Round 8: youngbullzeye -vs- Disarray

Discussion in 'Debater's League 2010' started by D-Man, Sep 19, 2010.

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  1. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    Should WWE consider UFC to be a threat?

    This is a eighth round match in the Debater's League. youngbullzeye is the home debater and gets to choose which side of the debate they will be on and who debates first, but they have 24 hours to make their choice.

    This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Friday at 2pm EST.

    Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

    Good luck.​
     
  2. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    I will say that they are DEFINATELY and GD can go first
     
  3. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    Once again I'm glad to see my opponent picking the wrong side when given the choice. It's always a pleasure. Anyone, you want an opening post? Here you go.

    The UFC is certainly not a threat to the WWE and Vince and company shouldn't be afraid. For one thing, that aren't the same product at all. MMA and wrestling are completely different, obviously.

    MMA is a real sport consisting of takedowns, some striking, judging, etc. There's a PPV every month or so, but free TV events are pretty rare. Pro wrestling is predetermined, made up of matches with mostly crazy moves, mostly silly storylines, and many weekly shows to go along with the monthly PPV.

    Not only are that not the same sport's, but very rarely do they ever compete against each other. UFC PPVs are on Saturday's, WWE PPVs are on Sundays. The UFC doesn't really ever do anything during the week. How are they a threat?

    From personal experience, I tried to get into MMA for a few months, after UFC 100 I believe, mostly due to Brock and the Ultimate Fighter with Kimbo. I followed the UFC for awhile, watched some of the free events, kept track of PPV results and whatnot. However, after watching Griffin/Ortiz on a stream, I just didn't follow it anymore, and that was a pretty good fight. I haven't wavered on following pro wrestling and the WWE at all though.

    What's the point here? The UFC and the WWE aren't the same at all. It's not like UFC is going to be taking away fans from the WWE, or anything like that. They may draw higher PPV ratings here and there, but that isn't anything for the WWE to panic about. It's not like they're going to put them out of business or anything.

    I see no reason why they should be considered a threat.
     
  4. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    Your so full of your self GD but whatever.

    Has nothing to do if UFC is a threat.

    Again nothing to do with the topic.Next "point" please

     
  5. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    You're.

    Actually has everything to do with the topic. If products are similar to each other, you're more likely to have viewers crossover. Since MMA and pro wrestling aren't remotely the same (which you haven't refuted), the UFC isn't very likely to be a threat to the WWE.

    But since they aren't really the same, it's not like the UFC is a huge threat. I've been over this before, right?

    The fact that you (a wrestling fan) not finding any enjoyment from the UFC has everything to do with this topic. You see, youngster, you and I, we're a microcosom for most pro wrestling fans out there, in that we just don't like the UFC and aren't willing to give our money, time, and attention to it.

    I thought I made that pretty clear from the beginning. Reading comprehension, my friend.

    My doctor prescribed it, I swear!

    What's AE?

    I won't consider this legitimate evidence until you produce a picture of 60% of your male student body wearing UFC gear.

    Well, 17 out of 19 guys in my school wear WWE shirts to school. I kid, but honestly, I see a fair share of WWE gear at my school and no one's been beaten to a pulp because of it yet.

    Also, I don't think T-Shirt's and whatnot are that high on the importance scale when it comes to the "busniss asspect"

    The first somewhat decent point you've go, even though it is quite muddled. Anyway, UFC may have higher buyrates than the WWE, on average, but it's not like it's completely dominating or anything. Looking at the first 7 PPVs of last year for both companies, UFC 100 (1.7 Million) was the only UFC event that Wrestlemania (960 Thousand) didn't beat, so they clearly are still comparable.

    Even so, the whole point about them being different still holds true. Just because there are a lot of people ordering UFC events, it doesn't mean that those people would've bought WWE events in the UFC didn't exist. If anything, MMA is taking away boxing fans. WWE PPV numbers may be down, but there are plenty of other reasons. UFC probably isn't even in the top 10.

    Much more similar than UFC and WWE. Pro football and baseball are both real sports, covered on the same network, shown on the same networks, etc. They're very closely related.

    UFC is a real combat sport while the WWE is a soap opera. Clearly not the same, fella.

    Thanks for being honest with me.
     
  6. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    Touche:blush:



    I know that they are not the same but that dosent mean they aren't competition.Like the example I used in the other post MLB and NFL aren't the same but does that mean that they aren't competition to each other.Sure you can say they have some similarities but hey so do the UFC and WWE.And yes they should feel threatened.


    Yeah and i have told you that they are a threat you might not see it right now but over time it will happen.Granted if the WWE ever gets shutdown its not going to be because of another promotion its going to be from a different opponent,and that is the UFC.



    Yeah but we are just to people thier are millions(crowd: and millions sorry i had to do that:p)of people in the world that still have an opion.Weather its the UFC or the WWE thats up to them to decide.



    Well if it's legal mind sharing some after the debate:blush:?



    Attitude Era.



    Yeah bro ima go up to guys and be like hey let me take apicture of you:rolleyes:



    Well this might be becuase of what they people were raised from or where we live.

    Dude are you kidding me that buy the shirts become instant billboards for you without have to pay them.This is another way of advertising with out have to shell out money.



    Thank you for pointing this out.As i will take it as a complement somewhat.

    Well let me ask you are you really surprised that WM beat them i would actually be dissapointed it didn't beat all the PPV the UFC had to offer.That like saying the Superbowl beat all the games in views other than any other game during the season.Wouldn't you be dissapointed?

    UFC is affecting alot of sports that are not that popular right now like wrestling.Are you for reals UFC isn't top 10 on that list.Fuck they should be top 3 if anything and i want to see this list that the UFC didnt make.



    If you actually think about it they do have things in common let me make a short list.They both have monthly PPV's,they both are worldwide,they have different title in thier respective industry,they both depict violence,and they both are nonstop.So if you actually think about it they both are kind of the same not entirely but preety close.

    Well once you look at the list i wrote for you you will see that they kind of are the same, bud.



    Just keeping it real.
     
  7. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    Far too many smilies in this debate, fella.

    Why exactly will it happen over time? You're just assuming that it will happen, just because. WWE is one of the biggest, most successful companies in the world. Do you really think it's going to be knocked off by a niche sport?

    I'd overall, WWE and UFC are pretty similar as far as popularity goes. WWE may be ahead even. Simply looking at TV events, UFC is usually in the 1.5 range when it comes to fight nights and the low 3s when it comes to free PPVs. Raw beats both those numbers a majority of the time, proving the WWE is right up there as far as popularity goes.

    You love smilies, dontchya?

    Ok, so why exactly have most of the AE and older fans gone over the UFC? You said "because it's the thing to do." That's hardly evidence.

    If you can't do that, this point clearly has to be thrown out.

    Selling a few shirts may get you a couple million and some advertisting, but it's far from the most important thing out there.

    Even so, I'm fairly certain Cena alone is close to outselling UFC as far as shirts go. Haven't found any good sources, but that's what it seems like, from what I see. Tell me if you find anything that proves otherwise.

    You really shouldn't do that.

    Indeed, I would be disappointed, but WM only lost out to UFC 100, which was basically the biggest card ever. The point is, the UFC may be slightly ahead of the WWE in PPV buys, but it's not as wide of a margin as a lot of people think. Plus, it may not be as important as you think. More on that later.

    Stale matchups, declining economy, watching PPVs via other means, weak build ups to PPVs, stupid/unappealing PPV gimmicks, Lost, the NFL, having PPVs two weeks apart, etc, etc. I could go on all day before I get to something as insignificant as the UFC.

    One on Saturday, one on Sunday. Usually not on the same weekend, either. Don't affect each other, for the most part.

    Disney is a worldwide company as well. Are they a threat?

    Huh?

    No. The WWE depicts violence. UFC is violence.


    Umm, what? Not sure what this really means, but UFC is far from nonstop. They have breaks in between rounds as well as quite lenghty breaks in between fights. Regardless, don't see the point here, at all.
    So if you actually think about it they both are kind of the same not entirely but preety close.

    Not really. MMA is much closer to boxing than it is pro wrestling, mainly because, you know, it's a real sport with real people fighting for real titles, while the WWE is a male soap opera based around guys with mostly silly gimmicks in little thights doing unrealistic moves and talking at lenght about their problems with each other.

    Anyway, trying to clear this up a little here, with the whole PPV thing. Just look at it logically. Because UFC has higher PPV numbers than WWE on average, does that mean it is definetly a huge threat? Of course not.

    You're assuming that he audience is the same for both of these sports, which it clearly isn't, being as they aren't close to the same. Therefore, it is completely illogical to suggest that because more people are buying UFC events, less are buying WWE events. There is no correlation that can be made.

    As I said above, there are many other explanations that can be used for the recent lack of success in the PPV arena for the WWE, much bigger issues that UFC, which is a speciality sport.



    just because buying ufc, dont mean not buying wwe. other reasons
     
  8. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    First of sorry for taking long but it never showed you responded.

    It will come to an end like all good things.Its just the facts of like bro and if you dont see this your are blinded by your ignorance.And yes i do belive they will knock them off the way the WWE is right now i do think so.


    Are you kidding me they are almost similiar in popularity i think the doctor prescribed you too much.Well i dont know about where you live but over here Spike dosent are for free like USA.And you know what they may be beating them right now in ratings but hey so was WCW and look what happened thier so TV ratings mean squat to me.



    It was a good day if you know what i mean.



    Are you kidding me hardly evidence alot people are idiots and they are followers.I bet that alot of people that liked the attitude era started watching it becuase it was the thing to do.Well now fast foward and what is the new thing to do...thats right watch UFC.You and i know that wrestling as a whole is not doing great as it once was and that is because its not in right now,UFC is.




    So your telling me that its far fromthe most important.Let me ask you something what brings money into the WWE.PPV's make lots of money and who is winning that UFC,lets go back to merchendise and who is winning that you guessed it a UFC.So making money isnt the most immportant thing then what is.

    Well just like how i couldnt get pictures you dont have a source this point is FLAWED.




    OK then you said it your self the two "Superbowls" if you would call it that in one corner you had Wrestlemania with 885,000 PPV buys which was down from last year ,and in the other corner you had UFC 100 with 1,600,000 almost double to Wrestlemania.So you can see that WWE is declining while tthe UFC is becoming stronger.



    Yeah but those are mostly internal problems and does dont really count if you ask me.And i still cant figure out how in the hell LOST is problem loved the show but that show has been over for a couple of months so that was preety stupid that you included this.This list now just looks like a bunch of baloney.





    NO,my friend WWE is violence its just that they now how to take it as in thier bumps and all that other shit.That dosent make it less violent




    What i meant by nonstop is that they are both going at it 365 days a year that is what i meany by nonstop.



    Yes it does if YOU would look at it logically PPV is very important in both the UFC and WWE becuase that is were they make alot of money.And how is winning in the PPV's the UFC.If you say well so is merchendise you would shoot yourself in your foot.



    Well facts are facts dude more people are buying UFC events and if you actually think they are selling the same or WWE sells more you are ignorant.

    Speciality sport its not that special that you can kick someone ass inside a cage.So this point like one of your other point is flawed.



    What does this mean?


    Now as probably wont be here tomorrow becuase we have a football game in San Diego.I will post my closing arguement now.

    UFC is a threat to the WWE as i have been saying in this debate.They main reason is beacuse UFC is beating them were the WWE makes alot of thier money.As in merchindise and PPV.But i think the point that you cant ignore as to why UFC is threat is one of the points i made earlier.That is UFC 100 beating the WWE top PPV WM.UFC 100 almost doubled the PPV buys that the supposed biggest PPV of the year for the WWE.If your so called biggest PPV gets annihilated in buys as it did you have to take notice.If you dont i would be surprised seeing a decline which is already happening.
     
  9. gd

    gd Plump, Juicy User

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    kthnx.

    "All good things will come to an end" is just a saying, you know that, right? The WWE has been around for awhile now (Raw's the longest running episodic show in television history, dontchya know) and it's showing no signs of slowing down. Sure, at some point it might not be around anymore, but when exactly will that be? 50 years? 100 years? 500 years? And when it does end, how can you be sure that it will be simply because of the UFC? You're just making ridiculous, vague statements.

    I wasn't kidding you in the slightest. How exactly is this a ludicrous statement, when I've already been over how the WWE isn't far behind in popularity?

    They're both on basic cable. Literally 1 channel away from each other, for me at least. Basically on the exact same level when it comes to how many homes they're shown in.

    I was giving you the TV ratings to show that the UFC doesn't have an overwhelming popularity advantage over the WWE. It isn't like WCW at all. There's no ratings war going on and no one is competing directly against each other. Just an observation.


    No, I don't know that. There's legitmately nothing of substance in most of your posts. You can't just claim that you're right without any reasoning or evidence behind it.

    As I've said before, WWE and UFC PPV numbers are somewhat comparable. And it doesn't really matter, they're not competing against each other. It isn't a cause and effect relationship. Just because the UFC has higher numbers, it doens't mean that UFC is the reason for the WWE's lower numbers. You've done nothing to prove otherwise.

    How do you know the UFC has better merchandise numbers? As far as I know, the WWE doesn't release their merchandise sales numbers, so what exactly are you going by here, other than pure speculation.

    Indeed, just speculation on my part again, more or less. I on yahoo answers it was somewhere around 1.5 million a month from Cena alone, but like I said above, it can't be confirmed. If that was the case, it'd likely be a bigger number than UFC's, whose high when it comes to merchandise sales at a PPV event, which is the bulk of the number, is only around 500,000. Like I said though, a lot of speculation involved.

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100804125351AAEmmcg

    http://www.mmamania.com/2010/3/1/1331981/ufc-110-brings-in-540000-in

    I never disputed that the UFC is growing while the WWE is declining (slightly) as far as PPV numbers go, but as I've already said, there's nothing to suggest that there's correlation between the two.


    How do internal problems not count when it comes to trying to explain why the WWE has been declining over the past few years? They are by far the most important issues you should be concerened with. If you're talking simply about outside threats, TNA, Monday Night Football, and popular network TV shows in general are all bigger threats. Just look what's happened to the Raw rating over the last few weeks.

    The Lost series finale, which got 13.5 million viewers, ran head to head with Over the Limit this year. I'd say that was kind of a big deal.

    I'm pretty sure UFC is way more violent than WWE, especially at the moment. You're not seeing this in the WWE any time soon.

    [​IMG]

    Indeed. The schedules aren't the same though. UFC has 1 PPV a month and only 3 or 4 free TV events a year. The WWE has 4 shows every single week.

    Just becuase the UFC has high PPV numbers, it doesn't mean that is what's causing a slight decline in WWE's PPV numbers. I've already said this like a million times.

    I never argued that UFC isn't getting higher buyrates. I've been arguing that this doesn't mean the UFC is the cause of the WWE's problems. Look above you and you'll see I've made this point 84 times already.
    Speciality sport its not that special that you can kick someone ass inside a cage.So this point like one of your other point is flawed.

    Some of the writer's personal notes that he forgot to delete. You should fell lucky being allowed to read them.

    1. It was never proven in this debate who had the merchandise advantage.

    2. I've already adressed the PPV thing.

    The same point I've made again and again applies here, as does the fact that UFC 100 was the only UFC event to beat Wrestlemania last year. Meaning, Wrestlemania has a higher buyrate than 12 out of 13 UFC PPVs. You can't make it seem like the Wrestlemania just got it's ass kicked when it beat over 92% of UFC PPVs last year.

    Anyway, to wrap this up, there's no disputing UFC PPV numbers are higher, on average, but there is absoultely nothing out there to show that the WWE has been completely dominated by the UFC, or that there's any correlation between the current paths of the two companies.
     
  10. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    youngbullzeye, please stick to arguing the topic at hand, and don't try to rebut your opponent by telling him that he's "full of himself." Also, don't go straight into rebuttals; make an opening argument. I came away with nothing from this debate, to be honest. I was looking for solid reasons for why WWE should consider UFC competition, and I got none.

    Final Score
    GD - 5
    youngbullzeye - 0
     
  11. Phoenix

    Phoenix WZCW's First Triple Crown Champion

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    Tdigs summed up what I felt about this debate. Focus on your responses and keeping the topic at hand, don't insult your opponent and tell him what he's doing wrong because that's what you're doing wrong here. Disarray gets a default set from me.

    Final Score
    youngbullzeye: 0
    Disarray: 5
     
  12. Miko

    Miko WATCHA GONNA DO, BROTHER!?

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    Disregarding valid points, going off topic, and ranting pretty incoherently, whats gotten into you GD?

    Seriously, I read the whole debate, and once again I saw posts with valid points in them from youngbullzeye, in the process he just ignored GD's points about wrestling and UFC being different markets, the attitude era fans watch UFC now for the same reason they watched wrestling then, because its cool, I dont believe you argued this at all.

    GD - 5
    youngbullzeye - 0
     
  13. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    youngbullzeye, debates are not personal. While you may take your opponents' remarks at times as being sarcastic, hurtful, or abrasive, it's all in good fun. But if you choose to rebut with comments like "You're so full of yourself", you'd better make sure you back those comments up with subject matter that supports your side of the debate... especially against a great debater like GD.

    Final Score
    GD: 5
    youngbullzeye: 0
     
  14. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    After a complete judge's tally, GD is the victor with 20 points to youngbullzeye's 0.
     
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