Is rape ever the 'victims' fault?

[Gavel]

One major issue with the "Oh, you dress like a ****, you were asking for it", is that if you look at it, yah, prostitues get raped, but a decent amount to all are just random people like you or me, average Janes. Well, except in were, for the most part, dudes. They are just dressed jeans and a T-shirt, or a jogging suit or something.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that dressing ****ty is wrong or anything. Because, personally, I have no problem looking at you if your dressed ****ty. But, this does not mean that you should be raped, because if you think like it, you must have some serious issues. Although, there are some people who do think like this, Oh, shes dressing like that just for me, she must want to have sex with me.

 

[Joaquim Akaem]

It's no different then a black guy dressed like a rapper decked out in Fubu gear getting pulled over all the time either. It's the image. If you want to look like a rapper or thug, the police are going to treat you in kind, and I have no problem with this. Likewise with white guys going around in wife beaters looking like white trash or dressing up like Wiggers. Your image is the first impression people make of you, and if you dress like a stereotype, then you shoulder the blame.

No matter what stereotype people may dress like, there is still no excuse for anybody to commit crimes against them.

I can imagine it now.

"Why did you steal from that man?"
"Don't blame me officer, he was wearing a nice suit and a gold watch. He deserved to get mugged."
"Oh well that's ok then"

Being judged by a certain stereotype is one thing, but being a targeted victim simply because of the way you dress is completley different.

 

[dirtyshubb]

Its not about if you wear a certain thing than you deserve to be a victim of crime just that people need to realise that there are certain risks in this day and age that you have to be prepared for and dressing like a **** and getting as pissed as you can is going to increase those risks, especially when you cant defend yourself.

No one is saying "she is dressed like a **** so she should be raped" just that maybe you shouldnt be dressing like that because it WILL draw some either unwanted or even dangerous attention.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Oh well in that case, no men should walk around topless, it draws unwanted attention. Actually men in uniform get attention as well, let's stop that. STOP accepting rape. It just makes it so much easier for people to defend what they've done. By saying wearing revealing clothing women ask for attention, it just makes it seem okay for people to give them that unwanted attention. and there's a big difference between a guy looking at you, and one forcing you to have sex.

 

[Father:_Polley]

Wearing revealing clothes does attract attention...but its the person's mind makes them unable to restrain themselves from raping them. Revealing clothes do attract attention, but they dont lead to rape. People in the wrong place at wrong time get raped as well so its not a direct link

 

[dirtyshubb]

You are going a bit too far with the uniform comment but as for men walking around without a top i am all for having that banned as it something i cant stand.

Just a point wasnt this whole thread about if there is any circumstances where the victim should shoulder some responsibility not if rape is wrong or wright because we are all in agreement that it is very wrong and no one should have to go through that.

No offence but it seems that as a woman you are taking it very personally and its you are dissmissing any scenario people are coming up with and i understand that but you have to understand im not condoning rape, i know how it effects people as i have a couple of people that i love who have been through that, but that doesnt escape the fact that some women put themselves in situations where the chance of being raped increases dramatically just because of stupid descision on their part that could easily be avoided.

Now im not saying it wouldnt have happened if they did take my advise as you cant always stop these things but damn some women need to take responsiblity and realise if you dress like a **** and get drunk, and i dont mean a bit revealing i mean like the sort of slappers you find pissed out of their head and passed out on the street wearing nothing but a couple of bits of string than shit like this COULD happen and maybe you should forget your 'Rights' and act responsibly instead of being stubbon and doing/drinking/wearing whatever you want because you could put yourself in danger.

All im saying is some people need to grow up and realise that if you act this way then you are putting yourself in danger and if anything does happen can you honestly say you did enough to try and avoid these dangerous scenarios?
If you can than maybe there is no hope for some.

 

[HBK-aholic]

You are going a bit too far with the uniform comment but as for men walking around without a top i am all for having that banned as it something i cant stand.

Just a point wasnt this whole thread about if there is any circumstances where the victim should shoulder some responsibility not if rape is wrong or wright because we are all in agreement that it is very wrong and no one should have to go through that.

No offence but it seems that as a woman you are taking it very personally and its you are dissmissing any scenario people are coming up with and i understand that but you have to understand im not condoning rape, i know how it effects people as i have a couple of people that i love who have been through that, but that doesnt escape the fact that some women put themselves in situations where the chance of being raped increases dramatically just because of stupid descision on their part that could easily be avoided.

Now im not saying it wouldnt have happened if they did take my advise as you cant always stop these things but damn some women need to take responsiblity and realise if you dress like a **** and get drunk, and i dont mean a bit revealing i mean like the sort of slappers you find pissed out of their head and passed out on the street wearing nothing but a couple of bits of string than shit like this COULD happen and maybe you should forget your 'Rights' and act responsibly instead of being stubbon and doing/drinking/wearing whatever you want because you could put yourself in danger.

All im saying is some people need to grow up and realise that if you act this way then you are putting yourself in danger and if anything does happen can you honestly say you did enough to try and avoid these dangerous scenarios?
If you can than maybe there is no hope for some.

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head here. I mean, this is what I've said about accepting rape all along. People shouldn't have to live in fear they will be raped, or mugged, or anything else for that matter. It's like socirty now accepts that it will happen, instead of fighting against it. I mean, this whole thread is people talking about how women can stop it, rather than how we can fight againt it in general.

As for me taking it personally, I aren't taking it as a personal thing against me, but I'm taking it as something for people that have been through such a thing, and find it really hard to go to the poilce, due to attitudes like these, saying she shouldn't wear what she does, passing blame partially on to her.

As for alcohol, we've scratched on the situation before. And in my opinion it causes more harm than good. There is no reason for it, and if it could be banned easily I'd be for that. But it isn't, and alcohol is available to everyone. And whilst I find it irresponsible of people who go out and get drunk every night etc. I don't think in any way it condones rape. There are guys out there who go out looking for a woman to rape, regardless of her situation. A woman dressing in what she wants doesn't mean "rape me". It's simply people putting blame on her making it seem okay.

So, I understand your point of view, but as I said it's accepting rape, which in my opinion is completely wrong.

 

[dirtyshubb]

I dont think my point is condoning rape but i do understand your point about it, its almost accepting it but at the same time you do have to accept it because it DOES happen and you do have to not necessarily live in fear but you do have to accept the fact it happens.

Yes its very wrong but people do go out there either looking to rape vulnerable women or take advatage of an opportunity that comes their way and because of that you have to act accordingly in certain situations, we cant change this overnight or maybe even ever because they will always be people who are messed up enough to do this.

Its not ever about an action condoning rape but increasing the risk of a very real threat that does happen all the time in the world, i mean i wonder what the statistics of rape are across the world on a daily basis (although we would never know the true figure).

Sadly in this world there are many things that we should be able to do but cant because of the possible things that could happen as a result of said actions but thats the way it is and there is nothing we can do about it for now other than act accordingly and try to minimize the possibility of these things happening to us.

 

[Papa Shango]

The only way rape could ever remotely be considered the victim's fault, is if a woman were to be jogging down the street naked, handing out Viagra and singing along to
Nirvana's "Rape Me" on her headphones. But since that situation seems highly implausible, I would have to say that rape is NEVER the victim's fault.

 

[Kasey]

Rape of any kind is abhorrent as far as I'm concerned. This is one of the reasons why I'm still a big supporter of inhumane and creative methods of punishment for offenders. Like to rape women? Great. We'll just let some large guys have their way with you while you're pinned face down to the floor. And as for someone dressing provocatively and being "responsible" for that? Horseshit times ten. Look, if a chick dresses hot/trashy/****ty or whatever, then they need not be appalled when guys check them out. You wave your tits around and get shocked when someone looks at them, get a fucking clue and wear a sweatshirt or follow Amish dressing standards. But rape is different. That's personal violation of space and it isn't cool one bit. Look...but you damn sure better not touch.

 

[NYSandman]

Kind of sad this thread was even started. Rape is never, EVER the victim's fault. Period. Not once in history.

A woman has the right to wear WHAT she wants WHEN she wants without some piece of shit animal raping her. When a woman says no, that's exactly what it means. I don't care if a girl is wearing a thong bikini in the crack-dealing part of town. She has a RIGHT to do so.

Now, if a woman is dressed seductively, men WILL look. I think that is okay, and I think most women understand our sexual drives and will expect looks when they dress a little sexy. But hell, if you're dressing that way, you probably want to be noticed.

It gives no one, NO ONE the right to rape, and scumbag, garbage, lowlife, should get cancer and die a horrible death lawyers are absolute monsters for ever trying to blame the victim.

Any man who rapes a woman, violates her mentally and physically should have his testicles removed and fed to him. I'm serious. Cut off, cooked however the criminal wants them, and then eaten.

The definition of rape is forcible sex. If a crime is classified as rape, it is never, EVER the victim's fault.

 

[3rd Degree Burn]

Its never the victim's fault.

Once the woman says no. That's it. The dude should just get off of her, plain and simple. It doesn't matter the way she dresses. Even if she was naked nobody still has a right to rape her.

 

[Gavel]

Rape of any kind is abhorrent as far as I'm concerned. This is one of the reasons why I'm still a big supporter of inhumane and creative methods of punishment for offenders. Like to rape women? Great. We'll just let some large guys have their way with you while you're pinned face down to the floor. And as for someone dressing provocatively and being "responsible" for that? Horseshit times ten. Look, if a chick dresses hot/trashy/****ty or whatever, then they need not be appalled when guys check them out. You wave your tits around and get shocked when someone looks at them, get a fucking clue and wear a sweatshirt or follow Amish dressing standards. But rape is different. That's personal violation of space and it isn't cool one bit. Look...but you damn sure better not touch.

Glad I decided to come check out the chit chat forum again. Kasey, this is one of the greatest posts. I completely agree on the way to punish them. Oh, you get off with making someone defenseless and powerless? Well, if your cruel to them, have a cruel and unusual punishment yourself.

If anyone, and I mean anyone, condones the rape of a person, be it male or female, they are either a) fucked up beyond belief, b) a rapist, or c) the guy who you went to school with who ate paste.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I agree also. If you dress like that you should never be shocked guys look at you, there isn't a problem with guys looking, and if you honestly get offended by it there's something wrong with you. You can't stop people looking at you no matter what you wear, only difference is if you dress provactively expect more looks. Truth is if you dress like that your reasoning was probably to get guys to look at you in the first place.

As for them being punished, having someone rape them seems like a great idea, but truthfully - will never happen. and I can say it with 100% confidence. Personally, I think the bastards deserve it, but for a start it'd never be legal in any way. But more importantly, we can't expect people, no matter who they are, to rape someone. Whether they offer to do it or not is irrelavent. It's almost like breeding a new generation of rapists.

When it comes to forcible rape, personally I think castration is the way to go. Chop it off if you ask me. That's the only way to stop them doing it again. Who gives a shit if it'll stop them having sex in later life? I don't. They should have thought of that before raping someone. And what could be a better deterant?

 

[HBK-aholic]

I was reading the newspaper for the first time in a while today, and I came across 2 articles which made me want to kill people. Both were awful, and people who are supposed to be there to help rape victims and to protect, did not do that.

First of all, 14 rape victims had compensation cut due to alcohol being involved in their attacks. I think this is awful. An interview with one of the women said it made her feel they were blaming her for it. Which is exactly how I would feel. It's almost as if they're punishing the women for drinking. It doesn't matter how much she'd had to drink, it does not give anyone the right to rape her.

Second of all, a 14 year old boy was found guilty of raping an 8 year old boy yet he didn't get a prison/young offenders sentence. He pleaded guilty, and his defence said he did so because he was also subjected to rape at a young age. Who cares? I don't give a shit if he was raped before, nothing gives him the right to rape someone else. I mean, in this instance it'd be okay for me to go out and rape someone because I'd been through the same thing. It makes no sense. This means there are thousands of people capable of raping and getting away with it. Which would make another few thousand capable of it.

14 years old is not in any way too young to know it was wrong. Rape is always wrong. And 14 year olds know that, anyone who claims otherwise is mistaken hugely. People forget how much you know at that age. He should have been sentenced to AT LEAST 10 years in prison. However personally I think rapists deserve life. And when I say life, I mean life. Not let out in 15 years.

 

[Tim]

Wow, a 14 year old boy charged for rape!? That's seriously sick.
I agree. It doesn't matter how young you are, you should still know right from wrong. I'm 14, but that doesn't give me an excuse to go out and commit a crime. Even if he was raped before, it still doeswn't give him a reason to rape someone else. He knows how it feels, so why would he subject another human to it? And as Becca said, if this was true that means there are thousands of people who are allowed to rape another human being. Just because you are young, it doesn't mean you should be let off the hook if you have comitted a crime. You know that it was wrong, and you know the consequences, so why should you get away with it?

 

[Sparky]

First of all, 14 rape victims had compensation cut due to alcohol being involved in their attacks. I think this is awful.

Personally I dont. If Alcohol was invloved and there was no witnesses How are you to know if it was forced. Especially if it was the girls first time. if it was alcohol she could of wanted to do it on impulse then the next morning freaked and decided to call it rape. It happens alot.

An interview with one of the women said it made her feel they were blaming her for it.

Its not blaming them its Just basically saying all the facts cant point to non consentual if there is grog invlolved.

Second of all, a 14 year old boy was found guilty of raping an 8 year old boy yet he didn't get a prison/young offenders sentence. He pleaded guilty, and his defence said he did so because he was also subjected to rape at a young age. Who cares?

I agree here. I hear this all the time, He got off it becouse he had been raped at a young age. oh he will be a rapist when he is older seeing he was raped. Being Raped does not mean you have the right to rape somebody else. What will raping somebody do for you? It wont help you ease the pain. all it is doing is dragging somebody else down.

14 years old is not in any way too young to know it was wrong. Rape is always wrong. And 14 year olds know that, anyone who claims otherwise is mistaken hugely.

There is a few cases where this is false. My brother is 14 and has MAJOR learning difficultys. He dont know the difference between a car and a boat. and i know many 14 yearolds the same (due to line of work) but I know this is what i am going against back up previously if somebody with major "brain damage" was raped and they did it again they should be let off but should be sent to a mental insitute.

However personally I think rapists deserve life. And when I say life, I mean life. Not let out in 15 years.

I have always felt the best thing to do would be like the movie Johnny English. find an Island and dump them all there. Let them live together. punish them if a rapist rapes a rapist whats it going to do? Nothing. I used to think the death penalty was the best option but now i see that its the easy way out.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Personally I dont. If Alcohol was invloved and there was no witnesses How are you to know if it was forced. Especially if it was the girls first time. if it was alcohol she could of wanted to do it on impulse then the next morning freaked and decided to call it rape. It happens alot. Its not blaming them its Just basically saying all the facts cant point to non consentual if there is grog invlolved.

All the facts can NEVER point to rape being rape. It is so easy to say she consented and changed her mind, much as you're doing now. There are a few girls who do this. They're close to the scum of the Earth is you ask me. However these women had already been through gruelling court cases to prove they WERE raped. To say she shouldn't get as much money because she'd been drinking gives the impression she shouldn't be surprised she was raped because she'd been drinking.

I agree here. I hear this all the time, He got off it becouse he had been raped at a young age. oh he will be a rapist when he is older seeing he was raped. Being Raped does not mean you have the right to rape somebody else. What will raping somebody do for you? It wont help you ease the pain. all it is doing is dragging somebody else down.

Exactly. It'd just make me feel even worse I'd caused someone that amaount of pain. It isn't an excuse at all. If anything it just makes you worse as you know exactly who it'll make someone feel but still do it anyway.

There is a few cases where this is false. My brother is 14 and has MAJOR learning difficultys. He dont know the difference between a car and a boat. and i know many 14 yearolds the same (due to line of work) but I know this is what i am going against back up previously if somebody with major "brain damage" was raped and they did it again they should be let off but should be sent to a mental insitute.

If it was the situation of someone like your brother, then he wouldn't be able to rape someone in the first place I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it was that bad they wouldn't understand sex in the first place. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just highly unlikely. If someone had severe learning difficulties and raped someone, as you said they should be sent to a mental institute. Here, they aren't being subjected to prison, but are still being kept away from other people in society for the protection.

I have always felt the best thing to do would be like the movie Johnny English. find an Island and dump them all there. Let them live together. punish them if a rapist rapes a rapist whats it going to do? Nothing. I used to think the death penalty was the best option but now i see that its the easy way out.

The death penalty I'm in 2 minds about. I agree with it happening now, and will continue to do so until life in prison actually means life. There are only 2 ways to make sure an attacker doesn't attack someone again. 1, death by the death penalty. 2, life in prison. As they're being kept in an environment where there is no one for them to hurt.

 

[Sparky]

If it was the situation of someone like your brother, then he wouldn't be able to rape someone in the first place I believe.

Actually my brother is a sleaze, He dont know what he is doing is wrong. I have saved him from doing shit that would get him killed heaps of times. when i bring a GF home he goes all touchy feely on them and he thinks he is just joking around, no matter how many times i tell him to get out of it he wont listen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it was that bad they wouldn't understand sex in the first place.

My brother is Still a Daly. he understands sex to the degree he wants it and knows what to do (without ever doing it)

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, just highly unlikely.

But people like that well my bro for instance got called cassonova once and he thinks now that doing what he does is acceptable. If you was to come round to stay I bet you a million dollars he would try cracking onto you or try to feel you up straight away. i Suppose its my exs girlfriends fault she laughed when he first did it to her and now he thinks its allowed.

.If someone had severe learning difficulties and raped someone, as you said they should be sent to a mental institute. Here, they aren't being subjected to prison, but are still being kept away from other people in society for the protection.

Yes they dont deserve to be punished but other people still deserve to be protected.

The death penalty I'm in 2 minds about. I agree with it happening now, and will continue to do so until life in prison actually means life. There are only 2 ways to make sure an attacker doesn't attack someone again. 1, death by the death penalty. 2, life in prison. As they're being kept in an environment where there is no one for them to hurt.

What would you prefer? life in prison for the next 60 odd years? or death I know what i would prefer i would prefer to die. Death is the easy way out. No pain no punishment. its something that happens to everyone. unlike punishment.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I'm going to leave the things with your brother now, because I don't want to come across as disrespectful, or say something which you could personally find offensive.

As for the death penalty, I would prefer for them to be looked up for the rest of their life. However as it stands now you can escape prison for raping someone. Or you can get something like 6 years. That means absolutely nothing. So if it's a choice between 6 years and death, I'd give them death. But if it's a choice between 60 years and death, I'd give them the 60 years. Just as long as they're out of society forever.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

I would never say rape was the "victims" fault, because it isn't. Some people bring up the fact that some girls dress like "****s", take scandals pictures of themselves, and act very friendley. People say this sends the wrong message that she wants to have sex so thats why guys do it. But even if she is acting like a ho, it doesn;t give anyone the right to force themselves on to another person. Their is however a "grey" area. What if the girls doesn;t want to have sex but doesn't say anything, is that still considered rape since the guy maybe can;t tell? As for rapist themselves you have to be pretty pathetic and desperate to rape anyone and I say send them to prision and they will most likely know how it feels.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I would never say rape was the "victims" fault, because it isn't. Some people bring up the fact that some girls dress like "****s", take scandals pictures of themselves, and act very friendley. People say this sends the wrong message that she wants to have sex so thats why guys do it. But even if she is acting like a ho, it doesn;t give anyone the right to force themselves on to another person. Their is however a "grey" area. What if the girls doesn;t want to have sex but doesn't say anything, is that still considered rape since the guy maybe can;t tell? As for rapist themselves you have to be pretty pathetic and desperate to rape anyone and I say send them to prision and they will most likely know how it feels.

First of all, this is a great post, one I completely agree with. As for the part in bold.

If it's say, in the case of a couple who are 'in the mood' together, and end up having sex without a definite yes, I don't think that's rape. I mean, she could have said no. If she made no attempt to say she didn't want it, and they were being like that anyway I don't think the gyu should be classified as a rapist.

But in the case of her being too drunk/drugged up to give consent, I would call that rape and by law it is. If someone was passed out unconcious at a party and a guy got on top of her and began to have sex with her, she didn't consent to it.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

But in the case of her being too drunk/drugged up to give consent, I would call that rape and by law it is. If someone was passed out unconcious at a party and a guy got on top of her and began to have sex with her, she didn't consent to it.

Oh I completley agree. This is not in the grey area at all. If the girl has been drugged and is unconcious than nobody has the right to do anything to her even if she can;t say no. And if she's drunk in reality she can't really give consent. It's the same as why in some countries you can't make a legal contract if your drunk since your not in your right mind. This makes it difficult and tricky as part of the law since if both people are drunk and the girl doesn;t say anything or even says yes...is this rape? Can we blame the guy? But in the end it's never the victims fault, IMO anyways.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Hmm, see there's a differnce between being drunk, and being flat our unconcious. If she is simply drunk and says yes to sex, the guy cannot be blamed for rape because she consented. If she was drugged it's a whole other matter as she didn't choose to get in that position.

But if she's passed out and can't say anything, that's rape because she didn't give consent.

 

[Murfish]

I was reading the newspaper for the first time in a while today, and I came across 2 articles which made me want to kill people. Both were awful, and people who are supposed to be there to help rape victims and to protect, did not do that.

First of all, 14 rape victims had compensation cut due to alcohol being involved in their attacks.

That is actually a good idea. They put themselves in a situation that was not only unsafe but they also couldn't make any type of legitimate decision. Alcohol muddles with the mind and the body. It makes their accounts less reliable. It increases the chance that it wasn't actually rape. It was spawn from the fact that they put themselves in a bad situation and something bad happened to them. Now what happened isn't their fault, but they increased the odds of it happening.

I think this is awful. An interview with one of the women said it made her feel they were blaming her for it.

They were blaming her for putting herself in a bad situation, which she did. They had their compensation taken away. What a big deal. The rapist still went to jail. The fact that they increased the odds of the incident is why they lost their money.

Which is exactly how I would feel. It's almost as if they're punishing the women for drinking.

It's punishment for putting yourself in a bad situation. If you go drinking, then do it socially and in a public place. Take precautions, and make sure your friends would be worried if you were gone.

It doesn't matter how much she'd had to drink, it does not give anyone the right to rape her.

No body had the right to rape her, which is why someone still went to jail. But the feeling of the court is that she forgoes her right to monetary compensation when she enters that bar and drinks. Why, you may ask. It is because when she is drinking she has decreased the odds of her being able to defend herself.

Second of all, a 14 year old boy was found guilty of raping an 8 year old boy yet he didn't get a prison/young offenders sentence. He pleaded guilty, and his defence said he did so because he was also subjected to rape at a young age. Who cares? I don't give a shit if he was raped before, nothing gives him the right to rape someone else. I mean, in this instance it'd be okay for me to go out and rape someone because I'd been through the same thing. It makes no sense. This means there are thousands of people capable of raping and getting away with it. Which would make another few thousand capable of it.

There is a bit of a mistake here. Now I agree that he shouldn't get hard jail time, but that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be and wasn't actually punished. If he was actually raped then he has gone through a traumatic experience. It could have easily warped both him and his sense of right and wrong. Or it could even have been a case of temporary insanity. Either way, he needs a shrink or an asylum, not a prison sentence.

14 years old is not in any way too young to know it was wrong. Rape is always wrong. And 14 year olds know that, anyone who claims otherwise is mistaken hugely. People forget how much you know at that age. He should have been sentenced to AT LEAST 10 years in prison. However personally I think rapists deserve life. And when I say life, I mean life. Not let out in 15 years.

Your ability to make decisions doesn't completely develop until you are 30 first of all, but that really doesn't matter here. Do you seriously think that his growth was not affected at all by the rape? He probably needs serious therapy after the rape, which something that he probably didn't recieve.