O.k so what I mean is if you think back to when this feud started, Trips Batista and Flair vs. Orton, pretty much Evolution vs. Orton, Orton had just won the world title off Benoit (R.I.P) and he was arguably the biggest baby face at that moment! And Orton said in a promo, he is doing all of this to get revenge on Triple H, for ruining his moment in the sun back in '04! So shouldn't Randy be the good guy in all of this? Evolution screwed Orton back in '04, Orton didn't screw Evolution! He did something Triple H couldn't do! He beat Chris Benoit (R.I.P), became the world champ, and once again made Evolution the most powerful stable at that time in the WWE! And 5 years later what does he get? Hatred and the short end of the bargain, atleast he got his revenge right? Thoughts please.
Randy Orton, is he really the bad guy in all of this?
- Thread starter Sasori
- Start date
MyselfTheThird
The Crossface had a t-shirt.
FINNALY somone agrees with me. I'm tired of having to explain this to every 13-year-old wrestling fan that sees me in my Age Of Orton t-shirt (available on wweshop.com... hey, HHH can shamelessly promote merch, so can I) why I cheer for Orton through all of this. Let's face it: what you mentioned happened when some of these kids were 8 years old. They ain't gonna remember stuff that happened 5 years ago (not all of them, because I don't want to generalize and insult the one 13-year-old that knows what you and I are talking about). And the adults who cheer for HHH are simply cheering because they like HHH. He's a familiar face from their childhoods, so he is cheered for that. It's the same reason people still cheer for Y2J, although he's playing his heel character so well even his fans can't help but boo him.
Spaceman Spif
Getting Noticed By Management
I agree 100% with that, he is not the bad guy in any of this, this is all HHH/Bastita's and even Flair's doing. They deserve everything Orton has dished out to them and then some. However due to the fact that HHH is still over with the fans(don't ask me why, will not get into it) and so is Batista and so was Flair, logically if Orton goes after them he'd be a heel, plus he was a heel before he went after them. Now some might say, what about the McMahon's? Will if they would have stayed out of it Vinnie and Shane might not have been punted and Steph might not have been DDT'd. So no he shouldn't be the bad guy, but unfortunately he is and I might add, he plays it so well.
I'm not gonna lie, I seriously get a hard on and the chills when Ortons music hits. When he came out at the house show I went to, I seriously wanted to hump his leg. I'm for damn sure he's the best younger talent the WWE has to offer.
I also agree that he should be the face in this feud, but Orton just doesnt work out well as a face. The reason he's the heel, and made out to be the bad guy is due to what he did to McMahon's to further his heel push. I'm not saying that I understand the reasoning for this due to the fact that Vince usually plays the role of heel. The whole story line and feud is beyond a clusterfuck, thats why it needs to die a quick painless death via Triple H getting punted in the head again, or to doing the job to Orton cleanly, and moving on. I have seriously never wish injury on a wrestler (outside of Goldberg back in the WCW) but I'm really hoping Triple H's quad gives out soon
I also agree that he should be the face in this feud, but Orton just doesnt work out well as a face. The reason he's the heel, and made out to be the bad guy is due to what he did to McMahon's to further his heel push. I'm not saying that I understand the reasoning for this due to the fact that Vince usually plays the role of heel. The whole story line and feud is beyond a clusterfuck, thats why it needs to die a quick painless death via Triple H getting punted in the head again, or to doing the job to Orton cleanly, and moving on. I have seriously never wish injury on a wrestler (outside of Goldberg back in the WCW) but I'm really hoping Triple H's quad gives out soon
Paradox100
Pre-Show Stalwart
Know the feeling, I saw him at Raw last night awwww Orton.....
Uh, I mean, yes, Batista, Ric, and Triple H screwed Orton. Orton did the unthinkable, and beat Chris Benoit at Summerslam. I was 9 at the time, and I didn't think he could do it. He did. I was stunned, shocked, and pissed. I was a benoit fan. The very next night what happened? Batista gets Orton on his shoulders, triple does the thumbs up, and then a thumbs down, (P.S. kiddies, that's where Batista got that taunt.... The more you know!) and orton went down (no not that way) and got the shit kicked out of him. 5 years later, the guy is pissed. He should be getting cheered, and the other members of evolution should be getting on the hate train. Legacy is one of the best stables of the 2000's in my book. I'm a huge fan of Randy Orton, and being the youngest World Heavyweight Champion ever is no easy feat. Triple H was a great heel, I don't know why they keep wanting him to be the baby face.
Bottom Line, Orton is going to be around for another 15 years of wrestling full time (Unless injury god forbid) so Kiddies, you better get use to the guy.... Unless he becomes a merchandise ****e like Trips.
scabooshmoo1
Occasional Pre-Show
LOL dude you deserve a award for saying that thats funny shit.
but seriously i do explain to my little brother who is 12 years old why i also see randy orton as my favourite wrestler. he is the victim in all of this. this also shows how good the wwe is at changing peoples minds and brainwashing them to belive what ever they want you to belive.
I'll get my first opportunity to see Randy Orton this friday when they come down to New Zealand, can't wait. But, he is playing the bad guy, so I am going to boo him. I don't care that the Game was a maniac 5 years ago, I care about what's going on now. Randy Orton "assaulted" HHH's wife, father-in-law, brother-in-law and friend. He has a right to be pissed.
So, yes, he is the bad guy, because he is a heel.
So, yes, he is the bad guy, because he is a heel.
tvU_LeGenD KilleR 367
New Member
[QUOTE=RockFan89;1177867]How can someone who has punted a woman and an old man in the head be considered the good guy?[/QUOTE]
Yh he actually didn't punt steph, she was just being a winey bitch and got a ddt, orton is the victim if you look at the big picture, but regardless of whether he is face or heel or does something terrible, i would still cheer for him coz he is simoly the best
hhh just wont let go, he needs to fuck off coz he is well past his time, hurry up and pass the fuckin torch you douche
shame legacy are meant to be breaking upin the next 2 weeks
Yh he actually didn't punt steph, she was just being a winey bitch and got a ddt, orton is the victim if you look at the big picture, but regardless of whether he is face or heel or does something terrible, i would still cheer for him coz he is simoly the best
hhh just wont let go, he needs to fuck off coz he is well past his time, hurry up and pass the fuckin torch you douche
shame legacy are meant to be breaking upin the next 2 weeks
LetsGOcenaLetsGOclapclap
Dark Match Jobber
hey he kissed steph, that sounds like a nice thing to me. 
i agree that orton has been the good guy in all of this....to an extent. what kind of good guy would break into someone's house with a sledgehammer? also what kind of good guy walks around hitting people with a sledgehammer?
this seems to be a strange theme in the wwe. allow me to digress from the topic for a minute. christian has been acting like a heel and getting the crap cheered out of him. all he did in that swagger feud was cheat and then make fun of swagger's lisp when he called him out on it.
bad message to send to the children. won't somebody please think of the children?
i agree that orton has been the good guy in all of this....to an extent. what kind of good guy would break into someone's house with a sledgehammer? also what kind of good guy walks around hitting people with a sledgehammer?
this seems to be a strange theme in the wwe. allow me to digress from the topic for a minute. christian has been acting like a heel and getting the crap cheered out of him. all he did in that swagger feud was cheat and then make fun of swagger's lisp when he called him out on it.
bad message to send to the children. won't somebody please think of the children?
ncshocktheworld
New Member
I was thinking the same thing the other night during RAW. I think he's the bad guy right now just because of what he's doing to everyone, but they did screw him over 5 years ago.
Skullz Crack'Em
Lord of the Skulls
Does anyone in this thread remember how Randy Orton became the heel that he is today? He RKO'd his girlfriend Stacy Kiebler because he was obsessed with getting a WM match against Taker, and he has been heel ever since. So this logic of him really being the good guy today doesn't make sense, he was done with Triple H at that point and pursued his own career.
This is one of the most honest wrestling threads I've read. I was at the raw show when orton rko'd steph after punting shane and couldn't beleve my eyes and thougt sooner or later he's gonna be the next scsa as the anti face. Scsa was a real vindictive guy as well. dressing up as a doc to get to vinman. Eventually if orton keeps this up hell go over the same way.
TJ INSANE 1992
Dark Match Jobber
True but over HHH and Orton who do u think people would pop for more? HHH. So orton had to be the bad guy!
modest-genius
Occasional Pre-Show
If you're an Orton fan and you go and see him live you should boo him. Cheers are the worst thing you can give a heel, your basically shouting "your not doing your job properley."
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
ok, lets do a little role-play, in order to explain my point.
------------------
I am the leader of an evil team/group/faction/whatever. One of my underlings wins title that I covet. It is common knowledge that I made the evil group so I can win/keep the title. I kick underling from group & beat him up, because he has the title I covet.
5 years later, and now I have learned the errors of my previous evil ways, and have worked for the fans forgiveness (I became a good guy). My former underling, who never really did anything to become a good guy, is still evil. He, in an effort to win the title, threatens to bankrupt my families business, kicks my 62-year-old father-in-law in the head, kicks my brother-in-law in the head, and then assaults my wife; the only reason given was that he wanted to get "revenge" on me for kicking him out of the evil group I was in charge of 5 years before, that my in-laws/wife had NOTHING TO DO WITH. So now I go to defend my family from being further incapacitated, and seek revenge in their honor.
------------------
Am I a bad guy for defending my family? THE ANSWER IS NO, and if you think otherwise, you are not using your brain. The role-play above is the EXACT SAME THING AS HHH/ORTON, just without saying who is who, in order to prevent bias against HHH. If you think Orton had a reason to assault the McMahons, you are gravely mistaken. Attempting to fire someone is not cause for assaulting their boss, otherwise we would have CEO's in the hospital every day, so Vince's assault is inexcusable. The kick to Shane's head was WELL after the match ended, so there is no excuse for kicking Shane. Stephanie is a woman, and as we all know, there is no excuse for assaulting a woman, even though she slapped him; last time I checked, slapping someone is not supposed to be as painful as a finishing move. So no excuse for Orton there.
Orton is the bad guy in this case, that doesn't mean he isn't talented, or he shouldn't have fans who appreciate his talent (I am one of them). However, his actions make him a bad guy, and because of that I would boo him if I was at a live event. Also, as modest-genius said, cheering him is the worst thing you can do for a bad guy. I also believe that Orton said the same thing in an article on ESPN.com, so you should boo him.
------------------
I am the leader of an evil team/group/faction/whatever. One of my underlings wins title that I covet. It is common knowledge that I made the evil group so I can win/keep the title. I kick underling from group & beat him up, because he has the title I covet.
5 years later, and now I have learned the errors of my previous evil ways, and have worked for the fans forgiveness (I became a good guy). My former underling, who never really did anything to become a good guy, is still evil. He, in an effort to win the title, threatens to bankrupt my families business, kicks my 62-year-old father-in-law in the head, kicks my brother-in-law in the head, and then assaults my wife; the only reason given was that he wanted to get "revenge" on me for kicking him out of the evil group I was in charge of 5 years before, that my in-laws/wife had NOTHING TO DO WITH. So now I go to defend my family from being further incapacitated, and seek revenge in their honor.
------------------
Am I a bad guy for defending my family? THE ANSWER IS NO, and if you think otherwise, you are not using your brain. The role-play above is the EXACT SAME THING AS HHH/ORTON, just without saying who is who, in order to prevent bias against HHH. If you think Orton had a reason to assault the McMahons, you are gravely mistaken. Attempting to fire someone is not cause for assaulting their boss, otherwise we would have CEO's in the hospital every day, so Vince's assault is inexcusable. The kick to Shane's head was WELL after the match ended, so there is no excuse for kicking Shane. Stephanie is a woman, and as we all know, there is no excuse for assaulting a woman, even though she slapped him; last time I checked, slapping someone is not supposed to be as painful as a finishing move. So no excuse for Orton there.
Orton is the bad guy in this case, that doesn't mean he isn't talented, or he shouldn't have fans who appreciate his talent (I am one of them). However, his actions make him a bad guy, and because of that I would boo him if I was at a live event. Also, as modest-genius said, cheering him is the worst thing you can do for a bad guy. I also believe that Orton said the same thing in an article on ESPN.com, so you should boo him.
Motor City Mayhem
The Canadian Rover.
Look I get that maybe Orton should be the Good guy but come on. You cant make Ric Flair Heel anymore because everyone loves him (Via Jericho Rivalry), you cant make Triple H Heel because even when oyou do he it dosnt work and it would be wierd if only batista was heel. So you know.....Maybe he is getting the short end of the stick bbut oh well.
At first i dont think he was really the bad guy i mean he wanted revenge...i would to if some one screwed me over!! BUT Once Orton crossed the line and started messing with the family to get to HHH thats when he became the bad guy!! I could understand if he only messed with HHH and was getting the revenge but come on you messed with Stephanie AND you talked about HHH's KIDS...thats when he crossed the line and thats when i think the good guy bad guy perception came in...it was no longer about revenge and making HHH pay the storyline became HHH trying to avenge his family which made Orton the bad guy!!
Total Impact
A Poster Name Total Impact
Orton should be the good guy in this situation as it was Evloutions who turned on Orton and not Orton on Evolution. And no matter how you look at it, Orton has gotten over on all the members from taking out Flair, HHH, & Batista. Taking major titles from each member from the World Tag Team titles from Flair, the WWE Championship from Batista & HHH. So Orton is the good guy in this feud and the WWE should do more to play that on TV, but cant as Orton is a great heel. So someone has to be the bad guy and Orton is great at being the bad guy.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
Isn't there a statute of limitations for revenge-attacks? It definitely is less then 5 years, so Orton missed out on his chance. Not to mention he tried to get revenge, from Summer Slam 04 until at least the Royal Rumble 05, and he failed miserably, so why can he get revenge AGAIN?
Also, why are people approving of assaulting women and old men? Last time I checked, those acts are morally reprehensible, and if you saw that on the news, you would wish death upon the guy who did it, you wouldn't say "the guy assaulting the women and old men is the good guy. Look at me, I'm a dumbass."
On a slightly different note: When did Randy Orton ever become a good guy? He was booted out of Evolution. That doesn't mean that he became a face; it just meant that he wasn't part of HHH's stable. He re-cemented himself as a heel again 6 months later, because HE NEVER TURNED FACE IN THE FIRST PLACE. He feuded with evolution, then turned on Stacy Kiebler; meaning he tried to get revenge, then went on to being a bad guy. He had no real feud as a face (outside of Evolution). Yes, he did team up with faces against evolution; however, there is an old saying: 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend.' So he never really did anything face-like.
Look at the dismantling of evolution. Orton was beaten out of the group by the remaining members, and he never was successful as a face. Batista beat up Evolution on his way out, and he has not been a heel since, because he BEAT UP THE EVIL STABLE. Orton got sympathy because he got kicked out of Evolution, but sympathy DOES NOT EQUAL face turn. Orton has never been the good guy in this, because Orton WAS NEVER A GOOD GUY.
Similarly, a lot of people on this forum believe that Edge teaming with Jericho is going to lead to Edge turning face. Well, lets say Edge beats the crap out of Jericho. Is Jericho now a good guy, because he got beaten up by another bad guy? NO, HE IS STILL A BAD GUY, BECAUSE HE NEVER DID ANYTHING TO BECOME A GOOD GUY. Edge becomes the good guy, or they both stay as bad guys.
Orton is the bad guy, and HHH is the good guy. This feud did not start when HHH beat Orton out of Evolution; it started when Orton was badmouthing Stephanie, which led to Vince getting punted. SO PLEASE COME TO YOUR DAMN SENSES!
Also, why are people approving of assaulting women and old men? Last time I checked, those acts are morally reprehensible, and if you saw that on the news, you would wish death upon the guy who did it, you wouldn't say "the guy assaulting the women and old men is the good guy. Look at me, I'm a dumbass."
On a slightly different note: When did Randy Orton ever become a good guy? He was booted out of Evolution. That doesn't mean that he became a face; it just meant that he wasn't part of HHH's stable. He re-cemented himself as a heel again 6 months later, because HE NEVER TURNED FACE IN THE FIRST PLACE. He feuded with evolution, then turned on Stacy Kiebler; meaning he tried to get revenge, then went on to being a bad guy. He had no real feud as a face (outside of Evolution). Yes, he did team up with faces against evolution; however, there is an old saying: 'The enemy of my enemy is my friend.' So he never really did anything face-like.
Look at the dismantling of evolution. Orton was beaten out of the group by the remaining members, and he never was successful as a face. Batista beat up Evolution on his way out, and he has not been a heel since, because he BEAT UP THE EVIL STABLE. Orton got sympathy because he got kicked out of Evolution, but sympathy DOES NOT EQUAL face turn. Orton has never been the good guy in this, because Orton WAS NEVER A GOOD GUY.
Similarly, a lot of people on this forum believe that Edge teaming with Jericho is going to lead to Edge turning face. Well, lets say Edge beats the crap out of Jericho. Is Jericho now a good guy, because he got beaten up by another bad guy? NO, HE IS STILL A BAD GUY, BECAUSE HE NEVER DID ANYTHING TO BECOME A GOOD GUY. Edge becomes the good guy, or they both stay as bad guys.
Orton is the bad guy, and HHH is the good guy. This feud did not start when HHH beat Orton out of Evolution; it started when Orton was badmouthing Stephanie, which led to Vince getting punted. SO PLEASE COME TO YOUR DAMN SENSES!
you pretty much hit it right there, in short 13 year olds dont understand and when they get older they might.. triple h deserves everything that he's getting from orton cuz honest it set orton back for years and its the reason why orton had to wait to come up rather than cena... batista and flair deserve it too
So Orton can't get over the fact that he won a title back in 2004, then Triple H showed him what it meant to hold that title. You have everyone coming after you to get it. Orton should have seen it coming, honestly.
Though, to go along with ya, it was a shitty thing for Triple H to do. True. Jealousy and the like.
There's a difference between "You screwed me over 5 years ago! So now I'm going to do whatever it takes to win, even cheating!" and "I'm going to sadistically attack your family, Batista, and your best friend/mentor." Orton crossed over any type of revenge line you could have drawn.
Think about it. You and a friend really want a toy. You get the toy, so your friend stops being friends with you, steals your toy, and starts 5 years worth of bad blood with you.
Then, years later, you get another toy. A grand toy, it is. Your old enemy comes along, getting pissed off because you're flaunting your toy over his father-in-law. So, in retaliation to him trying to take this new toy, you attack his wife. Then his brother. Then you attack his father-in-law. Then you punt his mentor in the head. Then you break his best friend's arm.
Where is Orton being the good guy in all of this? Really now.
Stormtrooper
Championship Contender
Thank god there is someone else whose opinion isn't bias in this thread.
Orton got his revenge in 04, then again in 06 as part of Rated RKO, and now is trying to get revenge A THIRD TIME. All for 1 beating he took from the #1 contender to the title he had.
If the roles were reversed, and Triple H beat up Orton's wife, father-in-law, and brother, then this thread would talk about how HHH is such an a-hole because he hurt Ortons family. It is amazing how bias the internet is toward HHH.
It's really hard to see Randy Orton as the bad guy. Orton is doing anything possible to take down the McMahon family. In the storyline they are supposed to be faces, yet in real life they are viewed as the evil McMahon family that holds down younger talent and only pushes people that they view as worthy, regardless of what the fans actually think. Backstage, there is a power struggle going on between HHH and Orton, so the storyline can also reflect reality.
So even though storyline and reality are slightly different, it's really hard to not look at this and see that Randy Orton is just doing whatever he can possibly do to stop WWE from becoming another WCW. Unfortunately, Vince just wants to make the storyline of the "evil heel" Orton against the boring face HHH. If Vince just went with reality then things would be a lot better
So even though storyline and reality are slightly different, it's really hard to not look at this and see that Randy Orton is just doing whatever he can possibly do to stop WWE from becoming another WCW. Unfortunately, Vince just wants to make the storyline of the "evil heel" Orton against the boring face HHH. If Vince just went with reality then things would be a lot better
