Presidential Address on Iraq

Yeah, it is our issue. We're the ones that decided we were going to come in there and completely change the lives of millions and millions of people. We've spent money and it's hurt our economy, but we've altered the entire country and the lives of its people forever. We broke it, and its our job to take care of those people now. There's no plausible way to do that though, so we're doing the best we can.

As for pulling out immediately and letting it fall into chaos, you can be the person that has to explain to the families of the thousands of soldiers that died why everything they gave their lives for has been for nothing because we just gave up.
 
Yea, pulling out of Iraq, but re-distributing stronger forces in Afgahnistan.

Didn't you see the West Point address in liiikkee what was it, December?
 
Yeah, it is our issue. We're the ones that decided we were going to come in there and completely change the lives of millions and millions of people. We've spent money and it's hurt our economy, but we've altered the entire country and the lives of its people forever. We broke it, and its our job to take care of those people now.

Its not our JOB to take care of these nations. We are doing it because of some false ideals that we can somehow change these places into sunshine and lolipops and eliminate all of the terrorists.

Yes we destroyed their previous regime, but we gave them a new one, we gave them democracy, and we eliminated most of their biggest terrorists. We have given them years to get ready, so it is totally within our right to leave now, and right away.

This is a nation that may collapse no matter what we do, so if we stay there for a long time it may be a waste of time. No matter how long we stay there there will be terrorists, and why? Because we are there. Sure they have radical motivations from religions, but that is only a means to an end. It has been shown in many other areas that when our forces withdraw completely the motivation to kill these "evil oppressors" is eliminated, and these radical religious people no longer have an audience to attract. In this way total withdrawal may be helpful to them.

There's no plausible way to do that though, so we're doing the best we can.

We shouldnt be doing it in the first place, there is no real plausible way and every time we attempt to nation build it fails.

As for pulling out immediately and letting it fall into chaos, you can be the person that has to explain to the families of the thousands of soldiers that died why everything they gave their lives for has been for nothing because we just gave up.

Dont give me that guilt bullshit. We didnt "give up" we are involved in an endless war with no solution. No matter what we do the nation may fall into chaos. It is the governments fault these troops are dieing not the fault of those that want to save them from the overzealous government and its crusade of democracy.

These people died to defend our freedoms and I respect the hell out of them and I wont allow you to use your false ideals to tell me I dont, but they are fighting in a war we should be in in the first place, and if the only motivation not to leave is because our troop have died in a misleading and formally undeclared and unconstitutional war then we might as well end it right now.

Let the families take it up with those in power and throw them all out for the injustices committed against them and other countries as well as our own, not someone like me that is only doing what is right according to our founding principals.
 
All of this debate could be avoided...

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Yup, nukes solve everything. Look there's really no easy solution. You can argue all day weather or not we should have been in Iraq (which in my opinion we never should have gone there) in the first place. There's no denying Sadam had to go.
 
Yeah we kind of did cause this. We decided to go into Iraq for whatever Bush's final bullshit reason was and the people's lives are changed forever because of it. It is our job to fix it because if not, then what are we other than people that go in, ruin people's lives and then go back home and live our happy lives like we didn't do a damn thing?
 
I didnt know that this section was here but at least Im on the uptake here.

I want you to know I agree with all of you in terms of morals, Im not a heartless fucker Ill tell you that. I feel sad at what weve done to the peoples homes and nations. However from a perspective of what our nation is meant to do and what the founders wanted our continued existence in the region is in the wrong.

Someone said before "Saddam needed to go", well how was that up to us? The simple answer is it wasnt. Saddam posed no threat to us, as a matter of fact many times over the years we have flown planes over that nation, every time he had shot at us. 0 TIMES had anyone recorded being hit.

Saddam and his nation were no threat to us, evil? Yes, a threat? No. As a matter of fact Saddams version of Islam was at odds with Bin Laden and his, in essence his existence was a negative for those terrorists. Bin Laden actually went on record saying he would help if someone ever wanted to go to war with Saddam.

Other than this the truth is its not up to us to nation build. Look what happened in Iran, in Cuba, in every nation weve done this. Its been a bad idea every time and unconstitutional as well.

Now I understand that we messed up, but guess what? We fixed it enough. We gave them governments, a military, and democracy. We gave them womens rights and things they never would have dreamed of. OUR JOB IS DONE. Its time to pack out bags and leave.

While were at it we should leave Korea, Japan, Germany, and every other nation we dont belong in as well. This way we save 1 trillion + every year, help our military in strength and availability in case we actually need them. And on top of this we get to see our loved ones.

My family members have fought in several wars, I am a man whom understand what its like to have a parent in the military, and I know what these families are going through. So we should keep any peace keepers in there. We should pull them ALL out, because there is no end to the positives for us, and no definitive negatives for them other than possible ones that may have happened in the first place no matter what.
 
Hell, I'm just wondering where FTS is. Someone needs to bring some hilarious anti-Obama wackiness.

Also, this Furyof5 guy is pretty damn smart.
 
Hell, I'm just wondering where FTS is. Someone needs to bring some hilarious anti-Obama wackiness.

Also, this Furyof5 guy is pretty damn smart.

I miss FTS, he was one of my favorite posters.

And thank you for the compliment, I study a lot of history and read a lot of books. And not all biased. I was actually really different a year ago, extremely pessimistic. But I have changed many of my views on matters.
 
Nope, I don't watch anything any president has to say. I figure if it's important enough regarding the military I'll see a policy letter about it or leadership will let us know.

So far the only important thing with us has been the name change of Operation Iraqi Freedom to Operation New Dawn.

The Afghanistan thing is old news as we're already deploying to there as opposed to Iraq. So yeah, just one thing and it's completely minor even though we've seen three or four policy letters regarding it in the last two weeks. But that may just be because I'm at a headquarters base, who knows.
 
Fury, I see where you're coming from, and while I do agree that Iraq should not have happened, Liger is right in the "you break it, you buy it". Iraq should not have happened, but the Afghan war WAS justified. As someone who was involved in the Afghan war, I can tell you that we knew exactly why we were there. Hell, I met a lot of guys who had been in Iraq, they knew it was a pointless war. They are not the stupid blind killing machines that some people think. Those troops knew damn well why they were there, and that it wasn't right. But they stood by their Commander in Chief. We were in Afghanistan for payback. And that was damn sure the right thing to do, there is no argument you can come up with to say that going there to revenge what happened in the USA was not justified. That's why a lot of countries joined on. Iraq? Not as many. Hell, even Canada didn't go to Iraq, and we ALWAYS go to war with the US. While I may not be a fan of everything Obama says and does, I like this move, and actually he CAN claim victory. Why? because it wasn't him saying HE did it, but rather saying WE did it. We as in a nation.
 
As a man who has spent about two years of my life total in Afgahnistan, I agree with the above that we are entirely justified in being there. Iraq is definately a "broke it, bought it" scenario, but people need to stop being ingorant and lumping them both together. Afgahnistan is a WAR with the fuckheads responsible for over 2 thousand inncoent American people dying.

Stop lumping it in with George Bush's personal vandettas.
 
I don't like the Afghan war and don't think we should still be there, but at first it made sense. Iraq, never. Not once have I seen why we were there.
 
Why shouldnt we still be there? The Taliban still runs shit, its tough to tell me, someone who WAS there at this time last year that we shouldnt still be there.

We need to cripple that organization, and I am glad we kill them. Fuck those fucking scumbags. Yes, I said that.
 
Because we should have done that years ago. I have an issue believing we couldn't have crushed those guys in nearly 9 years already. It's the same as Iraq: this whole nation building thing means jack if we hold them up forever.
 
Because we should have done that years ago. I have an issue believing we couldn't have crushed those guys in nearly 9 years already. It's the same as Iraq: this whole nation building thing means jack if we hold them up forever.

No, unless you're actually there, you can't begin to imagine how incredibly tough it is to take them out. I knew from the start that it would take up to 10 years, maybe more. This is a well trained, well equipped group (should be, were trained by American forces and equipped by them years ago) So it really is a lot tougher then any civilian thinks it is.
 
Which is part of my problem with it. At what point is this no longer about Bin Laden or terrorism and is it about....something else?
 
Afghan war has ALWAYS been about terrorism, and now there is the side mission of helping those people who have been effected by it as well. Iraq was about Oil, and the Bush/Saddam rivalry that has been on since the 90's.
 

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