Overrated or Underrated - The Ultimate Warrior

[Slyfox696]

The man was from a wrestling standpoint terrible,

Well, it depends. I think he was rated about right, at least in the eyes of true fans.

I have two questions, and anyone can answer them.

1) What made Ultimate Warrior "terrible" from a "wrestling standpoint"? Can anyone actually explain to me what made Warrior a terrible wrestler? Because everyone says he's terrible, and no one can say why.

2) Can someone explain to me what a "true fan" is and where I can sign up to be one?

 

[Inferno30]

I would say he is correctly rated. Ultimate Warrior is a one of the biggest names in WWF histroy, so that right there makes it hard for him to be underrated. But I dont think he is overrated either. When i think of wrestling back in the early 90's, I think of Hulk Hogan, Sgt Slaughter, The Ultimate Warrior, Macho Man Randy Savage. Warrior was in the "Rock, Austin, HHH" category of the late 90's. I agree with Sly, his job was to entertain people and draw fans. He did that very well. I loved the Warrior as a kid and I wanted to watch him. I'm sure every other kid felt that way too. That right there qualifies him as a success.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I have two questions, and anyone can answer them.

1) What made Ultimate Warrior "terrible" from a "wrestling standpoint"? Can anyone actually explain to me what made Warrior a terrible wrestler? Because everyone says he's terrible, and no one can say why.

He's terrible in the same way Khali is terrible. Although I can't give you a definative answer because I too am not sure why both are so terrible. Both did/do there job. Warrior entertained people. Khali gets great monster heel heat. That's what they were employed for. Maybe it's the gassing out before he gets in the ring. But if anybody ran to the ring that fast they would be the same.

2) Can someone explain to me what a "true fan" is and where I can sign up to be one?

You can only like wrestlers that the majority of IWC fans adore, and you can't like anybody it's not cool to like.

 

[Ogerz]

I have two questions, and anyone can answer them.

1) What made Ultimate Warrior "terrible" from a "wrestling standpoint"? Can anyone actually explain to me what made Warrior a terrible wrestler? Because everyone says he's terrible, and no one can say why.

His move set. Don't get me wrong, I actually liked the warrior, but he was to plain jane with in ring moves. He seemed to do more moves when he portrayed himself as the Dingo Warrior in World Class Championship Wrestling. Maybe it's just me. Who knows.

2) Can someone explain to me what a "true fan" is and where I can sign up to be one?

My personal definition of a TRUE WRESTLING FAN is simple, Someone that will watch ALL walks of wrestling. Period.


Now, my personal opinion about the Warrior is this, I believe him to be more on the overrated side. HOWEVER, I would say that line lays pretty close to the rated where he should be. First let me say that this is my OPINION! Like I mentioned earlier, his move set was limited. He OOZED charisma and the entertainment value. Personally myself, I could not get enough of him talking to his hands.... He had alot of great matches too, BUT, I would not put him on a plateau with Hogan, Flair & Harley Race.

 

[Slyfox696]

His move set. Don't get me wrong, I actually liked the warrior, but he was to plain jane with in ring moves. He seemed to do more moves when he portrayed himself as the Dingo Warrior in World Class Championship Wrestling. Maybe it's just me. Who knows.

Moveset has nothing to do with being a good wrestler. See Steve Austin, circa 1998 and 1999 for proof or John Cena currently.

Being a good wrestler is about displaying good storytelling in the ring, and displaying good wrestling psychology. Two things Warrior did very well. Additionally, being a SUCCESSFUL pro wrestler is about making money and drawing fans. Warrior did both of those VERY well.


Ultimate Warrior is completely underrated.

 

[bambam]

Hey BamBam again, heres some title history on the ultimate warrior:

- WCWA Tag-Team Champion w/ Lance von Erich (11/17/86 - 12/01/86)
- WCWA Texas Heavyweight Champion (2/02/87 - 6/21/87)
- WWF Intercontinental Heavyweight Champion (8/29/88 - 4/02/89)
- WWF Intercontinental Heavyweight Champion(2) (8/28/89 - 4/01/90)
- WWF World Heavyweight Champion (4/01/90 - 1/19/91)
- WWS Champion (unknown howlong title reign was)

and awards:
- 1990 Match of the Year (Warrior vs. Hulk Hogan)
- 1991 Feud of the Year (Warrior vs. Undertaker)
- 1992 Comeback of the Year

My opinion: Warrior was totally overrated! Most matches were like 2 mins, he did have good title reigns, and good feuds, but not alot of good move sets, weak finisher (the big splash) and sorry but the feud with the Undertaker, Taker put him on his back and carried him, and most wrestlers that wrestled him just jobbed (HHH).

 

[Ogerz]

Moveset has nothing to do with being a good wrestler. See Steve Austin, circa 1998 and 1999 for proof or John Cena currently.

Being a good wrestler is about displaying good storytelling in the ring, and displaying good wrestling psychology. Two things Warrior did very well. Additionally, being a SUCCESSFUL pro wrestler is about making money and drawing fans. Warrior did both of those VERY well.


Ultimate Warrior is completely underrated.

You can't tell a very good story with a punch, kick, powerslam, splash and shaking ring ropes. Warrior did draw and make the WWE boatloads of money, but that doesn't mean he was the best in the buiness in his day.

No need to bring up Cena with me, I personally don't like him. I would actually have to put him in the catagory with the Warrior. Big draw, made lots of money for the WWE and that about it. Except, the Warrior was much more entertaining. Still loved him talking to his hands.....LOL That crap was funny as hell.

 

[Skillz]

You can't tell a very good story with a punch, kick, powerslam, splash and shaking ring ropes.

Yes you can. It's the WAY you do the moves that tells a good story. It's the timing of the moves, execution of the moves, match pacing, working the crowd, selling etc, that makes a wrestling match a good one. When Warrior was allowed to work longer matches against Hogan, Savage and Rude, he showed that he was good at doing this. The quantity of technical and high flying moves has very little to do with making a good wrestling match. I don't understand how so many wrestling fans don't get this.

 

[Ogerz]

Yes you can. It's the WAY you do the moves that tells a good story. It's the timing of the moves, execution of the moves, match pacing, working the crowd, selling etc, that makes a wrestling match a good one. When Warrior was allowed to work longer matches against Hogan, Savage and Rude, he showed that he was good at doing this. The quantity of technical and high flying moves has very little to do with making a good wrestling match. I don't understand how so many wrestling fans don't get this.

I never said that high flying moves was his downfall. Good ring presence is first and formost. Although the Warrior had a very good ring presence, he was not all that. Half the matches he was in, he was carried by the other person. Rick Rude & Macho Man made them matches worth watching. For the Warrior, he needed more POWER moves. Nothing technical, not high flying, POWER. Watching him was like playing Parappa The Rapper, Kick.......PUNCH.........SPLASH!

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Firstly I want to attempt to clarify for some why people say UW sucks. I totally agree that being a good pro wrestler does not require one to do spinning toe holds and german suplexes and flips. You need to tell a story, draw people in, and do the moves that are belivable to your character. So I dont mark down the Warrior for not having a wide array of moves, becuase I dont feel its necessary. But the moves he DID do, he botched on a fairly regular basis. When he would gorilla press people, he would drop them, very haphazardly a lot of the time. The reason he isnt very "skilled" in the ring per say, to me, is becuase he fucked up the moves he did, not becuase he didnt posses a wide array of moves. Same thing with Kahli. I think he is terrific for the job he is put there to do. But he has absolutely horrendous timing, and skill when performing the moves he does use.

With that said I feel the ultimate Warrior is greatly underrated. The reaosn for this is, when you ask most smarks who think they know everything they say the ultimate warrior SUCKS. Which is so utterly wrong and out of touch with what PRO WRESTLING is supposed to be, its ridiculous.

At the time the ultimate warrior was popular, cartoonish, far out characters were the norm, and what was liked by fans, and warrior was perfect for this. Im not sure how all the naysayers think that character should have been portrayed....was some crazy motherfucker with a painted face and tassles on his face supposed to be in the ring putting people into figure four leg locks? was he supposed to be giving promos like a regular happy go lucky dude?

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK NO!!!
Has anyone ever SEEN the Ultimate Warrior???? lol of COURSE he had to be fuckin insane, run to the ring, and knock the shit out of someone. Its the CHARACTER....Obviously it wasnt THAT shit, becuase the whole over the top, crazy jibberish talking, 30 second squashing, punching slamming clotheslining UW made millions of dollars for WWE, Went over Hogan cleanly, and could go pop for pop with hogan during their primes, which no one else can say.

As far as value as a great pro wrestler, UW is hugely underrated. Its just kind of the popular "smart fan" thing to say that he is shit, when its far from the truth. Just becuase the guy was a whack job in real life has no bearing whatsoever on how valuble he was as a pro wrestler. This isnt a "good person forum" its a wrestling forum. and UW is very underrated as a pro wrestler.

 

[Slyfox696]

Firstly I want to attempt to clarify for some why people say UW sucks. I totally agree that being a good pro wrestler does not require one to do spinning toe holds and german suplexes and flips. You need to tell a story, draw people in, and do the moves that are belivable to your character. So I dont mark down the Warrior for not having a wide array of moves, becuase I dont feel its necessary. But the moves he DID do, he botched on a fairly regular basis. When he would gorilla press people, he would drop them, very haphazardly a lot of the time. The reason he isnt very "skilled" in the ring per say, to me, is becuase he fucked up the moves he did, not becuase he didnt posses a wide array of moves. Same thing with Kahli. I think he is terrific for the job he is put there to do. But he has absolutely horrendous timing, and skill when performing the moves he does use.

Someone's been watching the Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior DVD I thinks.

How did Warrior drop them haphazardly? I mean, how many ways can you drop a person from a Gorilla Press Slam?

With that said I feel the ultimate Warrior is greatly underrated. The reaosn for this is, when you ask most smarks who think they know everything they say the ultimate warrior SUCKS. Which is so utterly wrong and out of touch with what PRO WRESTLING is supposed to be, its ridiculous.

I agree completely.

At the time the ultimate warrior was popular, cartoonish, far out characters were the norm,

Still are. Big Daddy V? Boogeyman? King Booker? Hornswoggle? Cryme Tyme? Abyss? Judas Messias? Delirious?

and what was liked by fans, and warrior was perfect for this. Im not sure how all the naysayers think that character should have been portrayed....was some crazy motherfucker with a painted face and tassles on his face supposed to be in the ring putting people into figure four leg locks? was he supposed to be giving promos like a regular happy go lucky dude?

Precisely. Another great point.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK NO!!!
Has anyone ever SEEN the Ultimate Warrior???? lol of COURSE he had to be fuckin insane, run to the ring, and knock the shit out of someone. Its the CHARACTER....Obviously it wasnt THAT shit, becuase the whole over the top, crazy jibberish talking, 30 second squashing, punching slamming clotheslining UW made millions of dollars for WWE, Went over Hogan cleanly, and could go pop for pop with hogan during their primes, which no one else can say.

I'm glad someone else gets it.

As far as value as a great pro wrestler, UW is hugely underrated. Its just kind of the popular "smart fan" thing to say that he is shit, when its far from the truth. Just becuase the guy was a whack job in real life has no bearing whatsoever on how valuble he was as a pro wrestler. This isnt a "good person forum" its a wrestling forum. and UW is very underrated as a pro wrestler.

With the exception of the couple points I mentioned, I agree completely with your post.

When people understand the true goal of wrestling, they'll understand why Warrior was good.