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Pick Your Poison: Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair

Pick Your Poison: Hogan or Flair

  • Hulk Hogan

  • Ric Flair


Results are only viewable after voting.
Hogan basically invented wrestling as we know it today way before the Monday night wars.

How can you possibly say Hogan invented wrestling as we know it today? Flair is a way better wrestler than Hogan ever was in his career.

Flair just sort of hung around because of his mike skills

Ridiculous. Flair was in the business because he had it all. The mic skills, wrestling ability and charisma, as well as 36 years of selling matches.

Flair was in the horseman but they sucked there was never a more boring stable than them.

I really really wouldn't go as far as to say they sucked, there were pretty popular. As well as the fact they are (some sources ) say there are part responsible for D-X.

Hulk Hogan revolutionised wrestling twice: first with Hulkamania then with the nWo.

I wouldn't call gimmicks revolutionising wrestling.

Ric flair never even changed his ring attire.

Despite the different robes he wore every week (pretty much)

I never liked Ric Flair- not then not now

I guess that would have to be yor opinion then, althought I must say it is quite differnt from many peoples.

Flair only has sympathy now because of his recent match at wrestlemania.

He has sympathy now because he retired and he was such a HUGE legend. Sympathy, however is much different than his consistent popularity. Although admittedly down in later years of his career.

If it weren't for Hogan wrestling wouldn't be big now and nobody would have heard of flair so to answer the question Hulk Hogan will always rule!

You can't say that no one would know who ric is because Ric was in the wrestling business before Hogan....... so plenty of people prefer ric more than Hogan. Want proof? Look at the poll, and I am sure, now that Ric's career is at an end, Ric would have way more votes than he already does.
 
Flair = The better wrestler, most loyal to the business.

Hogan = The biggest draw ever, the most famous ever, the money maker, the guy who had the BIGGEST part in wrestling's golden years, the guy who literally carried wrestling on his back through nearly 2 decades.

I respect Flair as much as anyone and now as an older fan, I have come to appreciate Flair more than Hogan. However, if it wasn't for Hogan, I wouldn't even be a wrestling fan. I would guess maybe 60% of fans over the age of 15 wouldn't have followed wrestling if not for Hogan. That would mean we wouldn't have had wrestling how it is today and Vince wouldn't have been rich enough to buy WCW, meaning the industry would have been in a better position :(

Personally, my choice is split...
Now I prefer Flair, for the previous 27 years, I preferred Hogan.

PS, anyone who says Hogan can't wrestle obviously know jack about wrestling. In the WWF/WCW he did only wrestle shorter matches, but that was at a request of the promotions. In his times in Japan, Hogan would regularly wrestle matches that were 40+ mins. He would switch his style of wrestling to accommodate the Japanese style, going technical and even throwing dropkicks etc!

Both Flair and Hogan are huge successes and neither of them deserves to be slated by a bunch of web geeks who would never have the balls to step into a ring.
 
While it may seem uncharacteristic of me, I'm not going to take the time and go through and address everything that's been said since my last post, quote by quote. I will address a few things.

1) It was widely established long ago, by many workers, that Ric Flair actively worked to keep them down. Now, whether or not it's true, I cannot say, but there were large number of wrestlers who have complained about it.

2) Ric Flair was never close to the draw that Hogan was, and when put on the same playing field, twice, Flair flopped where Hogan shined.

3) When Hulk Hogan went to WCW, overall revenue increased, and net loss dropped. I don't have the facts here with me now, but they're in The Death of WCW.

Not too mention that whole nWo thing.

4) For everyone who keeps saying that Flair was the greatest wrestler, please explain to me how.

He wasn't the biggest draw ever, in fact, wasn't even in the Top 5 (Hogan, Austin, Rock, Bruno, Andre were all easily bigger draws).

He wasn't the greatest technical wrestler ever (Hart, Benoit, Billington, and many others).

He wasn't the most charismatic wrestler ever (Rock, Austin, Hogan, Warrior, Sting...all much more charismatic)

He wasn't best on the mic ever (Rock takes that without a second thought)

He wasn't the best all-around wrestler (Steamboat, Savage)



So, what exactly makes Ric Flair the greatest of all time?

5) Someone explain to me how Ric Flair was such a great in-ring worker. Try to explain why his cartoonish spots, poor limb psychology, and poor selling is considered to be good wrestling.
 
It was widely established long ago, by many workers, that Ric Flair actively worked to keep them down. Now, whether or not it's true, I cannot say, but there were large number of wrestlers who have complained about it.
I'm genuinely interested to know who these 'many workers' are, since there's only a few I'm aware of.

Ric Flair was never close to the draw that Hogan was
I think everybody knows that. Who has said different?

When Hulk Hogan went to WCW, overall revenue increased, and net loss dropped. I don't have the facts here with me now, but they're in The Death of WCW.
I'd like to see that facts when you have them with you.

poor limb psychology, and poor selling is considered to be good wrestling.
Poor limb psychology? Poor selling? How about you actually explain how you came to this conclusion, instead of telling me to go watch a DVD?
 
This is a fun debate. The pro-Flair posts are really grasping for straws to make their case. I think it's a no brainer that WCW's revenue skyrocketed after Hogan arrived, more specifically after he turned heel at Bash at the Beach 1996. He reinvented himself and became the baddest bad guy.

Go out on the street and ask ten random people who Ric Flair is, then ask those same people who Hulk Hogan is. Let me know.
 
Great point. Ask the average person on the street the following questions, and the most likely answer will be these:

What is wrestling? A fake sport that is big on tv, and only rednecks watch it (I didn't make this answer up. I actually asked random people who came into my work the other day)

Who is the most famous 'wrestler' of all time? 90% of people asked answered Hulk Hogan (mainly due to his media attention and VH1 show) 5% answered The Rock (can you say movie star!?!) the other 5% was dominated by answers of Ric Flair, Andre the Giant, and one guy in his late 30's actually answered Vince McMahon.

On the subject of what they have done for the business as a whole. IMHO the following applies:

Hulk Hogan - Hulk broke into the business around the same time as Flair. It was his size and his skills on the mic that made him popular even before Vince got him. It was when Vince was getting ready to take his revolutionary ideas for wrestling into the mainstream and take WWWF to WWF and make it worldwide, he hired (or made a partnership if you will) Hogan and the rest is what we know today. There is not a person in the business today, WWE, TNA, or any other wrestling entity that doesn't owe a tip of the hat to Hogan and to Vince for the ideas that they implimented in the 1980s with WWF. Hogan and his persona is the reason we have the business as it is today. Hogan as a wrestler, could be better, but as a persona, there is none and never will be one that can get over better.

Ric Flair - Now on the other hand, Flair is a true wrestler. He trained the hard way, he worked his way up the hard way. He wasn't handed the spotlight. If he was, the aforementioned points could very well be all said about him. But Flair worked in the smaller rings. It wasn't until Ted Turner that WcW came into being, and Flair being the dominant Wrestler in the place. Flair was WcW, before Sting, before the influx of WWF wrestlers, Luger, Macho, Hogan. I have been watching wrestling for 30+ years, and I can still remember turning on Mid-South Wrestling in 1978, on my 10 inch B&W tv in the bedroom and seeing the 'Nature Boy' and wondering who it was. Flair as a wrestler, none better, and they all should be kissing his butt for showing them all how to be a true wrestler.

So in conclusion, Legends, they both are. But you can't compare apples to oranges. Flair is the better Wrestling Legend, but Hogan is the better Persona Legend.

As for who did more for the business, I do believe they both can be credited with equal pursuits. Hogan did more for mainstreaming, Flair did more for the sport itself and it's training and inner-workings.

Me personally, As I love them both, mine is always gonna be Hogan

hoganundisp.jpg


OE
 
That must be why he was mega over in Japan as well, right?

Because, it's well known the Japanese wrestling fans are suckers for blonde hair, blue eyed, all-americans.

Yeah, they actually are. My sister is blonde and blue-eyed, and when we lived in Japan we couldn't walk two feet without someone coming up and asking if they could touch my sister's hair. Blonde hair is seen as good luck to the Japanese.

So, if you're gonna call someone out, make sure you know what you're talking about.
 
Great point. Ask the average person on the street the following questions, and the most likely answer will be these:

What is wrestling? A fake sport that is big on tv, and only rednecks watch it (I didn't make this answer up. I actually asked random people who came into my work the other day)

Who is the most famous 'wrestler' of all time? 90% of people asked answered Hulk Hogan (mainly due to his media attention and VH1 show) 5% answered The Rock (can you say movie star!?!) the other 5% was dominated by answers of Ric Flair, Andre the Giant, and one guy in his late 30's actually answered Vince McMahon.

On the subject of what they have done for the business as a whole. IMHO the following applies:

Hulk Hogan - Hulk broke into the business around the same time as Flair. It was his size and his skills on the mic that made him popular even before Vince got him. It was when Vince was getting ready to take his revolutionary ideas for wrestling into the mainstream and take WWWF to WWF and make it worldwide, he hired (or made a partnership if you will) Hogan and the rest is what we know today. There is not a person in the business today, WWE, TNA, or any other wrestling entity that doesn't owe a tip of the hat to Hogan and to Vince for the ideas that they implimented in the 1980s with WWF. Hogan and his persona is the reason we have the business as it is today. Hogan as a wrestler, could be better, but as a persona, there is none and never will be one that can get over better.

Ric Flair - Now on the other hand, Flair is a true wrestler. He trained the hard way, he worked his way up the hard way. He wasn't handed the spotlight. If he was, the aforementioned points could very well be all said about him. But Flair worked in the smaller rings. It wasn't until Ted Turner that WcW came into being, and Flair being the dominant Wrestler in the place. Flair was WcW, before Sting, before the influx of WWF wrestlers, Luger, Macho, Hogan. I have been watching wrestling for 30+ years, and I can still remember turning on Mid-South Wrestling in 1978, on my 10 inch B&W tv in the bedroom and seeing the 'Nature Boy' and wondering who it was. Flair as a wrestler, none better, and they all should be kissing his butt for showing them all how to be a true wrestler.

So in conclusion, Legends, they both are. But you can't compare apples to oranges. Flair is the better Wrestling Legend, but Hogan is the better Persona Legend.

As for who did more for the business, I do believe they both can be credited with equal pursuits. Hogan did more for mainstreaming, Flair did more for the sport itself and it's training and inner-workings.

Me personally, As I love them both, mine is always gonna be Hogan

hoganundisp.jpg


OE

I agree for the most part. I don't think Hogan was handed the spotlight. He grabbed it. He also had to bust his ass to reach the pinnacle in the WWF. He started out by getting his knee shattered by Hiro Matsuda, (don't know if I spelled that right), and came back for more. Then he got his ass beat many times by Andre the Giant back in '79-'80. He didn't just go through a session of Tough Enough then get a contract.

No doubt, both are legends. Now where's his farewell night and his watch from Vince inscripted "Thank you".
 
In Pro Wrestling(or sports entertainment as some call it) it's all about making money and Hogan made a lot more money than Flair. Hogan made more money than anybody in the business and put the business on the map in the mid 80s. I don't care that Flair can wrestle circles around Hogan. Hogan was a much bigger star than Flair was. When people think wrestling, they think Hulk Hogan. A lot of people who don't even watch wrestling(and never did) know Hulk Hogan, but I don't think too many non-fans know Ric Flair. I mean my parents who absolutely dread wrestling know Hulk Hogan, but not Ric Flair. Hogan all the way!
 
hogan cant really wrestle, the only thing that we should give him, is that he move wrestling to another level, he made popular wrestling around the world.

ric is one of the best in this bussiness, but fuck he was too old to continue.
 
hogan cant really wrestle, the only thing that we should give him, is that he move wrestling to another level, he made popular wrestling around the world.

ric is one of the best in this bussiness, but fuck he was too old to continue.

Because I just can't be arsed wasting my time on you, here is a copy of what I stated in my last post in this thread:

"PS, anyone who says Hogan can't wrestle obviously know jack about wrestling. In the WWF/WCW he did only wrestle shorter matches, but that was at a request of the promotions. In his times in Japan, Hogan would regularly wrestle matches that were 40+ mins. He would switch his style of wrestling to accommodate the Japanese style, going technical and even throwing dropkicks etc!"

You should really research before you post...
 
FLAIR is the better man. It was Flair that HBK idelised and wanted to be like same wit HHH. And over 10 yrs later we see Y2J wanting to be like HBK u get it.
So if there was no Flair there is no HBK,HHH or even Y2J.
Flair was having five star matches wit Steamboat,Funk,Harley Race ect.
He was having da best damn promos (for the 80s).


While Hogan was sqashing Piper,Bossman ect in about 10 mins.
Hogan made a bigger impact though. As much as i think Hogan was always a complete ass i would admit he was at the better company (WWF) I am a 32 yr old wrestling fan wit over 25 yrs of wrestling exprience. So i would know what im talking about.
Its like comparing Edge and Cena all of the "marks" or "non smart fans" would say Cena is better where as Edge is one of the best wrestlers for this genaration and Cena not a good wrestler at all. Cena is only decent on da mic but thats about it.
So i gave my vote to Flair as he has put more people over in a yr dan Hogan did in his over 24 yr carrer
 
First off, people give Hogan WAY too much credit for the wrestling explosion in the 1980's - Vince McMahon was the brains behind that, not Hogan. Hogan would have missed out on the whole thing if Verne Gagne hadn't gotten greedy and demanded a cut of Hogan's increased pay when he became champ (how many Hogan fans know the Hulkster rose to fame in the AWA and was set to beat Nick Bockwinkle for that company's championship before Vince hired him ?)

Vince had novel marketing ideas (at least to wrestling) and Hogan no doubt was a big part of the show. Of course, for most of his time as champ Hogan only wrestled no more than 6 times per month and almost never on TV while guys like Piper, Savage, etc carried the house shows and TV programs. Hogan was the public face of WWE's expansion but he was not the creative force behind it, McMahon was. McMahon excelled at taking average wrestlers and making them into TV stars through marketing. Hogan had boat loads of charisma and delivered good matches on the rare ocassion someone really good opposed him but VINCE McMAHON made WWE wrestling an international company.

Flair set the standard for professional wrestlers today. No one wants to look like Hogan or imitate anything he did on the mic or in the ring. The top stars today as had been mentioned numerous times have patterned themselves after Flair. That's why so many pay him glowing tribute. No Flair, then there's no HBK, HHH, Jericho, Rock, etc.

The fact that Hogan is not personally popular does have something to do with the lack of respect he gets from his peers. Still, Flair is revered because his combination of charisma, athletic ability, and showmanship set the standard by which everyone today is measured. With that in mind Flair had the bigger impact because 25 years later top guys are still emulating him. Hogan made money, but Vince McMahon made WWE an international phenom.

Finally, the assertion that Hogan wrestled shorter, less athletic matches only because that is what promoters in the US wanted is false. Hogan was protected by Vince in the 80's and not asked to wrestled better opponents so that he would not be shown up. Hogan could deliver a better than average match in his heyday, but really, other than his matches against Savage name one Hogan match that even comes close to 4 stars ? The onlytime in his career he actuallyhad a good match with someone less talented was against Ultimate Warrior. Hogan did wrestled better in Japan but DID NOT have 40 minute wrestling classics there. Hogan did not have enough stamina or ability for more than 20 minutes, even in Japan, where he relied more on actual wrestling because the japanese fans are not as into the showmanship aspects as US fans are (he posing, dance routines, etc).

Flair's impact on today's wrestling is far greater than Hogan's. It's that simple
 
First off, people give Hogan WAY too much credit for the wrestling explosion in the 1980's - Vince McMahon was the brains behind that, not Hogan.

Hogan deserves all the credit he gets. Yes, McMahon was the brains behind it, but Hogan was the driving force. Without that driving force leading the company, the boom period in the 80's wouldn't have been as big as it was.

McMahon excelled at taking average wrestlers and making them into TV stars through marketing. Hogan had boat loads of charisma and delivered good matches on the rare ocassion someone really good opposed him but VINCE McMAHON made WWE wrestling an international company.

Once again, it was BOTH Hogan and McMahon that made the WWE so successful.

Flair set the standard for professional wrestlers today.

By being an illogical spotty wrestler who wrestled the exact same match for 30 years, while selling atrociously, constantly performing ridiculous comedy spots which detract realism from matches, lacking ring psychology and storytelling...

Yeah, what a high standard. :rolleyes:

No one wants to look like Hogan or imitate anything he did on the mic or in the ring. The top stars today as had been mentioned numerous times have patterned themselves after Flair. That's why so many pay him glowing tribute. No Flair, then there's no HBK, HHH, Jericho, Rock, etc.

No Hogan, no WWE and pro wrestling being as big as it is today. It's that simple.

The fact that Hogan is not personally popular does have something to do with the lack of respect he gets from his peers. Still, Flair is revered because his combination of charisma, athletic ability, and showmanship set the standard by which everyone today is measured.

The reason Flair is revered and respected as much as he is, is because he's constantly been a part of the WWE for the past 7 years. If it wasn't for WWE over-glorifiying Flair's career for the past 7 years, he wouldn't be anywhere near as revered as he is now. To deny this is complete ignorance.

For most of the 90's Flair had been a washed up nobody, who the majority of wrestling fans didn't even care about anymore. While Hogan, who was in the same company as Flair, carried pro wrestling through its next boom period. Then, Flair returns to WWE to join his pals HHH and HBK, and the WWE's revisionism of Flair's career begins. Flair having close friends in high places (HHH and HBK) has certainly helped him look good in the eyes of wrestlers, and fans.

Whenever Flair was in the same company as Hogan, Hogan ALWAYS overshadowed, and drew better than Flair. Why? Because he was better. That's just common sense.

With that in mind Flair had the bigger impact because 25 years later top guys are still emulating him. Hogan made money, but Vince McMahon made WWE an international phenom.

Hogan was the biggest draw ever, and a way bigger draw than Flair ever was. Hogan popularized this business to a degree that Flair doesn't even come close to. Without Hogan, no one would even know who Flair is.

Finally, the assertion that Hogan wrestled shorter, less athletic matches only because that is what promoters in the US wanted is false. Hogan was protected by Vince in the 80's and not asked to wrestled better opponents so that he would not be shown up. Hogan could deliver a better than average match in his heyday, but really, other than his matches against Savage name one Hogan match that even comes close to 4 stars ? The onlytime in his career he actuallyhad a good match with someone less talented was against Ultimate Warrior.

Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Warrior and Hogan/Rock are better than ANY, and I repeat ANY Flair match. When it comes to storytelling, workrate, ring psychology and working the crowd, Hogan is MILES ahead of Flair.

Hogan did not have enough stamina or ability for more than 20 minutes,

Stamina does not make a good professional wrestler.

Flair's impact on today's wrestling is far greater than Hogan's. It's that simple

:lmao:

^That is all I have to say about that last comment.
 
By being an illogical spotty wrestler who wrestled the exact same match for 30 years, while selling atrociously, constantly performing ridiculous comedy spots which detract realism from matches, lacking ring psychology and storytelling...
Run me through a Flair/Steamboat match, and tell me where these illogical spots, atrocious selling, lacking ring psychology and storytelling are.

Someone has yet to explain those things to me.

Hogan was the biggest draw ever, and a way bigger draw than Flair ever was. Hogan popularized this business to a degree that Flair doesn't even come close to. Without Hogan, no one would even know who Flair is.
There's no denying that Hogan's the biggest draw ever.

But when you say nobody would know who Flair is without Hogan, I'm starting to wonder what the hell you're talking about. How did Hogan's rise in popularity help the NWA and Ric Flair's popularity? Hell, I've yet still to be shown what Hogan did for WCW for the first two years he was there before his heel turn. Because PPV buys didn't increase so much after his first few months with the company.

Flair is the guy who influenced legions of wrestlers today to actually wrestle. How many people say they became a wrestler because of Hogan compared to those who cite Flair as their prime influence?

And as popular as Hogan is, Flair will always have the distinction of headlining the biggest drawing wrestling event in the history of the business.

Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Warrior and Hogan/Rock are better than ANY, and I repeat ANY Flair match. When it comes to storytelling, workrate, ring psychology and working the crowd, Hogan is MILES ahead of Flair.
There's plenty of Flair matches I'd take over them.
 
WICKEPEDIA:
"When competing in Japan, Hogan used a vastly different repertoire of wrestling moves, relying on more technical, traditional wrestling holds and maneuvers as opposed to the power-based, brawling style U.S. fans became accustomed to seeing from him. He also periodically left his feet while performing moves, like armbar takedowns and the enzuigiri. Another difference is that Hogan used a running forearm lariat (called the "Axe Bomber") as his finisher in Japan, as opposed to the running leg drop that has been his traditional finisher in America."
But Hogan can't wrestle right ?!?

PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIuEcao2cCM&feature=related
PART 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXg-P7Vw2c0&feature=related
PART 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV039F5l92A
PART 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOSj8iYMK_Y&feature=related

Count up the minutes, last I checked it comes to a lot more than 20 minutes.
 
Hell, I've yet still to be shown what Hogan did for WCW for the first two years he was there before his heel turn. Because PPV buys didn't increase so much after his first few months with the company.
I told you I would get back to you, and it's been a while, but I'm here.

To answer this, let me direct you to a filing of Turner media with the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission).

Turner said:
Other Segment revenues remained constant at $182 million. Increased Braves home game and broadcasting revenue in 1993 offset the non-recurring effects of $12 million in Major League Baseball expansion fees received in 1992, as well as a decline in WCW revenue.
http://www.secinfo.com/dsVsf.bXs.htm

This shows that the year 1993 lost money when compared to 1992.

Here's the only thing I could find on 1994:

Turner said:
Revenue decreased $18 million, or 10%, to $164 million, primarily as a result of reduced revenue for the Atlanta Braves due to the Baseball Strike. Braves operating profit decreased $23 million. Of this amount, $14 million related to the Baseball Strike and the remainder was primarily due
to reduced pre-strike broadcast income. The Braves' results and a $13 million
increase in information technology and other infrastructure spending to support the growth of the Company primarily accounted for the Other Segment's $38 million increase in operating losses, to $71 million overall.
http://www.secinfo.com/dsVsf.aXc.htm

Which is basically saying that the Braves were the only thing that lost the company money in 1994.

However, I now refer you to "The Death of WCW" book. Hogan debuted for WCW July 17th at Bash at the Beach. Hogan beat Flair and, in the process, sold "out the Orlando Arena and (did) a colossal 1.02 buy rate for the company, one of its largest ever." From there, WCW did very decent buyrates, with the exception of Starrcade with Brutus Beefcake. WCW did a .53 buyrate for Fall Brawl (an increase from the .46 the year before), and did a .97 at Halloween Havoc (an increase from the .50 the year before). Even with Brutus in the main-event at Starrcade, the show did a .60 (an increase from the .55 the year before).

So, with the obvious increases in PPV revenue due to increased PPV buys, it stands to reason that the second half of the year made a lot more money than the first half. I'm not going to give you the buy rates for PPVs in the first half of the year, but you can look them up yourself here. Not one of the PPVs in the first half, did as well as the worst in the second half.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wcw/wcwppvbr.htm

Turner said:
Revenue increased $43 million, or 26%, to $207 million due primarily to increased revenues from the Braves and WCW... WCW revenue increased $15 million due primarily to increased television syndication from pay-per-view events as well as home video sales and licensing and merchandising activities. Operating losses for the segment increased $6 million, to $77 million, as improved operations at the Braves and WCW were offset by increased information technology and other infrastructure spending in line with corporate growth.
http://sec.edgar-online.com/1996/03/21/00/0000950144-96-001095/Section9.asp

That shows that WCW revenue increased $15 million dollars from 1994 to 1995.
Poor limb psychology? Poor selling? How about you actually explain how you came to this conclusion, instead of telling me to go watch a DVD?
Allow me to let Ole Anderson, a member of the 4 Horsemen to explain his stance on Ric Flair. This comes from the Torch.

Ole Anderson said:
-- Ole Anderson rejected World Wrestling Entertainment's invitation to take part in the Ric Flair tribute on Monday's Raw. In an interview with PWTorch.com, Anderson had choice words for Ric Flair by stating "He ended up having the same match every night..." Anderson said. "He had a lot of potential to begin with, but he's never had anything different than the same damn match every night... The point is he still doesn't have any idea how to have a match work. So they gave him credit for the last match here in Orlando. Wonderful. I hope it is. It'll be the same as it always was. Tell the match the other night was different than any other match he's ever had. He always does the same damn dumb things."

Also, if you look around long enough, you can find Bret Hart's scathing review of Ric Flair as well. And these are guys who worked with Flair.

Yeah, they actually are. My sister is blonde and blue-eyed, and when we lived in Japan we couldn't walk two feet without someone coming up and asking if they could touch my sister's hair. Blonde hair is seen as good luck to the Japanese.

So, if you're gonna call someone out, make sure you know what you're talking about.
Well, while the anecdotal evidence presented by someone with a grand total of 6 posts is tempting to go with, I'm afraid I'm going to need a little more.

Oh, and if you care to explain why Japanese fans love All-American wrestlers, I'd love to hear it.


Matt Moses, I hope that satisfies your desire to be shown how Hulk Hogan helped WCW. I didn't figure I needed to show you the gains made in 1996. This post took me much longer than I expected, but hopefully, someone will learn something.

Also, to Notorious Free, with your comment about wrestlers knowing more than a gym teacher, or whatever, I urge you to read by Ole Anderson's and Bret Hart's review of Flair. Because they actually worked with Flair, unlike you, who merely insults my views because of my occupation. Thanks.
 
I told you I would get back to you, and it's been a while, but I'm here.

To answer this, let me direct you to a filing of Turner media with the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission).

http://www.secinfo.com/dsVsf.bXs.htm

This shows that the year 1993 lost money when compared to 1992.

Here's the only thing I could find on 1994:

http://www.secinfo.com/dsVsf.aXc.htm

Which is basically saying that the Braves were the only thing that lost the company money in 1994.

However, I now refer you to "The Death of WCW" book. Hogan debuted for WCW July 17th at Bash at the Beach. Hogan beat Flair and, in the process, sold "out the Orlando Arena and (did) a colossal 1.02 buy rate for the company, one of its largest ever." From there, WCW did very decent buyrates, with the exception of Starrcade with Brutus Beefcake. WCW did a .53 buyrate for Fall Brawl (an increase from the .46 the year before), and did a .97 at Halloween Havoc (an increase from the .50 the year before). Even with Brutus in the main-event at Starrcade, the show did a .60 (an increase from the .55 the year before).

So, with the obvious increases in PPV revenue due to increased PPV buys, it stands to reason that the second half of the year made a lot more money than the first half. I'm not going to give you the buy rates for PPVs in the first half of the year, but you can look them up yourself here. Not one of the PPVs in the first half, did as well as the worst in the second half.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wcw/wcwppvbr.htm

http://sec.edgar-online.com/1996/03/21/00/0000950144-96-001095/Section9.asp

That shows that WCW revenue increased $15 million dollars from 1994 to 1995.
Allow me to let Ole Anderson, a member of the 4 Horsemen to explain his stance on Ric Flair. This comes from the Torch.



Also, if you look around long enough, you can find Bret Hart's scathing review of Ric Flair as well. And these are guys who worked with Flair.

Well, while the anecdotal evidence presented by someone with a grand total of 6 posts is tempting to go with, I'm afraid I'm going to need a little more.

Oh, and if you care to explain why Japanese fans love All-American wrestlers, I'd love to hear it.


Matt Moses, I hope that satisfies your desire to be shown how Hulk Hogan helped WCW. I didn't figure I needed to show you the gains made in 1996. This post took me much longer than I expected, but hopefully, someone will learn something.

Also, to Notorious Free, with your comment about wrestlers knowing more than a gym teacher, or whatever, I urge you to read by Ole Anderson's and Bret Hart's review of Flair. Because they actually worked with Flair, unlike you, who merely insults my views because of my occupation. Thanks.

Good work Slyfox. You've definitely done your homework. I don't really think we needed it to prove what Hulk Hogan did for WCW but apparently some people have short, or skewed memories. If you check out Eric Bischoffs book he breaks it down very nicely how WCW's revenues changed after Hogan arrived.
 
I told you I would get back to you, and it's been a while, but I'm here.

To answer this, let me direct you to a filing of Turner media with the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission).

http://www.secinfo.com/dsVsf.bXs.htm

This shows that the year 1993 lost money when compared to 1992.

Here's the only thing I could find on 1994:

http://www.secinfo.com/dsVsf.aXc.htm

Which is basically saying that the Braves were the only thing that lost the company money in 1994.

However, I now refer you to "The Death of WCW" book. Hogan debuted for WCW July 17th at Bash at the Beach. Hogan beat Flair and, in the process, sold "out the Orlando Arena and (did) a colossal 1.02 buy rate for the company, one of its largest ever." From there, WCW did very decent buyrates, with the exception of Starrcade with Brutus Beefcake. WCW did a .53 buyrate for Fall Brawl (an increase from the .46 the year before), and did a .97 at Halloween Havoc (an increase from the .50 the year before). Even with Brutus in the main-event at Starrcade, the show did a .60 (an increase from the .55 the year before).

So, with the obvious increases in PPV revenue due to increased PPV buys, it stands to reason that the second half of the year made a lot more money than the first half. I'm not going to give you the buy rates for PPVs in the first half of the year, but you can look them up yourself here. Not one of the PPVs in the first half, did as well as the worst in the second half.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wcw/wcwppvbr.htm

http://sec.edgar-online.com/1996/03/21/00/0000950144-96-001095/Section9.asp

That shows that WCW revenue increased $15 million dollars from 1994 to 1995.
Thanks Slyfox, I appreciate it. I was under the impression that Hogan did help WCW when he first arrived, but overall were still losing money up until the Monday Night Wars and his Heel turn. And while PPV buyrates increased, they started to drop again, moreso around late 1995/early 1996, especially in comparison to the WWF at the time.

Allow me to let Ole Anderson, a member of the 4 Horsemen to explain his stance on Ric Flair. This comes from the Torch.
Slyfox, you still haven't explained to me why his matches have "poor limb psychology & poor selling". Giving me a few quotes of two wrestlers who may be very respected in the wrestling world isn't going to change my mind. Why haven't any other people come forward who's worked with Flair and said the same thing?

Also, if you look around long enough, you can find Bret Hart's scathing review of Ric Flair as well. And these are guys who worked with Flair.
I vaguely recall reading it. I'll have to dig it up.

Matt Moses, I hope that satisfies your desire to be shown how Hulk Hogan helped WCW. I didn't figure I needed to show you the gains made in 1996. This post took me much longer than I expected, but hopefully, someone will learn something.
I knew he helped them in someway, just not to the point were they were making a profit. I'm sure I read somewhere that they didn't turn a profit until 1996. But hell, you've shown me wrong and provided your claims with sources, I'm not complaining.

Good work Slyfox. You've definitely done your homework. I don't really think we needed it to prove what Hulk Hogan did for WCW but apparently some people have short, or skewed memories. If you check out Eric Bischoffs book he breaks it down very nicely how WCW's revenues changed after Hogan arrived.
I haven't read Eric Bischoff's book yet. And you did absolutely nothing to 'prove' what Hogan did for WCW in his first year or so, Slyfox did.
 
This is a question that has been going on since both Bolden - oops ,Hogan and Flair were in there prime. Even though I hated watching Hogan since he used to get jumped by the Funks back in his Florida wrestling days ; its ,undenialble that from a marketing , endorsements ,and mainstreaming Hogan was the man. But you also have to look at the fact that Vince McMahon was the architect of all that. He is the one that took this thing from wrestling to entertainment , but , that's not the question. So this is how I see it casual fan ( story lines , lights ,flash ;etc) =Hogan . True school fan ( gr8 wrestling , original characters , dark arenas;)=Flair . Sounds like a hip hop vs rap debate.
 
And while PPV buyrates increased, they started to drop again, moreso around late 1995/early 1996, especially in comparison to the WWF at the time.
Merely ebb and flow in business.

Slyfox, you still haven't explained to me why his matches have "poor limb psychology & poor selling". Giving me a few quotes of two wrestlers who may be very respected in the wrestling world isn't going to change my mind. Why haven't any other people come forward who's worked with Flair and said the same thing?

I vaguely recall reading it. I'll have to dig it up.
It took me a while to find it again, but here is Bret Hart's commentary on Flair, which explains psychology and selling.

I’m sure that if wrestling fans will give some thought to what I’ve
written here, you’ll find it to be more accurate and far more interesting than
Ric Flair’s book.
I don’t know if I’m more infuriated or disappointed by the derogatory
things he wrote, not just about me, but about other hard working members of
the wrestling fraternity, like Randy Savage and Mick Foley. I wasn’t going
to comment because I didn’t want to promote Flair’s book for him, but as has
become usual in wrestling the truth is getting rewritten again and I’m one of
the few guys who is trying to preserve an accurate chronicle of the wrestling
of our era.
It bears mentioning that if I didn’t have some measure of respect for
Flair his comments wouldn’t have phased me one way or the other. Sadly, the
way he has jumped to erroneous conclusions and put them out there for the
public as the truth has eroded whatever respect I had for him. Everybody has a
right to their opinion, but in my view a valid opinion should be backed up by
facts.
Yes, I did make some unflattering comments about Flair and Hogan back
in the early 90’s. I then rethought what I’d said and in the interest of doing
business with them, for the greater good of the business, I made a sincere
effort to apologize to both of them, publicly and privately. They each shook
my hand and told me not to worry about it and that it wasn’t an issue, but when
I got to WCW I was never given any kind of a chance and whether either one
or both of them was behind it I’ll probably never know, other than hearsay.
Now, years later, Hogan and Flair have both spoken inaccurately about me and
have tried to debunk and minimize my contributions to a business that I was
born into and have devoted my life to with deep passion and dedication.
Wrestling wasn’t just a job for me, it was the only way of life I knew long before
either Hogan or Flair laced up a pair of boots and took their first wrestling
lesson to see what it was like.
Never, in all my life, have I ever been so infuriated by ridiculous
statements made about me. Perhaps they were purposely designed to get my
response and sell more books, who knows. Who cares?
Flair talks about how I could be the president of my own fan club. All
I can say is, he’s one to talk! Self promotion was an intricate key to any
wrestler making it in the business. He convinced a legion of fans that he
was the best in the business - and there’s nothing wrong with that. He even
convinced himself. But his peers, the guys who worked with him night after
night, know better. How could any fan know what kind of a worker Ric Flair
really is without actually working with him?
Flair says that I believed my own press and convinced myself that I’m
the best there is. When I boast about being the best there is, it is because
of three reasons. The first and most important is that I never injured any
wrestler in any way despite my physical style. This is something in which I
take a lot of pride and I don’t know of anyone, who worked a schedule on par
with mine for as long as I did, who can truthfully make that same claim. The
second reason is that in the fourteenyears I was with the WWF, often wrestling
three hundred times per year, I missed but one match - and that was due to a
canceled flight. Again, I don’t think there is anyone who worked that schedule
who can truthfully make that claim. Everyone on the road worked hard but I
was proud to be counted among the handful of guys with an exceptionally
dedicated work ethic. The third reason is that throughout my career I never once
refused to put over a fellow wrestler - except at Survivor Series ‘97. In a
conversation that I had with Shawn Michaels three weeks before Montreal, when I
was champion, I told him that despite our differences, I wanted him to know
that he was safe working with me in the ring and that I had no problem
whatsoever putting him over. Shawn’s exact words to me were, “I appreciate that,
but I want you to know that I’m not willing to do the same thing for you.” This
was just plain unprofessional. Putting him over would have condoned his
disrespect, not just for me but for the honor of old school ways. Vince told me
that I could leave any way I liked, not to mention the fact that I had
contractual creative control for my last thirty days. The idea for him to beat me in
Canada was solely conceived to ruin me as a commodity in my home country where
WCW had big plans for me. Not to mention that when Shawn Michaels mocked
fornicating with the Canadian flag in the middle of the ring it went beyond
being personal to me, my fans, and my country!
I remember Ric Flair and Bobby Heenan coming up to me in the
dressing room in Nashville on May 6, 1989. I was in the Hart Foundation at the
time and Flair told me he was honored to shake my hand. I had never seen him
work. Being on the WWF road schedule made it nearly impossible to catch any
wrestling matches on TV because we were almost always working or traveling when
wrestling was on. From what little I did see of the NWA my impression was that
their TV show at that time was poorly produced and made the wrestlers come
off as second rate. Despite that, I’d been lead to believe, like everyone
else, that Ric Flair was the best in the business. I always wondered, if he was
the best why wasn’t he in the big league WWF? His popularity at that time
was largely concentrated in the deep south. I appreciated his compliment and
hoped I might have the chance to work with this legend some day.
About a year later Flair was head booker at WCW and he made me an offer
to come work there for money good enough that I had to seriously consider it.
As it turned out, Flair was unable to back up his offer and the deal
fell through when he nervously reneged. I lost respect for him and his word and
smartly chose to stay put in the WWF instead.
Eventually, Flair showed up in the WWF with the WCW belt and I was
somewhat surprised when he shamelessly crapped all over the history of the
territory that made him by not giving them their belt back. To this day I don’t
know what would make him hurt his fellow wrestlers and their struggling company
like that. I admit I don’t know all the facts on this so I won’t comment
any further about it, and Ric should have done the same with me.
Flair was trumpeted into the WWF with great fan fare and at last, one
night in New Haven, I was thrilled to defend the IC belt against this great
legend in an unscheduled dark match that was taped for Coliseum video. I knew
more about ring psychology and real wrestling at the ripe age of nine than Ric
Flair knew in his entire lifetime yet out of respect I let him lead the match.
Ric suggested a finish that called for me to do a flying cross body where he
would subsequently catch me and stagger backwards with the two of us toppling
over the top rope only to be counted out for the finish. It was a simple but
risky move that I’d done countless times before with lesser wrestlers but at
the end of the match when I dove into Flair he stood too far from the ropes,
mistimed it , and he simply didn’t have the strength to catch me so we fell
down in an embarrassing heap. Ric suddenly came up with a new make shift finish
that, not surprisingly, benefited him and not me. It absolutely stunk but
these things sometimes tend to happen when two wrestlers work together for
the very first time. Although the match had been taped and can still be seen
today I wasn’t going to make any kind of a big deal about it, but back in
the dressing room I was annoyed to hear Flair painting out to everybody that
somehow I had messed up the finish, implying that I was still a young up and
comer. If you understand wrestling, you know that all I could do was dive
into his arms and the rest was up to him. He proved to me, right then, that he
was full of it and was no legend at all.
Ric was an old fox that took such liberties every time he thought he
could get away with it. You’ll find nary a wrestler that would describe me,
Savage or Foley as back stabbers or sneaky liberty takers, but with Flair you
better take a number!
I remember Flair worked with Randy Savage who, like me, was lead to
believe the same crap about how great Flair was when they had a Saturday
Night’s Main Event TV match in Hershey on September 1, 1992. He somehow
became WWF champion and Vince McMahon carefully constructed an elaborate storyline
for this very important match. I was standing right next to Vince watching
the match live on a backstage monitor when Vince blew his stack as he watched
Ric do absolutely nothing he told him to do. Ric has never been able to do
anything but his one routine match, which consists of cartoon high spots
borrowed from Jackie Fargo and midget wrestlers, along with an assortment of tired
old ripped off Buddy Rogers high spots. My dad always called Flair a
“routine man” - because he did the exact same routine every night, every where,
and was forever stuck with it. An angry Vince met Flair as he came through the
curtain and he furiously ordered both Flair and an exasperated Randy to march
right back out and redo the entire match the way he’d told them to do it!
Even then, as I remember it, Flair was still unable to impress Vince.
Personally, I would have been shamed with embarrassment to ever put the promotion,
myself, or my opponent through such a farce! I recall telling Randy that I
thought Flair was ‘thirty minutes of non stop non psychology’ and Randy
shook his head and laughed along with me at how true it was.
I can tell you first hand that Ric Flair was not a great worker at
all. Yes, he did hilarious interviews but, to my taste, I never thought a
world champion was supposed to be hilariously amusing. Granted, Flair was
entertaining to watch - and there’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, much like
Hogan, Flair’s magnetism and charisma distracted from and offset his limited
ability in the ring. The single greatest contribution that Flair ever gave to
pro wrestling was the wooo from his silly chops. First off, chops hurt - and in
my opinion they look like crap.
For Flair to demean Randy Savage and Mick Foley is outrageous! In my
opinion, as someone who has worked with all three of them (and everybody else
from that era too) Ric Flair couldn't even lace up Randy and Mick’s boots!
They were both hard workers and exciting innovators who at least made every
possible effort to put on some kind of a different show from night to night.
Either one of them could call a great match any time they wanted. So what if
Randy wanted to put in an even greater effort by designing a great match in
excessive detail? That is a quality, not a flaw, and Flair is too lost in time
to grasp it. Sure Flair could call a match, the exact same one over and over,
talking and telegraphing every move! I can also say that Ric was a blatant
expose every time he cut himself. “Hey look, Ric Flair’s blading! ...”
Some great pro! If old time shooters like Ed Strangler Lewis or Frank Gotch
were to look down from the heavens I’m sure they’d be more impressed with Randy
and Mick’s realism and psychology than Flair’s phony chops and upside-down
flips into the corner, where amazingly he somehow landed right on his feet! -
only to jog down to the next corner - where he climbed right up and - even
more amazingly - took ten or fifteen seconds to maneuver his opponent’s hands
carefully onto his chest so he could take a phony beal back into the ring!
If done on rare occasions, such silly routines, because they are highly
amusing and entertaining, often go undetected for how ridiculously phony they are.
But this pathetic routine was performed every time Flair went blank, and let
me tell you, he went blank all the time!
As for Ric’s criticism of how my comeback was repetitive, all I can
say is that I felt that, logically speaking, why wouldn’t I break into my
patented arsenal of best moves before going into my finish? I did, in fact, change
it up from time to time, but I also recognized that most fans completely
understood what I was doing. It made as much sense as doing the same finishing
move every night, except my finish was a series of moves. The fact that Ric
took exception to this is a simple example of his inability to fully understand ri
ng psychology.
The day after I wrestled Davey at Wembley at Summerslam ‘92 in front
of 86,000 fans I flew to Baltimore. They were playing a tape of the show in
the hotel bar and I was watching a tape in my room when there was a knock at my
door and low and behold both Randy and Flair stood there beaming. They each
shook my hand and I remember Flair excitedly grinning and praising me saying,
“Brother, that was the greatest match I’ve ever seen. The greatest!”
For Ric Flair to say that I wasn’t a draw is just plain ridiculous. I’m
very sure that I sold enough tickets throughout my career. Who is he kidding?
Everyone knows that most of the time WCW wrestlers worked in front of empty
chairs in empty arenas. All one has to do is watch Flair’s DVD to see the
empty seats and the exact same match with every opponent, whatever their shape or
size. After Vince made him redo his SNME match his days were numbered in
the WWF because he clearly wasn’t what he was cracked up to be. Six weeks
later Flair was told to lose the belt to me in Saskatoon on October 12, 1992. As
I understood it, Flair declined putting me over on TV, despite the fact
that he himself had just told me that Wembley was the best match he’d ever
seen ! Let alone that I was the biggest draw the WWF had in Europe and all the
foreign markets, consistently main eventing in front of, not sold out
buildings, but entirely sold out tours! And I had a very strong following in
North America too. The WWF was reeling from sex and steroid scandals at that
time and I was seen as a safe bet to carry the belt, in large part, because I
worked hard and I kept my nose clean. When I won the title in Saskatoon that
night I came back to the dressing room with a dislocated finger and a rolled
ankle, both as a result of Ric failing to tell me what he was doing in the
ring. (I generally never got hurt.)
I worked with Flair every night for a while after that and I finally
went to Vince totally exasperated and told him that I thought that Ric was
intentionally sabotaging my matches every night since I’d won the belt. To be
honest, Ric always worked hard but nothing he did in the ring ever made sense.
Just when he’d masterfully worked my leg he’d suddenly grab a headlock and
call a long series of running high spots! Just when we had the crowd ready to
burst he’d call some lame spot that would kill all the heat we’d built up and I
forever found myself shaking my head at how we’d have to build it up all over
again. Most of what Ric called made him look like a world beater and in some
matches I’d blast him with fifteen or twenty terrific looking working punches
only to see him never go down but then finally wobble and take one of his
pathetic and comedic face bumps. Sometimes he’d do his upside-down flip into
the corner two or three times in a row and in one match, only days after I won
the title, he called for a small package out of a figure four and pinned
himself without even giving me a comeback! When I finally went to Vince he scolded
me and told me that I was his champion and from here on in to take charge of
my matches - and that Flair wasn’t as good as he was cracked up to be! I was
trying to respect Ric at the time but since he was heading back to WCW I
had no choice but to take control. Ric apologized to me saying he was having
problems at home but today he’s telling some bullshit story about Charles
Barkley and the Ultimate Warrior.
A few months later, when I found out I’d be having a one hour marathon
match at the Boston Garden with Ric, I came up with a brilliant storyline
that I ran by Vince, who loved it. When I ran it by Flair in the dressing room
the night of the show he immediately interrupted me and began telling me what
we were going to do instead. I finally had to cut him off and sadly dress him
down in front of several wrestlers saying, “Ric, I’m the champion and this is
how it’s going to go.” He dropped his jaw, turned red, and took his seat,
saying, “You’re the champ.” He never, ever got over it either. Scott Hall was
there and often told this story to other wrestlers for years. Sadly, old Ric
still managed to mess up the timing for every fall, in what I could only see
as intentional. At the time I was furious to read in Dave Meltzer’s
Wrestling Observer Newsletter how Ric Flair carried me for the full sixty minutes!
Ric Flair never carried me, ever! Years later I spoke with Meltzer about
it and we cleared the air when after hearing my perspective on it he agreed
that he didn’t have all the facts and told me that he’d never seen the Boson
match, which was reported to him by a fan who was there. If anything, Flair was
not only notorious for sucking up to the office but generally took liberties
with his opponents who had been convinced that he was going to make them. If
you watch Flair’s matches you’ll see that he usually made himself at the
expense of his opponents , something I was famous for not doing.
Enough about this so called great worker. He was a three dressed up as
a nine who left his opponents second guessing their own abilities after
working with him.
For shame that Ric Flair should take pot shots at Terry Funk, Mick
Foley, Savage, me or anyone else. But none of this is what infuriates me the
most.
For Flair to denounce me for my role in the infamous Survivor Series
in Montreal, all I can say is that he wasn’t there and he ignores much of
the truth when it comes to the facts. The most complete and accurate written
account of the whole Montreal debacle, for anyone who is interested, is
available at brethart.com - written by Dave Meltzer. I stand proud with my head
held high for the way I handled myself and the position I took for the business
and my fellow wrestlers that fateful day. I find solace in remembering two
truly great champions, Harley Race and Dory Funk, who did call me up to tell
me they were proud of me for how I handled myself in Montreal. That’s all the
endorsement I’ll ever need! That’s all I need to say about it.
Far above and beyond anything else Flair said, it is his comment about
how I exploited my loving brother Owen’s death that is unforgivable.
Frankly, this is such a low class blow that it is even beneath him! If he wants to
take pot shots at me as a wrestler that’s bad enough, but it is reprehensible
that he would judge me for the way I handled myself in the aftermath of my
brother’s death. All I can say is that I stood by Owen’s widow through a
fierce and bitter time, never once failing her or their children. I did what I
think Owen would have wanted me to do and I answer to Owen’s memory not to
Ric Flair. For him to say that I fueled the law suit because of Montreal
is ridiculous and disgusting.
I think it’s fair to say one had to walk in my shoes to fully comprehend the
situation and when I put my story into words in a book about wrestling that
is worth reading only then can anyone appreciate all that I lost and all
that I gave during such a difficult time. For this asshole to blindly poke me
in the eye would be like me declaring that Flair showed great cowardice when
he let Bobby Shane die in that tragic plane crash back in ‘75 !
Foley , Savage and Bret Hart have been doing just fine outside of the
world of wrestling. What else has Ric Flair got? I’d like to punch Ric Flair
right in the nose - but I’d probably have to kick somebody in the ass to do
it! In the infamous words of Dick Cheney, go f**k yourself Ric and be glad
that someone like me doesn’t shove your head squarely up your ass someday.

Bret Hitman Hart
July 12, 2004, Calgary
www.brethart.com

That was pretty difficult to find. So, using that, you can decipher Flair's poor psychology and selling antics, and so on and so forth. I'd link you to it, but it got removed from Bret's page whenever the site was updated. If you like, I can provide the link that it USED to be at...because for some reason I still remember that.
 
Damn, if Bret Hart was here, I'd rep that man. I remember reading that a long time ago, but I had forgotten all about it. Bret Hart is amazing and pretty much calls out Ric Flair for what he is, and what I've always thought he was. The revisionist history statement is perfect, but unfortunately, that's the way it will always go down as long as the Kliqsters are running the WWE. Triple H will make sure that Ric will be known as the best ever, and Shawn as the second best ever, when in reality it's Hogan and Hart taht are far better then Flair and Michaels. (The Same Triple H that didn't want Flair to come to the WWF in 1998 because he was afraid he would take his future spot in the company).

Bret Hart is right on. The said thing for Flair is, as much as he likes to talk down about everyone else, especially a Mick Foley, Flair couldn't walk in Foleys' boots. Foley will be remembered by WWE fans more then Flair ever will be remembered by the WWE fans.
 
I haven't read Eric Bischoff's book yet. And you did absolutely nothing to 'prove' what Hogan did for WCW in his first year or so, Slyfox did.

I don't need to. Slyfox did an excellent job. This isn't a research paper where I need to cite my sources. I just pointed out Bischoff's book. Go check it out.
 
Hogan is, was, and always will be an image. Hogan's character and larger than life personna always got him over with the fans. Remember that hogan started out as a heel and didn't take off until he bacame a babyface. Hogan's in ring ability was always his downfall
Flair spent most of his career as a heel and still got over. Flair was a better technical wrestler and he wasn't afraid to push younger wrestlers. The list of wrestlers that can thank Flair for a career boost is endless, while hogan was always and only concerned about himself. I enjoyed flair's matches to the very end, while hogan should have left the business 10 years ago.
 
all these answeres posted wow aren't fans knowlegable of what goes on. Well I guess it's my turn but i'll keep it simple. Flair is the most succesful wrestler in the ring & hogan is the most successful wrestler out of the ring. damn that was easy. I didn't have to go into the 80's or who did what or anyrthing.
 

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