Problem With Brock VS Punk

[Барбоса]

Yes, Punk is too small when compared, ridiculously so, but I am disregarding that and I said so in the OP, my concern is how does a fan-favourite Punk believably beat Brock? And how do you do it protecting Brock's image for further storyline purposes as well?

Sure, he was beating the likes of Del Rio, Ziggler and Jericho but you seem to forget that face Punk was an absolute winning machine. It was only when he turned heel that he started to lose matches regularly.

How does Punk believeably beat Lesnar? It is rather simple. By following the tried and tested David vs Goliath formula. By having the same kind of matches/performances that he had against John Cena, who found it almost impossible to defeat face Punk. By having a similar match as Cena had with Brock - take a beating, fight on, hit a home run on Brock's head with the ring bell and then blast him in the face with a weight-assisted GTS. 1-2-3.

People are making it far more intricate than it needs to be. Vicious killers have been beaten by much smaller men before but still kept their image - Vader in WCW, Hell, it has even happened with Lesnar already in his current run.

And anyway, what is the big need to defend Lesnar? The likelihood is that after his feud with Punk, he will disappear for a few months only to return around Elimination Chamber to set up a match with Rock or Undertaker for Wrestlemania. His name alone will sell.

 

[Con T.]

Brock lost to Cena because he was kept down barely for a 3 count, I remember Brock up on his feet, groggy but up, soon after. Actually his win at Triple H has made him more 'human' lately. So, I guess this is the best time to go up against Punk.

I think we've reached the crux of the issue; you're making assumptions on how this is booked, without it actually being booked yet. You're assuming Punk will have to make Brock tap, or that Brock will be booked poorly against Punk.

Punk's just as great a worker as Cena was, and damn was that a great match between him and Lesnar. All I'm asking is to consider all the different ways this can be booked, as opposed to focusing on the negatives. Right now, you're condemning the endpoint, without having made the trip.

Yeah, but REY has REAL WRESLTING SKILL, he is fast, and technically sound!

Oh God, here we freaking go

- I dont care what you cm punk fans say, THE TRUTH is PUNK IS NOT A GOOD WRESTLER!

It isn't just Punk fans, it's a good portion of his work force, other wrestlers, the company he works for, anyone that's pushed Punk. In fact, you're really the minority on this one, who doesn't seem to have a clue.

- Punk is sloppy, and doesnt esecute well

Brock is dangerous to work with, and doesn't execute well, either. The truth is, Punk's a great wrestler, because he gets an audience to care.

- PUNK does not look the part, he is too skinny with no muscle tone! Its not even CLOSE to BELIEVABLE that he can hurt, in any way LESNAR

Again, Lesnar looks very similar to Cena, why is it so unbelievable?

 

[d_henderson1810]

I think it can be done.

Granted, in a normal match, Brock would dominate, but they could then have them have a Last-Man-Standing Match, where weapons are allowed, and Punk could beat Brock down so much that he eventually can't get up anymore. A long, drawn-out match, where Punk escapes some 9-counts, could play to this.

Also, you could do a cage match, where Punk could escape over the cage.

In stip matches, you can cover such deficiencies, so maybe have Brock dominate at Summerslam, brag that Punk can't beat him, and then have Punk beat him using weapons or some tactic which evens the odds. If done cleverly, it could and should work.

 

[scomvp316]

-Some who say Punk's MMA training doesn't matter should read the facts below
-Punk has been a licensed kick boxer for over a decade
-He just graduated Gracie Academy #2 in the class against Bellator Fighters and possibly future UFC Fighters so its not amateur
-In the UFC among many fighters Lesnar had the worst chin in the history of MMA so that can play into the gameplan of how the match or matches should go

 

[Kidpolean]

-Some who say Punk's MMA training doesn't matter should read the facts below
-Punk has been a licensed kick boxer for over a decade
-He just graduated Gracie Academy #2 in the class against Bellator Fighters and possibly future UFC Fighters so its not amateur
-In the UFC among many fighters Lesnar had the worst chin in the history of MMA so that can play into the gameplan of how the match or matches should go

- What the hell does kickboxing have to do with the WWE. I do muay thai and CM Punk has terrible form on his kicks, it seems like he has no clue how to throw a proper kick

-WHO CARES......This is pro wrestling not a BJJ competition

-Lesnar has the worst chin in the history of MMA? What? Ok now I know you have no clue what you are talking about. Lesnar has never been KO'd, so how the hell would you know what kind of chin he has. TKO is different from a KO, and Lesnar has never been KO'd

Wrestling is fake...can we stop with this crap. Mysterio has won the title many times so why does everyone have a problem with Punk. MMA has nothing to do with pro wrestling and I dont care who would win a real fight cuz it doesn't matter. As long as they put on a great match, I don't care who wins.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

Do people not realize that in real life some of the toughest guys are small guys? Lesnar was protected in UFC and still got exposed. A couple of legit kicks to his fucked up insides and he would be down on the ground.

Eddie Guerrero beat Brock Lesnar. He beat Brock when Brock was MUCH bigger. Let me says that again EDDIE GUERRERO DEFEATED BROCK LESNAR. Punk beating Lesnar is nowhere near being unbelievable in predetermined entertainment.

You want to talk unbelievable how about anybody beating Andre? All he had to do was sit on people and he would win.

 

[CmPunker]

Do people not realize that in real life some of the toughest guys are small guys? Lesnar was protected in UFC and still got exposed. A couple of legit kicks to his fucked up insides and he would be down on the ground.

Eddie Guerrero beat Brock Lesnar. He beat Brock when Brock was MUCH bigger. Let me says that again EDDIE GUERRERO DEFEATED BROCK LESNAR. Punk beating Lesnar is nowhere near being unbelievable in predetermined entertainment.

You want to talk unbelievable how about anybody beating Andre? All he had to do was sit on people and he would win.

Are you fucking serious man? Comparing real MMA fighting to scripted professional wrestling? In wrestling, you are much more limited and you cant show off your fighting skills as much.. add to the fact that cm punk is not even that athletic in the 1st place, has a unreliable finisher, and he has an unimpressive physique..

eddie guerrero was muscular as fuck compared to cm punk.. he was on fuckin steroids. eddie guerrero's arm is 3 times as big as cm punk's arm.. how can u compare the two lol? eddie guerrero is jacked as shit!

difference between andre the giant and brock lesnar.. there are 2 types of big men.. 1. big men who have no agility (henry, big show, vader) and big men who have very good agility (brock lesnar, ryback, sheamus, batista).. what makes lesnar EVEN MORE unique is that he is a fucking UFC fighter and the way he has been booked is incredible and pretty scary. he made john cena bleed in the 1st minute of the match and broke shawn michael's and triple h's arms in their 1st encounters. when u see brock lesnar and cm punk in the ring together and compare them.. u cant take punk seriously. lesnar is just too fast and strong for him. punk would need weapons to win

 

[Whoop21]

Like someone else said, Punk going against Lesnar isn't any different than Eddie Guerrero going against Lesnar. Going by the "realistic" logic, how can anyone minus Taker, Kane, Henry, Khali go against Big Show?

Punk/Lesnar is going to be entertaining and I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

A few quick things first:

• Eddie was a face that USED heelish tactics to win (lie, cheat, steal); not the same thing here.
• Are we just blatantly disregarding the huge assist from Goldberg at No Way Out? If I remember correctly, Brock had Eddie down and the ref was knocked out.

Ok, I'll give you a kinda similar scenario. You remember when ADR was facing Punk in 2011 for the strap and ADR was doing his asinine shit on the stick; and Punk pretty much verbally raped him. See that's what it is. You have to protect your superstars from certain things. Didn't VKM bar all bald jokes on Hogan during the Golden Era? I know these are but in a different spectrum, but all I'm trying say is, there has to be protection for the wrestler storyline wise from causing them some permanent damage. ADR never properly recovered from that feud, he became too jaded in the fans' eyes.


I'll stand in the minority and say I cannot believe in a Punk win over Brock. It's just too big a mismatch; not only because of Brock's size, but because of his gimmick as well. Maybe I shouldn't be thinking that WWE will book Brock weak no matter what, maybe I shouldn't give a damn about Brock's appeal at all, none of my concern but, I like Brock. Always have. The repercussions after his match with Punk might just take away a chunk of that big match feel that he brings, THATS my concern. I have said that I would take Sheamus vs Brock and pay to see these bulls kill each other. Perhaps it could elevate Sheamus' star to a whole new level in the WWE. I know I am in the minority here too. But I guess you must put your top TOP dogs in there with Brock, and the 2nd top dog at the mo' is Punk.

Trepidation galore.

 

[ADLegend21]

I seem to remember Brock Lesnar being on a top ten sellers video somewhere near the top. Brock can sell like nobody's business so there's no way he won't make it look like Punk can't beat him when he's on the defensive. Punk is sound technically and he and Brock can throw some MMA moves in there.

Sid enote: If size mattered Big show or Khali would be the ones with 434 day title reigns instead of CM Punk but Punk fought and defeated all comers from November 2011 to January 2013. Hell ADR beat Big show in 2 consecutive last man standing matches using a table and duct tape respectively.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

PG with another successful thread.

The answer here is to just look at the past. Punk has consistently put on competitive looking matches with guys like UT, Kane, Cena, and Show to a lesser extent. He can do it with Lesnar. Don't let Lesnar get in the level of offense he had over HHH and Cena and it can still stay believable.

Just don't put them nose to nose in promos, which shouldn't be much of a problem since Lesnar is never there.

 

[Pepper Lewis]

Well, in Reality, we ALL KNOW that DEL RIO/ Ziggler/ Jericho would EASILY MOP THE FLOOR with cm punk!

1. Guys that used to beat BIG Monster's like Big Van Vader, WERE BELIEVABLE, cause they were Athletic ( Shawn Michaels), GREAT SHAPE ( STING) or MASTER's of the RING ( Ric Flair) or ( Strong Big Men) Hulk Hogan> . cm punk is neither of these! cm punk is NOT Athletic, is not in shape, is not strong, is not a RING MASTER! ( PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION!) cm punk is sloppy, and does not execute well!) cm punk has no business in WWE! FANS ARE STUPID TODAY!

Sure, he was beating the likes of Del Rio, Ziggler and Jericho but you seem to forget that face Punk was an absolute winning machine. It was only when he turned heel that he started to lose matches regularly.

How does Punk believeably beat Lesnar? It is rather simple. By following the tried and tested David vs Goliath formula. By having the same kind of matches/performances that he had against John Cena, who found it almost impossible to defeat face Punk. By having a similar match as Cena had with Brock - take a beating, fight on, hit a home run on Brock's head with the ring bell and then blast him in the face with a weight-assisted GTS. 1-2-3.

People are making it far more intricate than it needs to be. Vicious killers have been beaten by much smaller men before but still kept their image - Vader in WCW, Hell, it has even happened with Lesnar already in his current run.

And anyway, what is the big need to defend Lesnar? The likelihood is that after his feud with Punk, he will disappear for a few months only to return around Elimination Chamber to set up a match with Rock or Undertaker for Wrestlemania. His name alone will sell.

 

[Pepper Lewis]

FOR THE CM PUNK FANS< that for some reason in the BRAINLESS MINDS think cm punk is an MMA Fighter! Please open you eyes and mind! VERY SIMPLE

1. cm punk DOES NOT execute well, not even average!
2. Common Sense tells you, if cm punk was this good, at MMA he would have had a few matches already at his age!
3. DONT FORGET cm punk TRIES TO COPY EVERYTHING HE DOES FROM THE PAST WRESTLERS ( Punk has no creativity in him!)
--Copied his moves from an Asian Wrestler ( Go look on youtube)
--Tries to copy moves, LIKE THE SAVAGE ELBOW, which he does so sloppy!
---( Punk you are NO WHERE NEAR, the SKILL OF A RANDY SAVAGE!) lol idiot
-- Tries to copy RIC FLAIR's Heel Arguments with the fans ( for example when he yells at nearst guy, " Shut up Fat Boy!" ( Oh real original cm punk, How many times did you hear that watching NWA/Wcw growing up?)

cm punk is a fraud, Fans like him, cause they know no better! cm punk, the MOST OVERRATED GUY IN WWE HISTORY!)

- What the hell does kickboxing have to do with the WWE. I do muay thai and CM Punk has terrible form on his kicks, it seems like he has no clue how to throw a proper kick

-WHO CARES......This is pro wrestling not a BJJ competition

-Lesnar has the worst chin in the history of MMA? What? Ok now I know you have no clue what you are talking about. Lesnar has never been KO'd, so how the hell would you know what kind of chin he has. TKO is different from a KO, and Lesnar has never been KO'd

Wrestling is fake...can we stop with this crap. Mysterio has won the title many times so why does everyone have a problem with Punk. MMA has nothing to do with pro wrestling and I dont care who would win a real fight cuz it doesn't matter. As long as they put on a great match, I don't care who wins.

 

[scomvp316]

-Actually Punk has been licensed for 15 years in Muay Thai which means his feet are registered weapons
-Punk has to change his form much like ADR and Bryan have to so they really don't injury someone
-Mir,JDS,and Verdeem with punches to his chin had put Lesnar on the defensive which led to stoppages
-I watch every UFC event so I think I know what I am talking about
-The MMA aspect is for WWE try to get back some fans who know watch UFC instead of any form of wrestling

- What the hell does kickboxing have to do with the WWE. I do muay thai and CM Punk has terrible form on his kicks, it seems like he has no clue how to throw a proper kick

-WHO CARES......This is pro wrestling not a BJJ competition

-Lesnar has the worst chin in the history of MMA? What? Ok now I know you have no clue what you are talking about. Lesnar has never been KO'd, so how the hell would you know what kind of chin he has. TKO is different from a KO, and Lesnar has never been KO'd

Wrestling is fake...can we stop with this crap. Mysterio has won the title many times so why does everyone have a problem with Punk. MMA has nothing to do with pro wrestling and I dont care who would win a real fight cuz it doesn't matter. As long as they put on a great match, I don't care who wins.

 

[Kidpolean]

-Actually Punk has been licensed for 15 years in Muay Thai which means his feet are registered weapons
-Punk has to change his form much like ADR and Bryan have to so they really don't injury someone
-Mir,JDS,and Verdeem with punches to his chin had put Lesnar on the defensive which led to stoppages
-I watch every UFC event so I think I know what I am talking about
-The MMA aspect is for WWE try to get back some fans who know watch UFC instead of any form of wrestling

First off, no you do not have to change your form...all you have to do is take some force off your kick. Daniel Bryan throws muay thai kicks with correct form. Plus they have kick pads on so its already not as strong. When we spar in muay thai we dont change our form because that wouldnt make any sense, all we do is take force off so we dont injure our partner, same concept as pro wrestling. Punk's kicks looks like something a five year old with do while pretending he was a ninja.

- Like I said a TKO is different than a KO. How can you say Lesnar has a worst chin than people that have been completely knocked out multiple times. You have absolutely no way of proving this until he has been completely knocked out. I watch UFC as well and you saying Lesnar has one of the worst chins in history is just plain false and makes no sense. Have you heard of guys like Wanderlei Silva, he has a terrible chin because every time you see him he is knocked out laying flat on the mat...something Lesnar has never done

Punk 15 years is bs...the guys form is so bad that there is no way he has been training for 15 years...When did he have time to do all this training? Hes on the road all year and according to his dvd, he's been on the road for 12 years. It takes going to training 5 days a week for 2-3 hours a day to be truly great at Muay Thai or any other martial art and there is no way Punk could have done that at any point in the last 10 years

I dont understand why people are trying to make Punk out to be some ass kicking machine...Hell he couldnt even KO that random fan that was completely unaware that he was going to be hit. If any UFC fighter hits you out of nowhere, like Punk did to that fan, you would be sleep for a couple of minutes. He did a close quarters back fist and the guy barely flinched.

 

[MCMG]

I am excited for this match. It will almost certainly be at SummerSlam as that is a bigger PPV. Heyman, is of course, an interesting dynamic in this match and I'm curious to see where he fits.

Punk can win/Lesnar can lose. At the end of the day, Lesnar is a "business man". He is getting payed handsomely for this match - win, loose or draw. Punk will be there after which helps his cause. What does the WWE gain from Punk losing? What does the WWE gain from Lesnar winning? These two questions mean that I am leaning towards a Punk victory. There is no point in making Punk look weak and Lesnar will still be a massive name regardless of the outcome.

 

[rocksaviour]

I agree with the comments made over Micheals using the fake leg on Diesel and Eddie's match and win over Lesnar in 2004. It is always possible that a babyface can beat a bigger/monster superstar.

Punk needs the win after losing high profile matches in the first few months of this year indeed he does. I see him being entered into a MITB match and being attacked by Lesnar again. Punk seeks retribution at Summerslam, he can get it then or maybe challenge Lesnar to a HIAC match at HIAC and win there if he lost out in the previous encounter. Lesnar can then go away for a few months and build up to his match at Wrestlemania either against Rocky or Taker and Punk can win the WWE title at Survivor Series, TLC or Royal Rumble which will complete his rebuilding process since the end of his title reign at the Royal Rumble this year.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I am excited for this match. It will almost certainly be at SummerSlam as that is a bigger PPV. Heyman, is of course, an interesting dynamic in this match and I'm curious to see where he fits.

Punk can win/Lesnar can lose. At the end of the day, Lesnar is a "business man". He is getting payed handsomely for this match - win, loose or draw. Punk will be there after which helps his cause. What does the WWE gain from Punk losing? What does the WWE gain from Lesnar winning? These two questions mean that I am leaning towards a Punk victory. There is no point in making Punk look weak and Lesnar will still be a massive name regardless of the outcome.

Rematch $$$. It's why The Rock beat Cena at WM 28. If Lesnar is going to be around for another year and a half it gives Punk time for a rematch and redemption story. The story I expected him to get with HHH at some point but has not come. I wonder if he will get this chance with The Rock.

Regardless, Punk going face really takes away any excitement I ever had for the concept of Punk/Austin.

 

[scomvp316]

-I respect other people's opinion even if it differs from mine
-I don't consider myself an expert just a longtime rabid fan
-I don't know too much about the techniques in the fight game just been a UFC fan for about two years
-I do know that Punk has had a private kickboxing instructor all the way back to at least his ROH days
-Other than Punk's less than stellar attitude at times towards fans I would like to know what the Punk haters think his number one asset and his number one fault is in the ring
-I admit I am a Punk mark much like I enjoy Bryan and Ziggler
-The Lesnar comment was from some of my friends who work behind the scenes for UFC of some opinions of full-time fighters
-I am sure their opinion is some what based off of Lesnar been a pro wrestler and then quitting UFC to go back to pro wrestling
-The reason I and others have brought up Punk's MMA Training which doesn't mean he should go into the fight game makes to be a good underline to the storyline seeing Lesnar was in the UFC and recently Punk had graduated the Gracie Academy #2 against current fighters who some are in Bellator and possible future UFC fighters

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

If that were the case, guys like the Big Show would never lose.

Suspending disbelief is one of wrestling's great treasures. You can see a smaller guy upend a bigger one and cheer when it happens.

Punk can hold his own as a martial artist, too so it's not like this would be completely one sided in an actual fight. Besides, the story's what will sell this, not the catch-as-catch-can match they're not going to have.

 

[Kidpolean]

-I respect other people's opinion even if it differs from mine
-I don't consider myself an expert just a longtime rabid fan
-I don't know too much about the techniques in the fight game just been a UFC fan for about two years
-I do know that Punk has had a private kickboxing instructor all the way back to at least his ROH days
-Other than Punk's less than stellar attitude at times towards fans I would like to know what the Punk haters think his number one asset and his number one fault is in the ring
-I admit I am a Punk mark much like I enjoy Bryan and Ziggler
-The Lesnar comment was from some of my friends who work behind the scenes for UFC of some opinions of full-time fighters
-I am sure their opinion is some what based off of Lesnar been a pro wrestler and then quitting UFC to go back to pro wrestling
-The reason I and others have brought up Punk's MMA Training which doesn't mean he should go into the fight game makes to be a good underline to the storyline seeing Lesnar was in the UFC and recently Punk had graduated the Gracie Academy #2 against current fighters who some are in Bellator and possible future UFC fighters

I respect this post

-Im not a punk hater..in fact I believe he is a top 3 wrestler in the world right now and the only people that rival him are Aries and Bryan. I just feel that at times he is sloppy and he is not very athletic.

- I think Punk vs Lesnar is fine. The size difference doesnt matter. Wrestling is supposed to be over the top and against the norm. I dont understand how people are saying that a size difference makes it not believable when we have a guy that says he is dead and another guy that can control fire. Pro wrestling was not made to be real, its made to be entertaining and that is all that should matter

 

[dicap]

theres gonna be some sort of tag team match comming here cm punk and triple h vs axel and lessnar does noe else see this match happening because thats what they are going to make andits going to set up for a new tagteam or the return of dx with punk and hbk retuning to take on the sheild

 

[El Rev sXe]

Well how many freaking times have we seen over the course of decades the David vs Goliath storyline? If Rey Mysterio can beat Batista... I see it going like this: for weeks Punk says that Lesnar is a beast blablabla but he isn't at all like Cena nor HHH. At some point Lesnar attacks Punk (a couple of times) destroying him. No one believes he can do it, the day of the match Lesnar beats the shit out of Punk. But you need to keep in mind there's no way that Lesnar is going to be involved in a traditional wrestling match, NO DQ, Falls count anywhere, extreme rules match any of the likes. That being said, Punk could low blow him hit him with a chair or something and win.

While Punk isn't like Eddie (cheats to win), he isntt the typical babyface that is going to always follow the rules, in fact while Punk can be massacred for most of the match he could pull (much like Cena did) a last minute move that can almost KO Lesnar.

It isn't impossible at all for Punk to win...Plus if the WWE sees him as a true top dog, a win like this can do mucho for him.

 

[flawd101]

punk can work with anyone. i would be shocked if we got a bad match.
punk vs lesnar has been inevitable since punk started hanging out with heyman.
punks last three opponents were Rock, cena, and Undertaker. all loses, he needs a big win. The time off tv has reset him to a face role. which makes this a good time for lesnar to lose and then disappear until rumble/wm next year.

I am excited to see how hhh, axel, rvd, and potential dbryan fit into the next stage of this story.

 

[scomvp316]

-I think Punk beating Lesnar would be better for his character than beating Cena
-I also think other than winning in his hometown for the title this could be a major moment for Punk that WM isn't involved
-I do agree hes sloppy and Punk has admitted in the past he gets lazy at times
-Just imagine when he first wrestled he was even more sloppy than he is now

I respect this post

-Im not a punk hater..in fact I believe he is a top 3 wrestler in the world right now and the only people that rival him are Aries and Bryan. I just feel that at times he is sloppy and he is not very athletic.

- I think Punk vs Lesnar is fine. The size difference doesnt matter. Wrestling is supposed to be over the top and against the norm. I dont understand how people are saying that a size difference makes it not believable when we have a guy that says he is dead and another guy that can control fire. Pro wrestling was not made to be real, its made to be entertaining and that is all that should matter