Rape

[Tastycles]

This weekend I went to Leeds to see an old friend. I didn't realise before I went were exactly he lived, but this morning on the way to the train station I realised I was walking near where a girl I know was raped last year. I felt horrid at the thought, obviously, but it got me thinking about rape.

I've looked at a few statistics, and some of them seem very odd to me. According to rape crisis, 25% of women have expereienced rape or attempted rape, with 97% of those being by somebody they knew. This seems entirely plausible, but what strikes me as odd is that the conviction rate for rape is only 6%.

Most people would say that this is because the women are scared to report rape, but 63% of women do report the rapes, which leads to a very odd conclusion. If you know the person who raped you, why wouldn't you go to the police, and furthermore, if you know who the assailant was, how do they avoid conviction.

As far as I can see there are two possibilities. Either the statistics are wrong and women who say they have been raped are lying, and thus don't go to the police, but put it in a survey, for some reason that I can't think of, or the justice system is entirely appaling and rapists get away with it all of the time. Which do you think it is?

For the record the person I know's attacker was caught and she did know him. I believe he has recently been convicted, but I don't know.

But what do you think, is rape an exaggerated problem, or as a society do we fail the victims?

Personally, I think we don't do enough to protect women. Court is a horrible place and to force a woman to testify in person in front of her attacker is out of order. I also think that the police should take more notice of domestic rape accusations, because dominant husbands is the real threat, not shady men who jump out from the woods.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I have to look to the statistics and call them bullshit first of all. They're bullshit because how do you know either way how many people are raped if it's not reported? I mean "63% do report the rapes.." how is that known at all? Rape is still a huge 'no-no' when it comes to talking about it around people.

People don't report it for a majority of reasons, most of all the conviction rate of 6% which you pointed out. If there's only a 6% chance you're going to be believed why would you report it? Because that's what it's saying - 94% of women lie about rape. Now, I'm not saying it hasn't happened, just that it's no where near as common as 94% of them. I mean, the connotations attached to being raped are horrible - why would you knowingly put that upon yourself? Those that lie have no idea of what it's really like.

And the reason many aren't convicted is the "It was her fault because she was drunk/wore a short skirt" thought that does go around a society. I made a thread on this months back, and some people actually argued she could be held partially repsonsible in circumcstances such as this. No one asks to be raped - it defies to meaning of it. Being drunk doesn't make rape okay, it arguably makes it worse. There is nothing anyone can do to deserve it at all. No means no, regardless.

That thought that she could be to blame stops people reporting it, the only thing worse than not being believed is hearing people say "Well you shouldn't have been drinking". How guilty would that make you feel? If it was me, I'd rather just forget it happened than have all that happen to me.

Also, another point you raise, is that a huge majority of rapes are by people the victim knows. Even worse if it was a family member. The fear of people believing the rapist over you is enough to stop anyone, and ripping a family apart would tear me apart. Often, it's better just to forget about it. I don't agree with the "you have to tell someone" way of thinking, as it isn't always the best thing. Being raped also completely affects your ability to trust someone - imagine how hard it'd be to find someone you trusted enough to talk about it. The fear they'll leave you is overwhelming.

Rape is in no way exaggerated by society, it is by far the opposite. It's seen as a taboo subject; another reason victims won't talk about it. It affects people for life, but their are too many negative connotations for them to report it or speak out about it. People don't know the facts of rape, and don't understand how it can affect someone. Until they do, society is 'failing the victims'.

 

[Evan Snow-Wolf]

Rape has too many variables to solidly convict. So we wind up with strange laws and interpretation. Minus seminal fluid testing and similar methods, the vast, VAST bulk of rape charges are nothing more than he said / she said. Your word against his/hers. That method of conviction doesn't work. Remember that the rule is that you are innocent until proving guilty, not until the woman says it enough times. Even if you are 99% certain that Man A raped Woman B, the burden of proof is still on the prosecution. Rape gets fuzzy on dates, in places with alcohol, etc.

And there have been documented cases (one I knew), where women cry rape to get even with boyfriends and such that pissed them off. They have sex, then she gets mad for whatever reason, and starts crying rat. I'm sure this number is extremely small, but the behavior is enough to throw off the legitamate rape cases.

The exact location escapes me at the moment, but I heard a story recently where a rape case was thrown out of court because the judge ruled that the victim was wearing jeans at the time, and that its impossible to force jeans off of a struggling person that doesn't want them taken off.

Take that for what its worth.

 

[HBK-aholic]

The exact location escapes me at the moment, but I heard a story recently where a rape case was thrown out of court because the judge ruled that the victim was wearing jeans at the time, and that its impossible to force jeans off of a struggling person that doesn't want them taken off.

Take that for what its worth.

WHAT? How is that in any way impossible? Especially when you look at a huge majority of rape cases are women being raped by men who are physically stronger; that's just a fact. There is nothing you can do to stop it, and having jeans on is not a detterant. Wow, I think I just found the winner of the worlds stupidest thing.

Eugh, further shows why women are so scared of reporting it. If you're raped in jeans, there's no point reporting it because apparently it's impossible. Are the law courts trying to stop women coming forward?

 

[Evan Snow-Wolf]

I found it for you. It was in Italy. Tell me this isn't an absurd legal precedent or what:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3693/is_199903/ai_n8849751/

 

[HBK-aholic]

Thank you.

ROME--Women who wear jeans cannot claim to have been raped, because jeans cannot be taken off "without the active help of the person wearing them," Italy's highest appeals court, the Court of Cassation, ruled February 10.

The judgment reversed a

conviction in the case of an 18 year-old woman, identified as Rosa, who had been raped by her driving instructor. The instructor, who had been sentenced to 34 months in jail by court in Potenza, in southern Italy, claimed that she had consented to have sex with him.

The high court sided with him. It is impossible to take off a pair of jeans if the wearer opposed this "with all their strength," the court's opinion said.

I've never read anything so stupid in my entire life. What the woman was wearing shouldn't even be an issue, and definately shouldn't be used to overturn a conviction. I fail to see how this is impossible. And now, all this is saying to men is if you go out and rape a woman whose wearing jeans, you'll get off because the judge thinks it's impossible. So sure, Italy, help rapists and lie to women. Absolutely fucking sickening.

 

[OIL]

People don't report it for a majority of reasons, most of all the conviction rate of 6% which you pointed out. If there's only a 6% chance you're going to be believed why would you report it? Because that's what it's saying - 94% of women lie about rape.

Ah hem. Just like to point out that men do get raped too. We did this in PSE when I was in year 11 & everyone laughed, but men get raped too. So, let's not just focus on the fact that it's mostly women, because it's men also.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Ah hem. Just like to point out that men do get raped too. We did this in PSE when I was in year 11 & everyone laughed, but men get raped too. So, let's not just focus on the fact that it's mostly women, because it's men also.

Not denying that. I even made reference to how it was 'mostly' women in another post. However, look at the statistics he provided. They were discussing rape amongst WOMEN, therefore it was implying 94% lie, and men didn't come into it at all. Why would I bring it up if I'm discussing something different?

 

[Tastycles]

The statistics were about male on female rape. They come from surveys carried out by rape charities and are viewed as being quite accurate. The jeans thing is ridiculous, but it does raise the problem of consent. It is easy to prove someone slept with someone else, proof of rape is far trickier unless they have some other wounds. There are unfortunately a lot of girls who rather than face the consequences of what they have done whilst drunk to their partners, they cry rape. It's petulant, and because lots of these cases do get thrown out of court it means that it disuade genuine victims to come forward.

I'd like to think that one day, forensic science could somehow prove forced sexual activity, but I doubt it's possible, let alone probable. This is just something that as a society we have to learn to be more supportive and aware of, starting by having a police force that doesn't interrogate rape victims.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

The fact is that no matter how rape happens or if its true or false conviction is the fact that the european laws is what makes convicting criminals near enough impossible...

The fact that soo many women actually cry rape is what makes the system ignorant on it when it actually does hapen, and the fact that rape is used as a tool to make others feel powerful over other individuals male or females, it makes me sick to my stomach to think about it.

European laws have been manipulated soo much in favour of the criminals involved that no one takes it seriously anymore, thats the issue, thats the reason why it is still a taboo subject because criminals are treated with more respect then the victims involved in these crimes and the fact that the legal system is manipulated so that lawyers can get their defendants off of their charges It makes you wonder why so many women dont report it.

The only way this can be taken seriously is if the laws are changed so that criminals cannot get an out for their crimes so they can offend again, examples need to be made and punishments need to fit the crime, otherwise this will keep happening again and again.

Oh and one more thing you think italy was bad their is also a case in iran when an arab women was raped repeatedly when attempting to retrieve a naked photo of herself from her boyfriend, he then proceeded to lock her in his car and have his mates repeatedly rape her, she attempted to inform the authorities but instead was hauled in jail and is being sentenced to a stoning.

 

[Richard]

The law here in Australia fails most victims and is soft on convicting rapists. One of my closest friends got raped and her friend was forced to watch and do you know what he got? A fucking 18 month good behaviour bond. Which meant all he had to do was report to a police station once in a while for 18 months and have no charge laid against him in that time. That's fucking disgusting, he should have been put in jail for a long time.

 

[Azrael Cain]

If I recall correctly, rape wasn't even a crime in the United States until 1977. And Marital Rape wasn't either until only a few years ago (1990s?). The issue of rape is controversial and taboo, to say the least, and all statistics on it (like all statistics in any given field) are either inaccurate or made up.

Mind you, I am not saying that to mean that the crime of rape does not exist or is some sort of feminist conspiracy (although there are people out there who believe that). I am merely saying statistics cannot be trusted; but for our sake, and for the sake of this thread, let's assume they represent accurately what occurs.

Also noteworthy is the fact that rapes are tremendously under-reported, so the statistics we do have are based only on the cases reported. I believe it's something like less than half of the victims report it or even bother filing charges. Most of it has to do with the factors of what rape is as a crime.

Rape is generally about power and dominance (and rage), and is not sexual in its intention, only in its execution. Because it is shameful, the victims do not report it. Because of potential threat on their life by the rapist, victims do not report it. Because of an power dynamic (boss/worker, father/daughter) victims do not report it. Because of the taboo nature of the topic of rape (let alone sex), going through the questioning process by the police, and even testifying (if it ever gets to that) some victims feel it isn't worth it and just want to "move on."

I think that the most troublesome thing about rape is the fact that it often times does turn into a "he said, she said" or that it is disregarded as having legitimately occurred. That is why acquaintance rapes go unreported -- the mentality of 'No one will believe me if I said a friend raped me.'

Can you imagine how traumatizing it has to be to re-tell the occurrence of someone forcibly penetrating you to some strange detective, not knowing if your attacker will ever be physically captured? It takes a lot of courage to survive and then report a rape... and the victims that have, do and will come forward have my silent and undying nod of respect.

There must be something awful missing in a man's life to think that rape is ever acceptable. It is my opinion that rapists need to be put to death, and the more painful of a way to die, the better. (Not so in the case of false accusations or cases of statutory where it really is love and a decent relationship -- a viciously gray area in itself).

That's not to say that it often times is just a false allegation. That does happen, and again, because it does, it hurts the actual victims of the crime. I do not envy being the detective having to sort out a simple case of "Buyer's Remorse" against an actual rape... that must be frustrating, but that's what False Accusation charges are for.

Regardless of statistics, I think that our society needs to reexamine its core values when it comes to gender, sex and what is appropriate. We need to educate the youth at a very early age to respect one another, to respect personal space and people's wishes.

The sexes need to cut each other some slack... guys are assholes and women are defensive, and what is to be expected when these volatile characteristics meet?

Regardless, more can be done to aid rape victims and more should be done. It just means sorting everything out from the core to the top, and no one is going to take the time to do that.

 

[Ushiku]

Last April, I recall my auntie being attacked by an Asian guy who pretended to be a taxi driver, and she was forced to give oral sex by 3 men in an abandoned car park.

When it came to the court case, the guys got off by saying that it was consentual, despite the fact that included in the evidence was the fact her own father forced her to perform oral sex as a child, and she doesn't even consumate it within her own marriage (and her husband testified as such).

Its not just countries outside the West that are backwards in this regards, the whole precedure for this crime is a complete joke since unless there's intrusive DNA evidence, there's little way of proving a case without witnesses to the attack, and as much many weasels and scumbags walk the street.

Just yesterday a guy in the UK was convicted of raping his 4 year old step daughter when she was 2 years old, this same guy killed the girl's brother last year. Its truly fucked up that this could happen, especially when the family were on the Social Services list. But then again Social Services are hardly known for their groundbreaking work in family intervention. I know from personal experience that when I was adopted, my family fostered a girl who's non-biological father (she was mixed race and her mum was white, and so was her "dad", go figure) was a pimp and drug dealer, yet he had access to see her, albeit supervised... yet I found in ym personal experience that I was unable to meet my biological father who was schizofrenic before he died... where is the justice in that? People with mental illness are treated worse than pimps, rapists, dealers, and paedophiles... its fucked up shit.

How is it in the US?

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Well thats shitty, I would never marry a woman who didnt suck dick.

anyway. What the fuck is this threa deven about? I was going to make a very short post.

"...Uh? Sucks?"

Erm I guess rape is all bad and shit. Yea, not many convicitons happen, but then again, a fucking TON of girls falsely accuse people, and totally lie about it. Happens ALLL the time. Its nearly impossible to prove. Ill give you an example.

Im a pretty big dude, with tattoos, and a shaved head. When most girls see me, they think "rough sex" (if they are thinking sex, I mean). I also have an unsuaully large penis, which tends to rip girls vaginal walls, sometimes. Well, when i have sex with a chick, get rough with her, and maybe give her a little tearing in the kooch...

How could I prove it wasnt rape? My cum is in her hair, her vag is ripped, and she has bruises on her arms, and ass. I then decide I dont like her very much, and tell her to be on her way. maybe pay for the taxi. She gets mad, and tells someone I raped her.

Now, look at me. and look at her, and all the evidence. now what? Its shit like that that allows people to get away with it. and it happens WAY more than many people think. In everyones rush to be chivalrous, they dont think of the big picture, and maybe logical reasons why the numbers turn out how they do.