Round 4: youngbullzeye -vs- jmt225

Discussion in 'Debater's League 2010' started by D-Man, Aug 22, 2010.

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  1. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    The Wrestling Industry is haunted by having a high death rate of young athletes. Is there any way to decrease this rate or is this a risk that cannot be changed?

    This is a fourth round match in the Debater's League. Youngbullzeye is the home debater and gets to choose which side of the debate they will be on and who debates first, but they have 24 hours to make their choice.

    This thread is for DEBATERS ONLY and will end on Friday at 2pm EST.

    Anyone that posts in this thread besides the debaters, league admins, and judges will be infracted!

    Good luck.​
     
  2. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    As home i while chose that a risk that cannot be changed jmt225 besy of luck bro and you can go first (sorry i took long to reply was on vacation)
     
  3. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Sure it can change.

    Is the sport violent? Yes. Does it damage the body? Absolutely. However, that does not mean there aren't ways to make it easier for the workers and give them every possible chance there is to live a long, healthy life.

    First of all, before I mention my idea for how to accomplish this, let me state there have been PLENTY of wrestlers throughout history who've worked the most grueling schedule known to man and lived well into their 60's, 70's, and 80's. Take Terry Funk, for example. The man worked the territory days when working during the territory days was a 6-day a week job. And by the time he was 50-years-old, he was working some of the most brutal matches throughout wrestling history in companies like ECW and FMW. Today, he is 66, and still going strong. He is full proof that you can survive this business, no matter how hard it is.

    All that said... there is a problem. Some guys just cannot handle being on the road so long non-stop. However, in my opinion, there is a system you could incorporate to make life a lot easier for wrestlers....

    An optional 2 month vacation for each wrestler every year.

    I strongly believe the hardest thing about the business is that it's non-stop, every year. Unless you get injured, you get NO time off. Literally, none. The body needs to be able to rejuvenate itself.

    Will it hurt the business to give certain wrestlers time off? You can make an argument, but if you know how to book professional wrestling, then it wouldn't hurt it a single bit.

    Listen, the fact is... the body is not made to get beat up night-in and night-out. For professional wrestlers, there are just some that can't handle their bodies being slammed 4/5 days a week. They just can't take it. But, if they were able to get 2 months off every year to just rest up and let the bumps and bruises fully heal, then I truly believe they'd be able to handle the schedule of this business has, and it would most definitely decrease the death rate among most wrestlers.

    WWE is already taking the steps in drug testing, offering free rehabs, and no chair shots to the head; now, all they have to do is give their wrestlers a vacation every year to let their bodies heal up, and boom.... they're literally doing every single thing they can to decrease the death rate in the business. Until they do literally everything they can do, then you cannot say that it's impossible for the death rate in the business to decrease, because that's a statement that is still unproven.
     
  4. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    Ok i think i will attack the pionts that you wrote to defend your arguement.

    Ok you are right but correct me if i am wrong ECW was mainly where... Philadelphia now he didnt have to travel all over the world as the WWE does. I'm preety sure that those plane rides and also wrestling that night take a big toll on your body.As you said they wrestle 4/5 days a week now imagine that for 52 weeks lets do the math and you can say they wrestle about 204-256 matches a year i dont know about you but to me that is a big number.Now lets say that some happens to get hurt in one of those matches what do they give them to relive the pain.....you got it PAINKILLERS baby.Now lets say that 3/5 wrestlers get addicted to painkillers i dont think i have to draw you the picture but lots of bad stuff can happen if you get addicted.

    Exactly you see i didnt even have to tell you some wrestlers cant handle the road but also they can't handle the pressure and what is an easy way to become better fast hey lets ask Arod and he says steriods yeah now lets look at bentoit this happened to him and what happened he killed 3 young people now steriods were not the whole point but also the chair shots.

    Well lets see what it is

    I'm not gonna lie this is a good idea but this would still not help the fact that they can die young.Ok lets say that they do get to months off i will say that is about 32 less matches you would still have maybe around 160+ matches left and that is still a high number.For you to get hurt.

    I will agree with you again it is a hard business.But you said it your selfif you get injured what happens painkillers and if you want to stay with the good body you have and with all the muscle you guessed it STEROIDS again.

    I would make an arguement but that is not what D-Man asked.

    I agree with you again the body is not ment to be beaten up day in and day out.That would be great in a perfect world but it isn't they wrestling business is very demanding and unless you are injured or a very established superstar there preety much no way in hell you are going to get 2 months off.

    Now i do like that that they are doing this but what started for them to do this you got it my friend because wrestlers were dying YOUNG.Like i said before it aint a perfect world to get 2 months off.Actually you can try all you want bro but you got to face the facts there is always going to be wrestlers that die young there is now way to stop it like racism there will always be racism in this world and why..because it is not a perfect world dude you are awsome at guessing :worship:
     
  5. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    False.

    When Funk was wrestling in ECW, he was also wrestling in Japan and on other Independent shows.

    Also, did you forget that Funk worked that WWE and WCW schedule after he left ECW in the late nineties?

    Well, that's why I suggested the 2 month vacation idea. It would take a lot off that schedule and give the wrestlers much needed rest.

    Maybe back in the day, but today WWE has made painkillers illegal, so yeah... this point holds no authority.

    Yeah, wrestlers from yesterday's generation. However, WWE each day is making it clear that that's not the case with them anymore. Fuck man, they're pushing guys like Danielson and Punk... could you ever imagine either of those two getting a push in the nineties and before? Absolutely not, and why? Because of their size. However, today... WWE is focusing more on talent than they are size, and years from now people will look at this as the turning point for wrestlers as far as early deaths are concerned.

    I didn't know A-Rod was a professional wrestler?

    Not saying I even agree with this point, but let's say you're correct... what generation did Benoit come from? Oh, that's right... the one where he had to bulk up to get notice. That's not how it is today though, man.

    Yes it would. 2 month vacation would be HUGE for the wrestlers health.

    If someone only works one match a year there's a chance of them getting injured, so that's not a fair argument.

    The point is these guys are professionals at what they do and they do know how to protect themselves in the ring; however, bumps and bruises add up and these guys get NO TIME off. That's the problem. They get 2 days off a week if they're lucky, and a week off for Christmas I believe. That's not enough time to let the body fully heal.

    But today you don't have do those things, man. In fact, as I said earlier... WWE has made it against company policy to take part in drugs like that.

    I know, which is sad. However, my point is that if they did get that vacation... then that would help tremendously.

    Lance Cade was the only WWE wrestler to die since Benoit, and he had other notorious health problems that had nothing to do with the drugs he took. Did they help? Of course not, but it was a different situation.

    Dude, the question for the debate on my side is if there is any way to decrease the death rate in professional wrestling, and a 2 month vacation is my suggestion. Don't say that this will never happen... tell me why it wouldn't work.
     
  6. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    Ok i told you to correct me if i was wrong and i was im only human:confused:

    It would give them a much needed rest but let me ask you something some wrestlers are accustomed to a way of life of booze(see Scott Hall) and/or drugs.While they are on the road now not all wrestlers but there is the occasional bunch that does this.And it tends to be the young one because they are still getting accustomed to the way of life.Booze can really fuck up a person sadly my uncle passed away this summer because of alcholism and he isn't a wrestler he wasn't out on the road for most of the year going to parties and such like most young wrestlers tend to do.Drugs is preety self explanatory just like booze you get addicted and you just cant stop.

    Maybe Punk but not Danielson.So just because they start giving a push to "smaller" people means that this means steriods will play no games in wrestlers dying young that because they are giving "smaller" wrestlers push this is what will save young wrestlers dying.

    It would help but not tremendously as you put it.Maybe a year or two but no one knows for sure.



    Now you are correct here but at the top it does not say WWE it says wrestling industry and the industry does not revolve around the WWE.I really would love to put a list here but i just cant with the time and im tired from FB practice maybe tommorow i will look for a list.

    Im not saying it will never happen as a saying in the wrestling industry never say never but it is a long way for a 2 months vacation especially if you are not a main eventer.As i put in one of the other post on here.If they do get two months they might not all but they will be on drugs booze your choice.

    Now your turn.
    (Hey by the way this looks like a preety good debate)
     
  7. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Dude, I completely agree with you, but again... I refute this point by mentioning that Scott Hall came from a completely different era from the workers today.

    Besides, how many wrestlers today have you heard about having alcohol problems anyway?

    Some wrestlers will take steroids, no doubt, but for one... that's a personal choice; it's not something they NEED to do like yesteryear. And for two, taking steroids is really not the ultimate cause of death to these wrestlers. Does it play apart? Sure, but only to those who ABUSE them, not simply take them. There are plenty of wrestlers I'm sure who've lived well into their 50s and 60s who have had experience with steroids.

    Fair point, but outside of WWE... that's where it really doesn't matter if you're "big" or not, so that takes away the steroid argument.

    Moreover, outside of WWE... guys don't have the same schedule WWE wrestlers do, so that takes the "on the road 250 days a year" out of your argument as well.

    But it's not guaranteed that they will go to alcohol, is it? I mean, really.. who was the last wrestler you hear have an alcohol problem in the business? I guarantee it's no one from this generation. The only thing is Randy Orton, supposedly, going on a couple of drunken rages, but that's literally it.
     
  8. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    Ok then if you want to stay with this era ok fine with me.But on a side note people dont die from alcholism they die cause of failed organs also something like aids you dont die of aids you die because it weakens your body.

    Ok sure steriods isn't the ultimate case of deaths but when you here that someone dies they usally will say that they either had drugs or something else in thier system.

    Ok so it does take the steriod arguement but here i can put the drug arguemnet.Lets take a look at a very young wrestler that has died this year his name Trent Acid.Never seen any of his work but how did he die of an overdose now in the main wrestling show like WWE or TNA you dont see people die as much as they did and it being related to drugs.Now independents that is more predictable.

    That is true i havent really heard of people having alcohol problems.You have to remeber like you said in one of your other post you only need one.One day of drinking alot and it is bye-bye.
     
  9. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    Trent Acid was addicted to HEROIN. How many wrestlers have you heard be addicted to heroin, man? Hardly any, right? The business has absolutely nothing to do with Trent's troubles. From all accounts he had a very rough up-bringing and just fell into drugs early on. You absolutely cannot blame the business for his death... he most likely would have headed down that road regardless. Hell, maybe pro wrestling added an extra few years to his life, you never know.

    Yeah, but has that ever happened to any wrestler before in the business? No, so why should I believe it's going to happen to someone from this generation?
     
  10. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    Thats not the piont though of which wrestlers are addicted to what what im trying to point out is that it is very easy to get drugs.Now just because you dont hear on the news that someone is addicted to crack cocaine does that mean that they aren't addicted Hell No.

    Yeah but i was trying to say was booze,drugs,shit like that you something that can damge your body.And to answer why is because in this day in time it is WAY i mean WAY easier to get drugs in this generation than in the ones past.
     
  11. jmt225

    jmt225 Global Moderator

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    But dude... it's easy for ANYONE to get drugs. You know, I'm sure NBA players can get drugs whenever they'd like, but they're not dropping like dead flies, are they? No, because just because someone has access to something does not mean that they will use it.

    Yeah, but today's generation are filled with video game nerds and people like that... not the wild 80s and 90s guys who partied hard every single night. That's not today's generation of wrestlers. Seriously, can you picture guys like AJ Styles, Edge, Samoa Joe, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, Jack Swagger, Christian, etc. etc. etc. acting like Jake Roberts and Scott Hall? Absolutely you cannot.

    To end this, I'll just say that yes.. it is entirely possible for the death rate of pro wrestling decreasing as the years go by, as long they (specifically in WWE) start getting some more vacation time. And even if they don't... there's no reason to believe that the stars of today 10/20 years from now will be dropping anywhere near as frequently as the wrestlers rose in the nineties and before. WWE has made way too many recent changes to show that they absolutely do not want that to be happening come that time, and all they're missing for their goal to be complete, in my opinion, is more vacation time for their wrestlers.
     
  12. youngbullzeye

    youngbullzeye Occasional Pre-Show

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    OK the first part of people being nerds i won't get into thats off the topic.What you like to put though is that could you imagine today superstars this and that but let me ask you could you imagine if someone told you,that you had cancer.No.Unless someone close to you would no.So you saying that you cant imagine them doing this i would agree IF you were with them constantly but your not so that point is no good.

    I will end the debate by stating that there is no way that you are evering going to stop wrestlers dying young.There will always be a handful of wrestlers that die young.That is just a fact of life and if you cant see this then your are not living in the real world.
     
  13. Phoenix

    Phoenix WZCW's First Triple Crown Champion

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    Clarity of debate: jmt225
    No opening argument from ybe, lack of a round up too from both, but jmt225 kept it to a debating form. Also feel that ybe kept losing track at times which jmt brought back.

    Punctuality: youngbullzeyes
    Despite neither exceeding 24 hours, ybe was responding within 2 hours of jmt's which were about 22 hours later.

    Informative: jmt225
    jmt was right on the money with the info, correcting ybe's information and strengthening his cause.

    Persuasion: jmt225
    This debate seemed to die day towards the end but once jmt was out of the docks, he kept maintaining and going. I'll give credit to youngbulleyez, it's not easy to debate against some like jmt, but he did well. But jmt had me convinced and gave solid reasons while also countering his opposition very well. The only advice I can say to youngbulleyez is while it is nice to be quick and responsive to jmt, remember to read what he has said and be solid with your points and use information to back it up.

    Final Score
    youngbulleyez: 1
    jmt225: 4
     
  14. Miko

    Miko WATCHA GONNA DO, BROTHER!?

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    Clarity: jmt225 easily had the clearer debate on this one, I found youngbullzeye a little bit hard to follow, if it's true that he was responding within 2 hours of jmt's posts then I'd suggest that he should make as much use of his 24 hours as possible to make his posts easier to read.

    Point - jmt225

    Punctuality: Apparently both within their timeframe, so I am going to split it

    Point - Split

    Informative: From the start he pointed out a flaw in youngbullzeye's argument about Terry Funk, while the amusing way youngbullzeye took it made me chuckle the points still got to go to jmt

    Point - jmt225

    Persuasion: jmt did have the more persuasive argument, youngbullzeye came across as rushed and let himself down alot really, so it's jmt's point

    My score;

    youngbulleye: 0.5
    jmt225: 4.5
     
  15. Cena's Little Helper

    Cena's Little Helper Mid-Card Championship Winner

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    youngbullzeye, I feel horrible for not getting to these debates sooner, as it seems to me like you have a lot of potential. However, you made one fatal flaw in this debate that results in your not receiving points from my score: never, EVER come into a debate unsure of your information. Furthermore, never ask your opponent to correct you if you are wrong. Confidence in your argument is key here, as is research (it only takes about 30 minutes of research to competently argue any side of a debate in this league).

    I know you're a young guy, but, should you compete in this league again, please take my advice to heart.

    Final Score
    jmt225: 5
    youngbullzeye: 0
     
  16. CH David

    CH David A Jock That Loves Pepsi

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    Clarity: JMT gets the point. Good opener, which trumped the lack of one from youngbullzeye.

    Point: jmt225

    Punctuality: Neither were late.

    Point: Split

    Informative: JMT actually corrected young, that alone gets the point. He also helped his own cause with it. Good shit.

    Point: jmt225

    Persuasion: JMT all the way. Not once did I feel that JMT was flustered at all. He kept countering each response youngbullzeye had.

    Points: jmt225

    CH David scores this jmt225 4.5, youngbullzeye 0.5.
     
  17. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

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    After a complete judge's tally, jmt225 is the victor with 18 points to youngbullzeye's 2.

    Congratulations and great debating from the both of you!
     
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