Ratings for yesterday's Raw 8/17/15

[Spidey Revivey]

I simply cannot understand how a grown man can like a 38 year old who dresses like a 7 year old boy and reiterates the same formula most of the time.

I'm glad we are in agreement about Brock Lesnar at least.

 

[Bernkastel]

I'm bored to tears by most of John Cena's stuff. He's the best professional wrestler in the world by a very wide margin, though, and I'm not going to try to deny that. Mostly because I'm not a fucking moron.

Exactly. It took me a while to come around on Punk's stuff, mainly because he WAS pretty boring for a few years, but past 2011 it couldn't be denied that the man had talent. Up until he decided to take his ball and leave I considered him to be one of my favorites at the time.

 

[braveh]

In fairness, CM Punk was grossly overrated back in 2006.

CM Punk had many good matches in WWE: Against Chris Jericho, against Vince McMahon, against Ryback.

However, his matches against John Cena and Daniel Bryan are vastly overrated in my subjective opinion. And in reality, the summer of 2011 and spring of 2012 was his time to step up and prove himself and he didn't do that in the ring or outside the ring...

 

[Crocker]

Again with the third grade retorts. Why don't YOU marry him?

Yeah, I'm sure...

You call people idiots. Thats a 3rd grade insult, so its an eye for an eye. Also why would I marry him? You're the one constantly sucking his dick. If he hits a child I bet you would STILL defend him.

What does reddit have to do with intelligent discussion? You're a moron, everyone here knows it.

You're trying to prove that I am a dumbass by posting a meaningless poll and appeal to all your fans (Cena-marks).. well I'll post somewhere else where there are more objective people and I'll prove who is the more intelligent person.

And you're not objective. At all.

Yes I am. You on the other hand are not.

No one cares if you like him. We're not talking about if you want him to tickle the back of your throat with his penis. We're talking about his quality.

His in ring work and mic skills are one of the best.. but his character work? Absolutely terrible. No character development in the past 10 years. Look at any successful TV show like Walking Dead, game of Thronesor Breaking Bad, the main characters progress very well. These shows are very well perceived due to how they change things up by developing the character and constantly making new storylines. Why is it that these shows draw 10+ million when WWE is only drawing 3.5 million? Please don't say it is because of "illegal streaming" because ALL shows are affected by this, which evens the odds.

No one has drawn more money over the last decade than Cena. You trying to claim otherwise is a non-starter.

Many factors have contributed to this; The Rock leaving the company, Lesnar quitting in 2004, Daniel Bryan's injury proneness. Punk leaving in 2014, etc..

No, I'm literally saying the fact he's easily the biggest draw in the company proves he isn't stale.

No he isn't.. The Rock, Lesnar, Steve Austin, and Hogan are. Cena is one of the top 5 draws, but not THE biggest draw. He can't SINGLEHANDEDLY boost ratings like these 5 can. Just look at the 1st post of this thread. Why did ratings decrease?

Facts, son, facts.

Why ignore the fact that Royal Rumble 2013 headlined by Punk vs Rock drew the largest in 5 years?

No, I'm presenting facts as facts.

Sure you are, you selectively ignore the facts that are too hard to rebute against, such as the Justin Bieber comparison and the Royal Rumble 2013 buyrate. Nice try

No, I call idiots idiots. I don't care if you disagree with me, people disagree with me all the time who don't get called idiots. But if you're an idiot, I'm going to call you an idiot.

"3rd grade insults"

Because it is professional wrestling. People like a 50+ year old who dressed like an undertaker and supposedly shoots lightning from his fingertips. It's pro wrestling.

When is the last time that undertaker did that? "shooting lightning from fingertips" isn't a huge part of his character. Also he is part time so we don't tire of him as easily.

No it's not. People don't pay money for someone who isn't entertaining.

The people that DO like him pay more money than the people who dont like him.

So Cena appeals to the people the WWE wants to appeal to. Got it.

Sure, you can say that. But you're delusional if you say that the majority find him entertaining.

Yes, it does.

No it doesnt. Go back to school.

Yes, a large percentage of them do. Trying to argue otherwise is naive.


Do you really think MITB with Punk vs. Cena would have been as effective if it had been Punk vs. Jericho? Do you think ONS 06 sells the same if it's RVD vs. Big Show?



People pay to watch Cena. People care about Cena. He's the most entertaining, which is why he makes the most money.

Look at the Justin Bieber comparison.. his net worth is $200 million despite many many YouTube dislikes and a vocal LARGE majority who absolutely despise him. Now 2pac's net worth is $40 million, while he is liked by about 90% of people.. being the most entertaining does not equal making the most money.

No, it concluded the 2nd hour and overran into the 3rd hour. Try again, sport.

Why give that credit to Cena? Rollins, HHH, Steph, and Cena were all there..

 

[Crocker]

So no response Slyfox? You were the one who wanted me to argue with you in the first place. I still remember this quote

I suppose that is your way of saying, "I know you are right and there's no way for me to get around the facts which makes Crocker look stupid".

I guess when facts don't go your way, resort to third grade retorts. Good for you.

 

[Slyfox696]

CM Punk had many good matches in WWE: Against Chris Jericho, against Vince McMahon, against Ryback.

No.

However, his matches against John Cena and Daniel Bryan are vastly overrated in my subjective opinion. And in reality, the summer of 2011 and spring of 2012 was his time to step up and prove himself and he didn't do that in the ring or outside the ring...

His matches against Cena were of very high quality and I'd have to see Bryan match again to decide, as I don't remember it now.

I agree with you that he did not step up and become the superstar he could have been. And that's no one else's fault but Punk's.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Why give that credit to Cena? Rollins, HHH, Steph, and Cena were all there..

Such a HHH, Steph and Rollins apologist.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

My point is that there an endless amount of people who constantly defend Cena because he's the biggest draw and such a big money maker.. well i'm trying to tell yall that nothing lasts forever; Cena's drawing power won't last forever. And this is a good example of it.

This certainly disproves every single metric that can be used to gauge money making and success that Cena has surpassed and upheld for well over a decade now, including a network which was the first of its kind that rakes in millions of dollars.



You are not a garden variety idiot. but a truly special individual.


Matter of fact, you have officially jumped the shark with me not thinking you are a troll. Its not plausible that someone could be as willfully stupid as you.

 

[Slyfox696]

You call people idiots.

I call idiots idiots.

Thats a 3rd grade insult

No it isn't, it's an apt description for people like you. You understand I don't call you an idiot because I'm wanting to hurt your feelings, right? I call you an idiot because you are showing little to no cognitive reasoning.

I don't cast it your way as an insult, but rather an accurate description of you.

Also why would I marry him?

Because I suspect between the two of us, you're the only one not married yet? Because you seem to be obsessed with him by talking about him constantly? Because it was your retort in the first place and I was merely mocking you by using it in return?

Take your pick.

You're trying to prove that I am a dumbass by posting a meaningless poll

It's not a meaningless poll. It's a highly scientific poll posted in the Bar Room of an Internet wrestling forum. It's findings are indisputable. And it has found you are, indeed, a moron.

and appeal to all your fans (Cena-marks)

Oh, I don't have many fans on this forum. During my time here far more people dislike me than like me. It just so happens those same people agree you are a moron.

.. well I'll post somewhere else where there are more objective people and I'll prove who is the more intelligent person.

And what makes them "more objective"? The fact they are more likely to agree with you in your blind Cena hatred?

Yes I am. You on the other hand are not.

You're blaming a rating which was only slightly below the summer's best rating on a man who headlined the best hour of the show, the hour which beat out every other hour of last week's show.

You're not objective. You're an idiot.

His in ring work and mic skills are one of the best.. but his character work? Absolutely terrible. No character development in the past 10 years.

Oh, so John Cena is still a white rapping gangsta who is an unpolished brawling Marine?

No? You mean his character is now one of a seasoned veteran and mentor with a long running history of great showings in big matches, a character he could not POSSIBLY have played ten years ago?

Like I said, you're an idiot.

Look at any successful TV show like Walking Dead

Okay...In what way has ANY character on Walking Dead changed, aside from Rick and Carol?

No, I like the Walking Dead very much, but character progression is not one of their strong suits. Daryl is still the unrefined redneck, Glen is STILL the scout/gatherer, Maggie (who has lost both her sisters and watched her father be decapitated) still just trudges along like always...if you don't think Cena's character, which has evolved tremendously over the years, hasn't changed then you cannot use Walking Dead as a talking point.

game of Thrones

Game of Thrones was far too boring for me to watch, but from what I understand every just gets murdered anyways. I doubt there's much character development from the dead people.

or Breaking Bad, the main characters progress very well.

Walter White is a great example of why you are wrong.

You think Cena's character is the same because the WWE didn't just one day tell you "Hey, Cena is a different person now". In other words, you don't understand the subtlety behind the transformation of Cena's character over the years.

How do you think the audiences would have accepted Walter White making the type of transformation you seem to have wanted for Cena? What if, at the end of the season 1, when Tuco finished beating the guy to death, instead of having a scared and horrified expression on his face, the meek and mild science teacher just whipped out a gun and blew everyone away, becoming the overnight heel so many people (and I suspect you) want Cena to be? How would viewers have responded to that?

You don't understand nuances of characters if you think John Cena is the same character now as he was ten years ago.

Why is it that these shows draw 10+ million when WWE is only drawing 3.5 million? Please don't say it is because of "illegal streaming" because ALL shows are affected by this, which evens the odds.

Because Breaking Bad airs roughly 12.5 hours of original television a year for roughly 5 years. The WWE will air roughly 12.5 hours of original television THIS WEEK.

The WWE airs about 30 hours of original television a MONTH and has aired original programming for DECADES. Do you really not see the difference?

Many factors have contributed to this; The Rock leaving the company, Lesnar quitting in 2004

Possibly, but so? It doesn't change the fact Cena HAS been the biggest moneymaker the last ten years. Furthermore, if Rock and Brock had stayed that doesn't mean Cena still wouldn't have been the biggest moneymaker.

Daniel Bryan's injury proneness. Punk leaving in 2014, etc..

Neither man came close to Cena's moneymaking ability. You saying otherwise is foolish. If I remember correctly, Cena made up a ridiculous percentage (I want to say roughly 40%) of merchandise sales in 2004 as a MIDCARDER.

No he isn't.. The Rock, Lesnar, Steve Austin, and Hogan are.

Those men are not full timers in the company. Hogan has been fired and erased from the company, Austin's primary involvement is a video podcast on the Network, Rock hasn't worked a match since his last match with Cena and Lesnar works only sporadically and doesn't do the house show circuit like Cena.

Cena is easily the biggest draw in the company.

Just look at the 1st post of this thread. Why did ratings decrease?

Because the Lesnar/Undertaker segment couldn't retain the audience of the Cena segment? Cena's hour drew the highest ratings, so I'm not exactly sure what the hell you're talking about.

Which is convenient, because you don't either.

Why ignore the fact that Royal Rumble 2013 headlined by Punk vs Rock drew the largest in 5 years?

Because Rock vs. Cena blew that number away at Wrestlemania and the Rock isn't a full time wrestler. He's worked what, 5 (?) matches in the last ten years? How is he at all relevant in this discussion?

I mean, what's your point here? That Cena isn't easily the biggest moneymaker in the company because a movie star who works an average of 1 match every two years saw an 8.7% increase in buyrates on the third biggest show of the year? Is that REALLY your argument?

No one is arguing that Rock isn't a draw or that Lesnar doesn't draw. Obviously they do. But Cena is ALSO a draw and he does it every Monday night and two or three times a week on the house show circuit.

Sure you are, you selectively ignore the facts that are too hard to rebute against, such as the Justin Bieber comparison and the Royal Rumble 2013 buyrate.

I don't even know what Bieber thing you're talking about and your Royal Rumble "fact" was stupid, as I've already pointed out.

When is the last time that undertaker did that?

Umm...it is LITERALLY his name. He is "The Undertaker". He dresses very similarly to how he's always dressed, right down to the coat and hat.

If you don't understand why a professional wrestler dresses himself in bright colors and works to appeal to a demographic even you agree is most likely to hand over money to the WWE, then you obviously do not understand professional wrestling.

"shooting lightning from fingertips" isn't a huge part of his character.

But he does it. And he has done it. And references to it are prominently displayed in his intro videos.

Also he is part time so we don't tire of him as easily.

Wait, wait, wait...are you saying that, because he's part time, people are going to be even more interested in watching him when he does wrestle?

Hmm...that's an interesting thought...I wonder if there's a way to apply that to your ridiculous argument about the Rock...

The people that DO like him pay more money than the people who dont like him.

So now you're saying Cena isn't the biggest moneymaking draw because people who aren't paying money to the company anyways don't like him?

Do you even understand how stupid you sound right now? At the end of the day, Cena is always one of the biggest, if not the biggest, attractions to nearly every show the WWE promotes. He has shown himself time and again to be a huge moneymaker/draw. If people aren't entertained by you, they are not going to pay to see you.

You could not be more wrong and could not display a more fundamentally flawed understanding of how professional wrestling works.

No it doesnt. Go back to school.

Yes, it does. If Cena wasn't the most entertaining, then people wouldn't pay more money to watch him than anyone else. This is basic logic and you telling me to go back to school is incredibly ironic given your obvious lack of basic logic.

Look at the Justin Bieber comparison.. his net worth is $200 million despite many many YouTube dislikes and a vocal LARGE majority who absolutely despise him. Now 2pac's net worth is $40 million, while he is liked by about 90% of people.. being the most entertaining does not equal making the most money.

Music and professional wrestling are NOTHING alike, aside from they both exist in the entertainment medium. You could not be making a worse comparison if you compared classical music to rap.

Why give that credit to Cena? Rollins, HHH, Steph, and Cena were all there..

Yes, they were there...so why is it you are blaming Cena for the show's rating being slightly less than last week's best summer rating but not them?

Good job on being a hypocrite. When the rating is good, it's because of Rollins, HHH and Steph being there with Cena. When the rating is bad, it's because of Cena.

Thank you for proving you have no objectivity.

So no response Slyfox?

I have a life, son. One of these days you should try to get one, it's great. For example, yesterday I got to visit my mother, take my wife to eat BBQ, stock up on snacks for our Summerslam party for the friends we have coming over (don't worry, I'm sure you'll get friends someday too) and play with my new puppy.

I'm sorry if responding to an idiot spouting off his ignorance wasn't as high on my list of things to do. Actually, I'm not sorry at all.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Because I suspect between the two of us, you're the only one not married yet?

Tears.


Streaming down my face.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

No he isn't.. The Rock, Lesnar, Steve Austin, and Hogan are. Cena is one of the top 5 draws, but not THE biggest draw.

Funny you use this example, since he is twice the worker and has drawn WAY more money than any of the above mentioned have.



Why do they boost ratings? Maybe because they only show up once in a blue moon?


Duh?

 

[JGlass]

Wait... did he just compare WWE programming to Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad?

I'm finally seeing the usefulness of the phrase, "I can't even."

 

[Slyfox696]

Wait... did he just compare WWE programming to Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad?

I'm finally seeing the usefulness of the phrase, "I can't even."

The best part is how his comparison not only didn't prove his point, it proved the exact opposite of his point.

What an idiot. I'm not surprised 100% of the people on this forum not named Crocker thinks Crocker is an idiot, according to the latest polling data. Which, as I said, is a highly scientific poll in the Bar Room of an Internet Wrestling forum and cannot be disputed.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

A few points:

The third hour almost always draws less viewers due to, and I'm really just guessing, the younger audience going to bed...?

The fact that people both love and hate John Cena is why he draws so much. It's a defining characteristic of being polarizing. Shit, Crocker is obsessed with him and hangs on everything he does. Yet he insists he hates him. He doesn't hate him. He loves to hate him. Also, using the "half the audience boos him" argument is stupid. At first, the "Cena sucks" chants were the "cool" thing to do. Now it's just part of the show and only adds to Cena's character.

While sports are often a bad analogy with wrestling, it's along the same lines of why so many stories are printed about the Yankees or Patriots. It gets clicks. People either love them or hate them, but they're drawn in to read and/or talk about them. Check the comment sections. They're packed.

 

[Miko]

And just to make things clear, the reason I am so hateful of Cena is because of his marks who overpraise him, like Slyfox, Bernkastel, and Spidamite. I understand that Cena is tremendously talented, but he has his flaws, but people like Slyfox delusional deny his flaws, such as his corny stale character, and his booking is just awful. For every hateful person, there are 3 Cena super marks.. at least thats how it is in this forum. Me, BSE, KB, and probably a few others are one of the only logical people who can look at things objectively here.

Fuck, even I feel bad for him that that you've lumped KB into your littlw group.

Good to see Sly going for it again though.

 

[Crocker]

I call idiots idiots.

And I tell delusional Cena lovers like you to go marry him

No it isn't, it's an apt description for people like you. You understand I don't call you an idiot because I'm wanting to hurt your feelings, right? I call you an idiot because you are showing little to no cognitive reasoning.

And I'm calling you a Cena apologist because you are a damn mark for him who can't look at things objectively

I don't cast it your way as an insult, but rather an accurate description of you.

Same here

Because I suspect between the two of us, you're the only one not married yet? Because you seem to be obsessed with him by talking about him constantly? Because it was your retort in the first place and I was merely mocking you by using it in return?

What relevance does being married have? Nope YOU'RE the one obsessed. With such a seemingly busy and social life you live, you sure take your time to come to Cena's rescue every time someone criticizes him. I've seen your psots before, the only things you post are about non-wrestling stuff, but the time you do post about wrestling stuff, its to come to your hero, Cena's rescue.

It's not a meaningless poll. It's a highly scientific poll posted in the Bar Room of an Internet wrestling forum. It's findings are indisputable. And it has found you are, indeed, a moron.

Its a highly subjective poll thats what it is.. its a fucking popularity contest that doesnt prove shit. Just because people dont like me does not mean that i am the moron.

Oh, I don't have many fans on this forum. During my time here far more people dislike me than like me. It just so happens those same people agree you are a moron.

Sure you don't; thats why your league of Cena apologists come here to gang on me..

And what makes them "more objective"? The fact they are more likely to agree with you in your blind Cena hatred?

No, its the fact that they can recognize Cena's pros (in ring work, mic work) yet realize his flaws (stale character) rather than praise him for every single thing he does and treat him like a God.

You're blaming a rating which was only slightly below the summer's best rating on a man who headlined the best hour of the show, the hour which beat out every other hour of last week's show.

I like how you gave all the credit to ONE person when there were 3 other people (Rollins, Steph, HHH) on the segment.

You're not objective. You're an idiot.

Thats what you are. Aren't these "3rd grade insults" getting tiring?

Oh, so John Cena is still a white rapping gangsta who is an unpolished brawling Marine?

Those were literally his only 2 characters.

No? You mean his character is now one of a seasoned veteran and mentor with a long running history of great showings in big matches, a character he could not POSSIBLY have played ten years ago?

You call that character development? By turning from a rookie into a seasoned veteran? You truly do not know what character development is. You're saying that Glenn and Daryl did not develop their characters but Cena somehow did? Them double standards

Like I said, you're an idiot.

Your insults are getting staler than Cena's character.

Okay...In what way has ANY character on Walking Dead changed, aside from Rick and Carol?

No, I like the Walking Dead very much, but character progression is not one of their strong suits. Daryl is still the unrefined redneck, Glen is STILL the scout/gatherer, Maggie (who has lost both her sisters and watched her father be decapitated) still just trudges along like always...if you don't think Cena's character, which has evolved tremendously over the years, hasn't changed then you cannot use Walking Dead as a talking point.

Season 1 Daryl was very hotheaded; now he is a lot more calm. Season 1 Glenn was the comedic happy person; now he is a lot more serious after going out with Maggie. Maggie - agreed that she didn't receive much character progression. Michonne also progressed from a loner to Rick's left hand woman. Do you even watch the show if you say character progression isn't one of the strong suits? How can you say that Cena received character progression but Daryl and Glenn didn't? Double standards at its finest.

Game of Thrones was far too boring for me to watch, but from what I understand every just gets murdered anyways. I doubt there's much character development from the dead people.

You clearly don't watch the show and are just making assumptions.

Walter White is a great example of why you are wrong.

You think Cena's character is the same because the WWE didn't just one day tell you "Hey, Cena is a different person now". In other words, you don't understand the subtlety behind the transformation of Cena's character over the years.

You said before that Cena developed into a seasoned veteran with great matches.. I didn't know going from a rookie to a seasoned veteran is character development. You can say that for literally anything.

How do you think the audiences would have accepted Walter White making the type of transformation you seem to have wanted for Cena? What if, at the end of the season 1, when Tuco finished beating the guy to death, instead of having a scared and horrified expression on his face, the meek and mild science teacher just whipped out a gun and blew everyone away, becoming the overnight heel so many people (and I suspect you) want Cena to be? How would viewers have responded to that?

I never said Cena should just turn heel randomly. I agree that if Cena should turn heel, it should be extremely built up since it would be one of the biggest moments in WWE history.

You don't understand nuances of characters if you think John Cena is the same character now as he was ten years ago.

His character is the same as it was in 2007 when he established himself as the face of the company. He's the man that runs the place.. nothing has changed about that. He still preaches about hustle loyalty respect, and all these good deeds such as the Make-a-wish foundation, etc.. so what has changed? He transformed from a rookie to a seasoned veteran in 2005-2007, since that is your idea of "character development" i'll go along with you. From 2007-2015 its been the same ever since.

Because Breaking Bad airs roughly 12.5 hours of original television a year for roughly 5 years. The WWE will air roughly 12.5 hours of original television THIS WEEK.

The point is that those shows are constantly INCREASING, but WWE ratings are constantly DECREASING; ever wondered why?

The WWE airs about 30 hours of original television a MONTH and has aired original programming for DECADES. Do you really not see the difference?

I do see the difference but that doesn't excuse the ratings slowly increasing year by year.

Possibly, but so? It doesn't change the fact Cena HAS been the biggest moneymaker the last ten years. Furthermore, if Rock and Brock had stayed that doesn't mean Cena still wouldn't have been the biggest moneymaker.

If you compare one Cena appearance to one Rock appearance, who do you think would draw in more viewers?

Neither man came close to Cena's moneymaking ability. You saying otherwise is foolish. If I remember correctly, Cena made up a ridiculous percentage (I want to say roughly 40%) of merchandise sales in 2004 as a MIDCARDER.

Batista, Lesnar (in 2004), The Rock. Any of these guys ring a bell to you??

Those men are not full timers in the company. Hogan has been fired and erased from the company, Austin's primary involvement is a video podcast on the Network, Rock hasn't worked a match since his last match with Cena and Lesnar works only sporadically and doesn't do the house show circuit like Cena.

I know they aren't full timers Captain Obvious.. i'm trying to get it through your head that Cena is the biggest FULL TIME draw, but not the biggest draw of ALL TIME

Cena is easily the biggest draw in the company.

Then why can't he singlehandedly boost ratings like The Rock?

Because the Lesnar/Undertaker segment couldn't retain the audience of the Cena segment? Cena's hour drew the highest ratings, so I'm not exactly sure what the hell you're talking about.

You're kidding me right? The Lesnar/Undertaker segment ran into the overrun, which didn't isn't considered in the 3rd hour.. ratings breakdowns are no longer here for some reason so the only way to see the breakdowns is hour by hour, not segment by segment anymore.

Because Rock vs. Cena blew that number away at Wrestlemania and the Rock isn't a full time wrestler. He's worked what, 5 (?) matches in the last ten years? How is he at all relevant in this discussion?

Comparing a WrestleMania buyrate to a Royal Rumble buyrate is just laughable.

I mean, what's your point here? That Cena isn't easily the biggest moneymaker in the company because a movie star who works an average of 1 match every two years saw an 8.7% increase in buyrates on the third biggest show of the year? Is that REALLY your argument?

Nope, he drew the largest RR in 5 fucking years when the star power of the roster was at a very low point.

No one is arguing that Rock isn't a draw or that Lesnar doesn't draw. Obviously they do. But Cena is ALSO a draw and he does it every Monday night and two or three times a week on the house show circuit.

No one is arguing that Cena isn't a draw. I understand he's a massive draw..

I don't even know what Bieber thing you're talking about and your Royal Rumble "fact" was stupid, as I've already pointed out.

Are you too stupid to comprehend the comparison?

Umm...it is LITERALLY his name. He is "The Undertaker". He dresses very similarly to how he's always dressed, right down to the coat and hat.

What does Undertaker have to do with the discussion?

If you don't understand why a professional wrestler dresses himself in bright colors and works to appeal to a demographic even you agree is most likely to hand over money to the WWE, then you obviously do not understand professional wrestling.

I understand, but me and a lot of other fans do not like it. Just because we understand it doesn't mean we have to like it..

But he does it. And he has done it. And references to it are prominently displayed in his intro videos.

And we can suspend our disbelief because he plays his character so damn believable. Cena is believable, but he is just stale and corny.

Wait, wait, wait...are you saying that, because he's part time, people are going to be even more interested in watching him when he does wrestle?

Hmm...that's an interesting thought...I wonder if there's a way to apply that to your ridiculous argument about the Rock...

Sure, The Rock's part time status may have contributed to the buyrate, but youre forgetting a few things. The star power of 2013 RR was considerably weak compared to the past 5 years (lost stars like Edge, Jericho, Batista, Undertaker, HHH, etc.) yet it still drew more.

So now you're saying Cena isn't the biggest moneymaking draw because people who aren't paying money to the company anyways don't like him?

Those people that don't like him make up about 50%-60% of the audience.

Do you even understand how stupid you sound right now? At the end of the day, Cena is always one of the biggest, if not the biggest, attractions to nearly every show the WWE promotes. He has shown himself time and again to be a huge moneymaker/draw. If people aren't entertained by you, they are not going to pay to see you.

You always feel the need to praise Cena.. the 50% that do like him (kids) are more likely to spend unnecesary amounts of money on him than the other 50%

Yes, it does. If Cena wasn't the most entertaining, then people wouldn't pay more money to watch him than anyone else. This is basic logic and you telling me to go back to school is incredibly ironic given your obvious lack of basic logic.

You need to go back to Economics class if you think this.

Music and professional wrestling are NOTHING alike, aside from they both exist in the entertainment medium. You could not be making a worse comparison if you compared classical music to rap.

No shit man.. they are not alike, but being the most entertaining and being the biggest draw are completely different thigns; and this isn't just exclusive to ONE industry. It applies to anything..

Yes, they were there...so why is it you are blaming Cena for the show's rating being slightly less than last week's best summer rating but not them?



Good job on being a hypocrite. When the rating is good, it's because of Rollins, HHH and Steph being there with Cena. When the rating is bad, it's because of Cena.

I have yet to see Cena make a significant difference in the ratings by himself.

Thank you for proving you have no objectivity.
I have a life, son. One of these days you should try to get one, it's great. For example, yesterday I got to visit my mother, take my wife to eat BBQ, stock up on snacks for our Summerslam party for the friends we have coming over (don't worry, I'm sure you'll get friends someday too) and play with my new puppy.

yes, you live such a social life. Yet you were the one who wanted to start an argument with me when I had no interest arguing with the delusional Cena apologist such as yourself.. also I've seen many of your posts, with such a busy lifestyle, you sure take a lot of time coming to Cena's rescue whenever someone criticizes him. I think i've seen it all; Bernkastel calling Kane a bigger draw than DB and Shield and Sheamus.. and then you slobbering all over Cena's accomplishments and having a massive hard-on for him.

 

[John McCass]

What do you gain by writing essays on why you hate Cena? Chill. Your opinion is not a fact. It's just your opinion. Neither we can alter yours, nor can you ours. Move on. This topic is "stale".

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Wait, Crocker doesn't like Cena??

 

[Slyfox696]

And I tell delusional Cena lovers like you to go marry him

I'm not delusional. The difference between you and me is that reality supports my position.

And I'm calling you a Cena apologist because

You're an idiot. I know exactly why you're calling me that.

What relevance does being married have?

...you cannot be this stupid. Seriously, you cannot be this stupid.

Nope YOU'RE the one obsessed. With such a seemingly busy and social life you live, you sure take your time to come to Cena's rescue every time someone criticizes him.

This is the first Cena thread I've posted in within a few weeks, if I'm not mistaken.

You're really terrible at this whole "debating" thing.

I've seen your psots before, the only things you post are about non-wrestling stuff, but the time you do post about wrestling stuff, its to come to your hero, Cena's rescue.

I post about quite a few things, just usually not where you can read them.

Its a highly subjective poll thats what it is

It's scientific. I ask if people think you are a moron and we, collectively, agree you are.

its a fucking popularity contest that doesnt prove shit.

It proves you are a moron.

Just because people dont like me does not mean that i am the moron.

Oh, I doubt people care enough to truly dislike you, they just think you're an idiot.

Sure you don't; thats why your league of Cena apologists come here to gang on me..

Umm, you were arguing with people about Cena long before I came into this particular thread to point out your ignorance and stupidity.

Are you really trying to say they came to argue on my behalf in threads I've never posted in because they magically knew I want them to? Because that would push you past the label of "idiot" close to the realm of "insane".

No, its the fact that they can recognize Cena's pros (in ring work, mic work) yet realize his flaws (stale character) rather than praise him for every single thing he does and treat him like a God.

You aren't getting it. Not surprising really. What makes Reddit users "more objective" other than the fact these hypothetical users you have made up are, in your ideal world, more likely to agree with you?

Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, Triple H Steve Austin, Ric Flair, Mick Foley, and many others have all gone on record to compliment John Cena as a professional wrestler. Please tell me why your opinion and the opinion of these hypothetical Reddit users are somehow "more objective" than the opinion of posters here on WZ and the opinion of some of the greatest professional wrestlers in history.

I like how you gave all the credit to ONE person when there were 3 other people (Rollins, Steph, HHH) on the segment.

As opposed to you, who gave the blame of a 1.5% drop from the summer's best viewership to ONE person instead of every other person who was also on Raw?

Do you really not see how you are contradicting your own positions now?

Those were literally his only 2 characters.

You just said he had only 1 character! And when you are proven wrong, instead of admitting you were COMPLETELY wrong about Cena's character being the same as it was 10 years ago, you say he only has 2 characters, while trying to keep up this pretense you are objective.

You sound like an idiot. First of all, a GOOD character doesn't have drastic alterations, like I pointed out with Walter White. A good character undergoes very subtle changes. Wrestlers who get completely new characters are wrestlers who aren't good enough to keep their current one.

Like I said, you seem to know nothing about pro wrestling.

You call that character development?

Yes. It most certainly is character development. It has changed the interviews he gives, the promos he does, the programs he is in and the way he works his matches. It most certainly is character development.

You REALLY don't understand anything of which you speak, do you?

Season 1 Daryl was very hotheaded; now he is a lot more calm.

So that's character development huh? He's gotten more calm as he's gotten older (which I don't even know if I agree with, but we're not talking about Walking Dead right now). So getting "a lot more calm" is true character development but changing the promos you give, the programs you are in, the interviews you cut and the way you work your matches is not character development at all.

The gospel according to Crocker the Idiot, I suppose.

You clearly don't watch the show and are just making assumptions.

Wow, that is some VERY clever detective work. You figured out that I clearly don't watch the show any more and the only clue you needed was for me to tell you "Game of Thrones was far too boring for me to watch".

Well done, sir, well done.

By the way, I watched the first and second seasons and lost interest in the third when it took 6 episodes to do what they could have in 2.

You said before that Cena developed into a seasoned veteran with great matches.

Cena's CHARACTER developed into a seasoned veteran. It has changed he works his matches, it has changed the programs he is in and the interviews he cuts. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, why do you post responses to it?

I never said Cena should just turn heel randomly.

But you ARE saying he's never had a drastic character change. So way to completely ignore the point because you can't respond to it.

His character is the same as it was in 2007 when he established himself as the face of the company.

No it's not. First of all, he became the face of the company in 2005 when he got drafted to Raw. Second of all, his character is NOTHING like it was in 2005 and for you to say otherwise is asinine.

I could give you specific examples like the buildup to WM 22 against Triple H, where he was the young and unrefined brawler against the experienced vet whereas now he's the experienced vet getting tested by the young up and comers. I could point to the promo he had with CM Punk (I believe right before Summerslam) where he gave Punk a reality check on what it really means to be the top dog in the company (in kayfabe) from the position of one who has been there for so long. And then we can go to just last Monday night where he's cutting a promo on Rollins and talking about how he could be a 16 time world champion, putting himself in the same category as Ric Flair, something he never would have done in 2005.

For you to say his character is the same is to say you don't truly understand character progression unless the WWE smacks you in the face with it. Subtlety is obviously not a strong point of yours.

The point is that those shows are constantly INCREASING, but WWE ratings are constantly DECREASING; ever wondered why?

Because Breaking Bad's viewership had virtually nowhere to go but up if it wishes to stay on the air? Breaking Bad averaged 1.23 million viewers for its first season and season 2 averaged 1.3 million. WWE Raw, on the other hand, just drew 3.7 million viewers. With the exception of the last half of the last season, Raw viewership easily surpasses Breaking Bad's.

Seriously, do you EVER stop making stupid statements? Breaking Bad's entire series had as much original programming as the WWE puts on in roughly 2 months and they have completely different appeals. Comparing the two is rather asinine.

I do see the difference but that doesn't excuse the ratings slowly increasing year by year.

No, but things like streaming, 30 hours of original programming, Internet spoilers/results, TiVo, increasing number of TV channels and the Network all contribute to ratings decline. You know what hasn't changed? The fact that WWE Monday Night Raw is consistently the most watched cable program on Monday night.

If you compare one Cena appearance to one Rock appearance, who do you think would draw in more viewers?

If Rock had worked a full time schedule the last ten years, working every Raw, numerous Smackdowns, every PPV...if he had made the press rounds and been in WWE movies, I suspect there would be very little difference between the two.

Batista, Lesnar (in 2004), The Rock. Any of these guys ring a bell to you??

Sure...it doesn't change the fact Cena merchandise made up a huge percentage of sales.

Here, just take a glance at the Top 10 from the WWE Shop Zone from 2004:

1. John Cena Football Jersey
2. John Cena Camouflage T-shirt
3. John Cena Headband/Wristband Set
4. John Cena Word Life Lock Pendant
5. John Cena T-shirt, Cap and Lock Package
6. Triple H Cross/Skull T-shirt
7. Undertaker Logo Pendant
8. Randy Orton Legend T-shirt
9. John Cena Word Life Foam Knucks
10. John Cena Hooded Sweatshirt

http://web.archive.org/web/20040907034930/http://shopzone.wwe.com/index.asp

Cena had 7 of the top 10 items on the Top 10 list. He was a MIDCARDER and he was still selling that well.

The fact is Cena has been a HUGE cash cow for the WWE, far more than either Punk or Bryan.

I know they aren't full timers Captain Obvious.. i'm trying to get it through your head that Cena is the biggest FULL TIME draw, but not the biggest draw of ALL TIME

Who said Cena was the biggest draw of all time? It wasn't me. So you are arguing against something I never said.

Congratulations on proving yourself an idiot once more.

Then why can't he singlehandedly boost ratings like The Rock?

I'm pretty certain we've covered this ad nauseum at this point.

You're kidding me right? The Lesnar/Undertaker segment ran into the overrun, which didn't isn't considered in the 3rd hour

If they don't give a breakdown of the overrun, then it's being included in the third hour. That's how it has been for years.

Comparing a WrestleMania buyrate to a Royal Rumble buyrate is just laughable.

As is comparing a Royal Rumble buyrate featuring a rare appearance by a movie star. Which has been my point all along, which you have, unsurprisingly, not been able to comprehend.

Nope, he drew the largest RR in 5 fucking years

I mean, what's your point here? That Cena isn't easily the biggest moneymaker in the company because a movie star who works an average of 1 match every two years saw an 8.7% increase in buyrates on the third biggest show of the year? Is that REALLY your argument?

No one is arguing that Cena isn't a draw. I understand he's a massive draw..

Then why did you say this earlier?

Cena is obviously not the draw that people make him out to be ANYMORE.

its to prove that Cena is no longer the almighty draw that he once was in 2005. He's getting up there in age and obviously people are tiring of him.

It's pretty clear you are pushing your anti-Cena agenda by suggesting he's no longer a big draw, and to support your erroneous position, you refer to a show where the hour he concluded easily did the best viewership.

Like I said, you're an idiot.

Are you too stupid to comprehend the comparison?

No, I mean I literally had no idea what Justin Bieber had to do with John Cena. You make a Bieber argument later in your post, which I promptly smacked down for the stupid position it was.

What does Undertaker have to do with the discussion?

He's a 50+ year old man with a character meant for children...so why would adults ever cheer for him?

Because, like I've said, it's pro wrestling.

I understand, but me and a lot of other fans do not like it. Just because we understand it doesn't mean we have to like it..

You don't have to like it...but don't act like it lessens the reality of the situation. John Cena is undisputedly one of the greatest ever. He is undisputedly the best draw in the WWE and has been for the last decade. He is obviously one of the best workers in-ring the company has ever seen.

You don't have to like Cena, but don't claim any of the former statements aren't true.

And we can suspend our disbelief because he plays his character so damn believable. Cena is believable, but he is just stale and corny.

As opposed to the Undertaker, who has essentially played the same deadman character for 25 years (minus the brief biker gimmick)?

Sure, The Rock's part time status may have contributed to the buyrate

MAY have contributed? No, it definitely contributed.

The star power of 2013 RR was considerably weak compared to the past 5 years (lost stars like Edge, Jericho, Batista, Undertaker, HHH, etc.) yet it still drew more.

And the Wrestlemania match between Rock and Cena drew more than any other PPV ever and the rematch drew over 1 million buys.

No one is arguing Rock doesn't draw. But only you seem to be arguing Cena can no longer draw well.

You always feel the need to praise Cena

What's not to praise? He's great on the mic, great in promos, puts on great matches and makes the WWE a lot of money. What is there to not praise? The fact little boys like you don't like him because you're "cool" and so rebellious? Yeah, I'll pass.

You need to go back to Economics class if you think this.

I've spent plenty of time studying economics. And economics tell you people spend more money on things they enjoy. You telling me to go back to economics class doesn't make any sense at all.

No shit man.. they are not alike

...then why the hell did you bring it up?!

God, you're so stupid.

but being the most entertaining and being the biggest draw are completely different thigns

Not in pro wrestling, they are not.

I have yet to see Cena make a significant difference in the ratings by himself.

So you know more than the WWE? Because the WWE obviously feels like John Cena is a huge draw for them, that's why they constantly promote his matches as big attractions.

So do tell me what evidence you have that you know the WWE's business better than they do.

yes, you live such a social life. Yet you were the one who wanted to start an argument with me

I didn't care if you argued or not. I was just pointing out how idiotic your comments are and noted your attempt to hide your nearly absolute ignorance of pro wrestling.

 

[Crocker]

I'm not delusional. The difference between you and me is that reality supports my position.

The difference is that you are just a mark.

It's scientific. I ask if people think you are a moron and we, collectively, agree you are.

Are you done? Because intsead of providing facts all you seem to do is call me a moron. i'm not even going to respond to those parts where you called me an idiot.

Oh, I doubt people care enough to truly dislike you, they just think you're an idiot.

Or they dislike me because I vocally dislike Cena, which is something they have a BIG problem with.

Umm, you were arguing with people about Cena long before I came into this particular thread to point out your ignorance and stupidity.

You're the ignorant one, ironically.

Are you really trying to say they came to argue on my behalf in threads I've never posted in because they magically knew I want them to? Because that would push you past the label of "idiot" close to the realm of "insane".

Don't twist my words

You aren't getting it. Not surprising really. What makes Reddit users "more objective" other than the fact these hypothetical users you have made up are, in your ideal world, more likely to agree with you?

Because here are blinded by their love for Cena

Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, Triple H Steve Austin, Ric Flair, Mick Foley, and many others have all gone on record to compliment John Cena as a professional wrestler. Please tell me why your opinion and the opinion of these hypothetical Reddit users are somehow "more objective" than the opinion of posters here on WZ and the opinion of some of the greatest professional wrestlers in history.

They acknowledged him for his great in ring work and mic work, which i admit are top notch. But they didn't say anything about his stale character. Numerous people like Cesaro and Ziggler said they were tired of seeing Cena vs Orton, or in Ziggler's case was tired of Cena's shtick. Coincidentally he got depushed around this time, which i'm sure you are going to deny

As opposed to you, who gave the blame of a 1.5% drop from the summer's best viewership to ONE person instead of every other person who was also on Raw?

Past 2 weeks that Cena wasn't on Raw, the ratings were increased. I'm sure you're gonna deny that as well.

You just said he had only 1 character! And when you are proven wrong, instead of admitting you were COMPLETELY wrong about Cena's character being the same as it was 10 years ago, you say he only has 2 characters, while trying to keep up this pretense you are objective.

He had 1 character ever since he rose to the top. His rapper gimmick was as a mid carder.

You sound like an idiot. First of all, a GOOD character doesn't have drastic alterations, like I pointed out with Walter White. A good character undergoes very subtle changes. Wrestlers who get completely new characters are wrestlers who aren't good enough to keep their current one.

Cena didn't have any subtle changes at all. Even other Cena marks would agree with me on this one, but you seem to be the most delusional of all of them.

Like I said, you seem to know nothing about pro wrestling.

Believe what you want

Yes. It most certainly is character development. It has changed the interviews he gives, the promos he does, the programs he is in and the way he works his matches. It most certainly is character development.

Okay, lets go along with your idea, that Cena's character evolved by becoming into a seasoned veteran. So that was from 2005-2007. Then from 2007 to now, he was the man that runs the place. So what else has changed frmo 2007-2015? He's the exact same in those 8 years.. the storylines are so predictable its not even funny. He's either facing a monster heel or if its another person like Rollins or Punk. he lets them "shoot" on him and then Cena goes on another "shoot" and gets the last laugh. Look at feuds with Rollins, Punk, Daniel Bryan, Orton, etc..

So that's character development huh? He's gotten more calm as he's gotten older (which I don't even know if I agree with, but we're not talking about Walking Dead right now). So getting "a lot more calm" is true character development but changing the promos you give, the programs you are in, the interviews you cut and the way you work your matches is not character development at all.

Theres more to his character but I didn't wanna go in depth, but i will now. Daryl has went through a lot of development. Went from a lone wolf to Rick's right hand man. His brother's death has made him stronger and definitely matured him.. it has changed the way he handles situations, interacts with the group, etc.. nice double standards though

Wow, that is some VERY clever detective work. You figured out that I clearly don't watch the show any more and the only clue you needed was for me to tell you "Game of Thrones was far too boring for me to watch".

Well done, sir, well done.

By the way, I watched the first and second seasons and lost interest in the third when it took 6 episodes to do what they could have in 2.

So you don't like shows with great storylines, character development, and suspense. Got it, thats why you like Cena.

Cena's CHARACTER developed into a seasoned veteran. It has changed he works his matches, it has changed the programs he is in and the interviews he cuts. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, why do you post responses to it?


But you ARE saying he's never had a drastic character change. So way to completely ignore the point because you can't respond to it.

This is stupid.. Cena's promo style is exactly the same. His in ring work is still very similar. he hypes up the matchup, calls himself the man and to be the man you gotta beat the man, etc. yada yada yada

No it's not. First of all, he became the face of the company in 2005 when he got drafted to Raw. Second of all, his character is NOTHING like it was in 2005 and for you to say otherwise is asinine.

Sigh.. Cena received character development yet Daryl and Glenn didn't.. I just can't

I could give you specific examples like the buildup to WM 22 against Triple H, where he was the young and unrefined brawler against the experienced vet whereas now he's the experienced vet getting tested by the young up and comers. I could point to the promo he had with CM Punk (I believe right before Summerslam) where he gave Punk a reality check on what it really means to be the top dog in the company (in kayfabe) from the position of one who has been there for so long. And then we can go to just last Monday night where he's cutting a promo on Rollins and talking about how he could be a 16 time world champion, putting himself in the same category as Ric Flair, something he never would have done in 2005.

Ok he evoled from 2005-2007 from a rookie to a seasoned veteran. Then from 2007-2015 he just stayed the seasoned veteran, with no other significant changes. Thanks for proving my point again.

No, but things like streaming, 30 hours of original programming, Internet spoilers/results, TiVo, increasing number of TV channels and the Network all contribute to ratings decline. You know what hasn't changed? The fact that WWE Monday Night Raw is consistently the most watched cable program on Monday night.

Nope.. wait till Football and Baseball season which EASILY surpass Raw. Also Raw is constantly hitting "all time lows".

If Rock had worked a full time schedule the last ten years, working every Raw, numerous Smackdowns, every PPV...if he had made the press rounds and been in WWE movies, I suspect there would be very little difference between the two.

believe what you want man..

Sure...it doesn't change the fact Cena merchandise made up a huge percentage of sales.

Here, just take a glance at the Top 10 from the WWE Shop Zone from 2004:

1. John Cena Football Jersey
2. John Cena Camouflage T-shirt
3. John Cena Headband/Wristband Set
4. John Cena Word Life Lock Pendant
5. John Cena T-shirt, Cap and Lock Package
6. Triple H Cross/Skull T-shirt
7. Undertaker Logo Pendant
8. Randy Orton Legend T-shirt
9. John Cena Word Life Foam Knucks
10. John Cena Hooded Sweatshirt

http://web.archive.org/web/20040907034930/http://shopzone.wwe.com/index.asp

That was in 2004 dude..

The fact is Cena has been a HUGE cash cow for the WWE, far more than either Punk or Bryan.

Bryan didn't have longetivity due to injuries.. Punk quit and wasn't rly pushed as the main guy like Cena.

Who said Cena was the biggest draw of all time? It wasn't me. So you are arguing against something I never said.

You keep on telling me how big of a draw cena is. literally your last post.. now you're contradicting yourself

If they don't give a breakdown of the overrun, then it's being included in the third hour. That's how it has been for years.

You don't know shit about the ratings

As is comparing a Royal Rumble buyrate featuring a rare appearance by a movie star. Which has been my point all along, which you have, unsurprisingly, not been able to comprehend.

Undertaker, HHH, HBK, Edge, Jericho were all not there yet he somehow drew more than them. You're ignoring that part

Then why did you say this earlier?

He's still a big draw, but not as big as before.. every good thing comes to an end, so does Cena's drawing power.

No, I mean I literally had no idea what Justin Bieber had to do with John Cena. You make a Bieber argument later in your post, which I promptly smacked down for the stupid position it was.

Sigh.

I just said that being the biggest draw does not equal to being the most entertaining. I gave you a comparison of justin beiber who is vocally loathed yet he has one of the highest net worths in the music industry

He's a 50+ year old man with a character meant for children...so why would adults ever cheer for him?

Because he's a lot more likable and less corny. he has an aura that just makes him believable.

You don't have to like it...but don't act like it lessens the reality of the situation. John Cena is undisputedly one of the greatest ever. He is undisputedly the best draw in the WWE and has been for the last decade. He is obviously one of the best workers in-ring the company has ever seen.

Sure, i agree. Nobody is denying these statements. But his character still needs some work.

As opposed to the Undertaker, who has essentially played the same deadman character for 25 years (minus the brief biker gimmick)?

Maybe people like his gimmick more than the goody two shoes Cena? Hvae you considered that?

No one is arguing Rock doesn't draw. But only you seem to be arguing Cena can no longer draw well.

You realize that Cena is not going to draw this much forever right? His drawing power is already diminishing. He still draws a lot, but not as much as his peak (2005-2007)

What's not to praise? He's great on the mic, great in promos, puts on great matches and makes the WWE a lot of money. What is there to not praise? The fact little boys like you don't like him because you're "cool" and so rebellious? Yeah, I'll pass.

His damn character. Nobody is denying that he is great in promos and in the ring.

Sigh.. we don't hate him because its "cool". So please dont make assumptions based on what we do; you can't read minds. We hate him because his character desperately needs a change.

I've spent plenty of time studying economics. And economics tell you people spend more money on things they enjoy. You telling me to go back to economics class doesn't make any sense at all.

Economics classes teaches that being the biggest money maker and the most entertaining are two separate things.

So you know more than the WWE? Because the WWE obviously feels like John Cena is a huge draw for them, that's why they constantly promote his matches as big attractions.

Putting faith in the WWE is just stupid. they've made so many bad choices over the years like making Reigns win the Royal Rumble when Daniel Bryan just returned, causing a huge backlash. ever wondered why they didn't have Reigns beat Lesnar at Mania? Cuz they don't wanna create another John Cena situation with 50% of the crowd hating on Reigns. Thats not a good sign for the future face of the company. Thats why they are trying to rebuild Reigns so 90% of the audience will like him. So even the company doesn't want the faces to get booed.

 

[Thriller Ant]

...you just said the Undertaker's character isn't corny?

 

[Slyfox696]

...you just said the Undertaker's character isn't corny?

Oh, he's saying a LOT of stupid things. It's what he does. I don't have the time to read, much less respond, to his latest trove of hilarious stupidity, but I look forward to reading it come Monday.

 

[Crocker]

No Slyfox its what you do. "Cena has character development but Daryl and Glenn don't".. double standards at its finest

 

[One Punch Doug Crashin]

I know this guy's not breaking any rules but..... Anyone want a prison term for Crocker? y'know for just being an overall annoying little prick?

 

[Thriller Ant]

Oh, he's saying a LOT of stupid things. It's what he does. I don't have the time to read, much less respond, to his latest trove of hilarious stupidity, but I look forward to reading it come Monday.

I know that anything he says about Cena will be moronic, so this was a pleasant surprise.