Shawn Michaels- Overrated

[peter_midnight]

Why do so many people say that Shawn Michaels is the GOAT? Exactly what did he do that was so great?

- He was in a good tag team, but we've all seen tag teams that were better (the Road Warriors, Steiners, Bulldogs, Arn & Tully, Midnight Express).

- He didn't draw as a champion.

- He oversells almost to the point of being cartoony, much like Scott Hall & Ric Flair.

- In a business where trust is key, he cannot be trusted (see Bret Hart & Hulk Hogan).

- He doesn't really job.

- There are much better high flyers out there.

- There are much better promo guys out there...IF you know what I mean (his dumbest phrase ever).

So exactly why is this guy ever considered the GOAT by anyone? DX? He was in the group before they really took off. They didn't catch steam until the NAO joined.

I don't think he was a bad wrestler, but why he is so high on people's lists is beyond me. I just don't get it. He never excelled in any one area. Flair jobbed, drew money, and was a great promo guy. I say that even though I don't think Flair was that great either.

 

[MartialHorror]

He's just all around entertaining. I remember when Triple H had all the past champions out late 2013 and Michaels managed to crack me up with just his facial expressions and body language. I paid more attention to him based on his reactions alone. He was a really good, athletic wrestler who could bring shockingly good matches out of weak performers (ie, Nash). Honestly, I can't think of any great promos from him...but I can think of plenty of great sketches.

Would I say he's the greatest? No, but I would say he is great.

Edit: As for doing the job, it should be noted that the only true main eventers who seemed consistently okay with putting people over at the time were Ric Flair and Bret Hart and even they had their moments where they'd resist. Stone Cold, Nash, Goldberg, Hogan and Warrior had pretty infamous reputations backstage. Michaels only really stands out because he wasn't really nice about it and tended to publicize his ego more.

 

[Wrestling Mind 300]

GOAT: Great Over American Talent (Random definition) As stated above, he is great but not the greatest and the Mr Wrestlemania thing is debatable which would lead me to believe that he is overrating himself.

I really liked Shawn Michaels from the ladder match against Razor Ramon, to fulfilling his boyhood dream winning the world title against Bret Hart.

I don't think he's overrated because he was great at what he did and was always entertaining. The set up for the sweet chin music is unique and got the crowd pump up every time. His feuds with the likes of Triple H, Chris Jericho, Undertaker were great therefore he is deserving of his spot.

 

[Navi]

HBK was and still is by his Hall of Fame induction speech of Nash, entertaining. I wouldn't consider him the greatest in the ring by any means, but he's up there with the best of them.

In this business longevity is the key, and he's been around for what seems forever. I will admit though that he was bolstered somewhat by HHH when they were in DX. And he's a great promo artist, can be hilarious when he wants.

I would also call in question the Mr. Wrestlemania moniker he's been given, or given himself, but let's face it someone had to take it, and he laid claim to it before anyone else did. HBK might not wrestle anymore, but he always seems to be there when he asked to be. I like the guy, he entertains me, and that's what this business is about, entertaining the masses.

 

[MCMG]

Shawn Michaels is the most talented performer to step into a ring. Fact. Everything about his work is incredible. It is truly effortless. His selling could be over the top but that was on occasion. I'd argue he is one of the greatest sellers of all time. His move-set was always on point and very realistic. Watching a Shawn Michaels match made sense because he never did any improbable moves.


Shawn Michaels has the most incredible list of matches ever. Razor, Bret, Taker, Foley, HHH, Angle, Jericho, Cena... I could go on. These aren't just good matches; these are classic matches.

There was a massive breakthrough for smaller guys that was lead but Bret and Shawn. The pair of them helped to change the perception of top WWE wrestlers. Even if nether were massive draws, they have left a lasting impact.

The Rockers were a great tag-team. The "sexy boy" gimmick was actually quite good and it was convincing. Go back and watch those women lose their fucking shit when he walked to the ring. DX are one of the greatest stables of all time. Upon his return, Shawn never missed a beat - this is after such a big injury. It's not as if he didn't accomplish a lot.

He wasn't a A-grade promo. He didn't draw like Hogan, Austin or Cena. He may have even been one of the biggest assholes to ever wrestle but in the ring he can't be touched. Bret comes close but Shawn is the greatest at performing inside the ring.

 

[Supreme Knowledge]

Shawn Michaels is the most talented performer to step into a ring. Fact. Everything about his work is incredible. It is truly effortless. His selling could be over the top but that was on occasion. I'd argue he is one of the greatest sellers of all time. His move-set was always on point and very realistic. Watching a Shawn Michaels match made sense because he never did any improbable moves.


Shawn Michaels has the most incredible list of matches ever. Razor, Bret, Taker, Foley, HHH, Angle, Jericho, Cena... I could go on. These aren't just good matches; these are classic matches.

There was a massive breakthrough for smaller guys that was lead but Bret and Shawn. The pair of them helped to change the perception of top WWE wrestlers. Even if nether were massive draws, they have left a lasting impact.

The Rockers were a great tag-team. The "sexy boy" gimmick was actually quite good and it was convincing. Go back and watch those women lose their fucking shit when he walked to the ring. DX are one of the greatest stables of all time. Upon his return, Shawn never missed a beat - this is after such a big injury. It's not as if he didn't accomplish a lot.

He wasn't a A-grade promo. He didn't draw like Hogan, Austin or Cena. He may have even been one of the biggest assholes to ever wrestle but in the ring he can't be touched. Bret comes close but Shawn is the greatest at performing inside the ring.

He is entertaining and helped carry WWE during the down times, but he is no where close to GOAT status in neither wrestling ability nor top drawing power. His run on top during his peek was cut short due to injuries and Austin/Rock blowing up. Bret was always the better between the 2 during their rivalry. I would definitely say he is overrated.

 

[MCMG]

He is entertaining and helped carry WWE during the down times, but he is no where close to GOAT status in neither wrestling ability nor top drawing power. His run on top during his peek was cut short due to injuries and Austin/Rock blowing up. Bret was always the better between the 2 during their rivalry. I would definitely say he is overrated.

In drawing power not a chance. I'm not arguing that. In the ring, however, I honestly don't think there is anyone better. His performances over the years have been magnificent with anyone and everyone. Like I said, no-one has a catalogue of great matches like Shawn.

 

[MoscBn]

Anyone saying that Bret was better than Shawn , should really have their nostalgia goggles removed. Shawn, in ring, has had no equal in the history of WWE, and american wrestling in general. You could put him against a ladder, like, just a ladder, tell him "entertain the crowd for 10 minutes" and he would give you a 3 stars match.

In the mic, he is just entertaining, not the best, but always fun to watch. Is he the GOAT in general? probably not, but he is, no doubt, the most entertaining wrestling in the last 50 years.

 

[Supreme Knowledge]

Anyone saying that Bret was better than Shawn , should really have their nostalgia goggles removed. Shawn, in ring, has had no equal in the history of WWE, and american wrestling in general. You could put him against a ladder, like, just a ladder, tell him "entertain the crowd for 10 minutes" and he would give you a 3 stars match.

In the mic, he is just entertaining, not the best, but always fun to watch. Is he the GOAT in general? probably not, but he is, no doubt, the most entertaining wrestling in the last 50 years.

This can't be a serious assessment, Bret Hart and Kurt Angle can wrestle circles around Shawn. Also add Chirs Benoit to that list. I like shawn, but he is not on the same level. Really it just comes down to opinion, so to each their own.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

HBK may not have been a huge draw but when it comes to overall pro wrestling ability, you'll have a hard time finding anyone better in my opinion. Whether it was on the mic, inside the ring, in the middle of some sort of skit or plain old fashioned personality, HBK, from an overall standpoint, arguably the most talented guy to come about in the last 30 years. I'm not saying he was a better technical wrestler than everyone else that's come along, a better high flyer or a better guy on the mic. However, he has enough of those abilities coupled with a natural charisma & personality, along with a great understanding of psychology and how to tell a story that it's extremely difficult to find someone better from an overall perspective.

As far as him not being trustworthy, so the hell what? Most of the top names in the business at any given time have used their influence to elevate themselves at the expense of others. If you believe that Hogan and Hart never played backstage politics, I've got some lovely ocean front property in Nevada for sale. Hogan's arguably the biggest politician in the history of pro wrestling and Hart tried to play politics with HBK back in the day, HBK was simply better at it than he was.

As far as him overselling stuff, I'd rather have someone oversell than undersell any ol' day of the week.

 

[mizowns]

Don't forget that Shawn Michaels screwed Tatanka.

And Brittish Bulldog as well, he didn't give away a win against Brittish Bulldog when her sister even attended and she had cancer...

Shawn Michaels is a true overrated asshole by the WWE machine.

Mr Wrestlemania? LOL? He's not close to what Undertaker have done.

Hogan made Wrestlemania and Undertaker is Mr Wrestlemania.

Undertaker deserves the Mr Wrestlemania title.

 

[Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff]

I think it would be hard to put HBK at top of any single category in WWE, but overall I don't think many can touch him.

As for Mr Wrestlemania, I can't pick out anyone with exception of perhaps undertaker who has had as many 4 star plus matches at the event

 

[SoulTrain4]

HBK is the second greatest professional wrestler I've ever seen, behind only "Macho Man" Randy Savage.

He can do everything and anyone who is better at one thing than him he is vastly superior in other aspects.

He's not a mic worker like Austin, Hogan or Rock but they even in their respective primes are not anywhere close to HBK in the ring.

Benoit, Angle and Bret are better in ring talents but they don't have the mic skills or charisma of HBK.

Eddie Guerrero, Curt Hennig and Ric Flair are the only guys that are on par with HBK as great mic workers AND great in ring talents.

Even making the statement that he is overrated is trolling. There is no question, even his peers consider him to be the best.

 

[The Warlord]

At first I thought this was an April fools joke...then it dawned on me that the OP is just a complete dumbfuck.

I could type out 6 paragraphs explaining why Shawn is the GOAT...and although its subjective its also shared by 95% of all of his peers in the business.

I dont feel like typing this out on my iphone so I'll just call you a dumb pile of dog shit instead.

 

[ITrippedTheShockmaster]

Whoever anyone sees as the GOAT is purely opinion on that person's part. And, in some people's minds, Shawn Michaels is the greatest. Personally, I don't think he's overrated at all, according to my own standards. While I agree with previous posters in that he's not the GOAT, I do think he definitely ranks right up there for his overall body of work.

The "Mr. Wrestlemania" moniker was to help promote him as a must-see talent on each WM card he appeared on. Just like Rob Vam Dam is "Mr. Monday Night" or whatever day of the week he was on TV, it was a promo tool. He was a part of some great WM matches and gave some outstanding performances that rank high on the top moments scale. So, I think calling him "Mr. Wrestlemania" can be argued. Personally, Undertaker is Mr. Wrestlemania to me, but Shawn did have great memorable moments on the Grandest Stage of Them All.

Is he the best technical wrestler? Lord no, and he lagged in that by miles to many other superior wrestlers listed earlier. But even so, he brought a solid mat technique to the table and worked with his opponents pretty well in the ring to tell a story. Did he oversell at times? Yes, but so did his idol, Ric Flair (who is the GOAT, IMHO). Shawn's style was great for the time he was at his peak (90s into early 2000s). That's what pro wrestling needed then.

Is he the best on the mic? No, but he plays off of others pretty well and knows when to let the better mic worker take the lead in a promo or skit. The original DX skits were pretty funny because he just let himself go with it. His later stuff wasn't so great because you could tell he was holding back, maybe because of his born-again Christian beliefs keeping him PG. I loved the "light vs. dark" storyline he had with Undertaker. The angle he had with JBL owning him was entertaining. I also loved when he SCM'd Hogan to turn heel and when he retired Flair with a SCM after saying "I'm sorry. I love you."

Shawn is a great overall entertainer in the business of professional wrestling/sports entertainment. That's what he is. From his entrances, his charisma, the characters he played, the performances he gave in the ring, he was excellent. Yes, behind the scenes, he was an absolute a-hole for a long time and did a lot of crappy things to people. He was an egomaniac, but people say the same thing about Flair and about Hulk Hogan, who many also believe is the GOAT. But, when Shawn was out there working, you watched him and waited to see what he'd do next. You pulled hard for him or you absolutely wanted to see him get his butt kicked. When they split the Rockers with the Barber Shop superkick and gave Shawn the push of a lifetime, he ran with it and helped bring WWE back into the mainstream. When he formed DX with Hunter and Chyna, that changed the game (pun intented). Even when he came back a bit longer in the tooth, he was still a hell of a worker and helped to get new guys over on the way out.

To sum it up, is Michaels THE greatest of all time? No, he's not. Is he ONE OF the greatest of all time? Perhaps, depending on your criteria. But one thing he definitely isn't is overrated.

 

[mizowns]

. But one thing he definitely isn't is overrated.

Shawn Michaels is definitly overrated.

The WWE machine tried to manipulate him as a goat when he retird. I mean WTF?

He isn't even in Mr Rushmore. He didn't draw.

Rock, Flair, Hogan, Austin, Taker, Andre, Sammartino are all bigger than him.

He should just drop this stupid "Mr Wrestlemania" gimmick, which his buddy Triple H and WWE machine gave him.

 

[Creepy Old Man]

For me, Michaels is the single most overrated performer in history. His career is built on endless hyperbole from Vince and the brass he found ways to manipulate in the 1990s, and a ton of legacy-making "firsts" given to him by management: FIRST ladder match winner, FIRST man to win the Rumble from #1, FIRST Hell in a Cell winner, FIRST Grand Slam winner, FIRST Elimination Chamber winner, FIRST wrestler to pose for Playgirl (joke).

I acknowledge that the man is a very good athlete and very capable, but I never felt like he was a wrestler. I didn't perceive him as someone trying to win a wrestling match, but rather a circus clown showing off in the ring. Also there's some serious revisionist history about his mic work. In recent years he's been listed as a top 10 mic guy, which I find laughable. He was mediocre, sometimes rising to "good" when motivated, but WWE and its fans have retrospectively romanticised the guy to ridiculous extremes.

Mic work wasn't his only flaw. He looked scrawny. He had no power game. He didn't draw. Yet he's endlessly perpetuated by WWE as the GOAT, and fans smart and casual alike eat it up, because the company dictates everyone's legacy in the end. For me, Randy Savage is what people pretend Michaels is. Savage was an "A" in every category, a guy who could go, who could talk, who could draw. But yup, WWE have given him the silent treatment for the last 20 years, so you'll rarely see him in a millennial's top 10.

 

[Supreme Knowledge]

HBK is the second greatest professional wrestler I've ever seen, behind only "Macho Man" Randy Savage.

He can do everything and anyone who is better at one thing than him he is vastly superior in other aspects.

He's not a mic worker like Austin, Hogan or Rock but they even in their respective primes are not anywhere close to HBK in the ring.

Benoit, Angle and Bret are better in ring talents but they don't have the mic skills or charisma of HBK.

Eddie Guerrero, Curt Hennig and Ric Flair are the only guys that are on par with HBK as great mic workers AND great in ring talents.

Even making the statement that he is overrated is trolling. There is no question, even his peers consider him to be the best.

Kurt Angle is better than HBK in every category imaginable in Pro Wrestling.

 

[Creepy Old Man]

Kurt Angle is better than HBK in every category imaginable in Pro Wrestling.

Wow yeah, Soultrain4 was way off in saying that Angle didn't have Michaels's mic skills or charisma. Angle is a first-rate mic guy, while Michaels was a mediocre one revised by WWE (and therefore fans) to have been a great one. And ol' HBK was so charismatic that he never drew a dime and was on top when fans left in droves for WCW. One can blame the nWo sure, but if Michaels was a legit "A" guy, the WWF wouldn't have lost as much of their audience.

 

[Supreme Knowledge]

Wow yeah, Soultrain4 was way off in saying that Angle didn't have Michaels's mic skills or charisma. Angle is a first-rate mic guy, while Michaels was a mediocre one revised by WWE (and therefore fans) to have been a great one. And ol' HBK was so charismatic that he never drew a dime and was on top when fans left in droves for WCW. One can blame the nWo sure, but if Michaels was a legit "A" guy, the WWF wouldn't have lost as much of their audience.

Agreed. I don't get it, it shouldn't be that hard to understand. HBK is not in the same league as Angle. Angle was A or A+ in every category. I think some fans just have a certain bias since WWE built him up to look a certain way.

 

[JoVilla21]

I believe he's the GOAT in regards to in-ring performance. Not necessarily the best on the mic or the best character or even the best person behind the scenes. He just knew how to put on a show.

 

[L@RISANO]

[YOUTUBE]watch?v=DKdVZn4xP4Y[/YOUTUBE]


That quote in the above video is just why Shawn Michaels is revered by many WWE fans of all ages, because what he said in that video is nothing but fact. He was entertainment personified in the ring, and his title of "Mr.WrestleMania" is perfect due to his high calibre performances regardless of win/loss on the biggest stage of all.





[YOUTUBE]watch?v=X-U_d8fSyOE[/YOUTUBE]

 

[klunderbunker]

Shawn has one line that summed up his entire career for me: "I'm going to give you a show that you're never going to forget. Why? Because I can."

Shawn may not have been the best draw or the best top star, but when it comes to number of classics and what seemed to be the inability to have a bad match, there aren't many people in his league. I'm not saying he's the best in ring performer of all time because it's really hard to compare everyone in history, but Shawn is certainly in the top tier.

Another major point for him is the comeback. Shawn was one of the best ever in his first run, took almost five years off, and then came back and had another incredible run. It's insane that one guy could have two different incredible stretches like that, but Shawn did and had a long string of classics in both. The WWE hype machine might have pushed him a bit more than is realistic, but that's WWE in almost any case. Shawn isn't overrated in an in ring sense, as he really is one of the best performers between the ropes ever.

 

[Vader]

Savage, Hogan, and Warrior were the big faces of the company during the 80s and early 90s. The various feuds they had with guys were usually cartoonish and there was never really any top heels at the time. Usually Hogan feuded with someone who was anti-America or fat so he could get a good spot body slamming them. Hogan and Warrior had very little wrestling ability and were roided up. The WWE tried to recreate Hogan with Luger but couldn't.

All that being said, when Hart won the title and then dropped the belt to Michaels those two guys were the biggest names in the company. These two were the first guys that could do a little bit of everything in the ring, and entertain on the microphone that the WWE had truly invested in.

Your earlier point that Michaels wasn't a big draw is valid. He wasn't the ambassador for the sport that Hogan was and didn't really make a name for the company outside of the ring. However, I think the same thing can be said for Bret. In fact, Bret has gone out of his way to remind everyone how big of a draw he was internationally.

When Diesel, Taker, Michaels, and Hart were the big draws of the company I would wager ratings were fairly low compared most eras. But the WWE midcard was absolutely awful from like 93-97.

Michaels was definitely shady for a period of time from everything from refusing to lose the title, to getting beat up by Marines, winning the Euro belt for no reason, to the Screwjob. While he's clearly a regenerated man, that can't erase his unreliability.

I think Michaels is probably the most well rounded guy to step foot in the ring in terms of his talents in and out of the ring.

Honestly, I think I would be more interested in who the OP thinks is the greatest and then compare them against Michaels.

 

[BattleCat]

Shawn Michaels is the most talented performer to step into a ring. Fact.

Not sure what you wrote after this because stating your opinion as fact shows me that whatever else you have to say can't be relevant.

I don't get Michaels' Mr. WrestleMania moniker. Savage was more Mr. WrestleMania, in my opinion. HBK had some big Mania moments but had far more forgettable ones.

He was very good. He would improve any mid-card anywhere, but he wasn't a main eventer. He technically was, but out of necessity.

Hall of Fame? Yes. Mount Rushmore? No.