Punk Suicide Angle Too Far?

[Johnny Scumm]

So, last night on Raw, Punk stood atop the Titantron, saying that it was his turn for his "Initiation". He then went on to speak about his "Ultimate Sacrifice" and that he was going to jump. Obviously, he didn't, he was strapped to a harness and everything was all allright.
What I am saying though is that, Punk was talking about committing suicide here, it's not really something people joke about in life. If you're gonna kill yourself, you do it, I just feel as though it wasn't something that shouldn't have really taken place on a PG Show, especially for our entertainment.
What I wanna ask is;

What did you think of Punk talking suicide?

What else do you think he could've done for an initiation instead of this?

 

[airvar]

What did you think of Punk talking suicide?

I thought it was pretty funny.. it's wrestling, and I don't think it went to far. He was chastising the crowd for beleiving him, garnered a ton of heat, and it really fit into his on-screen persona. It's not like we haven't seen Jeff Hardy ACTUALLY Jump off 50' crap , and nobody (not even the kid's) actually thought they were going to watch the leader of Nexus end his life to prove himself to the Nexus. It was just a show of how manipulative the guy is. He can get you to believe ANYTHING if he talks about it long enough

What else do you think he could've done for an initiation instead of this?

I don't know but I found the street-gang style initiation's more disturbing then CM Punks fake suicide threat.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I didnt like it. It was obvious that he wasnt going to commit suicide, but I still do not believe it was an acceptable storyline for a PG rated show. I was still quite surprised that they went ahead with this and the harness after what happened with Owen Hart. I know that was from alot higher and was a greater risk but still...I wouldnt have done it.

There are plenty of other things CM Punk could have done. he is that good of a heel that he would have got over doing something else just as well.

 

[darbare]

I never once believed he was going to jump at all...if you believed that you had to be pretty gullible....but I was nervous the whole segment not because I though he would jump, but because I didnt want to see an accident like if he slipped or anything....knowing that he had on a harness made me feel better about it....segments can go wrong....he couldve slipped on a wet spot and fell awkwardly even with the harness which wouldve been scary.....but....it was unpredictable.....so it worked

 

[a7xfan93]

as airvar said, its not like we haven't seen jeff hardy jumping off of 50 ft. structures, that's suicide! I enjoyed this angle because it was different, and it actually entertained me. CM Punk is awesome

As for a different "initiation" nothing would of been like "OMG did he really do that" because we have already seen the vicious attacks from nexus, we already seen belts being used as weapons, there is nothing else that would be better than this "suicide" angle. it was brilliant

 

[billm75]

Um, I didn't think it was suicide talk, he was talking about hurting himself, breaking bones, but not dying. In fact, that's what he said to some degree. Anyhow, to call that "suicide talk" is taking it a little too far.

Again, what they did was great, especially when it was revealed that he was harnessed in with safety gear and a safety crew up there with him. He was playing the fans, not "talking suicide" dude.

 

[The Doctor]

HURR HURR, DAT'S NOT PG!!!!

No, it wasn't "too far", it was brilliant. It was gripping, it was shocking, it was captivating. I was glued to my screen, and really thought he was going to jump. Obviously I didn't think he'd die, but I was staring at my screen in shock, not sure WHAT would happen. And now Punk can use the fact that the crowd cheered for his death as fuel for Nexus and Punk's motives.

Look, the whole "That's not PG" argument is FUCKING stupid. The Simpsons is TV-PG! a lot of the Attitude Era was TV-PG! Why is it that we all call for an edgier product, but then when something edgy does happen, we complain? I like that the product knows when to pick and choose its edgy moments, because it makes them more impactful.

CM Punk's tron speech and the Nexus hazings made for gripping, surprising TV. I loved it.

 

[Johnny Scumm]

HURR HURR, DAT'S NOT PG!!!!

No, it wasn't "too far", it was brilliant. It was gripping, it was shocking, it was captivating. I was glued to my screen, and really thought he was going to jump. Obviously I didn't think he'd die, but I was staring at my screen in shock, not sure WHAT would happen. And now Punk can use the fact that the crowd cheered for his death as fuel for Nexus and Punk's motives.

Look, the whole "That's not PG" argument is FUCKING stupid. The Simpsons is TV-PG! a lot of the Attitude Era was TV-PG! Why is it that we all call for an edgier product, but then when something edgy does happen, we complain? I like that the product knows when to pick and choose its edgy moments, because it makes them more impactful.

CM Punk's tron speech and the Nexus hazings made for gripping, surprising TV. I loved it.

Well, I put the PG part in, as I knew there would be people that bring it up when they post. I myself was captivated by the whole segment, but when you know that a wrestler has died from similar means, don't you think that it's just a bit much?

 

[Nate21187]

And to Kinda Add on to what the Doctor said, Everyone says about how they wanted the Attitude ERA back and All and OMG they do some that people think doesn't fit into the PG standard and then HAve Something to say about it, IT Was ok when Vinny MAC portrayed the part of getting blown up in the PG Era but PUNK standing up there and talking bout all his stuff was sooooo bad come on now.... Get Real

 

[UltimateHitman]

I couldn't keep from thinking, even with all the harness talk, about Owen. And I think a lot of people probably thought the same way. Maybe I also read too much into it, but when he was saying things like (and I don't remember exactly so I'm not quoting) you would have to be stupid to jump from that height, etc. I couldn't help but think that it was in very poor taste and kind of disrespectful to Owen's memory. Some things should be just left alone, and that was one of them. Hell, for all we know, and knowing Vince, it could have been a slap in the face towards Martha Hart for the more recent legal aggrivation. Regardless, when you have a history of things such as Owen, the Hawk drunken falling thing, etc., it's time to leave well enough alone. Like somebody said Punk could have done any number of things to get that heat. It wasn't him on the 'Tron that did it, it was him insulting the crowd that got them riled and you could do that just as easily w/a different scenario.

Even if you take away the Owen thing and what not, I still think it was a dumb concept. It's not only the fact that WWE is PG rated, but the way in which he was saying everything was just too overboard with the whole sacrificing his life, blah blah blah. Could have had a different script and cut it shorter and it would've worked better.

Oh, and about the Hardy jumping off of things, he's actually jumping from them to perform a maneuver. Even though it's from the same height he's not standing there talking about "sacrificing his life" (which is about the same as saying suicide. I remember him saying this before he went into the broken bones, broken body stuff) and all that. I don't know, from many different views I thought it was pretty ******ed. Yeah, we know he wasn't going to do it, which means it didn't work at all for me. If it would have been a more believable scenario or initiation, and then having him do the same thing towards the crowd, it could've worked better.

P.S. I don't know how anyone could have thought he was going to jump, or who would be glued to the screen other than to shake your head and wait to see when the bit would be over. I like edgy as much as the next guy, but please. He's starting to come across as a loon, not a cunning manipulative persona which is obviously what they're trying for here, if they keep this up. All I'm saying is the whole thing across the board was a little much. Could be tweaked just a tad is all I'm saying here. I thought the best part of the Nexus angle was the new t-shirts and the Gabriel and Slater bit.

P.S.S. No, Vince getting blown up was not ok in the PG era. That was ******ed too. Not because it was "shocking" and "violent", but just because it was dumb.

 

[Acid]

No it wasn't too far. Of all the years I have seen wrestling I've seen things go further. I think Punk "contemplating" suicide is nowhere near as going to far as when Raven crucified Tommy Dreamer back in the original ECW. People actually got up and left the show with disgust, heck it's why Kurt Angle didn't sign with them and went with the WWF at the time. This in my opinion is also Punk taking another shot at TNA. They do is so often now, that I sit and wait to see when I spot it. Obviously he was talking about Jeff and how he's dumb for jumping off stages etc.

 

[The Doctor]

Well, I put the PG part in, as I knew there would be people that bring it up when they post. I myself was captivated by the whole segment, but when you know that a wrestler has died from similar means, don't you think that it's just a bit much?

No, it wasn't. You can bring up Owen all you want, but at the end of the day, that was a tragic accident caused by an improperly secured harness. They obviously wouldn't want to repeat that so they gave Punk a proper harness AND two spotters. I'm sure Punk was perfectly safe. He had room on the Tron to fall backwards should he have fallen, he had a harness and people making sure a tragedy didn't happen.

Seeing as he was safe, I have no problem with what was a shocking and captivating segment. It fit perfectly well into the boundaries of TV-PG, which is not the same as PG in movies, and it made for great television.

I think we in the IWC need to stop bitching and take entertainment at face value sometimes.

 

[sXe_Factor]

The very fact that you've made this thread proves one thing.
CM Punk has made a mark out of you.

The entire segment was done just for this kind of heat to come back at it. And for him to be able to say "Oh, you all wanted me to -die-, but you're complaining about the fact i threatened to?"

It didn't go too far. They nailed it perfectly.

 

[FatGuyIan]

Well, I put the PG part in, as I knew there would be people that bring it up when they post. I myself was captivated by the whole segment, but when you know that a wrestler has died from similar means, don't you think that it's just a bit much?

So there should never be anything to do with a safety harness ever again in WWE because the idiots in charge of creative over a decade ago made a stupid, stupid choice that cost the life of a great wrestler? Get real pal.

As far as CM Punk goes, kudos to WWE for doing something original for a change.

 

[UltimateHitman]

Still not getting all of the "shocking" and "captivating" talk. If he was obviously safe, where's the shock?

As soon as he started talking I was thinking "Good Lord, they hired Russo again?!" I mean, it's not the "edgy" part that makes me question all of this but just the fact that it was a dumb segment which doesn't fit anything they've been doing lately. I think that's part of the problem. It didn't fit. And not in a good way.

I mean, really, when you get right down to it, what's so "PG" about people getting beat down by a group of people or somebody punting people in the skull or people finding satisfaction in "ending people's careers"? Nothing. But society is weird in that we are de-sensitized by violence yet we're PC and touchy about even alluding to suicide. Even so, it was just so out of place and overdone. Edgy doesn't necessarily have to mean so far out in left field you're shaking your head and wondering where the hell that came from. Like I said above w/the punting and all of that, that was edgy yet kind of flowed and fit. This, sadly, just sucked.

 

[DForce]

That segment was intense and suspenseful, exactly what makes good TV. My 6 year son was viewing it. He was like "No, don't do it, Punk." Still, I don't take offense to Punk indirectly calling my son stupid because, hell, kids still think wrestling is real, just as they think Santa is real.

After Punk revealed the stunt, my son sort of sighed in relief, and of course, his dad was there to provide "Parental DisGretion", so there was no problem about "suicide talk". If, however, any adult thought Punk was actually going to jump, they are "stupid".

Overall the segment was entertaining; Punks an awsome showman and heel, and he and Cena's rivary will go down as one of the greatest.

 

[afark02]

it went too far. has vince learned nothing from the owen hart incident? A man died as a result a wrestler using a harness and his company was sued, gained negative media attention. this just shows how cocky and ignorant vince has to be to allow this angle.

 

[UltimateHitman]

So there should never be anything to do with a safety harness ever again in WWE because the idiots in charge of creative over a decade ago made a stupid, stupid choice that cost the life of a great wrestler? Get real pal.

Even Sting knocked off the coming out of the rafters because of this. A death, especially one so tragic and public, should not be forgotten so as to, at the very least, avoid history repeating itself.

Also, there have been plenty of other things that have been banned because of respect to other wrestlers. They outlawed Piledrivers because somebody got a broken neck. He didn't even die, but they banned them. And I don't see them used again.

You have people not even using other people's finishers because it reflects the other guy. Hell, they quit using chops so much because they didn't want Flair references, yet it's ok to remind people of Owen falling from the catwalk 80 ft. in the air onto his skull? As real as it gets, pal.

 

[klunderbunker]

This is the IWC in a nutshell:

IWC: "Get rid of this PG Era stuff! We want it catered to the adults!"

*The show caters to the adults*

IWC: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???? THAT'S WAY TOO FAR! Quit being so adult oriented!"

Yes, the same fans that pine for the days of Hawk actually jumping off the Titantron, of guns being pointed at people's heads, of lighting people on fire, of blowing shit up, of transvestites and a senior citizen getting pregnant, of a porn star character making porn movies and having a samurai sword chop off his penis and of attempted vehicular homicide are now saying TONE IT DOWN when a guy stands on the top of a screen with two guys behind him and a harness on to play mental games with a crowd.

In short: stop complaining about the PG Era or stop demanding that things be more like the Attitude Era because you're a bunch of damn hypocrites when you do so.

 

[The Doctor]

You have people not even using other people's finishers because it reflects the other guy. Hell, they quit using chops so much because they didn't want Flair references, yet it's ok to remind people of Owen falling from the catwalk 80 ft. in the air onto his skull? As real as it gets, pal.

The Flair Chop ban rumor was bullshit. Yoshi Tatsu uses them in every one of his matches on Superstars. And they DID take steps to make sure that history didn't repeat itself. If you'll remember, the Owen incident was caused by an improperly secured harness, with NO safety/backup features, and NO spotters. The CM Punk Titantron promo was done WITH a proper harness and TWO spotters. He was perfectly safe and he revealed that to us.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

I see people post stuff like this all the time about "How can they do ______________ on a PG show?" And I find it kind of funny that people bitch and moan about WWE being PG and how they want the attitude era back, but in the very next breath completely bashing WWE for doing something outside their view of what a PG show should be.

There are no set guidelines for what constitutes "PG" or "TV-14" as long as you don't have naked chicks, or drop four letter words, you're cool on a PG show.


Now as for the actual content, I would agree with one of the previous posters who said that the initiations of the other members was a bit more disturbing. But it was disturbing in a good way, I thought it made them come across as willing to follow and submitted to the cause. If CM Punk ever quit wrestling, he would make one hell of a cult leader. He plays that part so well, and almost every segment had some sort of messianic undertones to it. I loved it.

 

[Justin Satiable]

I don't think it was inappropriate, it was awesome. If you thought about Owen, you're reading way too far into it. Keep in mind that Owen was lowered from the rafters, not the titantron, with a completely different type of harness. It was a tragic accident caused by over-excitement and poor equipment planning.

As for the segment tonight, all I could personally think about was if Shane McMahon was gonna run out and scream "HEY I'M NOT STUPID!" at Punk during his whole 'tron speech. Kinda made it all a bit funnier than it needed to be.

ALSO, as for the night on the whole, the Nexus initiation angle was brutal, but brilliant. Nexus appears to be becoming more of a cult than a stable under Punk though, so I hope they don't push anything much further than they did tonight, else they will end up pushing it and crossing the line.

 

[D-Man]

This is the IWC in a nutshell:

IWC: "Get rid of this PG Era stuff! We want it catered to the adults!"

*The show caters to the adults*

IWC: "WHAT ARE YOU DOING???? THAT'S WAY TOO FAR! Quit being so adult oriented!"

Yes, the same fans that pine for the days of Hawk actually jumping off the Titantron, of guns being pointed at people's heads, of lighting people on fire, of blowing shit up, of transvestites and a senior citizen getting pregnant, of a porn star character making porn movies and having a samurai sword chop off his penis and of attempted vehicular homicide are now saying TONE IT DOWN when a guy stands on the top of a screen with two guys behind him and a harness on to play mental games with a crowd.

In short: stop complaining about the PG Era or stop demanding that things be more like the Attitude Era because you're a bunch of damn hypocrites when you do so.

And THIS, right here, is why I love KB.

Fucking hypocrites everywhere. You guys can't decide on whether you're coming or going when talking about what you approve and disapprove of on television. The funniest part is that the majority of yo that bitch about last night's angle are the same ones that praised Jeff Hardy for smoking his way down the entrance ramp at Genesis on Sunday.

Seriously, IWC. Stop being so fucking critical about every little thing that happens on TV. It's a show that's supposed to entertain us. And said entertainment often includes comedy, action, adventure, and every so often (you guessed it...) DRAMA. So quit acting so surprised and appalled like a bunch of Mother Theresa's and making yourselves out to be the saviors of an "offensive" product. Just watch the fucking TV show.

 

[martymcfly]

I find it interesting that posters have brought up owen...when I watched this segment I didn't think that at all.

To be honest, my main thought throughout the whole segment, especially when punk was talking about how stupid he'd have to be to have jumped and kept repeating that statement, was a message to the idiots who do backyard wrestling and jump off of the top of a second story house.

Personally I think that's all this segment was about.


On another note, for dman and klunderbunker talking about hypocrites: I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with you. But you have to remember that the IWC is full of thousands of posters, with thousands of different opinions. Many bemoan the days before the PG era, and many think PG is fine. But you can't logically lump in every person and every post into one entity, and then claim hypocrisy when what you are seeing is different people claiming different opinions. It's like if you were to go on a date with someone, and she said she liked italian so you go to an italian restaurant. Then you go on a date with a different person who claims she hates italian, and then you call her a hypocrite. That makes no sense because it is two different people. Same thing here.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't think it was too far at all. If anything, I see this as a case of people taking something and making it far more significant than it actually is. Punk being up on top of the Titan Tron wasn't condoning or encouraging suicidal behavior, I saw no parallels between Punk & Owen Hart last night, I saw no evidence whatsoever that Punk was actually going to jump, etc.

When you consider all the bitching and moaning you hear on these forums about the PG rating, some of the complaints about last night's Raw just make me sort of shake my head. Many say that they want edgier stuff shown on WWE television but complain at Husky Harris being whipped with straps last night. They say that they want topics to really generate enthusiastic discussion, yet they criticize CM Punk for being on the Titan Tron just because some of them had a thought about Owen Hart while it was going on. I've even heard many say that they can't see how last night's show was "PG" enough? The problem is that too many people have a set idea as to what they believe PG content is or should be rather than what it actually is. I've seen PG rated films or television shows featuring violent fights, women running around in skin tight clothing or little clothing, depictions of death, etc. PG simply doesn't always mean "kid's stuff" no matter how much the PG bashers might want it to.

If anything, I think the complaints and criticisms of last night's Raw is just yet further proof of why the WWE has no reason to listen to the IWC in general.