Is rape ever the 'victims' fault?

[HBK-aholic]

That is actually a good idea. They put themselves in a situation that was not only unsafe but they also couldn't make any type of legitimate decision. Alcohol muddles with the mind and the body. It makes their accounts less reliable. It increases the chance that it wasn't actually rape. It was spawn from the fact that they put themselves in a bad situation and something bad happened to them. Now what happened isn't their fault, but they increased the odds of it happening.

I disagree. You can be raped anywhere. Did you know most rapes are carried out by someone you know when you're left alone with them? Stranger rape is far less common. The women drinking should have no part of what the get from it. And as for the bolded part, they've just been through a court case to prove it WAS rape. And it's incredibly hard to get rape proven. They were raped, the fact they had alcohol in their systems means nothing.

They were blaming her for putting herself in a bad situation, which she did. They had their compensation taken away. What a big deal. The rapist still went to jail. The fact that they increased the odds of the incident is why they lost their money.

It's not about the money really, it's the fact they're undermining what happened because they'd had alcohol. Going out with friends isn't putting yourself i a bad situation. As I said earlier, you're more likely to be raped by someone you know, than a stranger after drinking.

It's punishment for putting yourself in a bad situation. If you go drinking, then do it socially and in a public place. Take precautions, and make sure your friends would be worried if you were gone.

So you're punishing women for going out now?

No body had the right to rape her, which is why someone still went to jail. But the feeling of the court is that she forgoes her right to monetary compensation when she enters that bar and drinks. Why, you may ask. It is because when she is drinking she has decreased the odds of her being able to defend herself.

Drunk or not, there is hardly any way a woman can stop herself being raped. Men are physically stronger than women on average.

There is a bit of a mistake here. Now I agree that he shouldn't get hard jail time, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be and wasn't actually punished. If he was actually raped then he has gone through a traumatic experience. It could have easily warped both him and his sense of right and wrong. Or it could even have been a case of temporary insanity. Either way, he needs a shrink or an asylum, not a prison sentence.

All rapists need a prison sentence. There is no excuse. If they could get away with being sent to a psychiatrist just imagine what would happen. Imagine the amount of people who have been raped, now imagine what would happen if you could rape someone else due to what you've been through and not be punished?

Your ability to make decisions doesn't completely develop until you are 30 first of all, but that really doesn't matter here. Do you seriously think that his growth was not affected at all by the rape? He probably needs serious therapy after the rape, which something that he probably didn't recieve.

For a start, I'm 16 and I know rape is wrong. I've known that for years. Are you telling me you have to be 30 to understand that?

And, Who cares? I felt sorry for the fact he was raped, but that went the second he raped someone else. The day I feel sorry for a rapist is the day HBK isn't my favourite wrestler.

 

[Murfish]

I disagree. You can be raped anywhere.

It can happen anywhere, but if you are functioning below what your normal level you can be taken advantage of more easily.

Did you know most rapes are carried out by someone you know when you're left alone with them? Stranger rape is far less common.

Yes, I did know that. Fact is that alcohol increases the odds of something bad happening.

The women drinking should have no part of what the get from it. And as for the bolded part, they've just been through a court case to prove it WAS rape. And it's incredibly hard to get rape proven. They were raped, the fact they had alcohol in their systems means nothing.

So be careful and go out with multiple people.

It's not about the money really, it's the fact they're undermining what happened because they'd had alcohol. Going out with friends isn't putting yourself i a bad situation. As I said earlier, you're more likely to be raped by someone you know, than a stranger after drinking.

They aren't undermining the crime, they are saying that the decisions made make them intelligible for monetary compensation.

So you're punishing women for going out now?

They are being punished because the court determined that their decisions helped lead to an event and prevented them from deserving money.

Drunk or not, there is hardly any way a woman can stop herself being raped. Men are physically stronger than women on average.

No, but an aware and conscious woman can seek help, not fight him off, but seek help more readily. If you have been drinking then you will be more ill equipped to handle any situation you encounter.

All rapists need a prison sentence. There is no excuse. If they could get away with being sent to a psychiatrist just imagine what would happen. Imagine the amount of people who have been raped, now imagine what would happen if you could rape someone else due to what you've been through and not be punished?

Wrong. Mental illness is a perfectly sound reason to keep a rapist out of prison. I suppose every single murderer deserves jail time as well? I only said a psychiatrist because of his age and the fact that it could have been temporary insanity.

Who cares? I felt sorry for the fact he was raped, but that went the second he raped someone else. The day I feel sorry for a rapist is the day HBK isn't my favourite wrestler.

So you wouldn't feel bad for an abused, traumatized, and probably scarred child. Yes, a 14 year old is a child. And this confused and scared child does something horrible without full knowledge of what is being done, the consequences, and a developed sense of right and wrong.

I have a different example for you. Let's say that there is this 18 year old. He was mentally ill and bereft of any sense of right and wrong or where the line is. One day he rapes a friend. Would you send a man to jail who has absolutely incapable of understanding why that was wrong on even the most basic level?

 

[HBK-aholic]

It can happen anywhere, but if you are functioning below what your normal level you can be taken advantage of more easily.

There isn't really such a thing as more easily. If a guy wants to rape you, he'll do it.

Yes, I did know that. Fact is that alcohol increases the odds of something bad happening.

So? the rapist as at fault, no one else.

So be careful and go out with multiple people.

How do you know they didn't? As I said above, if someones set their sights on you, it's going to be damn hard to stop them.

They aren't undermining the crime, they are saying that the decisions made make them intelligible for monetary compensation.

They are undermining it. It's as if they're saying you don't deserve as much help because you drank alcohol. Rape is still rape, it still has the same effects on the victim whether they were drinking or not.

They are being punished because the court determined that their decisions helped lead to an event and prevented them from deserving money.

I could have made a decision to walk through a deserted park on my way home, but then I could have been raped. My decision would have helped lead to that event. Does that mean I wouldn't deserve as much money as someone who didn't walk through the park?


No, but an aware and conscious woman can seek help, not fight him off, but seek help more readily. If you have been drinking then you will be more ill equipped to handle any situation you encounter.

Wrong. Mental illness is a perfectly sound reason to keep a rapist out of prison. I suppose every single murderer deserves jail time as well? I only said a psychiatrist because of his age and the fact that it could have been temporary insanity.

He should see a psychiatrist, but whilst in prison. He raped someone. He just pretty much guaranteed he's ruined someone elses life. And he deserves to walk free? It's bullshit.

So you wouldn't feel bad for an abused, traumatized, and probably scarred child. Yes, a 14 year old is a child. And this confused and scared child does something horrible without full knowledge of what is being done, the consequences, and a developed sense of right and wrong.

A 14 year old boy who just made an 8 year old feel that way? Rapists sicken me, there is just no excuse in hell.

I have a different example for you. Let's say that there is this 18 year old. He was mentally ill and bereft of any sense of right and wrong or where the line is. One day he rapes a friend. Would you send a man to jail who has absolutely incapable of understanding why that was wrong on even the most basic level?

To put it simply; yes. Or at least in solitary confinement where he's away from all members of the public. Ill or not, he's not safe to be around.

 

[AFC1986]

In no situation is the victim at fault. No matter what the male/female is wearing, no matter how drunk they are, there is no excuse for raping people and rapists make me sick as they traumatise their victims and deserve to go to jail as they have committed an illegal act. What sickens me about people females who get raped is when judges let the piece of crap go scot free because she was drunk or wore provocative clothing. That shouldn't matter as they have not consented, so why do rapists think they have the right to violate that person

 

[King of Kings HHH]

Rape is a serious crime. It is in no way shape or form the victims fault. She/He was just brutally raped you cannon't tell me she was asking for it. If the victim is coming on to you so what. Yes, maybe she is coming onto you but that dosen't warrant you to rape her. One you go in to do that and "she says no" or "get off me" and you contuine doing it. That is rape. How in gods name can it be her fault she just got attacked. She didn't or he didn't ask for it.

 

[Richard]

I don't think you will find a single person who will argue this point siding with the rapists.

You musn't have heard about the former Islamic Sheik, Taj El-Din Elhilali or however you spell his name. He was the former Islamic Sheik which I believe is an Islamic spiritual leader or advisor at a mosque. He compared women to a piece of uncovered meat and said women were to blame because of the way they dress.

I don't agree with him however, I agree with the rest in saying it is never the victims fault.

No = no and it's a shame that there are people who are too desperate who can't accept that.

 

[Richard]

Well in England, minimum wage is around £4 an hour I believe. That being said, being a prostitute earns you 25x more. For arguably doing less work. I don't know the ins and outs of being a prostitute (No pun intended), but I can see why people who are desperate turn to this.

Hm, so if my calculations are correct, it's about $160. I don't think that the people who do it enjoy it, they are just doing it to earn a larger amount of money in a shorter amount of time.

Rape isn't about sex though.

Saying that a rapist rapes not for sex, but for the power aspect is like saying a person who murders witnesses, murders them because they can, rather than killing witnesses to shut them up, which is why they do it. Rapists rape for sex. The rapists are doing it because they want sex and they don't care about womens feelings and are willing to do anything to get sex.

And if the guy had it in him to rape in the first place, he wouldn't bother paying for a prostitue in the first place. He'd just always have raped someone.

All right, I'll give you that. lol.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Hm, so if my calculations are correct, it's about $160. I don't think that the people who do it enjoy it, they are just doing it to earn a larger amount of money in a shorter amount of time.

Exactly why they do it. I don't believe there are many prostitutes who enjoy their job.

Saying that a rapist rapes not for sex, but for the power aspect is like saying a person who murders witnesses, murders them because they can, rather than killing witnesses to shut them up. Which is why they do it, rapists rape for sex. The rapists are doing it because they want sex and they don't care about womens feelings and are willing to do anything to get sex.

You can go to a bar and pick up a woman easily if you want sex and nothing more. Rapists have ADMITTED wanting power over their victims. Rape is a power crime, not a sex one. If it was, for a start all the victims would be tall, blonde and skinny. They'd be generally attractive. It's not the case. The women are just in a place at a certain time. The rapist doesn't go out looking for sex. He goes out to take control off of someone.

 

[Richard]

You can go to a bar and pick up a woman easily if you want sex and nothing more. Rapists have ADMITTED wanting power over their victims. Rape is a power crime, not a sex one. If it was, for a start all the victims would be tall, blonde and skinny. They'd be generally attractive. It's not the case. The women are just in a place at a certain time. The rapist doesn't go out looking for sex. He goes out to take control off of someone.

You are entitled to have your opinion, this is mine though.

I think people say what you are saying because you are looking at it through the eyes of the victim, for whom, the violence in the crime is usually the major issue, not the fact he or she has had sex and they would usually be bothered by the violence and that is what people generally focus on, the MEANS by which the rapist got the sex.

We see that the violence has shaken her up, so of course, this must have been the goal of the rapist right? To use violence to shake her up? No, the goal of the rapist was to get sex.

 

[HBK-aholic]

You are entitled to have your opinion, this is mine though.

I agree you are entitled to your opinion. But I disagree, hence the reason I'm debating.

I think people say what you are saying because you are looking at it through the eyes of the victim, for whom, the violence in the crime is usually the major issue, not the fact he or she has had sex and they would usually be bothered by the violence and that is what people generally focus on, the MEANS by which the rapist got the sex.

The rape itself, compared to what comes after for the victim, means nothing.

We see that the violence has shaken her up, so of course, this must have been the goal of the rapist right? To use violence to shake her up? No, the goal of the rapist was to get sex.

The goal of the rapist is to get power over his victim. Rape is a power thing, nothing more. Many rapists are married. In a relationship. Etc. If it was simply about sex they'd be able to get that at home. There are hundreds of ways to meet a woman and get sex without rape coming into it.

 

[Richard]

The goal of the rapist is to get power over his victim. Rape is a power thing, nothing more. Many rapists are married. In a relationship. Etc. If it was simply about sex they'd be able to get that at home. There are hundreds of ways to meet a woman and get sex without rape coming into it.

The goal of the rapist is to get sex, not for the control and power aspect because they don't give two shits about the womans feelings or about her in general, the only thing they care about is that the woman has something the guy wants, two breasts and a vagina.

Cambridge dictionary defines the action rape as "to force someone to have sex". A rapist is a person who does the raping and is a person who forces someone, why, to have sex.

 

[HBK-aholic]

The goal of the rapist is to get sex, not for the control and power aspect because they don't give two shits about the womans feelings or about her in general, the only thing they care about is that the woman has something the guy wants, two breasts and a vagina.

They don't care about the womens feelings. Thsi is obvious as they're taking away all her rights. What do they care about? Giving themselves control OVER her.

Cambridge dictionary defines the action rape as "to force someone to have sex". A rapist is a person who does the raping and is a person who forces someone, why, to have sex.

What about domestic violence then? Does the husband just beat his wife because he feels like hitting someone? No. He does it because he wants to have CONTROL over his wife.

 

[Richard]

They don't care about the womens feelings. Thsi is obvious as they're taking away all her rights. What do they care about? Giving themselves control OVER her.

They care about the sex. Yes, there are power and control aspects involved, but the reason people rape other people is to get sex.

The goal of the rapist is to get power over his victim.

This was from your other post which I didn't talk about in my last post. Why do you think the rapist is trying to get power over his victim? So he can get sex which is the reason he is raping in the first place.

When a potential rapist goes onto the streets in search of a victim, I would assume that said potential rapist goes out, looking for victims who they think are sexually attractive. What you said before about if this was true then all the rapists would be blonde, tall and skinny or something couldn't be further from reality.

It's called fetishes, some people might be into fat girls or, girls with a certain hair colour, or girls of a certain race so saying that all people who are raped for sex are girls who are blonde, skinny and tall is incorrect.

Rapists chose their victims because they find them sexually attractive and want to have sex with them.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Lawls, no they do not. Rapists do not choose the girls they think are hot. They choose the women who look vulnerable. Maybe elderly, or young. Maybe alone. Their physical appearance means very little to these men? Why? Because it's not the sexual kicks they're after. It's the feeling of having power over someone. Of being in complete control.

 

[Richard]

Lawls, no they do not. Rapists do not choose the girls they think are hot. They choose the women who look vulnerable. Maybe elderly, or young. Maybe alone. Their physical appearance means very little to these men? Why? Because it's not the sexual kicks they're after. It's the feeling of having power over someone. Of being in complete control.

No, it does matter. The point you make about they choose womeon who are vulnerable has some and I emphasise SOME merit because a rapist wouldn't rape someone infront of everyone at a shopping centre but when you say that maybe elderly people, think about this. I do not watch it, but why do you think they make granny porn? For the people that are sexually excited by elderly people and the people who go after the grannies could actually, for some sick reason, find them sexually attractive and may want to act out what they saw on their computer screens. These people have fetishes and sometimes target women who cater to their fetish or fetishes.

If what you are saying is true, that rape is not about sex but about control, then why not just go and bash a woman? They rape people because it involves what they want, SEX.

The effect of the rape which scars the victim the most is the violence side and this is the effect of the incident that people look at and assume that this was the intention of the rapist, to screw (no pun intended) with her emotions.

I would like to quote someone now, his name is Nick Erikson.

"Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal."

It is a terrible ordeal yes, but only the emotional side which has been scarred by the violence.

Seems like we can agree to disagree? I don't see either one of our opinions changing lol.

 

[HBK-aholic]

No, it does matter. The point you make about they choose womeon who are vulnerable has some and I emphasise SOME merit because a rapist wouldn't rape someone infront of everyone at a shopping centre but when you say that maybe elderly people, think about this. I do not watch it, but why do you think they make granny porn? For the people that are sexually excited by elderly people and the people who go after the grannies could actually, for some sick reason, find them sexually attractive and may want to act out what they saw on their computer screens. These people have fetishes and sometimes target women who cater to their fetish or fetishes.

I suddenly feel really ill. You've completely missed the point and taken this into a whole new world. You really think the elderly are raped because someone has a 'Granny fetish'?

If what you are saying is true, that rape is not about sex but about control, then why not just go and bash a woman? They rape people because it involves what they want, SEX.

They want control. They just use sex as a way to get that. Just like in domestic violence they use words or punches to get control over their victim, in rape they use sex. There isn't much more to it.

The effect of the rape which scars the victim the most is the violence side and this is the effect of the incident that people look at and assume that this was the intention of the rapist, to screw (no pun intended) with her emotions.

I would like to quote someone now, his name is Nick Erikson.

"Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal."

It is a terrible ordeal yes, but only the emotional side which has been scarred by the violence.

Seems like we can agree to disagree? I don't see either one of our opinions changing lol.

I nearly was fucking sick to my stomach. The fact that anyone can ever say that almost makes me wish they were raped. Granted, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but I would LOVE for him to say that after it had. Is ignorance like this even still about today?

Rape is not 'simply sex'. They are probably 2 of the most different things in the world. He honestly doesn't see the difference between sleeping with your husband willingly, and being forced to hacve sex with a stranger in a graveyard? Yeah, rape isn't bad at all .

 

[Richard]

I suddenly feel really ill. You've completely missed the point and taken this into a whole new world. You really think the elderly are raped because someone has a 'Granny fetish'?

Not all, but do you seriously believe what you said when you said that all victims who are raped, are blonde, skinny and tall to be true?

They want control. They just use sex as a way to get that. Just like in domestic violence they use words or punches to get control over their victim, in rape they use sex. There isn't much more to it.

Why do they want control though? To have sex of course because without it, they can't get what they set out for, sex.

I nearly was fucking sick to my stomach. The fact that anyone can ever say that almost makes me wish they were raped. Granted, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but I would LOVE for him to say that after it had. Is ignorance like this even still about today?

Yes, the article I read was fairly recent, this man lives in the UK I believe. I'm going to assume you havn't heard anything of him. If I find the article again, I will post the link.

Rape is not 'simply sex'. They are probably 2 of the most different things in the world. He honestly doesn't see the difference between sleeping with your husband willingly, and being forced to hacve sex with a stranger in a graveyard? Yeah, rape isn't bad at all .

One could make the argument that rape is not 'simply control' either. I will acknowledge that power and control is a factor in rape cases because nobody with common sense is going to rape someone stronger.

Cleary there is a difference, as one is with consent and one is without consent, but both involve the same objective, to get sex.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Not all, but do you seriously believe what you said when you said that all victims who are raped, are blonde, skinny and tall to be true?

I obviously don't actually believe that, seeings as I don't believe rapists target people simply because they want to have sex with them because they think they're 'hot'.

Why do they want control though? To have sex of course because without it, they can't get what they set out for, sex.

They set out to take advantage of someone. To get power. If all they wanted was sex they could go to a brothel, or a club. Or an ex-girlfriends. Anything similar.

Yes, the article I read was fairly recent, this man lives in the UK I believe. I'm going to assume you havn't heard anything of him. If I find the article again, I will post the link.

I've never heard of him. His house may be firebombed when I do. I'm half joking.

One could make the argument that rape is not 'simply control' either. I will acknowledge that power and control is a factor in rape cases because nobody with common sense is going to rape someone stronger.

Yes. But the point is they don't go out and rape simply because they're so turned on. It doesn't work that way.

Cleary there is a difference, as one is with consent and one is without consent, but both involve the same objective, to get sex.

Rapists couldn't give a damn about the physical pleasure they recieve. I don't really think a woman he's forcing to lie still on the ground is going to be a good sex partner, do you?

 

[Richard]

I've never heard of him. His house may be firebombed when I do. I'm half joking.

It wouldn't suprise me if something already happened to his house.

Yes. But the point is they don't go out and rape simply because they're so turned on. It doesn't work that way.

It's not like they wake up and think to themselves, "Gosh, you know what, I'm in the mood to control someone today." though. If they never cared about the sex, then why rape a woman? Why not just mug her for her wallet/handbag/purse/mobile?

Rapists couldn't give a damn about the physical pleasure they recieve. I don't really think a woman he's forcing to lie still on the ground is going to be a good sex partner, do you?

This goes back to what I said before about fetishes, what if said rapist had a rape fetish? If they did, they would like the idea of the woman being scared and stuff, it's a sick world I know, but it's true, there would be people out there like that.

 

[HBK-aholic]

It wouldn't suprise me if something already happened to his house.

I hope so.

It's not like they wake up and think to themselves, "Gosh, you know what, I'm in the mood to control someone today." though. If they never cared about the sex, then why rape a woman? Why not just mug her for her wallet/handbag/purse/mobile?

Because when they go for items like that, the intention usually is money. They will most likely sell the phone/MP3 player, and spend her money. There is a huge difference between rape and being mugged, however both are as bad as each other.

This goes back to what I said before about fetishes, what if said rapist had a rape fetish? If they did, they would like the idea of the woman being scared and stuff, it's a sick world I know, but it's true, there would be people out there like that.

There is no such things as a rape fetish. Fact! Rape is FORCED sex. You can't 'want' rape. It sickens me that I've heard women say they want to be raped. If you want it top happen it isn't rape. They want rough/dominant sex. There is a major difference.

 

[Tastycles]

"Rape is simply sex. Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal. It's like force feeding them chocolate cake"

This man was actually in the BNP and he said it on his Sir John Bull blog, which is a beacon of stupidity. He actually got kicked out of the party for this, which is no easy feat.

It sickens me that I've heard women say they want to be raped.

Not really the same, but I've heard someone say that they wouldn't mind it. Needless to say people went pretty mental at her, and rightly so.

To Richard, I would say to think that rape is an outlet for sexual gratification is completely wrong. Sex addiction, as David Duchovny has recently been diagnosed with, is as much of a sex fixation as you can possibly have, and there have been precisely zero rapists that cite sex addiction as a defence. People who rape are doing it for control, or for some other deep seated psychological reason. If you wanted sex, you'd go to a prostitute.

People who are raped are often robbed too into the bargain. I disagree that rape and robbery are as bad as each other. You can replace posessions, you can't placate the feelings that arise from a rape. I've been robbed a couple of times, all within a year of each other, and I'm not really bothered by it now. If I was raped, I'm sure it'd be a whole other kettle of fish.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I've moved these posts to this thread, as I thought they'd be more fitting in here.

People who are raped are often robbed too into the bargain. I disagree that rape and robbery are as bad as each other. You can replace posessions, you can't placate the feelings that arise from a rape. I've been robbed a couple of times, all within a year of each other, and I'm not really bothered by it now. If I was raped, I'm sure it'd be a whole other kettle of fish.

This I say simply because A) I don't know how it would feel, and B) it's still someone taking advantage of you but in a different way. Granted, I think I'd prefer to be robbed. But I think either way it'd scare me, make me not want to leave the house, and make it hard to trust people, especially ones you don't know very well, or have something that remind you of the attacker. So yeah, I've never been robbed to know, I'm just assuming, could be wrong.

 

[Richard]

It is never the victims fault, no means no and if you're that ******ed that you misinterpret the word "no" then you deserve to be brought to justice. It will always be the rapists fault.

There was an Islamic Sheik in Western Sydney, in a suburb called Lakemba, about 15 minutes from my suburb and he compared women to pieces of meat and said something a long the lines of the best looking ones get raped so you have to cover up, something like that.

I don't agree with him at all, a woman should be able to go outside wearing a skirt, wearing a short sleeve shirt or whatever she wants to wear and be able to feel comfortable with what she is wearing and not have to think about getting raped.

 

[Prodigy]

in my opinion no it is not the girls fault but shockey has a point. the girl cannot control it but if u dress like a **** ur bassicly asking for it. even though they bassicly dress and act like a **** that gives no right to the man to have sex without her agreement. in short no its not the girls fault but i see shockys point

 

[HBK-aholic]

If you have a low cut top on you're asking to be raped? I suppose shops should just stop selling them, yeah? Because we're causing all these girls to ask to be raped. How the hell do you ask to be raped anyway? If you ask, it isn't rape.

No blame at all should be put on the victim, especially in the form of "She asked for it". Which is by far one of the worst things I've heard on this forum.