Orton Isn't The #2 Guy... CM Punk Is.

[PunkNation26]

I didn't say that Beadle liking Punk meant he was number 2. What I meant was that Beadle isn't the kind of woman who roots for a clean cut douche wrestler just because he's hot. She likes Punk for what he does and says, and just happens to like his looks.

The point that I was trying to make was this: If Orton gets a bigger reaction than Punk it's because of the current demographic that attends WWE events. Orton is over with the Cena demographic. Punk is over with the Austin/Rock demographic. When WWE finally puts Punk in the 1 spot on Raw, the Women/Kids will slowly go away or atleast shift away and the Austin/Rock fans will become the majority again and then Punk will be more over than Orton.

The problem smarks have with Orton is his attitude and the way he's booked. He's also overrated in my opinion. He offers zero in terms of entertainment value as well. What has he done lately that makes you want to watch Smackdown?

Oh and Skip Bayless is the most annoying person on ESPN. Wait, it might be Nancy Grace. Either way both way worse than Beadle.

 

[Theo Mays]

I disagree. You're putting Orton on a pedestal. Punk has creative control, he's a big deal now. Orton isn't above him.

Me, putting Orton on a pedestal? Did you read the part where I said I don't like Orton? I'm going by what the WWE thinks and I think it is pretty clear Orton is the number two guy. And where do you get that Punk has creative control? We don't know if Punk has complete control of his character and the booking decisions. The WWE thinks of Orton as the number two guy and until Orton goes on some sort of tailspin and Punk dominates the Raw roster, Orton will be the number two guy.

 

[PunkNation26]

Lol, Orton's an asshole, and not the cool kind. He's the arrogant, obnoxious douchebag kind.

Punk will outdraw Orton when it's all said and done. Hell I'm not even sure Orton has ever had one of his shirts sell out at an event. I do know that Punk has. I know I'm buying both of Punk's shirts.

Yea I'm a Punk mark, and I'm proud of it. I had Austin when I was 12, and I got Punk at 24.

 

[Jeritron5000]

Which brings me to my answer, Orton is obviously still the #2 guy in the company as he is THE FACE OF SMACKDOWN. Cena is the FACE OF RAW. Which means Punk by default is still only the #3 guy.

I disagree and I don't think the "Face of RAW/SMACKDOWN" argument a lot of people are making has a whole lot of merit. This doesn't really make too much sense. Orton is the "Face of Smackdown" because he is currently the biggest star on Smackdown. Move Punk over to Friday nights...would he still be default #3? Punk is involved in the biggest storyline in the WWE. It overshadows the title picture. He's main evented the last 3 ppv's, sells more merch than Orton, gets bigger pops, and main events on a much more regular basis. There is no "#3" by default. There is simply no denying that, as of this writing, CM Punk is #2 behind Cena.

 

[lakersyr09]

I really don't think that orton is 2, or punk is 2, or sheamus is 2, that really doesn't matter who is number 2 because I feel wwe is going through a transition period again and is just trying to make new faces to match older heels or trying to create new feuds, but I think the reason people are saying punk is number 2 is best he is involved in a much bigger storyline right now then Orton, I mean come on orton is in a storyline with who, mark henry who has never won any major title, while punk is in a feud with hhh, nash, ace, etc so of course punk may seem to be number 2 because of his feud with an multi time champ, while orton is in a feud with an 15 year vetern/jobber who hasn't done anything in his career until like his feud with show/kane

 

[lord general positivity]

Is it a bit early to say if punk is the no 2 guy in the company. Yes he has a lot of momentum going his way at this point but lets see where he goes after this whole firing/outsiders/nwo#1115/comspiracy angle, if he still gets big pops (which i think he will) then you can start caling him the number 2 guy.

 

[#1HEEL]

I think we are placing too much emphasis on storylines when deciding who is the # 1 and 2 guys in the company... Storylines eb and flow, people get pushed and everyone has to win and lose at some point.

So Punk losing to HHH, and Randy losing to Henry means nothing.

Henry has won, because A. he deserves it, and b. smackdown needs credible main eventers. They dropped the ball in 2006 not giving Henry the belt against Mysterio. Plus it's all leading to a face run for Sheamus as champion.

Orton will fued with Cody etc and put them over. That's why he is the number 2 guy, because he puts people over, he is on the game covers, the magazines, the publications.

I love CM Punk and I want that guy to become a 1 or 2, but he isn't yet. It is the summer of punk, and I hope it remains the autumn, spring and winter of Punk too.

But a few wins, and an epic reaction in Chicago doesnt make you the number 2.

It takes time. Plus Orton's in the spotlight endlessly, of course he isn't always going to get a massive reaction. As for the whole "only women and children cheer him" really? Your going to pull the John Cena on him??

Orton's reactions aren't even mixed, they are even solid or awesome, never shit.

You realise that Orton's been a top star now for the best part of 8 years, thats an effort.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

I like both guys but I totally disagree with the OP.

If Punk stays at the top for longer than a few months, I MIGHT say that he's the #2 guy behind Orton but while Orton may not be as over now (because he's on Smackdown), overall, he is #2 behind Cena (in terms of active roster. I am not including Undertaker).

Orton has had MANY title runs and still two years younger than Punk. He's got the pedigree and physique that Vince likes.

WWE had so little confidence in Punk that they nearly let him walk away from WWE not too long ago. Doesn't sound like a guy who is the #2 guy by behind Superman does it?

Don't get me wrong, I like CM Punk, and I love his recent character but I want to wait and see if he can sustain this momentum for a prolonged period of time (like Orton) before I'd put him ahead of Orton.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Not quite. CM Punk IS the #2 guy, but just on Raw. Randy Orton is the #2 guy overall in the WWE. The top guy of the federation is usually the top face. That's obviously John Cena. He is exclusive to Raw and there is a second brand, Smackdown. Orton's role on Smackdown is exactly what Cena's is on Raw. The top face. Orton and Cena had to share the spotlight on Raw for a couple of years, so they fixed that by giving Orton a promotion. Now he is the #2 guy and gets to be on top of a brand rather than being overshadowed or having to share the spotlight.

CM Punk is not going to be the official #2 guy of the WWE until he is on top of his own show. Cena and Orton are at a whole other level than the others right now, as the biggest stars of this era. Punk's up there though, he is growing in popularity and being involved in a huge conspiracy angle currently. He might get to be the #2 guy some day, but I don't see that happening because he is not the top guy of either show and might never be unless something career-ending happened to either Cena or Orton, then Punk could step it up to take himself to the next level.

 

[MaxSteel]

First off, I like Orton as a wrestler, even with the stale boring bullshit gimmick he's stuck in right now. Actually, even within it, Orton still shows some uniqueness every now and then, which just shows how good he is. However, people here give too much importance to how great potentially a superstar is, and also his past accomplishments. We're talking about the most relevant superstars today, not how great somebody was or how great he can be.

This being said, I think the #1-#2 spots are shared between John Cena and CM Punk. Why? I'll explain.

In terms of merchandise, John Cena is naturally outdoing Punk.. but not by much! I don't know specific details, but I did read punk's merch is selling exceptionally well, and considering his shirt recently sold out nearly instantly, I'm inclined to believe to those reports.

In terms of representing the company on the outside, John Cena is naturally doing more then Punk regularly.. can't say anything here. But it's not to say punk doesn't do anything - first, his "shoot" promo gave the WWE more attention then all of John Cena's activities in the recent years, combined. Second, since his promo he's been doing lots of interviews, and has done his share to give the WWE attention. He's not #1 here yet (and I think even if he surpasses Cena, the Miz is still gonna be #1 here), but he's doing great, I believe even better then Orton (actually, after that interview involving him talking about Kelly Kelly, I think it only hurt the WWE in general, and so it hurt his status in it).

In terms of popularity with the crowd.. this is the interesting part.. I think Punk is more over then Cena!
I noticed that while the legions of 6-12 year old kids don't chant like mad every time Punk enters the arena, punk actually gets immense ovation in certain spots during his promos and matches. Too be honest, at the end of his match last RAW my ears actually hurt from the ovation Punk got during his final exchange with Miz.. I'm serious, it was insane! The match was great, even the ever complaining Josh Isenberg gave it an A, but still, it was obvious that immense reaction was for Punk.
On the other hand, you have John Cena. Surely, he gets that mad chants from the Kinds every time he enters (and even that only in some cities, others just boo him lol), but what next?
He does get a roar of a reaction, but that's only due to the boo's mixing with the chants. Try listening to "Lets go Cena" chants alone once. Do they sound louder then "C! M! PUNK!!" chants you hear during punk's matches? I don't think so. Punk without a doubt gets louder sparks of positive reaction then Cena.
As for Cena's negative reaction... why do people even think for a second a negative reaction is good for a face? If people hate him, it by no means make him better at what he does.

So I'd say, it all depends on where you look at it from.
From the company standpoint, Cena is the #1 guy.
From the fanbase standpoint, it seems there are many who consider Punk to be the #1 face over Cena, and their number is higher then just the kids/women who root for Cena. Just remember the recent Cena/Punk stand-offs, and tell me who gets the bigger positive reaction.
As far as Orton goes, as much as I like the guy, he's not #2 in the WWE from both company and fanbase standpoint, as good as he is. Just read the reasons people before me posted - I don't want to copy-paste them.

 

[MetalFace DOOM]

I absolutely despise Randy Orton, but to think that he isn't the WWE's number two guy is just asinine. Orton is insanely over and the face of Smackdown. The guy gets a crazy good reaction no matter where they are. The fans just love the guy and he is one of, if not the most consistent superstar on the card. He puts on stellar matches week in and week out. I get the love for CM Punk, the guy is great. He is arguably the best in ring star in the business and on the mic. However he isn't over near as much as Randy. Punk's pops are inconsistent. Sometimes the crowd absolutely adores him and eats right out of his hand. Other times it just doesn't feel like it is there. Both guys are great, but Punk isn't a guy the WWE is going to put the burden of the load on his shoulders and let him go. Punk is the second tier star behind Cena and Orton. He is a guy that will put on great matches and contend for the championship, but will never surpass what Cena and Orton are going to do.

You know what i like about this guy here? He's a true wrestling fan... and he acknowledges the truth despite hating Randy Orton's guts... So i rather listen to somebody like this guy then to listen to a "Jaded" CM Punk fan that figures..

"Since i love Punk so much, that means he's the best thing smoking in the WWE over everybody"

Look: There is no doubt that CM Punk is a great talent, and is finally doing something right, finally getting a push, finally getting a opportunity but....You cant sit here and tell me that he's at the level of Cena and Orton, that he consistently gets more pops from the crowds than those two... or has been where he is at now since the beginning.

Punk still isnt getting the crowd reactions that he should get or deserves i could say. Its half and half with him. 1 week he gets the pops, next week he doesnt. like Theo Mays says... his pops are to inconsistent. Cena and Orton pops are consistent every damn week. And news flash: When Orton was on Raw, he was getting the most pops, even more than Cena. Shit just because he's on Smackdown doesnt mean you can't argue the fact that he still might out pop Cena or anyone else in the Company period right now.

Punk is better at the Mic than those 2 and only because.. Cena prefers to be Kayfabe "sticking to the script" with his material, which honestly you cant bash him for that, he's doing his job.. As is Orton. Orton's character doesnt call for him to be electric on the Mic plus... We all have seen back in the day that he can be electric and engaging.

And Punk isn't better than those two in the ring, but his style is better and he is better than most and just as good as Cena and Orton.. even to me.

Punk has potential and a chance to at least be the #3 guy which is honestly a huge thing. It honestly doesnt matter what number he is, as long as he is one of the Main Main Eventers in the Company... Thats all i want for him.

Just because Undertaker or HHH wasn't exactly 1 or 2 like Austin and The Rock.. Doesn't mean that they weren't as important as those 2. And at the end of the day, the were just as big as those 2.

 

[The Future Rises]

I agree. I even think Punk is tied with Cena when it comes to the number one spot. Orton is probably the third main face as much as I don't like him. But Punk is so much more popular than him and I think getting crushed my Henry summed this up for me.

Orton is the top face of Smackdown. But by he's not by all means the face/2nd top face in the company. Well at least I don't consider him one of the two top faces. Maybe it's because I just don't like him but to me he's definitely not the top or second top face. He's number 3 at best.

 

[JUSTINMFNBEEMER]

Since... always. That's what you are when you're the second most over guy on the roster.



No one, outside of Austin and Hogan, could make Smackdown a success. It's the #2 show, and no one gives a shit. Blaming Orton is beyond stupid.



I'd love to see his numbers side-by-side with guys like Taker and Edge. Move Punk to Smackdown, and I'd venture to guess not much would change.



Well, given how over Orton is, I'm guessing his t-shirt sells. Oh, and once again, you fail to provide any proof backing up your claims. Why should anyone take this with anything more than a grain of salt?



How old is Punk? Seriously, you're lost. Orton gets huge ovations just about everywhere he goes. Punk is over, but no more so than Orton. Crowd reactions say I'm right.

well we can tell who ortons backstage fluffer is....and seriously, has anyone ever seen someone wearing an orton shirt?fuck orton, only good thing about him is when im out of sleeping meds i just go on youtube, watch an orton promo, and boom, out like a light

 

[the_awesome MIZ]

I agree. I even think Punk is tied with Cena when it comes to the number one spot. Orton is probably the third main face as much as I don't like him. But Punk is so much more popular than him and I think getting crushed my Henry summed this up for me.

Orton is the top face of Smackdown. But by he's not by all means the face/2nd top face in the company. Well at least I don't consider him one of the two top faces. Maybe it's because I just don't like him but to me he's definitely not the top or second top face. He's number 3 at best.

I cant stop laughing,most of the smarks here probably piss in their pants after hearing CM Punk's name as they think that he is better than everyone in every aspect..
How is CM punk tied with cena is beyond me,i agree that he gets great pops at some places but at other places his pops are near to non existant,,..
Orton get huge pops where ever he is,he even out pops cena sometimes,but still you people dont agree,why?? Because you are in love with CM punk and everyone else sucks in your eyes specially if he is a top face!!
CM punk sells merchandise,,HEll even Zack Ryder do it,so is he the #4 top face above sheamus???
See the reality guys and unless CM Punk gets consistent pops everywhere he is no where near the level of Orton...Period

 

[The Future Rises]

I cant stop laughing,most of the smarks here probably piss in their pants after hearing CM Punk's name as they think that he is better than everyone in every aspect..
How is CM punk tied with cena is beyond me,i agree that he gets great pops at some places but at other places his pops are near to non existant,,..
Orton get huge pops where ever he is,he even out pops cena sometimes,but still you people dont agree,why?? Because you are in love with CM punk and everyone else sucks in your eyes specially if he is a top face!!
CM punk sells merchandise,,HEll even Zack Ryder do it,so is he the #4 top face above sheamus???
See the reality guys and unless CM Punk gets consistent pops everywhere he is no where near the level of Orton...Period

What the fuck? Just cause I have a different opinion than yours I'm somehow a smark? Trust me.. I get that term a lot it's not even funny to me anymore. I'm not "inlove with Punk" but I'm starting to think you're in love with Orton. Did I even mention selling merchandise? Punk always gets one of the biggest pops of the night IF not the biggest and you're giving Orton credit for outpoping Cena, something that CM Punk has done too? Maybe all the teenage girls scream whenever Randy comes out but he doesn't get a better pop than Punk. They're probably equals when it comes to getting a pop. But what I like about Punk is most of his fans are teens/adults yet he still gets a huge ass pop. Orton gets a pop sure I'll give him that. But I just don't think he's bigger than Punk right now. My opinion. Fuck off. Ok?

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Orton is the clear number two guy behind Cena. And that is not only because he is the face of Smackdown. He has been doing a great job for quite a while now stretching from right upto SummerSlam 2007. He has never left the main event ever since. WWE has done some great business in that while and Orton has shown that he can draw decently in Cena's absence as well. And like I said I am not just talking about Smackdown right now.

I like Punk a lot more than Orton. Yeah, don't go on my sig, that's a different story altogether. But the fact is Punk has to first of all emulate Orton before he can be considered the number two guy in the company. He is doing well, getting solid if somewhat inconsistent pops at most places and his T-shirt is selling quite well. Orton, I would like to add was almost outpopping Cena at the start of his face run in 2010 and still does it from time to time now. Punk does it at certain places, but not everywhere as of yet. The bigger reason, however is that Punk has only had a great couple of months whereas Orton has proved himself time and again for about four years.

Even right now Orton is getting a sustainable reaction as compared to Punk. Remember Punk has had the advantage of working with the cream of the company whereas Orton is working with people who are relatively not as accustomed to main eventing. Still, their reactions are mostly comparable. Punk's merch is selling more at the moment but that is because he is fresher as compared to Orton.

To displace Orton as the number two guy in the company, Punk needs to be as hot as he is now for more than a couple of years at least and needs to prove himself as a draw in Cena's absence. Just one good storyline cannot radically change the pecking order inside the company. Consistency is a very important factor as well.

 

[The Champ]

Punk is clearly the number two guy, so I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. He's been booked above Orton for months and he even got top billing over Cena at Night of Champions. Also, being nearly equal to Cena as a top face on Raw automatically makes him above the top face on SmackDown. When Edge was SD's top guy, was he the number two guy? No. Orton was, because he was the number two guy on Raw. If you have two HUGE faces on Raw who are constantly and consistently booked in the main event and in title feuds, they are the top two stars of the company. Period.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

To displace Orton as the number two guy in the company, Punk needs to be as hot as he is now for more than a couple of years at least and needs to prove himself as a draw in Cena's absence. Just one good storyline cannot radically change the pecking order inside the company. Consistency is a very important factor as well.

You're exactly right. Look, no one is denying that Punk's recent resurgence is great and that Punk is in the main event, and main storyline on RAW. However, as you mentioned Orton has been consistently a main eventer at every PPV for quite awhile now, whereas the same cannot be said about Punk.

IF Punk is still in the main event storyline next year at this time, then I would consider moving him up in the pecking order.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

He's been booked above Orton for months and he even got top billing over Cena at Night of Champions

Orton has been booked above Punk for YEARS, that's right YEARS. He has been in virtually every main event at every PPV, for quite awhile.

By main event, I mean either the RAW main event or Smackdown main event.

 

[Dusty Roids]

The number one guy on Smackdown is still the number 2 in the WWE. But Punk is on his way to becoming the number 2. That's the way i see it.

 

[PunkNation26]

Punk gets inconsistent pops because his fans are smart and knowledgeable and are obviously outnumbered by the sheep teenage girls and non wrestling fan adults who bring their kids to shows.

When Punk get's established, he will out pop Orton and will also have the overall better career. Punk is Jerichoesque in that he's great at everything a pro wrestler can do.

 

[The Champ]

Orton has been booked above Punk for YEARS, that's right YEARS. He has been in virtually every main event at every PPV, for quite awhile.

By main event, I mean either the RAW main event or Smackdown main event.

Okay, so he was booked to be more important than Punk for years. That is a true statement. It's also a true statement that Punk is clearly being booked far above Orton right now. Therefore, Orton was a bigger star than Punk for years, whereas Punk is a bigger star than Orton right now. Simple logic.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

Okay, so he was booked to be more important than Punk for years. That is a true statement. It's also a true statement that Punk is clearly being booked far above Orton right now. Therefore, Orton was a bigger star than Punk for years, whereas Punk is a bigger star than Orton right now. Simple logic.

You missed my point. The point is, Orton has been so far over for a long, long time. That is why he is the #2 guy in WWE. Due to longevity. Punk has been over in this one feud, basically since Summerslam. Come talk to me when he's been as over as Orton, for 4 straight years. Then we'll see if Punk has elevated to #2 status behind Cena.

 

[BillAlfonso]

I got to say the nayno, my damie, wa da ta.

I think that they're just focusing on Punk now, I think the real story is what happens when they stop focusing on any one superstar in general. It would just go right back to Cena and, if RKO was on Raw, it'd go back to Cena and RKO. At the moment, they're trying to build Punk to Cena and RKO's level, is it working, I think it was but it's slowed down. If it does, then I'd buy Punk as number 2. Until then, RKO is still second to Cena because there are more younger fans which is a shame because Punk being Straight Edge is a great message for the younger fans.

 

[Jeritron5000]

You missed my point. The point is, Orton has been so far over for a long, long time. That is why he is the #2 guy in WWE. Due to longevity. Punk has been over in this one feud, basically since Summerslam. Come talk to me when he's been as over as Orton, for 4 straight years. Then we'll see if Punk has elevated to #2 status behind Cena.

That doesn't make any sense. I'm pretty sure this thread is about who's the #2 guy right now. If we start injecting time periods into this argument it kind of kills the whole point. So for you to be satisfied in Punk being described as the #2 guy currently, you first need to see if he can sustain his #2 status for as long as Orton? So that we can one day look back and say, "Hey. It turns out CM Punk was the #2 guy in the WWE when, 4 years ago, that OP made that thread claiming that he was."?

I know where you're coming from because there's no doubt Orton is one of their most ESTABLISHED stars, but fact of the matter is, in terms of WWE programming right now, Punk is second only to Cena. He's one of their hottest commodities and, if his momentum burns out, so be it and Orton can reclaim his spot.