Samoa Joe and the MEM: Good or Bad?

[travistragic]

I think I like Powerade's suggestion the best: Angle and Joe turning against the Mafia. Joe joining the mafia, on the other hand, seems kind of silly after beating the crap out of Steiner and Nash and Booker and kidnapping Sharmell.

Yeah, I know it's only professional wrestling and it isn't supposed to make sense, but Vince Russo likes to pull off stupid tricks like this all the time and they always come off, IMO, like he thinks we're all fucking ******ed and will just cheer or boo anything regardless of how illogical it is, as long as we don't expect it. Yeah, Russo you surprised me. I'd also be surprised to see a flying pig or an 80 year old woman give birth to a hand or David Arquette win a world title, because that stuff doesn't make any sense.

At any rate it sounded like a good ppv, and I'd like to say I'm interested in where it's going, but that depends on whether or not it will translate into TNA actually starting to air wrestling matches on Impact, because it looks from here like another excuse for more talk'n'talk. If this leads to a half-hour of MEM and Joe doing tea and biscuits in the ring, count me out.

 

[crotchknocker]

This definitely was surprising, but like some of you said, we really have to wait until Thursday to hear the full explanation. Joe is in the Mafia though, apparently they posed together after the show went off the air. Although I don't remember Sting being on the ramp after the match ended so this probably will cause disention like many of you said.

Also originally I thought this meant Angle was the mentor, since it seems that the whole killing Angle thing was just a ploy. Angle, however, can't be the mentor, because if you remember the first time the mentor "appeared" Angle was in the ring at Lockdown.

Anyway we really have to wait to see how this plays out, but right now I'm thinking they did this with little thought just to swerve us.

 

[MoneyMack]

"The Mentor" "appeared"? When did that happen? I guess I musta missed something there.
I dont follow TNA as close as i do WWE, but I'd like to think I would remember something like that happening. Could someone remind me how this played out, and when we actually saw the mentor appear?

 

[BigDaddyDawg]

As I said earlier, I'm not a fan of Vince Russo. I think most of the things he's written have been stupid. That being said, I REEEEEEEALLY hope this doesn't turn into an NWO/Wolfpac thing. Knowing Russo, it probably will. And if it does, I will turn off TNA until that angle is gone.

 

[crotchknocker]

"The Mentor" "appeared"? When did that happen? I guess I musta missed something there.
I dont follow TNA as close as i do WWE, but I'd like to think I would remember something like that happening. Could someone remind me how this played out, and when we actually saw the mentor appear?

He didn't appear, but the first time they showed Joe talking to somebody was before Joe entered the Lethal Lockdown match, which Angle started for his team.

 

[Gemma]

So why did samoa joe help kurt angle. I thought they hated each other. I thought AJ and Joe were pretty tight and were in the front line together.

 

[D-Man]

So why did samoa joe help kurt angle. I thought they hated each other. I thought AJ and Joe were pretty tight and were in the front line together.

I guess the only way to answer this question is to ask Vince Russo. He's the one who wrote the storyline.

 

[justinsayne]

Don't think Joe is in MEM yet, Sting is then leader of MEM so one would assume that he's the one that decides if Joe is in or out, and Sting was the only MEM member to not come out at the end of the match, this should make for an interesting little clusterfuck, I could see Sting having a match with Joe like he did with Morgan, where he puts his MEM spot on the line, MEM, annoyed with Sting comes out and cost Sting the match, thus kicking Sting out of MEM and allowing Joe to enter I assume this would also give Angle his role as the leader of MEM back

 

[E.M.C]

This is potentially horrible. The MEM is a group of washed up WCW stars from 14 years ago and Angle. Joe joining gives them a pure TNA grown star and then that leaves room for someone to leave the mafia and start another new feud, but really the MEM should have been disbanded before it started. Have they not watched WCW before?

 

[whojgov32]

I was at the event and it was really good. I always pretty much know whats going to happen and never get surprised. I was shocked. But didn't he just demolish Steiner and Booker in the last few weeks? What did they do just "take one for the team?" A little confusing but we'll see where it goes. One thing for sure TNA puts on a good live event. Fan interaction is way more than WWE events. I've been to Wrestlemania and Judgement Day. Now Lockdown and Slammiversary and TNA is where its at as far as a well put on show. Granted Wrestlemania 23 had killer entrances.

 

[Nuja]

Hi,

What about the beating Samoa J. gave to some MEM member ? How can they seem that friendly after they have been destroyed by Samoa J. ? Even if Samoa J helped Angle they should be angry and want revenge over him...

It was nothing for Angle but Booker T, Steiner and Kevin N. ? they were "bleeding".

I find It strange that they all seemed ok with Samoa J. "being" MEM member (of course we need confirmation that he is in)

(By the way nice forum, was registered and reading for a moment )

 

[2012isbs]

I liked it, it shows TNA can come up with a half decent storyline then hae turn crap then get me interested again in teh storyline alone not just wrestling great matches with bad or no storyline around them. I think Tazz will probably join up with either Raven and Richards, the Frontline, MEM or Joe will have been listneing to Tazz all along. Think about original Tazz would have choked out anyone but with him not wanting to be attacked by the Mafia he didn't show his face but Joe didn't lilsten to him one time and joined the MEM or Joe is doing just to turn on them a la a CM Punk and New Breed.
So yes this is good peole are talking about which is what TNA wants and they think it's a good thing also what TNA wants.

 

[King Patrick Star]

The idea I like the best here is actually a split in the Mob, a la Wolfpac, with an Angle face turn. From there I would like to see A. J. join Joe and Kurt and form a new stable of TNA Grand Slam / Triple Crown Champions.

Back to reality.

I like this move by Joe and the M. E. Mob, only because Joe does indeed fit the Mafia criteria. All you have to do is be a former World Champ and that’s about it. If I’m not mistaken, Joe has held a World Title longer than Scott Steiner, which makes him more than qualified to be a part of the group. The only choices in TNA to join this group would have been Jeff, Mick, A. J. Abyss, Raven (kind of), and Shane Douglas (sort of). I think this works and with the Taz possibility, he too can join the Mob. All in all, good move by TNA to switch it up. I sure hope that Joe becomes the second TNA Grand Slam Champion before the end of the year.

We can at the very least, thank TNA for not letting Morgan beat Sting. Talk about some $#!+ that just doesn’t make sense.

 

[404]

Personally, I think it was a great move on part of TNA. No one saw it coming. They can take this in so many directions now.

We can now see a Styles/Joe, Jarrett/Joe, and/or a Daniels/Joe feud.

If Taz does indeed show up in TNA, Taz would fit in well with the Mafia.

Also like I stated on a different thread, Joe being in the MEM gives him more credibility being in a main event status feud and also would make a great addition to the Mafia.

Exactly. The problem is, people do not seem to understand what the hell a swerve is. The other issue is; some people in their own bewildered mind, seem to think every swerve needs an explanation. If that was the case

There had better be a good explanation on impact cos this has literally come from nowhere, this is more than just a swerve, its a full on 180 from Joe.

Saying that it'll be interesting to see where the angle goes from here, lots of new feuds, freshen up the existing feuds, i just hope TNA dont fuck it up

Samoa Joe in MEM? Good? Exciting? is that what TNA and it's fans are reduced too? Calling this a major swerve?

This is 24 hour bookings. Nobody saw it coming, cause it doesn't make a LICK OF FUCKING SENSE.

So Joe, bad ass fucking Joe, KING of the Nation of Violence HANDS another man the title he could have won? LOL. Oh I know, Nash and Steiner will forgive him for the lashings he did to them. Sharmell too, for kidnapping her. It was a plot right? For what? So Joe can be Angle's lackey? This is horrible. Everything the past few months, the vignettes, the stories, the PPV matches are officially worth nothing now. Joe isn't even a damn legend.

I mean calling this a great swerve is fucking idiotic. Vince could swerve us all and put Cena in Orton. Or Taker. Nobody would expect that would they? Taker in Legacy..... So why doesn't it happen? CAUSE IT WOULDN'T MAKE A BIT OF SENSE

A great swerve has to make SOME sense. Maybe not even 50% at first, but SOME. Joe had no reason to join MEM. Joe had no reason to hand Angle the Belt.

And don't hand me the shit about him coming out and respect this respect that. If the fat fuck had any respect for himself he would have kept the title himself right? Not be Angle's bitch boy.

Hogan joining nWo, THAT was a great swerve. Cause it made sense. People understood WHY He did what he did, but they still hated him for it.

Survivor Series 97. THAT was a great swerve, cause it made people talk, it made Vince a heel, and the rest is history.

If it wasn't for internet, Shawn kicking Hogan would have been a nice swerve. Again, it made sense.

Instead of TNA saying hey, we fucked up. Nobody cares about a painted up fat guy, so we will go back to what made him a beast. He will fight everyone and beat everyone. No. No. Lets make him look even MORE weak.

Damn it, i want to like TNA. I want a reason to switch from WWE, just like in 96. But TNA has to bring better shit than this. Than Foley, than Raven and Douglas and Morgan vs Sting. Bring something, anything. You had something special years ago. Now that you got the TV exposure, bring it back.

Care to elaborate what made the Hogan swerve make so much sense? "This is the future of wrestling, brother" "I'm bigger than the business, brother". The explanation alone was enough of a swerve for you?

The montreal screwjob was a screwjob, not a swerve. The intention of the montreal screwjob was to strip the belt away from Hart without him knowing it. Vince likely had no clue that Bret was going to spit in his face on live television, let alone the fans constantly boo him the way they did. Clearly, he had no idea the fans were that smart to the wrestling business to understand what went on. Vince simply capitalized on the heat, after the fact, in order to make himself the persona we saw at the time, the boss from hell.

Some people in their own bewildered mind, seem to think every swerve needs an explanation. A swerve is a swerve regardless of whether there is an explanation or even logic behind it. It's strictly an unexpected turn of events. If you didn't like the outcome, that's another story. Whether you like it or not (that's your opinion), it was a swerve and it got all of us. Hell, we are talking about it right now aren't we.

 

[Gemma]

What is a swerve?

 

[Genius_Deadman]

this = WCW's Finger Poke of Doom

 

[T2KFreeker]

Samoa Joe in MEM? Good? Exciting? is that what TNA and it's fans are reduced too? Calling this a major swerve?

This is 24 hour bookings. Nobody saw it coming, cause it doesn't make a LICK OF FUCKING SENSE.

So Joe, bad ass fucking Joe, KING of the Nation of Violence HANDS another man the title he could have won? LOL. Oh I know, Nash and Steiner will forgive him for the lashings he did to them. Sharmell too, for kidnapping her. It was a plot right? For what? So Joe can be Angle's lackey? This is horrible. Everything the past few months, the vignettes, the stories, the PPV matches are officially worth nothing now. Joe isn't even a damn legend.

I mean calling this a great swerve is fucking idiotic. Vince could swerve us all and put Cena in Orton. Or Taker. Nobody would expect that would they? Taker in Legacy..... So why doesn't it happen? CAUSE IT WOULDN'T MAKE A BIT OF SENSE

A great swerve has to make SOME sense. Maybe not even 50% at first, but SOME. Joe had no reason to join MEM. Joe had no reason to hand Angle the Belt.

And don't hand me the shit about him coming out and respect this respect that. If the fat fuck had any respect for himself he would have kept the title himself right? Not be Angle's bitch boy.

Hogan joining nWo, THAT was a great swerve. Cause it made sense. People understood WHY He did what he did, but they still hated him for it.

Survivor Series 97. THAT was a great swerve, cause it made people talk, it made Vince a heel, and the rest is history.

If it wasn't for internet, Shawn kicking Hogan would have been a nice swerve. Again, it made sense.

Instead of TNA saying hey, we fucked up. Nobody cares about a painted up fat guy, so we will go back to what made him a beast. He will fight everyone and beat everyone. No. No. Lets make him look even MORE weak.

Damn it, i want to like TNA. I want a reason to switch from WWE, just like in 96. But TNA has to bring better shit than this. Than Foley, than Raven and Douglas and Morgan vs Sting. Bring something, anything. You had something special years ago. Now that you got the TV exposure, bring it back.

Are you really sure that you want a reason to jump ship from WWE? They just pulled the swerve at the end of the Pay Per View, have had no time to explain it, and you are badmouthing how it doesn't make sense? When Hogan joineds the nWo at the end of Bash at the Beach, it really made no sense because there was no explanation. It was explained later. The Montreal screw job made no sense until you knew everything that was happening back stage. The heat in the back between everyone is what made that so great, not spectacular writing. You can't compare the two. TNA didn't Fuck up with Joe having a painted face either, it was a thing. He was still Samoa Joe ansd that's that. Also, as for the Fat Ass comments, I thought that the point of watching wrestling was to watch wrestling, not a glamor show? Joe wrestles very well and is in great shape for his size. That's what counts. I mean, if him being fat offends you, well maybe you need to get your manhood in check man because that's just a gay comment. He wrestles well, and that's the point. I personally like the fact that most of the TNA roster isn't muscled up statues like the majority of WWE's. It adds some realism to the product.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Since Sting is the leader, I don't know Joe joining them is definite. What probably will happen is that Sting will protest this and there will be a match between him and Angle with the stipulation that if Sting loses he is out of the Mafia. This could be a good way for the Legends Title to be defended between Styles and Joe.

 

[Spillz3000]

I'm glad somebody finally said something about the explanation of the swerve. I'm like when were all them other swerves explained. Either way the biggest problem everybody seems to have is how could Nash, Steiner, and Booker T be cool with Samoa Joe after he beat them down?

Um is it really out of the realm of possibility that they just played along to be hurt just to work along with the swerve and they knew the eventually payoff was for Kurt to bring the belt back to the mafia?

I mean I saw the "brutal first-blood matches" on Impact and come on people they were barely touched in those matches. I mean Scott Steiner had a garbage can over his head and Samoa Joe definitely wasn't swinging like Babe Ruth. Booker T barely got nailed in the stomach and it obviously looked like a blood capsule work to spit out blood. Then Sharmell being kidnapped, once again it was to play along so that Joe joining the Mafia was a bigger shock.

Is it really that impossible for them to play along and feigned to get hurt. I don't know I think most of the people that criticize this angle are thinking to realistically about it.

Anyway this easily opens up a Joe Vs. Styles fued since it was Joe who ultimately screwed styles over at the end of KOTM. And we will finally have a worthwild Legends Title fued. This fued will probably add the needed prestige that the Legend's title has been needing for a while. If Joe wins the Legends built he can have good fueds with a lot of the faces on the roster so this could be a good thing.

 

[travistragic]

I kind of like Spillz thinking here but only in terms of "no hay banda" David Lynch kind of shit, which I don't particularly think I'm going to run into a bunch of Mulholland Drive fans on a wrestling forum (fingers crossed someone gets the reference). The idea that everyone was playing along and blood capsules and selling beat-downs and etc. would be a suitable explanation for the storyline, but would also be a big mindfuck of metafiction, or in laymen wrestling fan terminology, calling attention to itself as a "work".

I personally would love that storyline (since I am a big David Lynch fan) but to your average wrestling fan, you start peeling pieces away like that and you're just going to leave them confused at about what you are actually going for, what's supposed to be a "real" storyline and what's supposed to be pretended, and you kind of ruin their trust. It becomes a big "Boy who Cried Wolf" to most: how do I know blank storyline isn't a ruse to lead to blank and so forth and I really don't think A) the creative staff is ready to tackle the complexities of moving forward intelligently in that area and B) the fans are ready to accept that kind of layered complexity when, in reality, they just want good guys and bad guys to fight. But, then again, they might just be relying on us to be stupid enough to just say "okay" with the short spurt of "it was all fixed up from the get-go" without immediately being suspect of every storyline they intend to do from that point on. Which, in that case, they'd probably be right, and maybe the rest of you can be okay with that, but I don't appreciate an organization treating me like I'm stupid. If they can follow through intelligently or at least logically, I think it'll be swell, it'll be great, but I just don't see it following through. As Ricky Ricardo said, they have some splainin' to do, and knowing TNA it'll take them all god-damned night.

 

[Sasori]

I think its great! Usually, I don't give a flying fuck about watching TNA but now I do. This really got me and IMO a lot of people hooked! And if TNA can bring up Joe's mic skills and put on a good show they will for sure become a MAJOR threat to WWE, I think its sooooooo smart and fresh, but we don't know for sure do we? Maybe Joe's a double agent? And I also wonder what Sting has to say, I mean isn't he the 'God father'?

 

[Nate DaMac]

I am starting to wonder how Sting is gonna factor into all this. Does he approve? Or does Joe have to prove himself? Either way, should be entertaining. The reason its a good swerve is because Kurt and Joe have been sworn enemies since they met, so partnering them up is shocking. I wonder if he'll start rocking Armani suits and shit.

 

[xJAYxJAYx]

I am starting to wonder how Sting is gonna factor into all this. Does he approve? Or does Joe have to prove himself?

I'm wondering the same thing. I'm waiting for Thursday and I'm not allowing myself to read the spoilers this week.

Although I pretty much agree with everyone that Kurt and the rest of the Mafia didn't consult with Sting about having Joe join the MEM.

But what if this was Sting's idea all along? I know, he wasn't on the entrance ramp after the big swerve...but remember a few weeks back where Tenay had a sit down interview with all the Mafia after Sting had won his "Godfather" spot? All the Mafia wanted to destroy Joe and were furious that Joe had this "hit list". Sting told Kurt to calm down and that they would deal with it his way.

So what if his way was consulting with Joe and his "secret adviser" to have Joe or both join up with the MEM.

Just one way they could take it. Although, personally id rather see MEM kick Sting out. Could possibly make for some better feuds.

 

[cod500]

Well Sting is out now, a shame because I liked how complex the MEM was with a face in the bunch. It kid of makes me lose interest now. Hopefully they at least turn Sting into what he was back in 1997, when he had no expression, did not speak, and just beat people up with bats.

TNA seems to be playing the NWO story line again. Sigh! Just when it was getting good.

 

[xJAYxJAYx]

Personally, after just watching iMPACT! I'm pretty interested in the way this is going. I'm actually glad Sting is out of MEM. Now we can see some other feuds that we haven't seen for awhile. I agree that the complexity of having a face in a stable of heels was interesting, Sting had to leave the Mafia sooner or later. He doesn't have much longer and I'm sure he didn't want to retire by being apart of the Mafia.

As far as the explanation we got as to why Joe did what he did. I liked it. It wasn't some over the top excuse, which I'm glad it wasn't. Simply...he just wanted money.

Looking forward to seeing Joe feud with AJ as well. Too bad they wont have a match at Victory Road though.