentioned that the wrestlers fight for a purse, and with the huge title feuds (ones that are really well built and pushed) we'll see an emphasis on being a champion as well.

 

[Coco]

That makes sense but fans are going to get tired of these 20 minute chats about what it means to be real and firing people that aren't cared about and ice cream bars.

If this creative direction hasn't evolved past these early promos in six months time, the angle deserves to fail. But this is assuming the people booking this lack imagination. Not unfair given their track records, but I can see scenarios where this works.

Fans in the arena may cheer for it because they're trained to do it, but the ratings haven't gone up and it seems the more Punk is featured, the more they go down.

Still not enough to scare me. Also, let's not forget that this dip comes on the heels of last week's dull pop-off ending, the lowest point creatively for this angle to date. I don't see the point in handing out blame for minute drops at this stage in the game, but that's just me.

I get that they're trying something different and that's good, but the shooting stuff has been done before and has failed almost every time.

Doesn't mean there isn't a winning recipe out there somewhere.

 

[ABMorales787]

Oh man, you showed him! Coco might be in over his head this time.

As a member of the IWC, I find this massively entertaining, but the casual viewer is shrugging their shoulders in confusion. What the fuck is work rate? Why is The Rock making a video about John Cena? Who the hell is Chris Masters? They don't know, and therefore they probably don't care.

As for the what will boost ratings question... I don't know, and neither do you, and neither does the WWE. This was something they tried, and it's proving to be ineffective. After this angle finishes up I suspect CM Punk remains a major player, but not as big as he is now. I suspect the next move for the WWE is, as Sly said, to make the product feel more real. A few weeks ago Cole mentioned that the wrestlers fight for a purse, and with the huge title feuds (ones that are really well built and pushed) we'll see an emphasis on being a champion as well.

Chris Masters? Who the hell is Colt Cabana?

 

[Coco]

When was the last time you saw Santa? Never? Right; Not stupid to see things that don't exist.

The fact that you think this makes sense and is relevant is another difference.

Point illustrated. Thanks for saving me the time and effort.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I think the emphasis on being the one of the top champs is already there. I'd rather see some of that focus go into the mid card titles. I sen a little bit on Smackdown with Rhodes actually talking about the IC Title. What a novel idea.

 

[rollingrock]

I actually enjoy the part about getting rid of robot promos... But that, IMO, is largely b/c you have people backstage writing things for most of the talents to say. As future HOFer Mick Foley wrote (paraphrasing here), "The best characters were the wrestlers real selves w/the volume turned way up." Meanwhile, you give Punk & Cena some mic freedom, & they do great work.

However, I'm not sure putting the big talents on one show & the developers on the other is such a hot idea. People like "Tough Enough" (at least I do) b/c it's people from other walks of life trying-out to become the wrestlers we see every week. But a show of people who are good enough to be wrestlers, but not get the big pushes? I'm not sure TNA doesn't already give us that to a point. Personally, I say better to try them out on a "trial by fire" in front of a big crowd.

 

[JGlass]

Chris Masters? Who the hell is Colt Cabana?

I think it's a resort town in the Caribbean.

 

[Slyfox696]

You've been a member of a group that includes at lest thousands of people. You have a great grasp on how exactly one of them thinks. Sure, others may think that same way, but how many do or don't? And what way(s) to the others think? Neither of us know. (Outside of me, about me.)

It's like you're posting in an alternate reality.

Read what I said, then get back to me.

Because buying one T-shirt & following them on Twitter doesn't pay their yearly "downside guarantee".

What the fuck are you talking about?

If fans cared about these people, they wouldn't be released. The fact they are released proves people don't care about them (at least in the case of these workers).

I'd argue, but you're the expert.

The first intelligent thing you've said. I most certainly am an expert on spotting stupidity. And you're demonstrating plenty of it.

Kozlov was built as a heel... Except when he was tag-team partners with the Italian joke.

Which doesn't changed how Kozlov was built. Are you really this stupid?

Masters had a huge bit for weeks, except after it became a "gag" (your word, not mine), & he all but disappeared from TV.

Yes, because he got busted for steroids. They fired him, brought him back, and found out nobody gave a damn. So they fired him again.

Melina was a Champion... Until she got pushed into tag teams & battle royals, to the point another former female Champ asked for her release the same week. Lastly, having Bret in your corner (& your family) means nothing if you're tossed off-camera altogether or stuck in a Tag Division that means nothing.

Seriously, you cannot be this stupid.

John Cena was a fucking white rapper in a primarily white audience. Chris Jericho got over by throwing temper tantrums and having a fat middle-aged guy follow him around. If you're good, you'll get fans. These guys weren't good.

There you go again, speaking about what/who other fans did/didn't care about. Next, why don't you tell me who will win gold medals in the 22nd-Century Olympic Games? You have as much chance at accuracy.

There you go again, being a dumbass. I've seen people post about these things for years, I have a pretty good understanding of it.

I only wish you could catch-up with Melina after Summerslam is over on Sunday, or Raw on Monday. If not for the fact she was home, she'll forget she was fired; On TV or not, she was given as much time to wrestle.

If you're not making the WWE money, why should they give you a spot on their precious TV time?

Seriously, learn a little something about the wrestling business before you make your next reply to me.

Good guys are perceived as holier than thou for having morals. Symbols of the status quo are villainous. Countless other options. You're a smart guy. Figure it out.

And if bad guys are cheered for what should make them a bad guy, you don't have any bad guys any more.

You're a smart guy, figure it out.

You don't expose the show behind the curtain. You turn directly into the perception that's out there and build a show on that foundation.

It doesn't change the fact you're exposing the show behind the curtain.

Cultivating a culture where bookers turn into perception rather than shy away or pretend to be above it is about more than shock. It isn't all about wowing people in my book. It's about a deeper problem.

No, it most certainly is about shock. Because it's not maintainable. Good vs. Evil will always draw. It always has, and always will. Battles about respect will always draw. It always has, and always will. Having conversations about which Internet favorite got fired, and CM Punk's real name being Phil does nothing for the show, except try and shock people into watching it, for the fact the WWE is now talking about things they wouldn't talk about before. Of course, when it becomes standard fare to talk about behind the scenes news, how are you going to shock fans into watching?

 

[rollingrock]

The fact that you think this makes sense and is relevant is another difference.

Point illustrated. Thanks for saving me the time and effort.

We all know you don't make an effort at anything; Better to attack others than prove your own work to be of any quality.

 

[hatehabsforever]

It seems to me that ratings have stagnated (in both companies for that matter) and that regardless of the storyline in question, they are going to remain basically the same. There are a bunch of reasons why this could be explained, not really necessary to get into this at this time. I think the Punk storyline has been really good, but realistically I don't think anyone expected it to draw tremendously better ratings. The WWE fans who are tuning in regularly anyway are really enjoying this angle (with possibly the exception of one of our admins), but it is not drawing in newer, casual fans, which I'm sure the WWE brass hoped it would but realistically, I'm not surprised that it didn't. At this point, I think WWE could do anything or bring in anyone, and they are going to have a hard time breaking the 3.5 barrier.

This is not unique to WWE. TNA is mired in the 1.0-1.3 range. If they bring in a new superstar or have a good storyline (??), the fans making up the low 1.0's are happier, but they are not enticing new fans in to increase their ratings.

I wouldn't be too quick to label the Punk/Cena angle a failure, and I wouldn't be too quick to criticize Punk for it all. Pro wrestling is in a ratings lull, and Punk simply isn't enough to break them out of it

 

[Coco]

As future HOFer Mick Foley wrote (paraphrasing here), "The best characters were the wrestlers real selves w/the volume turned way up."

That won't work with everybody. Some guys like Michael McGillicutty would just be really loud robots.

 

[Coco]

We all know you don't make an effort at anything; Better to attack others than prove your own work to be of any quality.

Alarm bells are sounding. Whose alt are you?

 

[klunderbunker]

If this creative direction hasn't evolved past these early promos in six months time, the angle deserves to fail. But this is assuming the people booking this lack imagination. Not unfair given their track records, but I can see scenarios where this works.


Still not enough to scare me. Also, let's not forget that this dip comes on the heels of last week's dull pop-off ending, the lowest point creatively for this angle to date. I don't see the point in handing out blame for minute drops at this stage in the game, but that's just me.


Doesn't mean there isn't a winning recipe out there somewhere.

If it goes 6 months I shudder to think of what the numbers might look like. Most people just don't seem to care about it in this form and I doubt they'll be topping MITB. The matches will be good because both can bring it for the big matches, but getting to the matches isn't going to inspire people to watch all that often. It's the way wrestling works anymore. Week to week TV isn't going to draw much unless there's something really different going on.

 

[ABMorales787]

We all know you don't make an effort at anything; Better to attack others than prove your own work to be of any quality.

Making you look smaller isn't putting up effort? There goes the survival of the fittest belief.

 

[JGlass]

We all know you don't make an effort at anything; Better to attack others than prove your own work to be of any quality.

You might want to adopt Coco's philosophy, as your attempt to prove your own worth is failing miserably.

Also, you're clearly an alt. I demand you come clean. Too smart to be Kirey... FSWWE?

 

[Slyfox696]

I think the emphasis on being the one of the top champs is already there. I'd rather see some of that focus go into the mid card titles. I sen a little bit on Smackdown with Rhodes actually talking about the IC Title. What a novel idea.

Midcard titles are pointless now that we have two World Titles.

Why? Let's say we have two World Champions, and conservatively, two title contenders. There's four people right there who are automatically better than the Intercontinental title. Throw in guys who would never be caught downgrading themselves to midcard titles (Del Rio, Mysterio, Kane, etc.) and now you're pushing the double digits in terms of quality in the promotion.

So what's the point in having a midcard title? A title is supposed to represent something of importance...what's important about being tied for the 8th best worker in the company (tied because there are two midcard titles)?

However, I'm not sure putting the big talents on one show & the developers on the other is such a hot idea. People like "Tough Enough" (at least I do) b/c it's people from other walks of life trying-out to become the wrestlers we see every week. But a show of people who are good enough to be wrestlers, but not get the big pushes? I'm not sure TNA doesn't already give us that to a point. Personally, I say better to try them out on a "trial by fire" in front of a big crowd.

Smackdown is gradually reducing itself to Impact level ratings. What good are those bigger names doing on a taped Friday night show which airs on the Sci-Fi channel? Obviously, you put those bigger names on the Smackdown show so the house show circuit will draw better (though far behind the Raw show), but the fact is, if you eliminate the brand extension, you can still separate your house show circuit into two different brands. But at least this way, you're getting you best workers on the show which is your flagship show.

 

[rollingrock]

It's like you're posting in an alternate reality.

Read what I said, then get back to me.

Why should I bother getting back to you? If your posts can be believed, you already know what I think about everything.

What the fuck are you talking about?

If fans cared about these people, they wouldn't be released. The fact they are released proves people don't care about them (at least in the case of these workers).

It proves the people in WWE don't care about them... The fans in the IWC, however, are a different story.

The first intelligent thing you've said. I most certainly am an expert on spotting stupidity. And you're demonstrating plenty of it.

My mistake; You are an expert in showing it, but not seeing it.

Which doesn't changed how Kozlov was built. Are you really this stupid?

No, but you clearly are... And it clearly does.

Yes, because he got busted for steroids. They fired him, brought him back, and found out nobody gave a damn. So they fired him again.

When they should've just fired him while he was suspended... Nobody would notice if his 90-day break became permanent.

Seriously, you cannot be this stupid.

There was a time I thought the same of you.

John Cena was a fucking white rapper in a primarily white audience. Chris Jericho got over by throwing temper tantrums and having a fat middle-aged guy follow him around. If you're good, you'll get fans. These guys weren't good.

90% of that was mic time, which is something I don't recall Smith ever getting. Kozlov did, but spoke little if any. That has nothing to do with their wrestling ability.

There you go again, being a dumbass. I've seen people post about these things for years, I have a pretty good understanding of it.

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

If you're not making the WWE money, why should they give you a spot on their precious TV time?

If you're not on TV, how am I gonna know if I should like you or not?

Seriously, learn a little something about the wrestling business before you make your next reply to me.

I have, & you have clearly also learned a little bit. VERY little.