The Curious Case of Randy Orton

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The day after Summerslam 2004 Randy Orton was riding high as the newly crowned World Heavyweight Champion by beating Chris Benoit. He was successful in his title defense against Benoit on RAW with the help of Evolution. Batista lifted him on his shoulders and Randy was king of the world. Then HHH gave him the thumbs down and it all went bad from there. Orton was kicked out of Evolution, turned face, and lost the title to HHH at Unforgiven. It took a nine-month program with the Undertaker to help build Orton up but suspensions and trouble after that he seemed to hit his groove around late 2007 and is one of the top superstars today.

Could he be on a entirely different path if he was to have had the championship longer. His face run was unspectacular mainly in my opinion because he didn't hold the title longer. A month is hardly time to prove yourself and it seemed HHH snatched that away from him. Sure he feuded with Evolution up to his program with the Undertaker but he was far from what he once was. I would have had Orton hold the title until New Year's Revolution when HHH could beat him for the title and they still could have the HHH/Batista program. I believe that could have helped his face run so it won't be so unbelievable that he can turn face in the near future.

So what do you think Orton would be if he had the championship longer as a face? Would he be in the same spot today or would he be on a different path, better or possibly worse?

 

[colalella2891]

I enjoyed all of that. Orton winning, being betrayed, and I liked him as a face. He's kind of crazy now.. always has that look on his face like he's gonna rape his opponent... ANYWAY... Yea I think if he held the title longer he would be a bit better today. He probably would've gotten more title shots, and he would just be a bigger/more developed superstar.

But notice, most fresh main eventers only have the title for a short period of time. Look at CM Punk. His first few reigns were shit. But now he's getting a longer reign, hopefully. I think the WWE gives some fresh main eventers short reigns on purpose, just too see how it goes with them. Jeff Hardy is another example. Short title reigns help to show if they can handle it or not.

 

[DiscipleofWrestling]

I don't think Orton would have held the title much longer after Unforgiven if he was booked to win that night. Orton, in my opinion, would have lost the title at Survivor Series that year if he didn't at Unforgiven. After a while, the fact that Orton would have trouble getting over as a face would have caused him to go down a similar road as he has today. Orton was born to be the villain. As someone else said, Orton has the face of a rapist, murderer, or sociopath. He didn't become a believable good guy during his term. It always seemed like he was playing it instead of being it. You can tell by the way a person acts what they are saying inside. Orton wasn't convincing because I don't think he liked what he was doing. When Orton turned heel in 2005 again, he seemed much more natural, much more at ease with what he was doing than trying to play the guy everyone's supposed to like all of a sudden.

 

[gregfj2]

The way it's all played out, I think Randy NEEDED to be the angry/bitter heel. I like Triple H as the proud/fierce/arrogant monster, but I want other stars to be able to stand up to him and just maybe have a chance to knock him down (like my awesome favorite Tajiri). Orton becoming a punk was better for all 3 remaining Evolution guys. Every moment of Randy's anger is valuable hero-time for whomever he is up against.

My only problem is that when Randy talks his trash, I want so badly for the entire locker room to come out and kick his ass. Or even Michael Cole. SOMEBODY in that arena have some guts and shut this guy up for me! But when Jericho says that HE is the best then I actually want to see him beat up everyone on the roster. Maybe I'm a hypocrite, or maybe Little Jerry makes a good point about the value of a successful face run.

 

[XgringolocoX]

Maybe orton got that first run as now he is the youngest Heavyweight Champ in history, not Brock. Maybe a stretch, but we all love a good conspiricy.
I always though that Batitsta would have been a better choice for that student do good/teacher kicks his ass for it story line. But hey, Evo did what it was created to do and made Orton and Batista.
I'm not real big on these short title reigns. I think they cheapen the title and I care less about having to see every title match. After someone has that title for a bit then it's interesting to see who will knock said champ off the perch.

 

[XgringolocoX]

Oh, crap! Forgot to actually answer your question, sorry.

I think Orton would be right where he's at. He's a heel cause that's what he's best at. He has his spot cause he's better than most on the roster. I see Orton as a life time bad guy, and that's not a bad thing.
He do have that stare permafixed on his face though. Went to a house show while i was in Canada last week and he had that same stare...it's a bit creepier in person.

 

["Cool Guy" Jensen]

I think Randy Orton's face run didn't work for the simple fact that it happened so sudden. He goes from being one of Raw's top heels along with his fellow Evolution members, to a heel who gets decimated by his former "friends". He needed to turn face after that, but not many people saw it coming. I could understand if Triple H tried to persuade Orton to give the title to him and when Orton refused, he'd turn face. That did happen, but it was the week following his betrayal.

I don't get why WWE felt that Randy Orton was failing as the World Heavyweight Champion. He was barely given a chance. He's beginning to become The Undertaker. A person who receives multiple title reigns, but doesn't have many good, long, dominant reigns. His only title reign like that was his "Age of Orton" reign lasting October 2007 to April 2008, where he successfully defended against the likes of Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Jeff Hardy, John Cena, and Triple H.

If that didn't happen the way it did, I don't think Randy Orton's character would be much different today. His current gimmick doesn't have much to do with what happened in the summer and fall of 2004. But more of what happened during his recovery from his collarbone injury. It was upon his return that he became known as "The Viper" and formed "Legacy". Not much would have changed if you ask me.

 

[samboisdead]

In my opinion Randy sucked back then and had no real charachter. Thats why his face run sucked. You could have let him hold the title 3 years and he would have still sucked. They had built no charachter then he was just some priviliged kid with no personality. Nowdays he has built in my opinion one of the best charachters in recent history. I do wish they would let him play the role less cowardly and more unstable/mental. I really loved the anger disorder I hate they decided to trash that. Anyway I think you could turn Orton face now and he would be huge. From what i have seen half the crowd pops for him anyway. Honestly if they break up Legacy I almost expect Orton to become the face and Ted/Cody to stay heel.

 

[Dave]

Hmm! Good question.

I personally think that if he was to establish himself as a face for longer, he would have probably have taken a different path. I think that the reason he is playing the heel character he is now is mainly because of the reputation he has garnered in the past as being one hardcore, psychotic son of a bitch. I think with more of a face title run against Evolution after he won the Championship would have been so much better for Orton and would have really established him as one of the most versatile guys on the WWE roster. Now though and this may be contentious, I think of him as a "one trick pony". In all honesty, I can't even remember when Orton was a face last. He is now under the bracket of heel for life. He is unlike people like Chris Jericho who can switch between alignments and I think that the great character he has played out for the last year or so has really defined who he is and will be for the very near future.

I think this would have changed dramatically if he was allowed to be a face for a while longer. Although, WWE would have liked to use him as a heel at some point in his career to ensure that he was comfortable with any angle they would give him. In that situation, he may have shown them how comfortable he was a heel and it may have just ended up the way it is now anyway.

I don't know but I do feel it would be slightly different, for better or worse.

 

[JBK2008]

Randy Orton would've been a slightly better superstar today if that. The face run could've def used a longer title reign but it was all good to see and and it hasn't really hurt him since he is one of the top heels in the company now. So if anything, he's be slightly better and a little more developed. Just means it'll be even more exciting when he one day turns face again!

 

[jrumpi]

You wana know why RKO will never be the next rock or austin or cena .

Because wwe fucked up when they had the chance .
Lets look at his history , when he 1st starting to get hot after mick foly made him a star and wwe decided to make him the youngest world champ , HHH gave him that beat down which randy never recovered from . So he goes to SD where under taker made him a star again but rko decided to act like a bad boy and was so damn close to getting fired . He then comes to raw where wwe thought by making him and edge team up against DX will bring him some momentum but boy that didnt work 1 bit . After that RKO was lost right until wwe decided to finally try to give him the title he had a good run but nothing memorable , because just when he started to call it the age of orton , Big Nose decided to take the title from him so rko lost his momentum once again. Then later RKO starts developing a new side of him the viper (The sick IED ). The guy had the wwe universe in his hands it was time to RKO finally become a legend then guess what ......
BIG NOSE BEATED HIM AT WM 25 !!!
Now granted rko won the title at back lash after that but whats the point he wins a ppv then loses it to batista he wins it back then losses it to cena . RKO will never ever be a big name that draws cause wwe always finds away to fuck him up thats why I am off the rko fan wagon .

Ohh and to all who think that rko was going to work as a face .
The reason that didnt work because he didnt change a damn thing to his character not his move sit . GUESS WHAT IT DIDNT WORK THEN AND IT WILL NOT WORK NOW .

 

[WinstonDeckard]

You wana know why RKO will never be the next rock or austin or cena .

Because wwe fucked up when they had the chance

First of all Cena doesn't belong in the same sentence with Austin or the Rock. Why? Because all though he is the face of the company he hasn't been that transcendent figure that transformed the business and took it to heights it had never seen before. Secondly, Randy Orton never had a chance to be that transcendent figure. Why? Because he has no charisma. Nothing. His matches consist of a 15 minute chinlock. I understand he's a heel but there are other ways to get booed then by locking an opponent in a match long rest hold. Sure the crowd won't cheer him, but it causes the live audience to lose all interest in the match and in turn kills the live atmosphere. On top of that it causes the home audience to change the channel. Hardly the next Rock or Austin, or even Cena (because at least he provokes a response from the audience at all times).

 

[jrumpi]

First of all Cena doesn't belong in the same sentence with Austin or the Rock. Why? Because all though he is the face of the company he hasn't been that transcendent figure that transformed the business and took it to heights it had never seen before. Secondly, Randy Orton never had a chance to be that transcendent figure. Why? Because he has no charisma. Nothing. His matches consist of a 15 minute chinlock. I understand he's a heel but there are other ways to get booed then by locking an opponent in a match long rest hold. Sure the crowd won't cheer him, but it causes the live audience to lose all interest in the match and in turn kills the live atmosphere. On top of that it causes the home audience to change the channel. Hardly the next Rock or Austin, or even Cena (because at least he provokes a response from the audience at all times).

I agree with what you said except for cena but thats another story . You may notice I lift out his wrestling skills of the case , because I was taking about him as a character , as far as ring work he is good BUT OMG THOESE HEAD LOCKS OF HIS MAKE ME GTS . I even call him Randy The Head Lock Orton . ohh and expect to see allot of them at HIAC LOL . Back to topic , I was talking about his character because its what represents him ,this is wwentertainment not ROH . EXAMPLE : STON COLD only kicks and punches yet you would cheer him all the time why cause he represents him self in a good way where you actually believe it and it fits his gimmick , unlike RKO .

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The face run didn't work because he had spent the 2 years previously being a cocky, arrogant heel and beating beloved people like Foley and The Rock.... add his backstage record to the mix and immediately many people would struggle to like him...

The face turn was very sudden and poorly planned... it came across more as a way to push Trips than it did Orton. Had it gone longer, I think he would have ended up bombing like Diesel... turning someone cos they win a title rarely works... Cena got away with it cos he had an inherently likeable persona, but Orton just doesn't have that...

He'd be in TNA now... probably where Rhyno is...

 

[SUBMIT2GR8NESS]

To be completely honoest Orton has potential to be the face of wwe. He does unfortunetly you have hollywood fuckups like cena who draw a bigger crowd. Specifically crowds of 10 year old boys who think their cool just because they have a shirt from a crappy rapper and wrestler. Back to orton, he has the potential to become a big star in the business with all of his world titles he's won. He's almost like matt hardy in a way but not title wise. But when you think wrestling u think of who, John Cena Rey mysterio and all those wresters that attract all the wwe kids. Plain and simple Orton is the perfect bad guy the stuff they did with triple h was great stuff for wrestlemania. Now we have hell in a cell with john cena. Orton now brags he knows what it takes to win hell in a cell. IF I SEEM TO RECALL HE GOT HIS ASS KICKED BY THE UNDERTAKER. Look i just flat out never liked orton because constantly bragged about being a 3rd generiation superstar, then he bragged about being the youngest champ in history. HE HELD THE TITLE FOR ONE FN MONTH. And he brags about that for the next couple of years. At this piont in time i respect and hate him.

 

[SwimminInIndy]

At this piont in time i respect and hate him.

That's just what he/WWE wants isn't it?

In my opinion, Randy Orton is one of the best heels in wrestling today, and maybe ever. Just like someone else said earlier, he always has that look in his eye like he's crazy, and it's great.

He might be a little crazy, I might be a little crazy, and everyone else that digs him might, but you can not argue with him being the best heel today. I could never imagine him ever going back to a face, it would just be to corny.