Scholarship for sexual assault participant?

[Mighty NorCal]

Ok so basically, a major university is going to admit this kid to play sports, on scholarship. He maintained a 3.8 GPA in high school, and had no discipline issues.

Unfortunately, when he was 13, he was coerced by a 17 year old to aid him in a sexual assault, in which he duct taped and beat a 14 year old girl, and the 17 year old then proceeded to rape the girl.

He was aquitted on the ground of him being THIRT FUCKING TEEN and the 17 year old was tried as an adult, and sent to jail for 10 years. The kid is now 19, and as I said, has held up the standards that he has.

The university is using his very young age (he was actually FRESHLY 13, so we are damn near talking a 12 year old here) and showing a written letter FROM THE VICTIM citing that she forgives him, and that the 17 year old was all but forcing him in the situation.

Personally, I have no issuse with him going to school, and moving past this, given the cirumstances. If he has earned this oppurtunity, then the school should allow it to him, especially if the victim says that they absolutely should. None of us was THERE when the incident occured, so how can anyone pass judgement on it, and say he shouldnt be able to get a college degree and play in sports, which he earned. Anyone who has been through these ages, knows that your practically a totally different person in the 6 years between 13 and 19.

Thoughts folks.

 

[NSL]

I don't see a problem with the kid being given the scholarship. We've all done stupid shit as teenagers (even yourself NorCal), although none of it (I hope) as severe as this. But, at 12, or 13, years old, you can be very impressionable. If the 17 year old is able to think up the assault on his own, I can only imagine what he said, or did, to get this kid involved.

Is what he did right, or condonable? No. Not by any means. But, there are enough mitigating circumstances, to show that he wasn't a willing participant, and that he is a "good" person, that has grown past this, and doesn't look to be a threat to repeat this in the future. Considering he'll be on a college campus, on scholarship, I'm fairly sure that there will be eyes on him at all times, because he is currently an investment, and they don't want to be made to look like fools.

If the girl forgives him, and sees that this wasn't his idea, then I don't see how anyone could be against him creating a better life for himself.

 

[klunderbunker]

I think that since, as you said, none of us were there, we can't really know what part the 13 year old played in it. Did he know what the outcome was going to be? Did he actually see it happen? For all we know he thought it wasn't going to go that far and then there was nothing he could do about it once he knew what was going to happen. Maybe that's the case, maybe it's not, but I agree that when he was only an accomplice and has been forgiven by the victim, he should be allowed to go to college on a scholarship etc. People make mistakes in their pasts and save for only very serious offenses, should be allowed to move past them. Apparently something in him has changed as he's met the requirements for the scholarship and the spot on whatever team he's attempting to be on. If he's qualified and the other stuff is behind him, why not?

 

[HBK-aholic]

Scholarship? He should be shot through the head. Helping someone commit sexual assault is just as bad as doing it yourself. And yes, at 13 he does know what he's doing is wrong. And I don't care if I wasn't there, he still did it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Wow, you may as well be the most predictable poster on this forum.

Really Becca, you should shoot a child through the head for being pressured into duct taping and beating someone else, by a much larger, older individual? He didnt DO the raping, fuck if we know if he even knew that was the siutation. No were was it said that he did or planned it, he was merely involved in the entire incident.

Thank fuck people like you dont run the justice systems, or we would be murdering children.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I see nothing wrong with being predictable, it basically means I'll stand up for what I think is right and not waiver.

But it's okay for those children to go out and help with things like this, isn't it? Oh Gosh we can't kill criminals, let's treat them like royalty instead. Because that's what happens - the ones in prison get more than half of the people living in the country!

The fact that he was 'involved' doesn't mean anything to you?? He helped the guy! And at 13, I'm pretty damn sure he knows right from wrong.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

It could also be called being extremely close minded, stubborn, judgmental and unwilling to step outside the box. jus sayin.

You act like this motherfucker showed up with a fucking riddler mask on. He was made to participate by someone far older, larger, and stronger. Yes, people know right and wrong, but peer pressure is a motherfucker, especially for someone that has JUST turned 13. I mean its fairly obvious the deal here, in the 17 year old trying to get the 13 year old to take the fall for him. Why the hell else would he use him? Try to not rush to judge others harshly, and take a few damn moments to think logically.

Yes, he was involved, but under the direction and influence of another, obviously. So when something like this happens, someone should be cast out of being a productive citizen for the rest of their lives? thats absolutely ridiculous.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

It's a coin flip in a ways. He didn't commit the rape, but he helped in assisting with it. The major point of view I'm looking at here, is two things.

First, he was a Boy. Not a Teen, not a Man, a Boy. He was easily manipulated by an older Teen, who was turning toward Adulthood. So that needs to be understood. We, as children and young Boys/Girls turning to teen-hood have done stupid things. Maybe not this bad, but stupid I'm sure. There is also a reason they don't tri anyone under the age of 16 on most cases, because they aren't yet fully capable of knowing the implications of what they're doing.

Albeit, any 12 or 13 yr old who doesn't understand what rape does.. does need hit in the fucking head. Especially if he goes on to get a 3.8 GPA average. That means he's very bright, which is scary in so many ways to understand that he could've not just KNEW what he was doing but accepted it and played off being "too young to know better" because he may of knew it'd work.

Now then, the Second thing I'd take a look at, is how remorseful he is. The victim has clearly and obviously forgiven him for this act of sin. For the victim to forgive you, is a great deal that doesn't happen too often. This, to me, should be seen in light to moving beyond the past deeds done, and trying to look to a brighter future. Not holding a dark cloud over his head, anymore than the memory of the deed likely does anyways.

He went through High School, changed his life from that moment and grew as a better person in the long run there-on. Because of that, I think this is a case in point of knowing some people can be reformed and change from the sins of the past.

Is what he did right? No. I doubt anyone would argue that. However, he may or may not have been forced into helping - that much, we don't know and can't prove. And if your life is threatened, I can guarantee you might do a lot of things you aren't proud or happy of, just because you're scared for your own safety.

Trust me, victims aren't the only ones who remember the scarring from past horrors. Those who commit the act(s) also hold memories of the situations. The ones who aren't remorseful don't seek out acceptance and forgiveness. And I doubt the victim would've given it, had this kid not went to her in an apologetic way.

Give him his scholarship, let him continue to get an education. If you don't allow him to continue his life, and evolve and move forward from a bad ordeal from the past.. you're condemning him to believe he'll never out-live it, and possibly force him into a worse situation of believing that nothing is worth trying for, any longer and thus pushing him into a life of more sin and law breaking issues.

 

[HBK-aholic]

People who say they're open-minded about everything are liars. I'm close-minded on a few serious subjects, I see no reason why I shouldn't be. And yeah, I jusge those who help with sexual assault. The whole "We weren't there" thing is pointless - we weren't there when whoeevr it was decided to blow up the Twin towers, so let's not judge them, eh?

I don't see anything fairly obvious about this at all. He helped someone commit one of the worst acts you can because of peer pressure??? Listen to how stupid that sounds.

Productive citizen? Eugh. From the grades you pointed out at the beginning he obviously isn't stupid, therefore should have known how wrong this was.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Right, becuase these two situations are OH so relatable. Please. That ridiculous.

It doesnt sound that stupid at all given the circumstances, and the age of the kid involved. You dont even know thet he KNEW what was going to happen, other than what he actually did. Remember, he did nothing in the actual rape., merely the preceeding duct taping and ass whuppin. It may have been the 17 year old who escalated the situation beyond that. Pointing to his HIGH SCHOOL grades (ages 15 - 19) and his maturity level when he was barely 13, is silly as well. Completely different periods in ones life.

Being book smart, and able to put up good grades, and being street smart about various criminal situations are entirely different things. People to assume otherwise, are being seriously naive

 

[NSL]

People who say they're open-minded about everything are liars. I'm close-minded on a few serious subjects, I see no reason why I shouldn't be.

This sentence right here, reminded me, you're still only 17 yourself. While you may not think it, you're still at the age where you make mistakes, and have yet to learn from most of them. I just turned 25, and I'm hardly understanding some of the mistakes I have made. This kid was barely a teenager, and was forced into doing this.

As Will has said, he's living with the guilt of this, just as much as she is living with the fact that it happened to her. I don't think what he did was right, but I do believe that if given the chance, he would not do it again. He's shown remorse, and has tried to move on from it.

You want this kid shot in the head, when for all we know, he's the one to cure AIDS. Not every situation is black and white, and there are far more grey areas than most people realize.

 

[HBK-aholic]

None of us was THERE when the incident occured, so how can anyone pass judgement on it,

Is what you said. Therefore, that means we can't pass judgement on the above situation as well. We weren't there, so let the people involved have a great life in education. That they're not even paying for!

Ah, high school here is 11-16, hence the confusion.

I don't think it makes too much of a difference though. Most 13 year olds are a lot maturer then adults like to think. In England, 10 is the age you're to be held responsible for your crimes. This kid was 3 years older than that. Even if he didn't know what was going to happen, he still tied her up, allowed it to happen, then beat her!

 

[HBK-aholic]

This sentence right here, reminded me, you're still only 17 yourself. While you may not think it, you're still at the age where you make mistakes, and have yet to learn from most of them. I just turned 25, and I'm hardly understanding some of the mistakes I have made. This kid was barely a teenager, and was forced into doing this.

Forced into beating her? For peer pressure? Give me a break, it is the stupidest reason in the world.

As Will has said, he's living with the guilt of this, just as much as she is living with the fact that it happened to her. I don't think what he did was right, but I do believe that if given the chance, he would not do it again. He's shown remorse, and has tried to move on from it.

I hope he lives with the guilt for the rest of his life! I'm sure she'll live with what happened, why shouldn't he? Instead, we're treating him like the victim in this and letting him do whatever he likes. It's definately people like you 2 who run the 'justice' system we have.

You want this kid shot in the head, when for all we know, he's the one to cure AIDS. Not every situation is black and white, and there are far more grey areas than most people realize.

It's still pretty straightforward. This is one of those things that is actually a lot simpler than people like to make out.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

People who say they're open-minded about everything are liars.

Uhm, or not? Because I'm pretty sure I'm open-minded to listening to everything once.. then forming and deciding based on my own decision from that point on. At least I'm giving all things an equal chance.

This is what NorCal was referring to, as close-minded. Not every situation involving the same topic is the same thing. Each situation has individual issues within it, that NEED to be understood. You see "sexual assault" and go all Hitler on us in saying "Kill them all". When what you should've done, if you had any true sense at all, is think logically on the case at hand.. not just the words in big bold letters.

Becca, I get why you're the way you are. I know of the situations, but it doesn't mean you can't stop for a moment and put proper thought on the situation instead of instantly jumping to conclusion of "kill him".

I'm close-minded on a few serious subjects, I see no reason why I shouldn't be. And yeah, I jusge those who help with sexual assault.

So, because you're for abortion - and as result, all for killing an innocent life, we should judge you accordingly for being an immature, selfish and un-responsible individual? Okay then.

Doesn't matter WHY you believe abortion should be legal, it's the fact you're okay with taking an unborn life yourself. That makes you a murderer just the same.

The whole "We weren't there" thing is pointless - we weren't there when whoeevr it was decided to blow up the Twin towers, so let's not judge them, eh?

Uh, slightly different. We judged the group in which was responsible for the bombings. However, like I feel our Country does.. we took it one step further (and used YOUR logic, mind you) and decided to blame an entire culture of people based on their skin color.

Yet at the same time, raping one girl (who didn't die, mind you) is slightly.. no.. MAJORLY different than fucking flying a plane (nah, two) into the side of two towers and killing hundreds of Mother's, Father's, Parent's, Grandparents, Children and everyone, anyone in the building practically.

This rape victim didn't die, and has even forgiven the guy in question w/ this thread. The 9/11 bombings killed several hundreds of people. So yeah, slightly fucking different.

I don't see anything fairly obvious about this at all. He helped someone commit one of the worst acts you can because of peer pressure??? Listen to how stupid that sounds.

Listen to how stupid you're coming off sounding. So unwilling to even attempt listening to anything but the echo between your own ears. No offense Becca, but your judgment is based on your own personal issues.. so naturally your opinion shouldn't weigh in as much - because you can't think clearly on the subject. You're biased, and it's for that reason that you'd never be on a jury regarding a case such as this.

Productive citizen? Eugh. From the grades you pointed out at the beginning he obviously isn't stupid, therefore should have known how wrong this was.

You once shit in your diaper, too.. I'm sure you've since grown up and learned how NOT to shit yourself. Point? We grow, we learn as we do so. Perhaps, as a 12-13 yr old.. he was forced into doing what he was told..

Urmm.. maybe even to save his OWN life, in which none of us know for sure.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

er, no. the taping and beating occured first, then the rape. For all the report said, the kid wasnt even there when the rape occured. He didnt commit the crime, was merely involved in the incident, like I said. He shouldnt be withheld from becoming a productive member of soceity for something he did when he became barely a teenager.

and no, teenagers like to think 13 year olds are a lot more than mature than adults give them credit for. They arent.

 

[NSL]

Is what you said. Therefore, that means we can't pass judgement on the above situation as well. We weren't there, so let the people involved have a great life in education. That they're not even paying for!

Ah, high school here is 11-16, hence the confusion.

I don't think it makes too much of a difference though. Most 13 year olds are a lot maturer then adults like to think. In England, 10 is the age you're to be held responsible for your crimes. This kid was 3 years older than that. Even if he didn't know what was going to happen, he still tied her up, allowed it to happen, then beat her!

What the ages and laws are in England, has nothing to do with this. He was raised in our society, so he was raised under our laws, and our systems.

At 13 here, you're not allowed to do much. Heck, I don't even think there was sex education for 13 year olds 6 years ago. This kid was at an age, where he wants to be accepted, and is just starting puberty, so he's going through so many more changes, and so much in his mind, that I doubt he had any real clue waht was going to happen. The other kid was 17, and easily could've lied, and said they were just going to rough her up.

 

[NSL]

Forced into beating her? For peer pressure? Give me a break, it is the stupidest reason in the world.

Stupid, yes. But, it happens. Same with drugs, alcohol, sex, and the list goes on. Especially at the young age of 12-13. We don't know this kid's family life. What if he had no parents, and was looking for anyone that would accept him?

I hope he lives with the guilt for the rest of his life! I'm sure she'll live with what happened, why shouldn't he? Instead, we're treating him like the victim in this and letting him do whatever he likes. It's definately people like you 2 who run the 'justice' system we have.

The only thing he can do right now, is show remorse, and try to become a better person. There's no way to undo what happened.

It's still pretty straightforward. This is one of those things that is actually a lot simpler than people like to make out.

The fact you don't give it a second thought, just proves that you have a lot of growing up to do, and I don't mean that as an asshole. I mean that, because you still are only 17, and have a lot to live through before you can condemn someone to death.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Most 13 year olds are a lot maturer then adults like to think.

Uhm, WHAT?! What Adult have you ever met or known that's said this crock of shit? Becca, you're what now.. 17-18? And I still don't fully have belief that you're mature in every single manner. I'm 27, and still have immaturity in me.. so I know you can't be "perfect", mainly because no one is.. especially not a 12-13 year old.

NorCal's right.. Teens believe those closer to their age are "mature" because most of the time, when Teens don't get their way with Adults, it's the younger kids who listen and take the Teens side in saying "You're so right, the Adults were wrong, they don't understand."

Cause, you know, fuck me.. I've only lived my life for like ohh.. 10 more years than you have.. What the fuck could I possibly know more of than you, or a 13 yr old?!

This makes you look worse more than great. It makes you fall into that category of children and teens who believe everything they think, feel and believe in is always going to be right.. regardless of anything.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Uhm, or not? Because I'm pretty sure I'm open-minded to listening to everything once.. then forming and deciding based on my own decision from that point on. At least I'm giving all things an equal chance.

Seriously..so you wouldn't be closeminded if someone really hurt your wife or children? You'd wait..and listen for the reason why without really wanting to hurt this person?

This is what NorCal was referring to, as close-minded. Not every situation involving the same topic is the same thing. Each situation has individual issues within it, that NEED to be understood. You see "sexual assault" and go all Hitler on us in saying "Kill them all". When what you should've done, if you had any true sense at all, is think logically on the case at hand.. not just the words in big bold letters.

Becca, I get why you're the way you are. I know of the situations, but it doesn't mean you can't stop for a moment and put proper thought on the situation instead of instantly jumping to conclusion of "kill him".

Why shouldn't they all die? Give me one good reason why we should keep these people in our society? Paying for their living at that?

Yet at the same time, raping one girl (who didn't die, mind you) is slightly.. no.. MAJORLY different than fucking flying a plane (nah, two) into the side of two towers and killing hundreds of Mother's, Father's, Parent's, Grandparents, Children and everyone, anyone in the building practically.

And? It's still the same principle. We weren't there so we can't judge. It's not how I feel, but how NorCal does.

This rape victim didn't die, and has even forgiven the guy in question w/ this thread. The 9/11 bombings killed several hundreds of people. So yeah, slightly fucking different.

Oh lucky her, she didn't fucking die. Let's have a big celebration!

Listen to how stupid you're coming off sounding. So unwilling to even attempt listening to anything but the echo between your own ears. No offense Becca, but your judgment is based on your own personal issues.. so naturally your opinion shouldn't weigh in as much - because you can't think clearly on the subject. You're biased, and it's for that reason that you'd never be on a jury regarding a case such as this.

I'm the only person who seems to see sense. There is no physical reason why someone would do this that didn't deserve death.

Now, I realise the boy in question didn't actually do it, so he isn't in the wrong as much as the guy that did, but he still condoned it, and then beat her.

You once shit in your diaper, too.. I'm sure you've since grown up and learned how NOT to shit yourself. Point? We grow, we learn as we do so. Perhaps, as a 12-13 yr old.. he was forced into doing what he was told..

Urmm.. maybe even to save his OWN life, in which none of us know for sure.

And he clearly had to beat her. He was forced into it with the guy throwing punches for him and everything, right?

 

[HBK-aholic]

Uhm, WHAT?! What Adult have you ever met or known that's said this crock of shit? Becca, you're what now.. 17-18? And I still don't fully have belief that you're mature in every single manner. I'm 27, and still have immaturity in me.. so I know you can't be "perfect", mainly because no one is.. especially not a 12-13 year old.

Oh, I'm not saying anyone is fully mature at any rate. As you just said, you're not completely. But I'm pretty damn sure he was mature enough to know this was wrong.

NorCal's right.. Teens believe those closer to their age are "mature" because most of the time, when Teens don't get their way with Adults, it's the younger kids who listen and take the Teens side in saying "You're so right, the Adults were wrong, they don't understand."

Cause, you know, fuck me.. I've only lived my life for like ohh.. 10 more years than you have.. What the fuck could I possibly know more of than you, or a 13 yr old?!

This makes you look worse more than great. It makes you fall into that category of children and teens who believe everything they think, feel and believe in is always going to be right.. regardless of anything.

No, it just means I'm looking into it further than seeing 13 and automatically assuming he wasn't mature enough to know what he was doing.

 

[NSL]

As far as the topic:

He does not deserve death. His punishment, will be living forever, knowing what he was involved in, under any circumstances. And, the college is paying for him to go to the school, based on his grades, and athletic ability. It has nothing to do with them feeling sorry for him, and paying his way through college.

 

[NSL]

Oh, I'm not saying anyone is fully mature at any rate. As you just said, you're not completely. But I'm pretty damn sure he was mature enough to know this was wrong.

My brother is about to turn 18. He's 7 years younger than me, pretty close to the age difference between these two KIDS. I'm pretty sure, that even at his age, I could talk him into doing some pretty devious shit. Maybe not tying up, and beating a girl, but I'm sure he'd assist me in robbing a bank, beating up someone who gave me a hard time, or a few other things.

No, it just means I'm looking into it further than seeing 13 and automatically assuming he wasn't mature enough to know what he was doing.

Because this makes you the cool 17 year old? That makes you so mature.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Stupid, yes. But, it happens. Same with drugs, alcohol, sex, and the list goes on. Especially at the young age of 12-13. We don't know this kid's family life. What if he had no parents, and was looking for anyone that would accept him?

And?? Do you really think that matters? As long as he feels accepted, he can do what he likes to this girl? No second thought on how she might feel.

The only thing he can do right now, is show remorse, and try to become a better person. There's no way to undo what happened.

He should still be in prison.

The fact you don't give it a second thought, just proves that you have a lot of growing up to do, and I don't mean that as an asshole. I mean that, because you still are only 17, and have a lot to live through before you can condemn someone to death.

I think I'm A LOT 'older' than most 17 year olds. But it is a lot simpler. People automatically assume at 13 kids don't know what they're doing is wrong, just because they're older and don't remember they knew it was wrong at 13.

Um...WHAT? We'll have to debate this another time, because this isn't the place for it...Just please tell me you don't think this, solely because you don't believe in God...

What does God have to do with abortion? How is it murder, in any way? Do you think all women who have an abortion are murderers?

 

[NSL]

And?? Do you really think that matters? As long as he feels accepted, he can do what he likes to this girl? No second thought on how she might feel.

I didn't say it's right that he feels accepted. I'm saying in his mind, at 12 years old, it is right to feel accepted. And, that's where the thought process goes to shit, and he does something stupid, like duct tape a girl, and beat her up.

He should still be in prison.

Not at 12 years old. Put him in a juvenile detention center, and if he isn't rehabilitated when he turns 18, out him in jail.

I think I'm A LOT 'older' than most 17 year olds. But it is a lot simpler. People automatically assume at 13 kids don't know what they're doing is wrong, just because they're older and don't remember they knew it was wrong at 13.

Yes, but does anyone else? This is what Will and I are getting at.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I didn't say it's right that he feels accepted. I'm saying in his mind, at 12 years old, it is right to feel accepted. And, that's where the thought process goes to shit, and he does something stupid, like duct tape a girl, and beat her up.

That doesn't make him in the right, though.

Not at 12 years old. Put him in a juvenile detention center, and if he isn't rehabilitated when he turns 18, out him in jail.

How do we definte whether he's rehabilitated though? I mean, there are cases where this is decided and then they've re-offended. I'm not against this idea - he'd at least have had 5 years locked up, instead of being allowed out like he'd done nothing.

Yes, but does anyone else? This is what Will and I are getting at.

If you know any 17 year olds I'm sure you'll agree.