Punk in the Dog House

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

For all we know, that conversation has nothing to do with why Punk dropped the belt. Did anyone really think he was going to win? Against Taker? In Taker's own match? You can claim the whole 'Someone's trying to screw Taker, so why was there no interference?' argument if you like, but you should remember that they hyped the Cell's 'reinforcement' several times during that PPV, so interference wouldn't work anyway.

Madden used this as an excuse to jump on Taker as being as bad as Hogan used to be. Bullshit Madden, have you ever even met the Undertaker? He claims that Taker used politics to stay in the limelight and bury an up and comer based on this conversation. The same man who said, in an interview posted within a thread on this forum not long ago i might add, that he didn't care about titles, he just wanted to keep wrestling the top guys as long as he was at their level. And now suddenly, out of the fuckin' blue, he's going to come back and start throwing his weight around? Yeah, not buying that. Sure, that interview was 6 years ago, and yes Taker could have been lying on camera, but considering the number of jackoff nobodies he's jobbed to since, including such names as Heidenriech, Khali, Mark Henry, Mr. Kennedy, Kozlov and even Vince McMahon, and only 2 title wins that both lasted no more than a month, PLUS some truly AWESOME fueds he's been part of in the last 3 years alone, i'm more inclined to think that Madden don't know shit.

Why don't they give them more than 10 minutes at a time? Well i think it's because Taker's hip surgery hasn't done a great deal of good for him, and he simply can't do a HIAC match for half an hour or 45 minutes. He doesn't seem any faster than before he went on the shelf, and still seems to suffer the same aches and lingering injuries, but i'm just spitballing here, maybe they did only want them to have a 10 minute match.

Does Taker wear suits outside of the ring? No, he doesn't, but he's not often the Champion of the company for more than 5 minutes, and you rarely see him out and about anyway. Did Jeff Hardy wear suits? No, but again he was never champion long enough for him to need to. Look at Raw though. The guys who win the WWE title on RAW DO wear suits when they're at big social events and are representing the WWE. So does Edge. Taker doesn't APPEAR at those sorts of events. You don't turn up at a big charity event representing your company in a beenie hat and ripped jeans do you? No, you tidy yourself up a little, and try and look respectable. This is not the first time i've read of one of the WWE's long term employee's mentioning the talent's attire when they represent the company. I'm sure JR has mentioned it more than once (and i'm sure some idiot will say 'what does JR know?').

And as for the Cena comparison, well Punk should have kept his mouth shut with that remark. Farting in Cena's direction is enough for McMahon to release you in the blink of an eye. Stupid? Hell yeah, but sadly, just the way it is in modern day WWE.

 

[JBK2008]

Punk has done NOTHING to have the right to question how other wrestlers dress. When he has put several years into the business and poured his soul into it, then one day, maybe yeah he can say something. Shut your mouth, do your job, and move on. I don't agree 100% with Punk having to drop the belt to Taker so soon, but as far as punishment goes, yeah this was the best way to go about it. Punks history shows he isn't the most liked guy and if I were him, I'd spend my free time working on that for a while.

 

[TimeToPlayTheGame09]

I'm in between on this subject. One I think CM Punk should have listened to taker. he's been there a long time. If he thinks something is wrong then Punk should have thought twice. Two the WWE shouldn't have handled it the way they did. Placing the World Heavyweight Title match first was a bad mistake. Like someone previously said, it only lowers the value and prestige of the title. if they feel so strongly about what someone is wearing then enforce a dress code but don't single out one person. People are going to be happy with the WWE regardless of what the wrestlers wear.

 

[X]

Punk has done NOTHING to have the right to question how other wrestlers dress. When he has put several years into the business and poured his soul into it, then one day, maybe yeah he can say something.

He has poured years into this business, and he has poured his soul into this business. Wrestling is the biggest thing in Punk's life and has been for years now.

CM Punk has been wrestling for LONGER than John Cena has. So explain to me how Punk hasn't "earned the right", yet Cena has. Punk was pointing out a double standard. Do you people oppose fairness now, is that it?

Shut your mouth, do your job, and move on. I don't agree 100% with Punk having to drop the belt to Taker so soon, but as far as punishment goes, yeah this was the best way to go about it. Punks history shows he isn't the most liked guy and if I were him, I'd spend my free time working on that for a while.

How is this possibly the best way to go about it? By making one of your top heels look like shit? I'm pretty sure a hefty fine would have been a much more suitable punishment, because having Punk job in 10 minutes to Taker hurts not only him, but the WWE as well. Idiotic "punishment" if it was even that, because I still have my doubts about this story.

 

[Slyfox696]

CM Punk has been wrestling for LONGER than John Cena has. So explain to me how Punk hasn't "earned the right", yet Cena has.

Cena = Makes millions of dollars for the company

Punk = Poor drawing champion.


But good point, xfearbefore, the only way to determine who has earned things is simply based on experience in different companies. It certainly isn't based upon seniority in the WWE or even quality of work.

Punk was pointing out a double standard. Do you people oppose fairness now, is that it?

How is it unfair? I'm sure if Punk brought as much revenue to the WWE as Cena does, he could dress that way too.

How is this possibly the best way to go about it? By making one of your top heels look like shit?

I haven't seen the match, but then again, 95% of wrestling fans haven't seen the match. Please explain to me how losing to the good guy Undertaker in the Hell in a Cell match makes Punk look like shit, keeping in mind 95% of wrestling fans haven't seen the match.

I can't wait to hear this one.

 

[Dysturbed]

If Punk goes from having the title scene to quickly being far away from the title and jobbing a lot or even worse, doing it through squashes, then there will be more proof of him being in the doghouse as opposed to him just losing the title cause Taker was inevitably not going to lose his first feud back and was likely to win at some point. Otherwise it seems like speculation. If it's not speculation and the reports are completely true then it's one of those situations where even if someone (in this case Punk) has a good point and feels strongly like he should be able to make that point, it's probably best not to. We've all probably been in a situation where we want to speak up and know that doing so could lead to repercussions but not taking a stand would make is irritated as well so I can see where he may be coming from. Either way I guess we'll see what happens over the next few weeks with him.

 

[X]

Cena = Makes millions of dollars for the company

Punk = Poor drawing champion.

99.9% of champions in the last few years have been poor draws Sly. There's Cena...and that's about it. Maybe an argument could be made for Orton, maybe. If Punk isn't a draw, than I guess Undertaker isn't either, because he was just as big a part of the feud with Punk as CM was. Why is it Punk's fault? Smackdown is on a TERRIBLE network that more and more fans don't get every single day. And his tenure on Raw, no shit he wasn't a big draw, he wasn't even the center of that show when he was their champion (which was ridiculous).

But good point, xfearbefore, the only way to determine who has earned things is simply based on experience in different companies. It certainly isn't based upon seniority in the WWE or even quality of work.

'Cause that's totally what I said, right? No. I was responding to JBK, and he never said anything about seniority in the WWE (and neither did I Sly). Not sure where you're getting this idea from.

How is it unfair? I'm sure if Punk brought as much revenue to the WWE as Cena does, he could dress that way too.

Oh okay, so a rule that explicitly applies to EVERY SINGLE WRESTLER being violated by Cena is okay, but by Punk it's not? It's irrelevant how much they draw Sly, it's a rule. If everyone else has to follow it, so should Cena. That's like saying it's okay for an athlete to violate team rules if he's their best player or biggest moneymaker. How is that right? You can't seriously be defending violating company policy?

I haven't seen the match, but then again, 95% of wrestling fans haven't seen the match. Please explain to me how losing to the good guy Undertaker in the Hell in a Cell match makes Punk look like shit, keeping in mind 95% of wrestling fans haven't seen the match.

I can't wait to hear this one.

How did he look like shit? Because he lost in about 10 minutes in the opening match on a PPV to the Undertaker. Further more, he lost without anything "up his sleeve" so to say. Why hint at McMahon being the one behind the screwjob, and then just have Punk go out there with no plan whatsoever? That's completely illogical booking. I don't have a problem with Punk losing (well I do, but that's not my main issue), I have a problem with taking the belt off of one of their best young pieces of talent to throw it on the Undertaker for his 9000th meaningless title reign that will achieve abso-fucking-lutely nothing for Smackdown or the WWE. Vince whines about how they can't build new stars and then keeps giving the belt to guys like Undertaker. There isn't a single damn reason why 'Taker should be having the world title right now, he should be playing the HBK role right now; making younger talent look better.

 

[Slyfox696]

99.9% of champions in the last few years have been poor draws Sly. There's Cena...and that's about it.

Well, that's convenient, because Cena is reportedly the example Punk used.

Why is it Punk's fault? Smackdown is on a TERRIBLE network that more and more fans don't get every single day. And his tenure on Raw, no shit he wasn't a big draw, he wasn't even the center of that show when he was their champion (which was ridiculous).

So...

Punk's been a poor draw as champion on ECW, Raw, and Smackdown...but it's still not his fault? Makes sense.

'Cause that's totally what I said, right? No. I was responding to JBK, and he never said anything about seniority in the WWE (and neither did I Sly). Not sure where you're getting this idea from.

Your point was that Punk has earned it because he's been wrestling longer than Cena. I proved that silly.

Oh okay, so a rule that explicitly applies to EVERY SINGLE WRESTLER being violated by Cena is okay, but by Punk it's not?

Apparently. Or, perhaps, it's that Cena's CHARACTER embraces his dress, and Punk's really doesn't.

No, THAT couldn't be the issue.

It's irrelevant how much they draw Sly, it's a rule.

Oh, no it isn't. Those who make money get the benefits.

You can't seriously be defending violating company policy?

Obviously Cena's not violating company policy. If he was, then the WWE would punish him too.

How did he look like shit? Because he lost in about 10 minutes in the opening match on a PPV to the Undertaker. Further more, he lost without anything "up his sleeve" so to say.

And, as I said, 95% of wrestling fans didn't see it. So, again, please explain how he looks like shit.

I don't have a problem with Punk losing (well I do, but that's not my main issue), I have a problem with taking the belt off of one of their best young pieces of talent to throw it on the Undertaker for his 9000th meaningless title reign that will achieve abso-fucking-lutely nothing for Smackdown or the WWE.

You...you're kidding right? The WWE has been playing musical titles with both the Raw and Smackdown titles for a while now. You can't say it makes Punk bad to lose the title, when Orton has lost the WWE title 2 times already just this year, and has a good chance of losing it again at Bragging Rights.

Losing a title doesn't make you look bad, in today's WWE Championship climate.

Vince whines about how they can't build new stars and then keeps giving the belt to guys like Undertaker. There isn't a single damn reason why 'Taker should be having the world title right now, he should be playing the HBK role right now; making younger talent look better.

Punk isn't going to be megastar anytime soon. That much is already apparent.

Vince isn't whining about not building new stars, he's whining about not building new megastars.

 

[slayerofpanda]

climate.

Punk isn't going to be megastar anytime soon. That much is already apparent.

Vince isn't whining about not building new stars, he's whining about not building new megastars.

I agree with X, and also l I respectfully disagree with that part of the statement he was arguably the most hated heel in the past 2 months even eclipsing Orton. I think this does stunt his growth to that star power, I could have seen him going for a long title reign and him and the title growing to that mega star you say.

also just to chime in on the main topic, I feel more details need to come on on the story, but for what I can tell that PPV match sucked, there should have been a better finish.

 

[SSJPhenom]

How did he look like shit? Because he lost in about 10 minutes in the opening match on a PPV to the Undertaker. Further more, he lost without anything "up his sleeve" so to say. Why hint at McMahon being the one behind the screwjob, and then just have Punk go out there with no plan whatsoever? That's completely illogical booking. I don't have a problem with Punk losing (well I do, but that's not my main issue), I have a problem with taking the belt off of one of their best young pieces of talent to throw it on the Undertaker for his 9000th meaningless title reign that will achieve abso-fucking-lutely nothing for Smackdown or the WWE. Vince whines about how they can't build new stars and then keeps giving the belt to guys like Undertaker. There isn't a single damn reason why 'Taker should be having the world title right now, he should be playing the HBK role right now; making younger talent look better.

FTW, 'Taker has only had 6 meaningless title reigns. So there!

Anyway, I love how everyone just assumes that this program between Punk and 'Taker is over. I mean, people are talking like this is the end of Punk. It certainly isn't.

While, as a 'Taker fan, I love to see him with the title, but I agree that he shouldn't have it. He should be building new stars and who's to say that he isn't going to ultimately put Punk over?

Again, their feud is going to carry on until at least Survivor Series, so let's save the, "Undertaker should be building new stars," talk until after we see exactly what is going to happen.

That is all!

 

[X]

So...

Punk's been a poor draw as champion on ECW, Raw, and Smackdown...but it's still not his fault? Makes sense.

Why is he a poor draw? Because he draws 3's? Ratings didn't plummet when he was champion Sly, they stayed pretty much exactly the same on every single brand. Tons of great wrestlers have been poor drawing champions, Bret Hart was one of the worst drawing champions ever.

Your point was that Punk has earned it because he's been wrestling longer than Cena. I proved that silly.

Nope, never did I say that Punk has earned the right to violate the rules. I was responding to JBK, who made the claim that Cena has put his soul into the business and has wrestled for years and thus it's okay for him to break the rules, but not Punk. Which is silly because Punk has wrestled for longer than Cena, and has worked a lot harder.

Apparently. Or, perhaps, it's that Cena's CHARACTER embraces his dress, and Punk's really doesn't.

Are you kidding me? So was I just daydreaming about that new CM Punk t-shirt he's been wearing every week, the one with his name designed just like the old Ramones logo? His gimmick is that he's a straight-edge punk. Straight-edge punks don't exactly wear dinner jackets and slacks, do they?

Obviously Cena's not violating company policy. If he was, then the WWE would punish him too.

If he's not wearing slacks and a jacket on every tour, than yes Sly, he's violating company policy. That's the dress code, and nowhere in that code does it say "This doesn't apply to John Cena though because he's our biggest draw". Nowhere. The rules are meant for EVERYONE Sly. Seriously, I can't believe I'm debating this with you of all people.

And, as I said, 95% of wrestling fans didn't see it. So, again, please explain how he looks like shit.

Where are you getting this 95% of wrestling fans number? Has the buyrate for HIAC already been released? It was a WWE PPV, millions of fans watched this happen Sly. Millions.

You...you're kidding right? The WWE has been playing musical titles with both the Raw and Smackdown titles for a while now. You can't say it makes Punk bad to lose the title, when Orton has lost the WWE title 2 times already just this year, and has a good chance of losing it again at Bragging Rights.

What does Orton have to do with this conversation? Nothing. But yeah, if Orton lost the title to Cena or HBK in 10 minutes I'd say that reflects poorly on Orton as well.

Punk isn't going to be megastar anytime soon. That much is already apparent.

And how the fuck do you know that? He's just entering the prime of his career. It took guys like Guerrero, Benoit, HBK, and Bret hart years and years and years before being considered "stars". Unless you can predict the future Sly, I don't want to hear about your personal opinion on why you don't like Punk and don't think he has star power potential. I don't care what you think of him quite frankly.

Vince isn't whining about not building new stars, he's whining about not building new megastars.

No, he was whining about new stars. Not megastars. Megastars aren't exactly an easy commodity, there's been about 4 in the entire history of the WWE.

You can't predict the future Sly. So stop pretending like you can.

 

[maar130]

Well, the thing about being a draw can be discussed because since Cena was with e Company since 2002 and Punk has been with it since 2006. In that Period Punk Has become Intercontinetal Champion, Tag Team Champion, ECW Champion and World Champion 3 times while in 3 years Cena only had 2 titles, so if you look only at the numbers (which would be a mistake) CM Punk has been more succesful than Cena.

Also enough with the dress code alreay, non of us like a dress code but if the WWE has one and allow one or two guys a free pass that their problem, is not fair to Punk or anyone else but that is the way it is and if someone like Jericho and Edge, who complained about it and has more time in than John Cena can follow it, so can Punk.

Cena has more years in the company than Punk (4 to be exact) and everyone knows than due that he will be favored over any othe guy who got there later, being Punk or anyone else.

And to say that almost everyone in the last years has been a poor draw would need to be examinated since this for the time and economy WWE has defended theirselves pretty good in the US, and internationally the have got better deals than in past years.

CM Punk is a draw as Champion and as a wrestler, Smackdown to be on the kind of Shitty network that it is, Has had pretty decent raitngs since Punk got there and was Champion, but also they had that kind of Rating when the Undertaker was the Champion.

Cena is also a draw, a very good draw, if you think he is not, ask the kids, certainly kinds does not have money to buy products, but their parents do and with that being said , Kids have more purchasing power than any teenager who makes the minimun wage to get WWE stuff and say Cena sucks.

Taker is not completely playing the HBK role but at some degree he is, He got the belt, right, but in the last few years he put over a good number of stablished and new comers with that not completely burying himself (like Batista, HHH, Hardy, Show, Koslov), the only thing is tha HBK does not want the belt because that means he will have to make more apperances than he wants to and Taker is willing to do so. He and HBK also need keep winning (How many matches has Shawn lost in the last year? Taker and him go head to head on that more or less) since both are still draws for the audience old and new.

If there is a reason for him to get the belt is that he is Smackdown biggest Draw (like it or not) right now, They go to an international tour before the PPV and He will be there probably facing Punk. What you wanted? to give the title to Morrison? Sorry man but is too soon.

And come on, do you really thing Punk is out of the Picture? this is just a back down, crap the guy is too good, probaly even if the story is true (more rumors have surfaced about him that does not even involve the Undertaker or the dress code for that matter) they did it just to adjust his act and even if he does not they will probably will give him another shot as the World title holder.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I would like to put an end to this arguement with this 'Taker interview. Watch the whole thing and maybe you might understand why 'Taker pulled CM Punk aside and talked to him.

[youtube] <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ld8-IDtN9Uo&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ld8-IDtN9Uo&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> [/youtube]

Punk should have respected what 'Taker said and just went on. IDK why you people want to defend what Punk was wearing. If he wasn't supposed to wear it then he should have been punished. If he had have listened to 'Taker, he wouldn't have gotten punished.

 

[Tastycles]

I don't think the issue is as black and white as everyone is making out. I don't believe much of what I read on wrestling news sites, but there are two key points I feel need addressing here. The first is that creative were apparently in two minds about which of Punk and Taker should walk out of the PPV as champion, so it makes sense that a small incident could tip the scales. The other is more important. It has been reported that Punk has an attitude problem a few times. Clearly, this was seen as a mainfestation of that that needed to be nipped in the bud.

All in all, this has been blown wildly out of proportion. Punk isnt the first person to lose out on a title because of an off screen incident, and I'm sure he won't be the last. This won't affect his ultimate employment and career in the slightest.

 

[Motor City Jeezy]

...he lost in about 10 minutes in the opening match on a PPV to the Undertaker. Further more, he lost without anything "up his sleeve" so to say. Why hint at McMahon being the one behind the screwjob, and then just have Punk go out there with no plan whatsoever? That's completely illogical booking. I don't have a problem with Punk losing (well I do, but that's not my main issue), I have a problem with taking the belt off of one of their best young pieces of talent to throw it on the Undertaker for his 9000th meaningless title reign that will achieve abso-fucking-lutely nothing for Smackdown or the WWE.

I would like to think that at the next PPV, Punk will find a way to win. It better be good, too, for the way he lost at HIAC. Watching him wrestle Batista this past Friday reminded me of his title run at RAW, which was pathetic to say the least. During most of the time Punk has had the World title on SmackDown, it's been completely legit. No one questioned his ability to be a champion. Now all of a sudden, there have to be cheats and screwjobs. Why? Just because it's the Undertaker?

I have to agree with you. Even though Punk might be in the dog house, the WWE can't just start this big conspiracy, and then drop the whole angle. It received so much attention only to be completely removed and ignored. I think that the screwjobs and the cheats will come back at Bragging Rights. Punk will win it back, and find ways to hang onto it like he did before the Undertaker arrived.