Puroresu Talks - Wrestling In The Land of The Rising Sun

[Hard Hit Prince]

I've been thinking about opening this thread for sometime now, it's a personal thread where I will try my best to give this boards some talks about wrestling in Japan. I am not an "expert" on the matter, but I am passionate about it and I will try my best to be unbiased and learn in the process about the history of one of the most respected sports (cue: art form) in The Land of The Rising Sun.

This will be just random stuff that I dig into, and I can either post about Rikidozan's rise and success, or Inoki's influence, to just talk about a match here and there. I'll take some questions on it too, and if I don't know the answer, I will try my best to look it up for you. The reason why I didn't put this in the writing section it's because some of the stuff will most likely be considered "spam". Hope people can enjoy it as much as I and if anything, maybe I can get some people in the Japanese wrestling bandwagon.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Just for the sake of having this organized a little bit, I will start my first post to talk about what makes "puroresu" a different kind of wrestling than the ones we are used to see on WWE and TNA.

The "term" puroresu, is basically the Japanese pronunciation for pro-wrestling and the style is based on the american style, with some small but effective differences: First it is treated as a legitimate fight, with fewer theatrics; the stories told in Japanese matches are about a fighter's spirit and perseverance.

Inside the puroresu we have the strong style, that's most typically associated with full contact martial arts strikes and shoot submission holds that we see being used inside the ring.*

To get someone started on this style and to truly understand it, there's no better example as the G1 Climax 2013 match, between Katsuyori Shibata and Tomohiro Ishii.

The stakes were very high as both men felt the need to really prove themselves to, not only each other, but to the world as really talented guys that indeed deserved more exposure. Shibata was an early favorite to win the entire G1 Climax tournament (I will talk about it later, as of right now, just understand it as a very big and important tournament in New Japan) and Ishii ended up being the MVP of the entire thing with strong showings and strong matches, that made him, one of the current big stars in the entire company (look at Ishii as a William Regal kind of guy, someone people know how good he is, but the company never really seemed to care for him).

You mix this passionate guys and what you get is one of most violent wrestling matches of this era. Not hardcore, just damn violent and all the thing inside the squared circle and in more or less 15 minutes. Elbows, clotheslines, kicks, grappling and submissions represent everything that puroresu is all about. This was voted a five star (*****) match by Wrestling Observer Newsletter Editor - David Meltzer. I wouldn't go that far, but those two left it all on the line and I take my hat off for what they accomplished in what is considered the most grueling tournament in the business.

[YOUTUBE]1DGDu5UqiZk[/YOUTUBE]​

* - adapted from Wikipedia's page about "puroresu" for definition.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

WRESTLE KINGDOM 9

• 36.000 in attendance at Tokyo Dome
• Jim Ross and Matt Striker were the commentator team
• The show ran for near 3 and a half hours.

The event had a Pre-Rumble Match, which featured some of the undercard stars, such as El Desperado, YOSHI-HASHI, etc. It's winner however is one of the biggest names in the company's history in Yuji Nagata. It meant nothing really, it was a big star win for the domestic crowd to pop.

As for the main card, there were two things people felt - the fact that the matches were rushed and the other was how the entrances didn't come into play really as it had done in the past years. However, those are just thecnical problems and what matters here is the action inside the ring.

1. reDragon retained the IWGP Jr. Tag Team Title in a hard fought and fast paced match to get things going. People thought they would lose it to Time Splitters, but ended up beating one of the Forever Hooligans (Alex Kozlov) with "Chasing The Dragon" at 13:03 minutes. The Young Bucks were also here, but the crowd seemed to care more about their boy KUSHIDA.

2. Team New Japan won against The Bullet Club, when Honma, of all people, pinned Yujiro Takahashi after his trademark headbutt from the top rope at 5:35 minutes. The crowd really popped for this moment as Honma is the type of guy who you don't expect to win, but always expect to deliver and he deserved it. Also, this was Jeff Jarrett's debut in the Tokyo Dome and we got to see Kojima doing his "chopping" bit, which is always awesome.

3. Toro Yano & Team NOAH beat Suzuki-gun stable, made pretty much of Iizuka and well known wrestlers like Davey Boy Jr, Shelton Benjamin and Lance Archer. The goal here was to give the NOAH guys as much time as they could, because New Japan now has some kind of financial control over the company and they wanted to make a TMDK vs. K.E.S feud. It was nothing important here, the so-called "ace" of NOAH looked like shit here.

4. Suzuki and Sakuraba had one of the most original matches I've ever seen and it was a good difference of pace from those tag matches. It wasn't a technical masterpiece, but it was pretty violent and rough, and protected very well the loser, which in this case was Sakuraba. As for the decision I have zero problems with, mainly because Suzuki is a badass wrestler and beating Sazuraba (who's very respected in the MMA industry) means something in New Japan. I think he'll probably head after the Intercontinental Title or is at least, an early favorite to win the New Japan Cup 2015.

5. Togi Makabe and Tomohiro Ishii made history with the first title change of the night, when Makabe became a first-time NEVER Openweight Champion after a diving kick to the head at 12:23. It was a really good solid brawl and the decision isn't all that bad, as this gives us a rematch for next month's event - but what's the thing with pushing Makabe, six years after he was actually relevant? He's the Big Show of New Japan.

6. Kenny Omega from the BULLET CLUB brought some happiness to the stable after defeating the reigning IWGP Jr. Hvt Champion Taguchi. Omega was a big name in the DDT promotion and he's known for wrestling little small girls and the like, he tried his best to tell who his character is, but it needs some time. The match wasn't nothing great, but it was pretty solid and the decision was the best possible. The junior division needs some new faces in it as those two guys right now are not enough.

7. Meyuo Tag (Shibata & Goto) became the IWGP Tag Team Champions after defeating the year long champions of Doc Gallows & Karl Anderson. It really makes it look like a big thing, but it wasn't. Gallows & Anderson couldn't have been any more stale with uninteresting matches in the entire 2014 championship run. It's 2 wins a 0 losses for Goto & Shibata in this feud, so I don't know if we're gonna get a rematch. I would like to say that this starts the Shibata's 2015 breakout year, but it's difficult to say - the guy is like CM Punk, walked out on the company and was always very snob towards it.

8. AJ Styles defeated Tetsuya Naito with the Super Styles Clash at 14:30 minute mark. This was the first great match of the evening, with the Phenomenal One being built as the next #1 contender for the world title. A good sequence in this match, where AJ Styles used former BULLET CLUB leader's Prince Devitt's signature maneuver. Naito seems lost in the cards right now and it'll be cool to see where he goes from here.

9. Shinsuke Nakamura's 4th Intercontinental Championship reign continues after his victory over the most recent heavyweight wrestler Kota Ibushi. The psychology and the storyline of this match were the best of the whole evening and to this point the event had been very solid, but with this, it made the show really worth the $30+ that people may have spent. Ibushi showed a lot of personality in here and he tried his best to be accepted in the heavyweight division (after being one of the most successful juniors), but Nakamura was just too good for him. Some people wanted the title change, but all were really happy with the quality of the match (Rating was: **** 1/2 here, for sure).

10. In the main event - Tanahashi and Kazuchika Okada gave away another classic bout in their series, where the "current ACE of New Japan" defeated the challenger for the World Title at the 30:59 minute mark, after his sixth High Fly Flow of the night. Some epic moments here was the "High Fly Flow" from the top of the turnbuckle to the ground (behind the barricades) and the Tombstone Piledriver's reverse by Tanahashi. Also, for New Japan fans, the fact that Tanahashi kicked out after suffering the "Rainmaker Clothesline" was a big moment, as nobody, EVER, have done it. I really thought this was excelent and I wouldn't be surprised if someone gave it a fiv star rating.


Overall this is one of the best shows you'll find this year and it'll be really hard getting back to the "normal" wrestling standards. I really hope people give it a chance, specially the co-main event and the main event match, as it really made the show go from good, to exceptional.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I'm going to do a write-up on this show somewhere (probably the writing section) but I'll just note a few points on the show in here. Also, this was the first New Japan show I've ever watched so it was an intriguing experience:

- Thought the first match was a bit sloppy particularly some of the sequences involving reDragon and Forever Hooligans. Time Splitters were entertaining and the kicks of The Young Bucks were nasty looking though.

- Loved Honma. He was highly entertaining and stole the six man for me which was exactly the point of the match so mission accomplished.

- The Suzuki/Sakuraba shoot-style match was a welcome change of pace given the three multi-man tag matches they'd thrown on in a row (and the break-neck speed of the show). Suzuki looked like he was legit out of his fucking mind while Sakuraba didn't seem like anything special, even with the commentators listing his legit credentials. Liked Suzuki actually selling that arm injury too.

- Sticking Ishii/Makabe on straight after the previous fight seemed odd to me given how stiff this was in comparison. Was wildly entertaining in a good-old fight in a bar style way. Some of the shots were horrific and that last lariat Makabe dished out of horrific. I'm struggling with the face/heel dynamic in matches without North American's it has to be said though. Were both guys faces?

- Omega/Taguchi was fun but kinda meh for me. Nothing you haven't see from a decent midcard match anywhere else (well it was, but it didn't blow me away...like most mid-card matches)

- AJ Styles as a heel still feels odd. He's such a natural face to me that I just don't buy him as a (deliberate-)killer in the ring though his match with Naito was technically sound...you could pretty much apply that to any match on the card though.

- I've seen Ibushi numerous times before and like him so they had me half-way with that co-main event anyway. Nakamura has some freaky charisma though I couldn't help but spend half the match thinking that he was ugly as sin. Thought they told a very good story and enjoyed their match...again though I wasn't really sure on the heel/face dynamic (I'm assuming this is face/face)

- Tanahashi/Okada wasn't as panty-wettingly great as some will make it out to be but I enjoyed it and it was certainly match of the night. Very entertaining and it's clear why these two are the big-money guys in New Japan. Their entire match screamed Rock/Austin and I'm sure that's how the feud has played out up to this point. Obviously I failed to attach myself to the emotion at the end, but this post by GFW cleared that up and it touched me much more the second time I watched.

It was a good show overall and I'll be back for more for sure.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

~ Thanks for the reply FunKay, it's good to see people giving puroresu a try, and mainly New Japan of course. To answer your "question" about the babyface and heel dynamic in the Nakamura vs. Ibushi match up, what I have to tell you is that Nakamura is the leader of CHAOS, the big Heel stable, however for the past two years the stable has been somehow in a tweener's role - feuding with BULLET CLUB and with Nakamura/Okada/Ishii just being plain awesome inside the ring, so their dynamics really depend on the opponent, in this case, Ibushi was the babyface that showed a lot of attitude towards Nakamura, and in the end, gained the respect of the veteran (heel or not, doesn't matter). Nakamura's next opponent is a legendary babyface in Yuji Nagata and you'll probably see a lot more "disrespect" acts from Nakamura, unless they are going with the babyface turn, which frankly is quite time.

New Japan's 2015 - Line Up and Events Announced:

• 11th February: The New Beginning in Osaka - Bodymaker Colosseum, Osaka
• 14th February: The New Beginning in Sendai - Sendai Sun Plaza Hall, Miyagi
• [5th to 15th of March]: New Japan Cup 2015 - Various Locations*
• 5th April: Invasion Attack 2015 - Ryogoku Kokugikan, Tokyo
• 29th April: New Japan Show Untitled - Grand Messe Kumamoto
• 3rd May: Wrestling Dontaku 2015 - Fukuoka Kokusai Center
• Also in May: NJPW/ROH PPV Specials - TBA
• June (no dates yet): Best Of Super Juniors 2015 - Various Locations*
• 5th July: Dominion 7.5 - Osaka Castle Hall, Osaka
• [20th July to 16th August] G1 Climax 25 - Various Locations*
• September 2 Shows (no dates): Destruction in... - TBA;
• October (no dates): King of Pro Wrestling - TBA;
• November (no dates): Power Struggle 2015 - TBA;
• December (no dates): World Tag League 2015 - TBA

~ So, can you explain to us what the hell New Japan's does yearly?

New Japan Pro Wrestling is proud to present themselves as a sports company, instead of "entertainment", and ence why the matches are more simplistic with the style of "puroresu" being integrated in the matches. So, what could be more sports-like than a bunch of tournaments?

New Japan Cup, is an elimination tournament between the company's top stars. It's a simple, winner advances, loser "good luck next time" type of tournament. The winner gets an opportunity to challenge for either the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship or, since last year's the IWGP Intercontinental Championship at Invasion Attack.

The Best of Super Juniors and G1 Climax are the top tournaments for the respective weight class (the junior aka cruiserweight and the heavyweight respectively). This type of shows are not elimination's like, it's more in a sense of a "league", where wrestlers are divided in two blocks (Block A and Block B) and they face each other in order to get more points - win=2 points, draw=1 point and loss=0 points - the winners of their respective block face each other in the finals. The winner of the BOSJ gets the IWGP Jr. Heavyweight Title shot at Dominion, while the winner of the G1 gets an IWGP World Heavyweight Title shot at Wrestle Kingdom.

The World Tag League is the exact same thing as G1/BOSJ, only for the tag team division, and usually they do an elimination tag tournament for the junior tags in October/November.

There are also the "regular events" such as next month's "The New Beginning" and "Destruction in..." that are divided in two cards, one headlined by the world title and the other by the IC title (it's mainly to make money, think movie franchises). PPV's like "King of Pro Wrestling", "Invasion Attack", "Power Struggle", "Dominion" have been a staple in quality for the industry as a whole.

For each of this events, New Japan generally presents in SamuraiTV and, this year on NewJapanWorld events called: "Road To [insert event here]", which basically are shows filled with multi-man tag team matches, mainly composed by the stables of CHAOS, BULLET CLUB and Suzuki-gun, against babyface teams or against each other. From time to time, you'll see something big going down at this shows, such as a Junior Tag Tournament or a champion getting pinned and therefore being challenged by the one who did it, but most of the times, the big names are protected and the falls go to the jobbers team (which I'll talk about in a future post). However, don't think that just because it's a lot of guys at once, that the matches are no good, because, it's quite the contrary, sometimes, with those guys all merging their styles one way or another, you actually get a lot of better matches than on special events.

---------------------------------​

VS.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2...-match-shinsuke-nakamura-vs-yuji-nagata_sport​

So that's it for tonight! I'll also leave you a match that'll for surely be useful for February's New Beginning. It's from one of the rounds of the most recent G1 Climax (in this case, 24). It's a match between the now, reigning and defending Intercontinental Champion and one of the New Japan legends (who can still go) Yuji Nagata (and also new #1 contender, see? Told you it's important).

If you watched Wrestle Kingdom, you probably know now who Shinsuke Nakamura is. The "King of Strong Style" uses a lot of his knees and a lot of striking in order to beat his opponents, he's probably the best storyteller and the most charismatic wrestler in the company. He uses the "Boma-Ye" running knee strike to the head or the back of the head to end most of his matches. On the other hand, Yuji Nagata is probably a name you never heard of, even though he had a small run in WCW from 1997 to 1998. He works a "shoot-style" of wrestling and he's the master of submissions, integrating a lot of crossfaces and armbars in his repertoire. He's a beloved wrestler and very respected in the circle of puroresu and he's a former 2x- IWGP World Champion.

This match was rated 4,5* out of 5 from WON's editor David Meltzer. I think it was a bit of a stretch, but the match was actually very good and told a very good story.

 

[Shadowmancer]

People should know Nagata since he wrestled in WCW back in the day

 

[Shadowmancer]

Video that Bad Luck Fale took the weekend of Wrestle Kingdom 9. I see two of the IPW guys from NZ in the video, Hopefully they can get onto some of the New Japan shows in future with that GFW stuff. Either that or Fale does some more local shows as that would be awesome.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

- Omega/

I am SO all in on Kenny Omega. Ten years of experience, too. Hope to see him stateside some day. He has things about him that can in no way be taught.

Nakamura has some freaky charisma though I couldn't help but spend half the match thinking that he was ugly as sin

I shit you not, it took me a solid 15 minutes into the whole thing, pre match vid package included, to realize the break dancing/weird shit wasn't a joke or making fun of someone. It was like, serious, and he was as seen as cool for it.



Which instantly made him amazing for me.


Speaking of which, why the fuck didn't GFW get English voice-overs for those video packages?

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Speaking of which, why the fuck didn't GFW get English voice-overs for those video packages?

One of my favourite commentary things was JR shutting up pretty much immediatley after the promo for Nakamura/Ibushi started even thopugh the whole thing was in Japanese and thus unlikely to be understood by the fans who were listening to their commentary. Seemed very odd.

Been watching the Okada/Tanahashi series of matches on YouTube/Dailymotion over the last couple of days. Just finished the Invasion Attack match and still have their G1 match and final bout before Wrestle Kingdom to go. I'll give my thoughts on them as a whole after watching the remainders, but I will say they've all been at the very least good.

 

[Shadowmancer]

Meltzer's star ratings are out for WK9. 4 matches got 4+ stars and then there was one 5 star match. I put them in spoilers due to spoilers for those that still don't know the results.

Spoiler

Yuji Nagata won the New Japan Rumble in 26:09 *1/2

Bobby Fish & Kyle O’Reilly retained the IWGP jr. tag team titles over Alex Shelley & Kushida, The Young Bucks and Rocky Romero & Alex Koslov in 13:01 ****

Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Tomoaki Honma beat Yujiro Takahashi & Jeff Jarrett & Bad Luck Fale in 5:35 **1/4

Toru Yano & Naomichi Marufuji & Mikey Nicholls & Shane Haste beat Takashi Iizuka & Shelton Benjamin & Davey Boy Smith Jr. & Lance Archer in 5:15 **

Minoru Suzuki beat Kazushi Sakuraba in 9:21 ***3/4

Togi Makabe pinned Tomohiro Ishii in 12:23 to win the Never Open weight championship ****½

Kenny Omega pinned Ryusuke Taguchi to win the IWGP jr. heavyweight title in 13:20 ***3/4

Katsuyori Shibata & Hirooki Goto beat Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows in 9:00 to win the IWGP tag team titles ***½

A.J. Styles pinned Tetsuya Naito in 14:25 ****1/4

Shinsuke Nakamura retained the IC title pinning Kota Ibushi in 20:12 ***** (he called this an all-time classic match)

Hiroshi Tanahashi pinned Kazuchika Okada in 30:57 to retain the IWGP heavyweight title ****3/4

 

[Papa Pillman]

Meltzer's star ratings are out for WK9. 4 matches got 4+ stars and then there was one 5 star match. I put them in spoilers due to spoilers for those that still don't know the results.

Spoiler

Yuji Nagata won the New Japan Rumble in 26:09 *1/2

Bobby Fish & Kyle O’Reilly retained the IWGP jr. tag team titles over Alex Shelley & Kushida, The Young Bucks and Rocky Romero & Alex Koslov in 13:01 ****

Satoshi Kojima & Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Tomoaki Honma beat Yujiro Takahashi & Jeff Jarrett & Bad Luck Fale in 5:35 **1/4

Toru Yano & Naomichi Marufuji & Mikey Nicholls & Shane Haste beat Takashi Iizuka & Shelton Benjamin & Davey Boy Smith Jr. & Lance Archer in 5:15 **

Minoru Suzuki beat Kazushi Sakuraba in 9:21 ***3/4

Togi Makabe pinned Tomohiro Ishii in 12:23 to win the Never Open weight championship ****½

Kenny Omega pinned Ryusuke Taguchi to win the IWGP jr. heavyweight title in 13:20 ***3/4

Katsuyori Shibata & Hirooki Goto beat Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows in 9:00 to win the IWGP tag team titles ***½

A.J. Styles pinned Tetsuya Naito in 14:25 ****1/4

Shinsuke Nakamura retained the IC title pinning Kota Ibushi in 20:12 ***** (he called this an all-time classic match)

Hiroshi Tanahashi pinned Kazuchika Okada in 30:57 to retain the IWGP heavyweight title ****3/4

I loved the show, but Meltzer continues to overshoot his NJPW star ratings, a trend he really started at the 2013 G-1. Almost all of these matches are a quarter to a half star over what they should have been(except oddly for the Suzuki/Sakuraba match which he may have underrated by a quarter star).

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

I loved the show, but Meltzer continues to overshoot his NJPW star ratings, a trend he really started at the 2013 G-1. Almost all of these matches are a quarter to a half star over what they should have been(except oddly for the Suzuki/Sakuraba match which he may have underrated by a quarter star).

I agree w/ you for the Makabe/Ishii and Naito/Styles, however I do think he hit the nail in the head, especially with the main events. Ibushi/Nakamura was a piece of magic, I was not expecting really what I got, it was perfect storytelling and it's probably the first 5* match I agree with Meltzer in years. Even though Shibata/Tanahashi was pretty fucking fantastic and had a tremendous backstory to it (and a real one!).

 

[Papa Pillman]

I agree w/ you for the Makabe/Ishii and Naito/Styles, however I do think he hit the nail in the head, especially with the main events. Ibushi/Nakamura was a piece of magic, I was not expecting really what I got, it was perfect storytelling and it's probably the first 5* match I agree with Meltzer in years. Even though Shibata/Tanahashi was pretty fucking fantastic and had a tremendous backstory to it (and a real one!).

Actually the main events I don't really have an issue with. Its more the rest of the card that he inflated. I had both of the main events at ****3/4, but I can't fault anyone for feeling that either was a five star effort(although I felt Okada/Tanahashi was MOTN, as my only knock on Ibushi/Nakamura was the finish felt a little too "sudden").

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Actually the main events I don't really have an issue with. Its more the rest of the card that he inflated. I had both of the main events at ****3/4, but I can't fault anyone for feeling that either was a five star effort(although I felt Okada/Tanahashi was MOTN, as my only knock on Ibushi/Nakamura was the finish felt a little too "sudden").

That's usually what happens in a Nakamura's match. The "Boma Ye" knee is usually like that and out of nowhere, but I gotta admit something, neither Jim Ross or Matt Striker really sold as the possible closing scenario. I thought Nakamura/Ibushi told the better story, and I actually think that the opener is almost a 1/2 star inflated damn - I guess it's because we saw the Meltzer Driver.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Probably the most surprising thing about the show to me was that.....Well, it really wasn't that much different to American wrestling. Like, at all.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Probably the most surprising thing about the show to me was that.....Well, it really wasn't that much different to American wrestling. Like, at all.

Yes, because it's really common to see a lot of stiff knees, chops, uppercuts and forearms to your face in american wrestling. Or an "MMA" worked match. The style is definitely different and the way wrestling is treated, there's absolutely no denying and without the "dusty finishes" in order to improve storylines you get why New Japan can be seen as a better product. It's more sports oriented, while most of the american main stream wrestling is entertainment oriented, which means more ridiculous storylines like Authority vs. Wrestlers or Wrestler vs. Bunny.

Now, if the stories in the ring are about the same, yes they are. Wrestling is an universal language and that's why New Japan has it's niche in the world without people learning Japanese.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Yes, because it's really common to see a lot of stiff knees, chops, uppercuts and forearms to your face in american wrestling.

Have you ever seen NXT? Or ROH, for that matter?

Or an "MMA" worked match.

have seen many times. Just as silly on American cards as it was on this one.

the way wrestling is treated, there's absolutely no denying

For sure. Also has zero impact on someone watching one stand alone show.

and without the "dusty finishes" in order to improve storylines you get why New Japan can be seen as a better product.

Def.

It's more sports oriented, while most of the american main stream wrestling is entertainment oriented, which means more ridiculous storylines like Authority vs. Wrestlers or Wrestler vs. Bunny.

NXT





I didn't mean it as a negative comment. I guess I was just expecting something VERY different, wereas it really reminded me of one of the NXT live specials, just on ten times grander stage

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Have you ever seen NXT? Or ROH, for that matter?



have seen many times. Just as silly on American cards as it was on this one.




For sure. Also has zero impact on someone watching one stand alone show.




Def.




NXT





I didn't mean it as a negative comment. I guess I was just expecting something VERY different, wereas it really reminded me of one of the NXT live specials, just on ten times grander stage

It makes a lot of sense that NXT is like that, mostly because you now have Adrian Neville, Finn Balor, Hideo Itami who were once (and still are) big stars in Japan (and they are toned down, like a lot). Also, NXT isn't supposed to be in the main stream section of "american wrestling" and it's not for nothing that they actually get rave reviews for their shows. And indy wrestling's actually been highly influenced by puroresu, just look at ROH's time at trying to be a more "shoot" oriented company.

And I've never seen a match like Suzuki and Sakuraba on any american card really. But please, enlighten me.

 

[Gelgarin]

I was really impressed overall, but thought most of the white guys were shit - which I guess makes me that type of fan.
The tag match at the beginning was pretty awful, and I have minor suspicions that JR was covertly taking the piss out of it with his superkick comments.

Everything else was either good or short. Nakamura against Ibushi was brilliant, main event was sold and I personally loved the worked MMA fight and the open weight bout - probably because they were different. Not something I'd want to see on a regular basis, but then that goes for pretty much the entire card.

I had a great time watching this event, but I have very little desire to watch another one any time soon. I'm desensitised to stiff lariats at this point, and will probably remain so for six months.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

And I've never seen a match like Suzuki and Sakuraba on any american card really. But please, enlighten me.

A worked, MMA-style match? Really?

 

[Papa Pillman]

I was really impressed overall, but thought most of the white guys were shit - which I guess makes me that type of fan.
The tag match at the beginning was pretty awful, and I have minor suspicions that JR was covertly taking the piss out of it with his superkick comments.

Everything else was either good or short. Nakamura against Ibushi was brilliant, main event was sold and I personally loved the worked MMA fight and the open weight bout - probably because they were different.

It seems to me that from this quote, the only thing that you didn't really enjoy was the more "throwaway stuff" like the 6-man and 8-man tag matches which really included nothing special(beyond how ridiculously entertaining Honma is), and the Junior Heavyweight stuff.

I definitely get how a more traditionalist fan would feel that a lot of the Jr.'s stuff was overloaded move span(if you ever watched PWG your head might explode).

But I'm glad you enjoyed most of the rest.

Have you ever seen NXT? Or ROH, for that matter?

The American indie style(which the upper card of NXT definitely resembles due to the guys involved being indie/international legends) is no doubt heavily influenced by Puro.

But, you are very seldom gonna see stuff quite to the level of stiff constant violent striking exchanges of Ishii/Makabe(there just aren't many bulls like that over here), or what you'll get from a Nakamura or Tanahashi match(just because no one in America is as good as they are).

The biggest thing that sets the two apart is overall talent level, You could combine every American indie(including NXT) and still not come up with a 15 guy deep list of talent that would touch the top 15-20 or so guys on the New Japan roster. New Japan has every bit as much talent on the roster as the WWE main roster, just competing a different style. Therefore you would have to follow companies like ROH/Evolve/NXT for 2-3 months to compile a card of matches that would stack up to one New Japan PPV.

But you're completely right in your observations and the similarities are there no doubt. New Japan isn't some other planet, it's all still pro wrestling, its just the pinnacle of a specific style.

And I've never seen a match like Suzuki and Sakuraba on any american card really. But please, enlighten me.

Rarely do you see something quite like that, best examples in (at least semi)recent memory I'd say are one of Cole/O'Reilly's KO/submission matches like the Hybrid Fighting Rules classic match from Best in the World 2012 or Kyle's world title win over him in PWG this year.

or most closely resembling it would be this:

And I FUCKING LOVE all of those matches by the way and I think that Joe/Angle match is one of the handful of best matches in TNA history and is tragically underrated and over-criticized. But then I'm an MMA fan who loves when MMA and pro wrestling blend the grey area- again surely due to the roughly 20 year strong Japanese influence on my fandom.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

A worked, MMA-style match? Really?

I am not saying it was good or anything, but at least it was different and this one didn't suck at all (believe me, they have really shit ones with the Gracie). It was very psychological with Sakuraba working the arm and Suzuki showing that "fighting spirit". In a 3 and a half hour show, you didn't really get anything telling the same story, it was everything different and it all delivered in the same deal. Wrestle Kingdom 9 really exceeded my expectations and I watch the product monthly, so this one really stood out, so don't expect many Ibushi/Nakamura kind of matches, those are pretty rare still...

I am not trying to say that puroresu is the best thing going, because quite frankly, in their events, I watch maybe the big title matches and one or two special matches if that intrigues me, because with NWA being pushed and what not, it really isn't interesting and the matches are normal at best. Meltzer's ratings are also way too big for Japan, but fuck him, you can have your opinion. While I didn't think there was a "bad match", I also didn't think that were really good matches, aside from the main events and maybe the Ishii/Makabe, which was just a pure brawl. Even people who come here all annoyed because the internet is saying this is "the shit" and playing "total smarks" have to be impressed with the quality of the main events, specially not knowing shit about the guys in the ring.

So, my question is - why not give it another try? At least to the big matches that are usually on dailymotion the day after? You'll be entertained for sure, you read some reports/results from puroresu spirit (website) and you're fine to watch the match and understand the story, and even make predictions. It's really easy to follow, and I created this thread to "help" people to maybe get into a different style of wrestling, if they want. Just don't "hate" because others like. I am not anti-WWE, not by a long shot, I actually think I am very open minded about wrestling as a whole, but currently New Japan is delivering a better product for me, that's it. If they suck, I guarantee you, I'll say it.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Note that I never questioned the quality of the show, just that I was surprised that what I watched wasn't that much DIFFERENT from American Wrestling. I guess I was expecting something markedly different, like the way ROH and Lucha Libre are markedly different than American wrestling.



By all means, the show was much better than 95% of shit the WWE put out. I would enjoy watching it more often if I had any fucking clue what was going on. It was hard enough even having JR and Striker there explaining it.

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

Note that I never questioned the quality of the show, just that I was surprised that what I watched wasn't that much DIFFERENT from American Wrestling. I guess I was expecting something markedly different, like the way ROH and Lucha Libre are markedly different than American wrestling.



By all means, the show was much better than 95% of shit the WWE put out. I would enjoy watching it more often if I had any fucking clue what was going on. It was hard enough even having JR and Striker there explaining it.

So the point of this thread is exactly for people like you Norcal. I am trying to give this little pieces of information about New Japan. For now, I only posted about what's puroresu and the differences from the main stream american wrestling (WWE/TNA) and the second post was about the events that happen every year. I'll talk a little bit about some of the wrestlers, backstories for the matches (the important ones) and post the results of less known shows that only happen to "build" the big events. I am trying to give it piece by piece so people don't go on "HEY TL;DR" trend.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Question! Supposedly nobody kicked out of the Rainmaker until Sunday, right? Then why am I seeing Tanahashi doing it close to two years ago at Invasion Attack 2013?