Scared of the "Black" Wrestler?

[Kaneanite]

The WWE just gives into stereotypes, much like all of media. Ok, so the higher-ups aren't the biggest liberals around but that doesn't make them racist.

To the guy that said the Samoan comment... the Rock is Samoan... Biggest superstar of all time arguably in case you didn't know him or something.

A black guy with no gimmick? Lashley and he had a superb time in the WWE DESPITE being absolute SHIT on the mic "Yeah Finlay.... well you're a bastard!!".... too bad he left for MMA.

Booker T was tremendously talented, and got rewarded. Lashley had a great look and got rewarded. The Rock... do I need to comment? Kofi has had his runs in the mid-card and you can't really judge anything yet because he still has a career ahead of him. If anything Morrison is MORE talented than Kofi and he hasn't gotten a push yet either. Is the WWE racist towards whites because of that? Oh and he has a ROCKSTAR gimmick, how white. Of course they aren't racist, it's just business.

Look at what they did with Austin. "Let's have this bald headed redneck go out there and drink beer." Stereotypes! That's all it is. That's the media, for you. The media created stereotypes and the media USES stereotypes.

Also please keep in mind that if these superstars thought for one second that they were being used in a racially negative manner that they'd say something about it? They agreed to the contracts.

Lastly, I don't even understand your argument. You say the 'E', since the Attitude Era, has been trying to make the black superstars seem 'not black', for example, "Brother Devon - Whose brothers were all white". But then you go on to say, "These two are extremely talented superstars and the fact they have to run around as* gangster wanna-bes yelling YO YO YO! & WHATS UP! is insulting."

SOOOOOO make up your mind? Do you want them to fit the stereotypes or not? You name off a bunch of guys with completely different and somewhat original gimmicks (a King, the fucking boogeyman, MVP) and complain about that but then you go and complain when they are fitting the stereotype and screaming WATS UP. You say you want them to be themselves, but again, it's business. They agreed to the contract, and earning 6 figures. THE MEDIA USES STEREOTYPES.

Oh and by the way, I am not homosexual but for a guy (OP) that is complaining about being stereotyped or regarded as racially inferior by the WWE... This comment was kind of surprising and ironic... "Orlando Jordan - Is he gay now on TNA? whats up wit dat!"

I was not aware black people could not be gay. This is news to me.

 

[Kaneanite]

Yokozuna's gimmick was the portrayal of a Japanese Sumo Grand Champion; which had little to do with Samoan culture. 3 minute Warning (Jamal and Rosey) later disbanded and Umaga emerged, as what? A wild savage with a taped thumb.
Sorry, you lose this debate. I've yet to see a Samoan wrestler who embodies anything other than a psuedo cannibal type.

Really you think he loses? I'd actually say you got served.

I'm Irish. Oh man, a guy who's white as snow itself and has flaming red hair is coming out to Irish music and nonstop shoving Irish stuff down our throats all while portraying a heel and cheating to win and being hated by the crowd. Why couldn't he come out as a Japanese Rapping Monk with crutches? Why does he have to come out as an Irish guy? This is stupid and insulting.


Wait, really?

 

[harrythem]

Shelton Benjamin - turned into the "Gold Standard"
He was althletic, like John Morrison, he could be relied to be in the matches which need crazy spots, like John Morrison. He had a lack of charisma to match his talent, like John Morrison. So, like John Morrison, it's not WWE's fault he wasn't able to connect to the WWE fanbase LONG before he became the gold standard.

Mark Henry - who went from "The World's Strongest Man" to "Sexual Chocolate"

Yet you somehow forget that, until he went all Shemales and hands, Sexual Chocolate was actually over. Hell, was a lot more interesting then he has been since he's gone back to being the Worlds Strongest Man.

2-Cold Scorpio - Who went as Flash Funk

Yeah they fucked up on him, although I still liked the Funkettes.

Big Daddy V - Who went from Mabel to Viscera

And sucked massively at both. Fact is he was terrible, dangerous and bland. The most memorable thing he did was being an updated version of Sexual Chocolate.

Booker T - Who went from a spineroonie to a King

You mean the King gimmick that Booker loved doing with his wife and that got him up to main event standard? Yeah, that sucks, using something that worked because it was played with tongue in cheek.

The Boogeyman - Enough said..

Everything about him sucked but, seeing as the guy was strange and actually ate worms backstage, how is that not being the real him?

Brother Devon - Whose brothers were all white

Dances With Dudley would like a word with that. Seriously, the Dudley's were never seen as real brothers, hell, they came from DUDLEYVILLE for gods sake!

Elijah Burke - Who is a pope or something (I don't watch TNA)

Well if you don't watch how can you comment on his gimmick? He's made a connection but, as is the case with most of the people on this list, he's rather limited and this gimmick (that he himself created) is about as high as he'll ever get on the card.

Ernest Miller - Who turned into a dancing cat

Because, as the serious Martial Artist that he really is, no-one cared! When he became the dancing cat who asked the fans to "call my momma" they actually cared about him. Was one of the few, strictly mid-card things, that WCW actually did well in it's dying days.

Farooq - Who went from a black supremest to a bar fighting roughneck

And fans actually cared about him. They were dead during his matches but, surely you heard the pops when the APA came out? Again, from all accounts, that's what he was like in real life (with the drinking, smoking and fighting) what could they have done differently with him that'd have helped him? WCW tried, and failed, to make him main event because, HE WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH

The Godfather - Who went from a Voodoo doctor to black supremest to hilarious pimp

You missed out when he was "The Supreme Fighting Machine" and feuded with The Undertaker. They tried taking him seriously and, sadly, the only thing he ever had going for him was the hoes. Says alot about how shit he was really.

Montel Vontavious Porter - Who ran around telling everyone he was better then them screaming BALLIN!

You mean the guy that, as a heel, was heading towards main event level? Again, he created the gimmick and they ran with it. It was a very good gimmick as we all know about flashy over-paid sports stars.

Jay Lethal - Who dressed up like Macho Man and Flair

And now he's back to playing himself. How many episodes of Impact is he on? Or PPV appearances lately? Yeah, think he was better off with his impressions as he doesn't seem to be able to do it on his own.


I can't be arsed with sorting through the last few on your list but, seriously, seeing things as the WWE being scared of letting the black wrestler be himself (especially when you've named wrestlers who were only in WCW, TNA or started their gimmick in ECW) is just...divvy.

 

[thedukeofpearls]

That's funny, cause i can name quite a few in WWE without racially offensive gimmicks as well (as has been stated before) such as Mark Henry, Ezekial Jackson, Darren Young, David Otunga, Michael Tarver... I'd keep going but TNA only has 4 black wrestlers, so they cant possibly have more black wrestlers without offensive gimmicks than the WWE.

Congratulations, Punchline. Feel proud of yourself for naming guys who aren't successful?

TNA (even during it's NWATNA times) had black wrestlers WITH TITLE REIGNS. The guys you've named are who exactly?

Tarver- Had that stupid cloth on his face most the time, and didn't hold my interest.

Darren Young- Means absolutely nothing to me being that I DON'T know this guy.

David Otunga- Former reality TV star on I Love New York. My god, I'd doubt he'd want to be reminded of that. Also, he could be a good wrestler, but he's got time to go.

Ezekial Jackson- Certainly he doesn't have a racially offensive gimmick, but he jobs most the time, and grunts around the ring like a monster. Really good pick there, kiddo.

Mark Henry- He's jobbed how long? Held a championship last about how many years ago? Sexual Chocolate, NOD and calling yourself a Silverback wouldn't be racially offensive? Ok, by all means call the guy an ape.


You're limiting this to me only defending black athletes when I've clearly stated that racially offensive gimmicks are bad for any athlete regardless his color. So, why just place the spotlight on black wrestlers?

Why defend WWE's obvious bullshit?

Yes, WWE may be entertaining for you, but the reality of it's ficticious nature would strike anyone worth their salt as a bit crude. Does that mean I dislike it?

Not at all. But, is it really not possible for WWE to remain an entertaining brand without stooping to the level of portraying gimmicks that are racially offensive?

Of course it is. The problem is, the fans are least likely to stop feeding their bullshit, which is why you have shit quality matches, an issue beyond what this thread speaks of.
But in all fairness, since this topic has now only centered around the ever so glorious black wrestler stigma, why not name me a black wrestler (besides Lashley and Booker) who has a big chance at becoming a main eventer without portraying a gimmick.
Of course, you'll answer this typically so and say "black wrestlers in WWE as of this moment aren't main event material". Hmmm...I wonder how good a wrestler really is if management didn't restrict them to put talent over.

 

[thedukeofpearls]

Really you think he loses? I'd actually say you got served.

I'm Irish. Oh man, a guy who's white as snow itself and has flaming red hair is coming out to Irish music and nonstop shoving Irish stuff down our throats all while portraying a heel and cheating to win and being hated by the crowd. Why couldn't he come out as a Japanese Rapping Monk with crutches? Why does he have to come out as an Irish guy? This is stupid and insulting.


Wait, really?

No. You're the ignorant type who's not read more than half of this entire topic to really get a feel of what I'm saying. Fuck you, my girlfriend is Irish, and I know all too well about racism towards the Irish. Even presently, they're still looked down upon by most.

Are you an American of Irish descent who says they're Irish or are you actually from Ireland, Einstein?

Because you'd have to be from Ireland to say you're Irish, which my girlfriend was actually BORN.

Before you handglide from that guy's scrotum hair and defend bullshit, make sure you've actually been present the entire argument, cause shit like that doesn't quite work with me. Would you like fries with that?

 

[ITALIAN NYC]

I dont think WWE is afraid of a black wrestler, and i dont think race has anything to do with it at all. Everyone on that beginning list just doesnt have the in ring skills and mic skills to be champion. Some of them have some good in ring skills but HORRIBLE mic skills. None really had the total package.

Now look at booker T, who had it all. Great in ring work and great mic skills. What was the end result? 5 time WCW champ and WWE champ , along with tag titles and such.

Basically the point is, if a wrestler , black or white, has all the skills and talent to be on the top of the wrestling world, they would have the chance to. Its just at the moment , theres not many black wrestlers who have it all. Doesnt really make it racist at all. As far as the gimmicks are concerned, i dont feel any other gimmick could have saved the people on that list. In reality, no matter what gimmick you have, you should be able to show ur true skills and talents. Thats what makes a great entertainer.

Shelton Benjamin was a great wrestler, loved watching him, but he was pretty bad on the mic. He still held some titles though.

R -truth right now in the wwe, hes an alright wrestler but his mic skills are subpar. Ill admit , he needs to change that wassup stuff and be taking more seriously. Botches on the mic sometimes.

Kofi botches so much in his matches .. Had a pretty good fued back with orton .. Shoulda pushed him a lil more then , but didnt have mic skills.

 

[berlinbrawler]

and of course my two current favorites..

J.T.G

R-Truth

Currently the two biggest jokes and slap to face for black wrestling fans everywhere in the world. These two are extremely talented superstars and the fact they have to run around at gangster wanna-bes yelling YO YO YO! & WHATS UP! is insulting.

You're kidding, right? Talented?! Even if you take out the annoying/stereotypical aspects of their characters and mic-work they are average at best. As for their wrestling skills, JTG is not very good at all. Truth is somewhat better, but he flies uselessly around way too much and has little to no impact with his flashy moves. Both guys are unconvincing on so many levels. These clowns have jobs they get paid for. Let them be happy with that.

 

[achromat666]

*Sigh*, this is getting stupid.

I've responded to this on this forum I believe and in other threads, but will try to sum up as best I can.....

For the better part of the decades wrestling has been on TV, the major demographic has been middle to lower class whites. we're talking the early days of TV here back in the days of Lou Thez, Bruno Sammartino, and the such. Wrestling for a very long time and to a great extent today still caters to much of this demographic.

Does this mean that other wrestlers of other races never got on TV? Perdo Morales, Bobo Brazil, Antonio Inoki, and other wrestlers are certainly examples of that not being the case. But they were far in the minority because of the demographic mentioned, which frankly dominated TV in general for the most part much of this time.

In the intervening time between then and now we've seen 2 major differences here:

-an attempt to reach more races by TV in general.

-a progressively expanding level of talent across the racial divide from many countries.

This is important because wrestling has been prominent in several other countries (Mexico and Japan being the most obvious examples) and the demographic there is of course the majority of those populations which are still Mexican and Japanese. These are places where wrestling is indeed part of the culture.

As wrestling has gotten more international attention from this country, and as minorities born in this country have made more efforts to get into the sport the business has diversified. This has been a slow change in some areas in how gimmicks play out (the numerous gimmicks mentioned that play on race) and the level of success took a long time to reach the point it has for most minorities.

But as far as opporutiny is concerned I've said it before and I'll be happy to repeat: do Rey Mysterio, Booker T, R-Truth, and Shelton Benjamin have opportunites as champions? A hell of a lot more than Rocky Johnson, Tony Atlas, JYD, Butch Reed, Ron Simmons, Bad News Brown, and Koko B Ware ever had. Now did some of those older wrestlers have runs with different belts? Sure but in the time since they became popular a younger generation has had more success. Booker T and the Rock are two of the most decorated stars the business has regardless of race, Shelton Benjamin has numerous runs in the WWE with tag and mid card titles based on his athleticism alone, MVP and most of the other younger minority talent have held lower card titles many times. Hell, R-Truth is a former TNA world champion. And that goes for hispanic wrestlers as well, with Chavo Guerrero (as well as of course Eddie, RIP) Juventud Guerrera, Rey Mysterio, and the Colons have had significanly more success in the business than their predecessors.

And I would feel remiss if I didn't mention the plight of Samoan wrestlers in the business as well, which has been touched upon by others in this thread. Even those that weren't around to see them should know who Jimmy 'superfly' Snuka is, as well as hopefully the Wild Samoans, Yokozuna and of course Rikishi. More Samoans have enjoyed titles recently than had in the past, though with not as many performing in the WWE seeing more Samoan champs will take longer. I certainly hope it does happen.


This is due to a shift in the demographic and an influx of talent from other races and a greater awareness of the wrestling phenomenon in other countries. We have more successful minority talent in American wrestling than we have had in it's entire history. And the process of seeing more black, hispanic, and perhaps one day even Japanese world champs is certainly coming.
You can't see race in wrestling without seeing american wrestling as a whole, from where it started and the attitudes about race existing outside of it to where we are now. There is a literal world of difference and something that should be celebrated rather than bitched about. Yes, I balk at the insipid Cryme time gimmick, the Boogeymen, and others obviously racial gimmicks. They've been in the business a long time and have been for most races. Sheamus and Finlay are more than guys with a Gaelic background, Little Guido is more than just an Italian american, and John Cena is more than just a white guy that loves hip hop culture. Stereotypes and wrestling have gone hand and hand for longer than most of us have been living and will be here for a long time. It's the easiest way most of the time to get a response or to get a character over.

Scared of the black wrestler? how many minority world champs can we count on both hands? but the number is rising, and will continue to do so.

This, by the by is coming from a black 42 yr old man. I know the subject of race and wrestling is bound to pop up, but can we at least try to see it objectively, hard as that may be?

 

[Malenko316]

Azane is the only person to see the reality: The WWE is not racist, badly written yes, but its the post(er) which is racist. This is sort of playing the race card and saying these guys looked stupid or didn't get a pus because they were black which racist. There will be double or triple the amount of white, or at least non blacks, who were badly booked, given horrible gimmicks or otherwise fucked over, but conveniently they're overlooked.

The list provided is also a bad place to start, as aside from Benjamin and Booker in WWE (good talent, but better as tag teamers anyway) and Lethal in TNA, the rest are midiocre or worse. Dvon can't blamed on anyway as he and Bubba were tagging before they even went to ECW, so that was there own choice. If you have pisspoor talent to deal with, when combined with awful writing, you're going to get a bad product regardless of color. And FYI, JTG and Truth are such mediocre talents, that the gimmicks are the only reasons they've not be Future endevoured, so they should be grateful.

What I find most annoying and offencive, is the idea that it's just Black wrestlers who get this 'profiling' persona. Any remotely Latino is sneaking and lying a la Los Guerreros or a lucha dore. It perhaps says something about the success of former lucha dore Dos Caras (Del Rio) that he has so much success by not being cast in that light or allowed to keep his mask. And also why Mysterio now looks so stale because he's never broken out of the mould. But the list goes on: anyone Irish is decked out in shamrocks (even in Findley's case when he came from Northern Ireland, part of the UK); any Britons are aloof and arrogant (Regal, Doug Williams, Demond Wolfe, McIntyre); anyone Russian is still Soviet and cold even through the USSR collapsed over 20yrs ago!; and anyone Samoan is a borderline cannabal - the Rock was only spared that because he was half black - perhaps the signing example of about the lack of prejudice in the face of good talent.

I would also contend the point about the majority of the target audience being white - in the 80s yes wrestling still followed this historical trend. But simple demographic changes thanks to the open door policy along the rio grande, has meant a surge in the Latino population and the reason why Mysterio has been kept around and why such a fuss has been made over Mistico. Add to this the WWE atleast is now a world wide brand, then the markets of highest influence are China, India, Mexico and UK - the first three having more wrestling fans than the rest of world put together - so this obviously means a diversification of talent. However it will take time for talent roster to catch up.

The original post was ignorant of the details of the actual subjects cited as examples and deliberately ignorant of the wider issues because it underminded the core complaint. Non of the people listed were true big company eventers (tagteam level aside) and that had nothing to with color. If black people and black wrestlers want equality of opportunity, then there has be an acceptance of being judged equally from a talent perspective - and from that point, all the examples sighted were just not good enough, regardless of gimmick.

But then pro (bl)action is not equality - it's about 'deserved' favouritism as compensation to pay off 'white guilt'. When talent is there, it gets used, and it is up the talent to maximise what creative gives them. There are far worse 'crimes' made against european, asian, latino and samoan wrestlers, but as ever, they don't matter, because one minority feels they are deserving. PV

 

[Savior with faith 101]

As a white man i feel that White males are the most hard done by in WWE because they have had far more horrible gimmicks than any other ethnicity (clearly this is nothing to do with there being more white males in the company) and that it is in spite of this horrible anti-white racism that these heroes have stepped up to the plate, fought the system and grabbed the brass ring to show that racism cant hold them down....

ok so that was clearly tongue in cheek...but lets look historically, its not just black people/african americans/mexicans/ghanian jamaicans (or wherever kofi is from this week) that have had horrendous gimmicks. Lets look at the "awesome" gimmicks that certain individuals have been given.

Kevin Thorne/Mordecai - This guy was the perennial weird character in a time when gimmicks were all but dead. He played a vampire, a weirdo and then a character who came out looking like the 2nd coming of christ but was actually a heel??? and i think the combined time that they tried to actually push all these characters was like a week.

Finlay/Sheamus - I believe that someone has already mentioned these two, but lets face it, if anyone has been stereotyped to the max its these. I mean come on, the only way they could be more irish was if they were a Tag Team of Paddy and Murphy who came out holding Guiness with some midget dressed as a leprechaun who couldn't talk, but WWE wouldn't do that....

Hornswaggle - Or would they?? yes they would, Hornswoggle, not even Irish, was a ******ed Leprechaun!!! Little people court?? i think that may well be slightly worse than the Gold Standard or World Strongest Man? But wait, this might not have been racist, because after all there was little Boogeyman...

Jesse and Festus - Common hicks from a farm, one of whom is ******ed and goes mental at the sound of a ring bell??? then said common hick turns into a rapper??? wow

Here is a link to someones 25 worst gimmicks which include among others, The Mountie, The Hollywood Blondes (a Texan and a guy from Ohio??) Seven and of course Shockmaster....

http://uk.tv.ign.com/articles/982/982463p1.html

now out of these 25 horrific gimmicks i counted 3 people who wernt white.

So people may want to just look at the ratio of good/bad gimmicks per race....oh wait...a better idea...

just look at the quality of the wrestler IN SPITE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN!!!!!

 

[kevberg]

Man, In this day and age, thats crap...

the Rock---black and somoan and 7 times WWE Champ.
Booker T---black and 1 or 2 times wwe champ, 5 time, 5time, 5 time, 5 time, 5 time wcw champ


In the case of MVP, if rumors are true about Vince being concerned about his past...thats MVP s fault , no one else's. Booker had to work long and hard to get past his mistakes and He stuck with it and it worked out.

I REALLY Dig Shelton Benjamin HE has the goods but he has to up his mic skills and presence and I'm sure he'd be Champ. hes Damn good.

R-Truth--- i just can't get past K-kwick.


Mark Henry--- he can be a great monster heel, if you give him a mic he can give a great pissed off promo sorta like the LOD, Goldberg stuff like that. but he's sorta been one dimensional.. so if you need a Monster Heel, I think Henry can do it... but I wouldn't put the strap on him long.


Maybe 10-15 years ago that argument could be made...but I don't believe it is a factor ( or a very big one ) now.

 

[yur_momma]

No. You're the ignorant type who's not read more than half of this entire topic to really get a feel of what I'm saying. Fuck you, my girlfriend is Irish, and I know all too well about racism towards the Irish. Even presently, they're still looked down upon by most.

Are you an American of Irish descent who says they're Irish or are you actually from Ireland, Einstein?

Because you'd have to be from Ireland to say you're Irish, which my girlfriend was actually BORN.

Before you handglide from that guy's scrotum hair and defend bullshit, make sure you've actually been present the entire argument, cause shit like that doesn't quite work with me. Would you like fries with that?

when did Irish become a race? you try to sound way too smart for someone who doesnt even know the definition of "race". step off your self appointed pedestal for a second and use google.

 

[Calderownz]

Shelton Benjamin - turned into the "Gold Standard"

This had little to do with him being black. It had to do with him having no direction and them needing something they could market and push. Still didn't work, but it was the attempt.

Mark Henry - who went from "The World's Strongest Man" to "Sexual Chocolate"

Technically, that'd be making the emphasis on being black.

2-Cold Scorpio - Who went as Flash Funk

Also, that's an emphasis on him being black. Funk is a predominantly-black music genre.

Big Daddy V - Who went from Mabel to Viscera

He was a fat guy. What more could they have done with him?

Booker T - Who went from a spineroonie to a King

Well, in truth, the gimmick was to keep him relevant and he just happened to succeed with the gimmick. But, even with that gimmick, part of it was that he would let the "ghetto side" of him out when he was angered.

The Boogeyman - Enough said..

Ehh. Shit gimmick.

Brother Devon - Whose brothers were all white

That was part of the gimmick. He also came out with the preacher aspect of his promos.

Elijah Burke - Who is a pope or something (I don't watch TNA)

Also involves himself with a black, preacher style.

Ernest Miller - Who turned into a dancing cat

Who modeled himself after Ali and James Brown.

Farooq - Who went from a black supremest to a bar fighting roughneck

He was a black militant for a while. All gimmicks run their course. Something drastic was needed in order to make the new direction work.

The Godfather - Who went from a Voodoo doctor to black supremest to hilarious pimp

A black pimp. That's what he was modeled after.

Montel Vontavious Porter - Who ran around telling everyone he was better then them screaming BALLIN!

He was modeled after athletes that think so highly of themselves. Most of those athletes are black. Not all, but most.

Norman Smiley - (Screams like a bitch) yeah..

He isn't African-American. So, theoretically, he doesn't really apply.

Jay Lethal - Who dressed up like Macho Man and Flair

That was apart of the joke. He was black, acting like old white men.

Orlando Jordan - Is he gay now on TNA? whats up wit dat!

He's black. But, he's also a legitimately bi-sexual man. So, why not play off of the more provocative aspect of his personality?

Virgil - Who ran around as a slave half his career..

Unfortunately, that's looked upon as black in this country. Slaves were black in this country when slavery was taking place. The gimmick helped get them both over when Virgil was supposed to turn, remember. However, Virgil sucks so it didn't go anywhere.

and of course my two current favorites..

J.T.G

R-Truth

Currently the two biggest jokes and slap to face for black wrestling fans everywhere in the world. These two are extremely talented superstars and the fact they have to run around at gangster wanna-bes yelling YO YO YO! & WHATS UP! is insulting.

If you haven't noticed by now. I am of American American decent, & grew up in what the WWE would call a "rough neighborhood" like they say whenever someone grew up in a ghetto neighborhood.

I am curious to why the WWE feels they can't let a black wrestler be who he is? If he's thugged out and disrespectful. Let him be so.. if not, let him run around in colorful outfits screaming like a idiot. Other superstars such as Stone Cold came out of his shell when the WWE let him be a beer drinking red-neck.

It's obvious alot of Black Wrestlers would gain alot from this, but why won't the WWE let it be? because it's rated PG? If so.. That sucks

I'm not calling the WWE racist, I'm just curious as to why they are scared of letting a black wrestler be himself.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Honestly, I think you're missing the problem here. The problem is not that WWE doesn't give black wrestlers a chance, the problem is that there are not that many top-flight black wrestlers. Especially, in comparison to white wrestlers.

Take Ezekiel Jackson, for example, nothing about his gimmick is "black." The reason? The WWE see him as this huge, overpowering monster that can physically dominate. They go with this instead of something pro-back or stereotypically black because he's given them something else to work with.

Other wrestlers simply haven't.

One of the main threads with the name you listed are that I don't see any of them breaking through to the main event. A few are great workers, some are OKay on the mic. Most simply don't feel like they have the it factor.

Could be the booking. Could be the wrestlers. But the fact of the matter is that something isn't clicking. Then again, look at all the white wrestlers that are in the same situation. The difference, "white stereotypes" have already been played to death.

Cowboys, American Heroes, Rednecks, Hillbillies, Bikers, Racists. There are simply more white wrestlers. So, more are going to have it and more are going to break through.

Simply a numbers game.

 

[Kaneanite]

No. You're the ignorant type who's not read more than half of this entire topic to really get a feel of what I'm saying. Fuck you, my girlfriend is Irish, and I know all too well about racism towards the Irish. Even presently, they're still looked down upon by most.

Are you an American of Irish descent who says they're Irish or are you actually from Ireland, Einstein?

Because you'd have to be from Ireland to say you're Irish, which my girlfriend was actually BORN.

Before you handglide from that guy's scrotum hair and defend bullshit, make sure you've actually been present the entire argument, cause shit like that doesn't quite work with me. Would you like fries with that?

Wait? Irish is a race? You are such a fucking idiot, "Einstein".

I don't give a shit who your girlfriend is. I really don't. She must be a nice person though to date someone who's dumb enough to think being Irish is a race.

My Irish comment was sarcasm, dumbass. It was to show how idiotic your argument was. I do not feel stereotyped nor insulted by the WWE portraying Sheamus as an angry cheating Irishmen who is white as a cloud. So I don't know why you find the need to bitch at something like that. Fucking relax, it's entertainment. The WWE isn't trying to make some biased or racial statement, they're just making $$$ and entertainment. But people who just love to bitch will always complain about something, I guess.

And yeah of course how typical. Since I'm siding with the other guy who was arguing against your dumbass that means I'm 'handgliding his scrotum' or whatever you said. When you actually go out into the world you are going to have a tough time.

Would you like fries with that?

Plan on using that a lot, buddy.... I don't see much of a future for a guy who thinks Irish is a race.

 

[thedukeofpearls]

Wait? Irish is a race? You are such a fucking idiot, "Einstein".

I don't give a shit who your girlfriend is. I really don't. She must be a nice person though to date someone who's dumb enough to think being Irish is a race.

My Irish comment was sarcasm, dumbass. It was to show how idiotic your argument was. I do not feel stereotyped nor insulted by the WWE portraying Sheamus as an angry cheating Irishmen who is white as a cloud. So I don't know why you find the need to bitch at something like that. Fucking relax, it's entertainment. The WWE isn't trying to make some biased or racial statement, they're just making $$$ and entertainment. But people who just love to bitch will always complain about something, I guess.

And yeah of course how typical. Since I'm siding with the other guy who was arguing against your dumbass that means I'm 'handgliding his scrotum' or whatever you said. When you actually go out into the world you are going to have a tough time.



Plan on using that a lot, buddy.... I don't see much of a future for a guy who thinks Irish is a race.

You're an idiot. Show me where I said Irish was a race and I'll glady eat shit and die.

Irish would be nationality; not race.
Further, if it's just entertainment and I should "just chill", then perhaps you should follow your own advice, because I've yet to see anywhere in this thread where I myself stated that I'm offended by any WWE character portrayal. I said the following-


A. WWE has yet to show their creativity without enforcing the use of any gimmick aimed at anyone.

B. The fact that WWE fans are likely to be younger just goes to show you how little WWE cares that in the real world (and not your semen-drenched keyboard cyber universe) these stereotypes are effective; presently.

C. WWE and wrestling as a whole should be able to pull off a show without including the aforementioned.

D. I could really care less about any of it, though I chose to contribute to this topic in not just one way.

Finally, I've yet to see ANY samoan wrestler not portray a wild savage cannibal; excluding The Rock. With this being said, I didn't say in any of this thread that WWE was racist.
The keyword is comprehension, because failure to comprehend anything makes you and your "buddy" look really half-assed. Further, this will be the last time I address either of you, who are most likely the type of people who haven't actually been to a WWE live event, and are more likely to fall prey to WWE internet rumours.

Me, I've met many a wrestler, followed the WWE my entire life, not to forget AWA, NWA, SMW etc...

I can honestly say that new age WWE fanboys like yourselves are it's downfall. You're the reason this topic was even created.

Think.

 

[GI Cake]

Ohh fun another discussion of race and Professional Wrestling, this should be a fun post before I go to sleep. I am a white Male who grew up in Chicago and later moved to Miami, my family was never really on their own feet when it came to keeping their bank accounts healthy and we lived on food stamps till recently.

As I made friends with the Blacks and the Hispanics in my apartment complex's and Neighborhoods I tried to convince them to watch Monday Night Raw with me. Sadly enough Professional Wrestling does not seem to appeal to inner city Black/Hispanic demographic (No matter how much you would like to dress it up, majority of black and Hispanics are poor in the United States)

That being said, I can see how it is hard for any major programming to find a talented black Wrestler that can star in the Main-event and draw fans like John Cena or Jeff Hardy. Sadly as humans, many of them make mistakes in their lives that come back to haunt them. For instance Carlito was a very talented wrestler who could draw a lot of heat, however, his drug addiction caused the 'E to fire him. R-Truth is only a victim of circumstance because of his time spent in TNA that he is a jobber today.


The very same could be said for plenty of White superstars like Jeff Hardy, and the late Chris Benoit.

In the end though, the only true black wrestler to ever become a huge figure in Professional Wrestler is the Rock, which could be debated that he is the best Wrestler of perhaps all time. So as far as I am concerned, as long as you got a fresh gimmick, decent mic, a honest work ethic, and talented in the ring I don't care if you are purple...

 

[Decarow]

Over the years the WWE/WCW & TNA has brought in many talented black superstars. But it seems since the Attitude era ended they have tried to "water down" any and every black superstar into NOT being seen as Black.

Just to name a few

Shelton Benjamin - turned into the "Gold Standard"
Mark Henry - who went from "The World's Strongest Man" to "Sexual Chocolate"
2-Cold Scorpio - Who went as Flash Funk
Big Daddy V - Who went from Mabel to Viscera
Booker T - Who went from a spineroonie to a King
The Boogeyman - Enough said..
Brother Devon - Whose brothers were all white
Elijah Burke - Who is a pope or something (I don't watch TNA)
Ernest Miller - Who turned into a dancing cat
Farooq - Who went from a black supremest to a bar fighting roughneck
The Godfather - Who went from a Voodoo doctor to black supremest to hilarious pimp
Montel Vontavious Porter - Who ran around telling everyone he was better then them screaming BALLIN!
Norman Smiley - (Screams like a bitch) yeah..
Jay Lethal - Who dressed up like Macho Man and Flair
Orlando Jordan - Is he gay now on TNA? whats up wit dat!
Virgil - Who ran around as a slave half his career..

and of course my two current favorites..

J.T.G

R-Truth

Currently the two biggest jokes and slap to face for black wrestling fans everywhere in the world. These two are extremely talented superstars and the fact they have to run around at gangster wanna-bes yelling YO YO YO! & WHATS UP! is insulting.

If you haven't noticed by now. I am of American American decent, & grew up in what the WWE would call a "rough neighborhood" like they say whenever someone grew up in a ghetto neighborhood.

I am curious to why the WWE feels they can't let a black wrestler be who he is? If he's thugged out and disrespectful. Let him be so.. if not, let him run around in colorful outfits screaming like a idiot. Other superstars such as Stone Cold came out of his shell when the WWE let him be a beer drinking red-neck.

It's obvious alot of Black Wrestlers would gain alot from this, but why won't the WWE let it be? because it's rated PG? If so.. That sucks

I'm not calling the WWE racist, I'm just curious as to why they are scared of letting a black wrestler be himself.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

You realize that most white superstars aren't really who they are, right?

You said it's insulting to see R-Truth and JTG running around yelling "YO YO YO" and "WHATS UP!?", and then you later say they should be themselves. They ARE being themselves. What you see is the truth about how terrible that ghetto gimmick really is. I'm not being racist, it's the truth. It makes them look stupid.

You realize JTG was in OVW as The Neighborhoodie, right? And Cryme Time was called the Gangstars.

It looks like you're just looking for a reason to bitch. There are lots of white stars that have had shit gimmicks but lots of talent.

Booker T, Ron Simmons, The Rock (half black), and Mark Henry are all former world champions.

Shelton Benjamin was probably one of the greatest IC champions of the past decade. MVP held the US championship for the longest reign in WWE history. And Benjamin had a similar reign afterwards.

Jay Lethal actually liked impersonating Flair and Macho Man.

Oh, and fyi, Orlando Jordan is being HIMSELF.

So stop bitching about racism, it doesn't help us move forward.

 

[punchline]

Congratulations pearls, feel proud of yourself for completely misunderstanding my post, making the rest of your winded post irrelevant.

Looking back at my last post, perhaps i should elaborate a bit, seeing as how i know the "explain yourself" post is coming anyway.

when looking at TNA and WWE on this issue, I'm only willing to judge the current company on this issue. the past is the past and companies change. both organizations have had their share of stupid/offensive gimmicks, but WWE is certainly moving up while TNA is moving down.

you asked who the guys i named were? Mark Henry and Ezekial Jackson are both former main eventers and world champions on ECW. Though they were short reigns, it's still more than the current TNA stars are getting that you claim are being given better. also, Otunga, Tarver, and Young may have done nothing in your eyes, but they were still a part of one of the biggest angles the WWE have run in the past several years. Henry, Otunga, and Jackson are also still featured on WWE programming almost every week.

Now let's look at TNA. You have Devon, Jay Lethal, Orlando Jordan and Dinero (another offensive gimmick by the way) as the only current wrestlers in TNA that aren't white. now you tell me, what have they done? a short story here and there, maybe 1 quick high profile match, thats it.

I'm not trying to say that WWE is leaps and bounds above TNA. I'm merely trying to show that whoever posted (i cant remember if it was pearls or someone else) that TNA does a better job of using and pushing black wrestlers is off the mark. this matter is ultimately up to opinion. but i'm only talking about the current product. if you wanna look into the pasts of both companies, the WWE has had many more black wrestlers featured prominently without offensive gimmicks than TNA has.

 

[thedukeofpearls]

Looking back at my last post, perhaps i should elaborate a bit, seeing as how i know the "explain yourself" post is coming anyway.

when looking at TNA and WWE on this issue, I'm only willing to judge the current company on this issue. the past is the past and companies change. both organizations have had their share of stupid/offensive gimmicks, but WWE is certainly moving up while TNA is moving down.

you asked who the guys i named were? Mark Henry and Ezekial Jackson are both former main eventers and world champions on ECW. Though they were short reigns, it's still more than the current TNA stars are getting that you claim are being given better. also, Otunga, Tarver, and Young may have done nothing in your eyes, but they were still a part of one of the biggest angles the WWE have run in the past several years. Henry, Otunga, and Jackson are also still featured on WWE programming almost every week.

Now let's look at TNA. You have Devon, Jay Lethal, Orlando Jordan and Dinero (another offensive gimmick by the way) as the only current wrestlers in TNA that aren't white. now you tell me, what have they done? a short story here and there, maybe 1 quick high profile match, thats it.

I'm not trying to say that WWE is leaps and bounds above TNA. I'm merely trying to show that whoever posted (i cant remember if it was pearls or someone else) that TNA does a better job of using and pushing black wrestlers is off the mark. this matter is ultimately up to opinion. but i'm only talking about the current product. if you wanna look into the pasts of both companies, the WWE has had many more black wrestlers featured prominently without offensive gimmicks than TNA has.

In all honesty, I'll be the first to apologize to you, Punchline. I realize at times I may seem a bit harsh. However, I felt that this topic created by the OP was centered around "black wrestlers", and throughout this entire thread, I've said in perhaps not the most simplistic manner that gimmicks are bad for all wrestlers.
My only point in bringing TNA up was the fact that black wrestlers have actually been champions, and that on any given day, their way of concocting and or suggesting gimmicks for wrestlers are not solely based on the concept of gimmicks alone to push talent; unlike WWE.
This is not to say that TNA is better than WWE in any way, because quite frankly, TNA lacks star power and seems to be a watered down version of WCW, only with much more cruiserweights present in a dominant manner.

But to conclude this rant, I'd definitely say otherwise regarding TNA's gimmick usage in comparison to WWE. I'd say WWE utilizes a style which exploits and glorifies the negative aspects of gimmicks. It's simple as-

Reverend Devon, The Godfather, Flash Funk, Sexual Chocolate, NOD, Cryme Tyme, Virgil (by far the worst), R-truth (his prison storyline), Rodney Mack, Theodore Long, amongst others versus TNA's D'angelo Dinero and the few I'm actually able to think of which by comparison is rather narrow. But that's beside the point that my initial reason for participating in this thread lied in the fact that Samoans have been portrayed just as bad as black wrestlers, and by far any gimmick in WWE is inaccurate. But who's to tell a young viewer or perhaps a fan who's not encountered a Samoan, an Irishman, A black person etc etc that it's just for entertainment purposes only?

 

[TheMainMan32]

Over the years the WWE/WCW & TNA has brought in many talented black superstars. But it seems since the Attitude era ended they have tried to "water down" any and every black superstar into NOT being seen as Black.

Just to name a few

Shelton Benjamin - turned into the "Gold Standard"
Mark Henry - who went from "The World's Strongest Man" to "Sexual Chocolate"
2-Cold Scorpio - Who went as Flash Funk
Big Daddy V - Who went from Mabel to Viscera
Booker T - Who went from a spineroonie to a King
The Boogeyman - Enough said..
Brother Devon - Whose brothers were all white
Elijah Burke - Who is a pope or something (I don't watch TNA)
Ernest Miller - Who turned into a dancing cat
Farooq - Who went from a black supremest to a bar fighting roughneck
The Godfather - Who went from a Voodoo doctor to black supremest to hilarious pimp
Montel Vontavious Porter - Who ran around telling everyone he was better then them screaming BALLIN!
Norman Smiley - (Screams like a bitch) yeah..
Jay Lethal - Who dressed up like Macho Man and Flair
Orlando Jordan - Is he gay now on TNA? whats up wit dat!
Virgil - Who ran around as a slave half his career..

and of course my two current favorites..

J.T.G

R-Truth

Currently the two biggest jokes and slap to face for black wrestling fans everywhere in the world. These two are extremely talented superstars and the fact they have to run around at gangster wanna-bes yelling YO YO YO! & WHATS UP! is insulting.

If you haven't noticed by now. I am of American American decent, & grew up in what the WWE would call a "rough neighborhood" like they say whenever someone grew up in a ghetto neighborhood.

I am curious to why the WWE feels they can't let a black wrestler be who he is? If he's thugged out and disrespectful. Let him be so.. if not, let him run around in colorful outfits screaming like a idiot. Other superstars such as Stone Cold came out of his shell when the WWE let him be a beer drinking red-neck.

It's obvious alot of Black Wrestlers would gain alot from this, but why won't the WWE let it be? because it's rated PG? If so.. That sucks

I'm not calling the WWE racist, I'm just curious as to why they are scared of letting a black wrestler be himself.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

First of all, I'm a Black American.

Now that that's out of the way, this subject is less about the WWE being "afraid of letting a black wrestler be himself", and more about stupid, ignorant, hood-boogers like yourself thinking that in order to be black you have to speak a certain way, or dress a certain way, or act a certain way. If he doesn't, he's imitating white people.

Man, motherfuck you and whoever designed you. You're from the hood, you should know where that quote comes from.

Edit: Sorry for the language, but that shit simply pisses me off.

 

[trendkiller]

If you want to talk about stereotypes and offensive characters, the african american wrestlers should probably not be your very first targets.

What about Mohammad Hassan, now that was racist. He was a heel, a bad guy, because he was a foreign muslim with anti-American views. Now, contrary to popular belief, being a "good guy" does not automatically equal being an American and likewise, believing that perhaps the US of A has some flaws does not automagically make you an asshole. (Though, the presentation was provocative, of course).

What about The Iron Sheik? Old school, sure, but if that gimmick was introduced today, would it even fly at all? (Granted that the Sheik himself is pretty offensive, but you get the point).

The Great Khali, he's big, lumbering and he's from India so of course he can't speak English... only... India was occupied by the British Empire for ye number of years and English is an official language of the country. But since he's from "the third world" obviously he should be portrayed as an ignorant moron.

I find those three stereotypes, along with just about every charicature of Russians as surly, bull-headed iron-curtain communists, every Brit as a snobby, self-centered nobleman, every French guy as a holier-than-thou, arrogant attention-hogger, are far more offensive than R-Truth coming to the ring "rapping" his own theme and asking the crowd "What's up?"

Could someone tell me what non-English "foreigner" heels have held a major championship in the WWE for any substantial amount of time in the past fifteen years? The Great Khali did... anyone else? And how many non-English "foreigner" faces have there been? Not even holding a major title, I mean, just... at all?

(I don't mean to pose the questions rhetorically, I honestly have no idea.)

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

It's what draws dude. If a black guy gets super over, then he'll get pushed. Black guys don't always draw. Sorry. Maybe WWE isn't racist, maybe the fans are. I mean, most of them are white trash.

Who cares what gimmicks they're given. Some black guys can pull that off, in wrestling, stereotyping is one easy way to get over. You can get over with an audience identifying with you, a stereotype is an easy way to do that.

Truth can rap pretty well, so that works. Plus it's kinda his thing he came up with it seems.

 

[nikvoodoo]

The reason WWE, or TNA or any other media outlet uses stereotypes is very simple: Stereotypes exist because enough of that specific population can fit into said stereotype that makes it easy to pigeon hole everyone from that same population. Look at shows like Law and Order, or just about any other drama on television. They all do it and it's all accepted by the general public.

In terms of some of the black/minority wrestlers who haven't made it big think of it this way: There are way more white wrestlers who haven't made it just like the black wrestlers mentioned for many of the same reasons (horrible on the mic, bad in ring work, no charisma etc).

I won't say racism has nothing to do with it because I'm not backstage and dealing with the politics. But I will say it seems like proportionally it appears to be the same for minority performers vs. white performers. Since there are more white performers, the odds of them succeeding is greater just because of their volume, but that also means their failure rate is bound to be greater as well.

Regarding gimmicks: Bastion Booger, The Goon, Berserker, Rico, The Bodydonnas, Battle Kat, Amish Roadkill, Eugene, Phantasio... Some stereotypes/horrible gimmicks portrayed by white wrestlers. I'm not going to say they equal to the alleged racism being thrown around in this thread, I'm just saying proportionally I think the numbers of successful minority wrestlers makes sense by volume.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Think about this too, up until probably mid 90s, maybe even later, wrestling was RACIST. The bookers were mostly. Wrestling is HUUUUUGE in the south. What else is HUUUUUGE in the south? Racism. So, go figure, Booker T is the first guy to legitimately be a top guy in the late 90s. Well, then Rock who is both samoan and black.

Even if the bookers weren't racist, you play to your audience. If your audience is racist (which a lot of the south is and a lot of the poor white trash "communities" are), then your content will have less black people being pushed.

It sucks. I honestly thought that Pope could be like Cena huge. It's cool to be black, it's even cooler to be a cool black dude. Look at the music industry. Lil Wayne is a shit rapper but he's "over". Play up to the fact that there are a ton of white kids who act black. Capitalize on that and sell the shit out of it.

 

[Reddog1146]

Not all black people are getting the raw end of the deal. Booker T won a world title and was king of the ring and is now a commentator. Ezekiel Jackson was and always will be the last ECW champion. Kofi Kingston was the first African born guy to win the intercontinental title. Lastly, R Truth seems to be on the rise but we have to wait until Extreme Rules to see if he really gets a real push.