Better Wrestler Randy Orton or CM Punk?

[terrylee]

rockyrocky11, you're really on Orton's dick, aren't you?

Orton's been around in the WWE for much longer than Punk and has had more time in the main event scene, so of course he has a larger list of "moments". Does that make him a better wrestler? You're crazy if you think so. There are two things that define how good a wrestler is:

Pure wrestling skill? CM Punk trumps Orton by miles. CM Punk has an innovative offense with a wide array of attacks and submissions, and could do so much more if the WWE didn't limit him (same goes for the likes of Daniel Bryan Danielson - watch them both in the Indies to see some of the stuff they can pull off)

Mic skill? CM Punk is the best promo man in the business right now, so this obviously isn't even a debate

If you honestly think Punk is better in the ring you're crazy.

You're an idiot. You really are. You list Orton's achievements, but that goes right down to the writing. When it comes to being "in the ring", Punk is 100x the wrestler Orton is. You make it sound like Orton is this amazing wrestler, but when people talk about the great wrestlers (and by that I mean in terms of their WRESTLING ABILITY not their "achievements" like you seem to love going on about) Orton is almost never mentioned. It's always the likes of Punk, Dolph Ziggler, Evan Bourne, and DBD. Tell me, what makes Orton great in the ring? The dropkick he can do? The spike DDT? The RKO? What else? There's only one thing Orton is better at in the ring than Punk: acting like an epileptic having a seizure.

I'm not even a CM Punk mark. So take off your Orton goggles and get off his dick.

 

[Tripleb2k1]

its not about better...they have varying styles so can't really make a fair comparison

 

[Foshinzo]

All I'm going to attempt to add is that I do think Punk is better. Randy Orton is an underrated performer, though. He's consistent, he's accurate, and he's almost always on. Now, in my personal opinion, Orton is just a little bit of a one trick pony. His matches aren't bad, but they just run together. He's introduced (or reintroduced, in this case,) some moves to his repertoire, like that shoulder-neckbreaker thing he's done/doing, but I do think Orton is better when he's paired with a wrestler who's probably at least a little better than him. We've seen before, especially with Kofi, that Orton has big potential to bury a career, and I really dislike him for that. But, like I said, he's just a little bit too consistent for my tastes. It's good that what he does isn't bad, but when every promo is that same droning, uninspired, monotone spill about his dark side and giving someone an RKO or kicking them in the skull, you just end up tuning out. Again, Orton is a solid performer, but he can't carry a show; he was a mid-card World Champion, pretty much his whole reign, last year.

I do think Punk is better than Orton. Sure, he botches a little bit more, but his style is more exciting, IMO. Also, I don't think anyone is better than Punk on the mic, so there's that. I know everyone is drinking the Punk Kool-Aid, these days, and it's easy for someone to get carried away, but I do think he is better than Orton. I think Miz is better than Orton, too, but that's a different argument.

I agree that Punk is better than Orton, but I also agree that Orton is underrated and understated. Orton has a better history than Punk, though. But, Orton got his break years ago, and Punk is just now really getting started. Sure, I voted for Punk, but the argument is a little closer than people think.

 

[mikde_]

this is a much harder question than alot of people are making it out to be. Heres how i will break it down.

Punk is not amazing in the ring, people who think he is are delluded. He has a great wrestling mind and knows what to do and when to do it. But at times he is sloppy.

Orton is a very solid performer. He rarely makes any mistake and even bret hart said that his execution is better than anyone in the WWE right now. However he rarely leaves his comfort zone unlike punk.

i cant really decide if im honest. But if i were to pick i think punk might just take it.

 

[keehlnate]

Ring-performance? Orton is definitely better than CM Punk. He got a lot of moves in his arsenal that are really awesome. Orton's wrestling skills is really suitable for WWE where it is mostly for entertainment. Meanwhile punk's moves are not that stellar.

On doing promos? CM Punk is definitely the best here. No one can match him on the mic except for Cena. Not even Triple H. Not even The Rock. He can talk on the ring for hours without boring the crowd. He is natural. Orton is no way a good talker.

But what if these two fight in a REAL match? Despite Orton being the bigger guy, I'll say CM Punk wins in a real fight because of his Muay Thai background.

So who is the better wrestler? I don't really know. Why not have both?

 

[Syn]

The title of the thread reads "Wrestler" correct?

Because alot of the arguements to whom is better are completely redonkulous.

How many titles, factions, and fueds a person has had does not define a "wrestler". It defines the superstar. Wrestling is completely different. The in ring technique, story telling, moveset, enthralling a crowd, are part of your wrestling skills.

And for gods sake, being able to do an RKO counter out of nowhere does not make Orton better. You have to remember that alot of the times wrestlers are TOLD what to use as a finisher. Orton lucked out and got such a versatile one. His "ability" to counter a Attitude Adjustment or a Chokeslam has nothing to do with his actual wrestling skills it has to do with a spot for the match that he is told to perform. He has gotten much better at performing the RKO now though. Very few wrestlers get to bring a finisher with them. Bourne's SSP is one such exception. He had to prove that he could perform it before they would unban it.

Orton has had a career already. He got pushed from the beginning. He had been graced with being liked by those incharge. He got pushed to the moon with Evolution and HHH. Didnt matter how much of an asshole he seemed to be backstage with other wrestlers, he got pushed. Apparently he's grown over the years and doesnt act the same. Orton has the look, and he can get by in matches. He's exceptionally good at working off of people who know what they are doing. Christian can make the worst wrestler look good, so someone like Orton looks amazing.

Punk got screwed from the beginning, being an "indy guy". It wasnt until the last little while that hes been given the go ahead. The man is a genious in and a gentlemen out of the ring. He does not make enemies outside of those who are jealous. He treats people with respect. He was the ROH goldenchild because they knew what they had. If the WWE truely lets him keep going, theres no doubt he could be their next top guy. Punk has been credited with possibly starting a whole new era for the WWE. Something Orton could never have done. Simply because Punk is different. Orton is just slightly out of the cookie cutter mold.

But a career does not make a wrestler.

Orton has had his fair share of slip ups, the famous missed RKO on Jericho for one. Much like Cena, Orton has gotten too stale in the ring. Used to enjoy all of his matches, but as time has went on it seems like he just "shows up" for the match. I also find him incredibly dull on the mic and in matches, I just dont get drawn into them. Orton is a WWE guy. He was taught the WWE way. His mat skills are severely limited when compared to Punk.

Punk is one of the rare individuals that can actually compete with Jericho, Angle, Benoit, Hart, and Guerrero when it comes to technique. Punk has performed more different moves in any one year of his career than many of the WWE roster has done in their careers (yes this obviously is a reference to the younger cookie cutter generation, but could even include Orton and Cena). Punk HAS to work a WWE style. A much slower paced style, with much slower paced people. Orton, Cena, and the like are not used to a fast paced match. Cena tried at MITB and Punk got to show just a fraction of his moveset.

At this point, Orton is the better Superstar. But Punk is by far the better "wrestler". There are few on the roster who could hold a candle to Punk as a wrestler.

EDIT --- saw a couple other posts that occured while i was writing this lol

@mikde (and a few others) Bret Hart saying that Orton was the "excellence of execution now" is not Hart saying Orton is the best wrestler. Hart is saying that Orton is the best at what he does. The character he plays, he doesnt waver. If you can cook 5 things perfectly everytime then you excel at those 5 foods. If you only cook 5 foods though, your still boring as hell compared to someone that cooks 50, and excels at 48. Overall a bad analogy for a wrestling forum but still haha.

@keehlnate

Go to youtube, look up the top moves of CM Punk, find one not related to just WWE moves. Orton's moves are very bland in comparison. With the RKO counters being Ortons only saving grace.

 

[LOLUMAD?]

@ terrylee Made this account just to tell you that you obviously are extremely biased. First why would someone who is not a cm punk mark get so personal over an opinion which most of the people on here seem to be defending. Orton is obviously more safe and sound in the ring then punk and it is not fair at all to assume that punk and bryan are the only two guys in the wwe who dont do every move they know.

Austin is the most popular wrestler in history, how many moves did he do? Austin was a good in-ring guy not because of his arsenal, but because of his psychology. Austins moment was not applying his 200 moves to someone, it was passing out to the sharpshooter, passing out got him over. In the ring every business man in the world would take orton, and that is nothing against punk, but orton does not do a move until he can do it perfectly. Have you ever seen a cm punk match before? he is sloppy and that is not a bad thing it is just not live TV safe.

Really go count every move that punk has done . did you watch him fail countless times in the indies trying to do moves like a climbing hurricanrana to colt cabana ( it would be a very difficult move ). But saying that punk is 100x better then orton is absolutely ridiculous. Why because of his arsenal? who is considered the greatest of all time? Austin, Rock, and Hogan are easily three of if not the 3 most popular wrestlers ever. How big was their arsenal? I have never seen a match that was good only because of a bunch of moves. I would watch cena do his 5 moves all day then watch some indy guy do 400 moves with no heart in it. And apparently so would most people seeing how cena has been the top face for years.

Saying you are not a punk mark is a obviously a lie, do you think everybody on here is as ignorant as you and have to stoop to insults to try to prove an invalid point? The only thing you said with any support to it is that punk is better on the mic, punk is fantastic on the mic. Sure punk as been in the wwe for a third of the time orton has, excluding ECW, but does he have a third of the achievements? no. i'm not trying to put down punk, only defending orton. Punk is great and deserves every ounce of push hes getting. Oh im going to be honest unlike most people here, I am a punk mark, i also am an orton mark.

I, like most people who are afraid to deny it, did not give punk that much attention until his promo and if he did something to catch my attention before then maybe i would have. Most people are biased and you can see it when as soon as someone types an even toned post, people respond with " shut up your an idiot, i like wrestling more cause i like guys who know a bunch of moves and are not over". Internet fans just want to be more hardcore and like indie guys but give little credit to guys who were good enough not to have to be in the indies. I pay attention to facts and those have been scarce around here just a bunch opinions which people think cant be wrong just cause they slap the word opinion on it. Opinions are no different then other thoughts, they can be and usually are wrong, just as yours was.

 

[LOLUMAD?]

i would rather have 5 delicious meals then 50 shitty ones. why do you assume that randy does not know a large amount of moves? randy has been wrestling for longer and was born into it. Im sure if orton spent his time in the indies with 10 people watching him he could do some amazing things too, he is much more of an athlete. How can you say that punk is a rare guy who can compete with hart and angle? have you seen him do it? What in the world are you talking about " the career does not make the wrestler "? of course it does if rock spent his career jobbing in the indies would he be headlining wrestlemania next year? people over hype the indies. there is a reason to everything including why the indies are the indies, hardly anybody watches it. You want entertainment, WWE is your place. You want fast pace exciting wrestling, watch lucha.


Punk is respectful out of the ring, you may be right but hearing him tell fans not to approach him, and trying to pick fights with fans isnt what i would put in that category. But he very well may be i have never been lucky enough to meet the man. Yes, i understand not wanting to be approached at certain times, but i have never heard of cena denying anybody anything at anytime. And i have not seen ( once again i could easily be mistaken ) any evidence of randy orton NOT being gentleman.

 

[GI Cake]

Randy Orton and CM Punk are both great talents under the WWE banner. Their is no wonder why both of them have had the careers they have. However when it comes down to overall wrestling ability, CM Punk takes the cake.

Lets start with stables. In every stable CM Punk was a part of, he was the leader. He did all the mic-work and was in charge of everyone under him. Legacy might have had a better stint than the Straight Edge society did but that was for the purpose in bringing two young talents in Ted Dibaise, and Cody Rhodes. Both of which, are generation superstars. CM Punk then took the reigns of the New Nexus. Sadly the stable before Punk was fading away and dying. Wade had just got 20 chairs dropped on his head and members of the group were getting squashed left and right. CM Punk breathed new life into the stable for some time before they vanished from the face of the earth. Needless to say Randy Orton never needed to do much for the stables he took part in. In Evolution he was the pretty boy of the stable. He had Ric Flair and Triple H do the talking and their career's alone helped put Orton over.

Now when it comes to overall Wrestling CM Punk has an edge over Randy Orton. CM Punk can do it all, he can work the technical game, the submission game, and has a plenty of high-flying moves in his array of moves. CM Punk may not have the size and strength of Randy Orton, but he makes up for it with believable cunning and makes perfect flowing transitions between moves. And when it comes down to telling a story in the ring, Randy Orton can only manage that with the right dance partner. If he is in the ring with the likes of Triple H or John Cena, the viper can display emotion in the ring. But in matches like the one he had against Dolph Ziggler, it just feels like he was going through the motions and moving on from spot to spot.

When it comes down to Greatest moments. Randy Orton has the edge, the guy is a WWE purebreed and it shows in his career. No one else but a 3rd generation star would have been given the stories he has now. Because lets face the facts, if Randy Orton was not a 3rd generation and was lets say...Randy Smith, the WWE wouldn't have thought twice about hiring a dishoneredly discharged Marine looking for work. But granted, RKO made the most out of every angle he was in and it shows in the reactions he gets from the crowd.

When we talk about reactions, both of them are at even-kneel here. Both Randy Orton and CM Punk are great faces but were even better heels. When CM Punk was feuding with Rey Mysterio they stole the show each week on Smackdown and had the second best match at Wrestlemania. And when Randy Orton was feuding with Triple H, the angles taken in that feud were high in shock value and which allowed him a ton of heat. But even being pushed as a heel, CM Punk got a huge face reaction from Chicago in Money in The Bank and caused the stadium to turn on baby face John Cena. That is something only the greats like Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels could have done.

 

[CaptainInsano]

who is considered the greatest of all time? Austin, Rock, and Hogan are

Saying the greatest wrestlers of all time are these three is an opinion and lie. They are three of the biggest draws ever, but are not three of the best wrestlers are. They wouldn't be in the top 10 wrestling wise. There are much better wrestlers than them like Arn Anderson, Bret Hart, Mitsuhara Misawa, Chris Beniot, Chris Jericho, and I can go on and on.

With that said, I do feel CM Punk is a better wrestler than Orton. I love when wrestlers show growth and expand their movesets and don't become stagnant. Orton's moves are very crisp, but he rarely leaves a comfort zone and he loses appeal. Punk on the other hand, expands his moveset and makes matches more unpredictable which is excellent. The wrestlers I mentioned above can be sloppy at times like Punk, but are much better than Austin, Rock, and Hogan wrestling wise. I'd prefer to watch Punk over Orton, due to him expanding his moves and making matches more exciting which is what wrestling needs instead of people trying to be perfect and staying in their comfort zone.

Another very simple argument is how many 5 star matches has Punk has compared to Orton. Punk has had two 5 star matches while Punk has had none.

 

[BestInTheWold]

The reason CM Punk doesn't have as big a career as Orton is because he has not been given as much chances. Orton has been given a chance to wrestler every one in a WWE locker room. Randy Orton was brought to The "Major Leagues" when CM Punk was in ROH. i mean he was had more time to grow as a performer in the "Major Leagues" then Punk and that's why i think you can say Randy Orton does have a bigger career then Punk.

 

[DERO1979]

This is a good post I think and it's a good comparison between the two. "Wrestler" is a term that carries a fine line. Hogan is the greatest wrestler of all time but Kurt Angle is a much better WRESTLER
If the purpose of this thread is to discern who is the best in ring wrestler I'd have to go with Randy Orton. His matches over the years have been far more interesting than Punk. He's had some good feuds, been a part of a really good faction, etc.

Punk is better on the mic - there's no doubt. If I were starting my own wrestling promotion though and could only build my company around one of these guys and they were both free agents, to me it's Orton. He's just got more marketability, more mass appeal.

I don't like either of these guys so I'm not a "mark" for either one but Orton is still going to be a big star 3 years from now just like he was 3 years ago. Punk is a flavor of the week IMO. I've said it 5 times now probably on these boards in different posts.

A year from now he will not have the steam he does at the moment and two years from now he won't be a main event player....I fully expect the main event of WrestleMania 30 in 2 and a half years to be Orton vs Cena. Punk will probably be back on the mid card by then....

 

[Kayoh]

This is actually a really good debate, but only because the two guys being discussed are so close and yet so different from each other. You have Orton, the guy who isn't going to get ANYBODY excited by talking, but puts on some of the best matches of the last few years. On the other hand, you have Punk, who hasn't had any real classic matches up until last month at Money in the Bank, but can talk asses into seats and remote controls onto that "Purchase" button.

I honestly don't know if there is any one correct answer here. They're just so totally different. If you want to watch Smackdown last night and analyze which one the crowd popped harder for, honestly, it'll probably be Orton. Then again, Punk didn't compete last night, and Orton was the last guy to enter in the main event. It all comes down to opinion because there is no 100% correct answer for this.

Orton makes every match mean something in the ring. He is generally boring on the mic but knows how to pop a crowd when the time is right.

Punk makes every single promo equal money. He sells tickets and pay per view buys without even stepping foot into the ring, and it makes his matches all seem more important than they really are.

They're pretty close; in my opinion, Punk is better just because there is a wider gap between his and Orton's mic skills than Orton and Punk's in-ring skills.

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

Randy Orton is the best professional wrestler in the WWE.

He's put on 5 star matches with almost every top talent in the business over the past 5 years.

He's been able to work matches with absolute crap and come out with a decent and entertaining match. I'm talking about his match with Khali from a few weeks back on Smackdown.

He's had great matches with Punk, Christian, Cena, Batista, Triple H, HBK, Undertaker, Foley, Edge... the list continues.

His ability to come up with new spots to hit the RKO on different wrestlers has been unmatched by anyone. Does everyone remember the Air-RKO ? I about shit my pants after seeing that, I was sure Bourne's neck was snapped, but he came out ok.

He adds a new move almost weekly to his move set during his matches, recently he's been doing that vicious back breaker, his power slam, hes belly to belly, and belly to back suplex.

Orton is on the top of his game in ring. Hate his character all you want, but the fans are eating up miles of his shit right now

CM Punk has improved a lot over the past year in the WWE, but he isn't as good as Orton. Punk has had great matches with Orton, Mysterio, Cena and a few others over the past year or so, but he's not at the level Orton is at.

Orton is by far the best wrestler hands down in the WWE Right now.

 

[the_awesome MIZ]

I am a big CM punk and Orton fan but there is no way in hell that CM Punk is better than Orton...
some of the marks carry on going that orton is bland,boring and blah blah blah..
Orton is not boring and his character is awesome and he is not CEna 2.0 as well as many people call him..
Orton is a better wrestler,entertainer and superstar.Period..

 

[Syn]

i would rather have 5 delicious meals then 50 shitty ones. why do you assume that randy does not know a large amount of moves? randy has been wrestling for longer and was born into it. Im sure if orton spent his time in the indies with 10 people watching him he could do some amazing things too, he is much more of an athlete. How can you say that punk is a rare guy who can compete with hart and angle? have you seen him do it? What in the world are you talking about " the career does not make the wrestler "? of course it does if rock spent his career jobbing in the indies would he be headlining wrestlemania next year? people over hype the indies. there is a reason to everything including why the indies are the indies, hardly anybody watches it. You want entertainment, WWE is your place. You want fast pace exciting wrestling, watch lucha.


Punk is respectful out of the ring, you may be right but hearing him tell fans not to approach him, and trying to pick fights with fans isnt what i would put in that category. But he very well may be i have never been lucky enough to meet the man. Yes, i understand not wanting to be approached at certain times, but i have never heard of cena denying anybody anything at anytime. And i have not seen ( once again i could easily be mistaken ) any evidence of randy orton NOT being gentleman.

I said have 5 delicious meals, or have 48 delicious meals out of 50.

A career makes the "superstar". Im talking about a wrestler, someone who has trained and knows the in and out of the ring. A ring technician. Hart, Benoit, Jericho, Angle, they are all technicians. Why? because they were WWE bred. They learned their skills elsewhere. Punk is one of the last few people in WWE who worked in other countries, who learned a multitude of styles. Orton was trained by WWE people, he never had to go out there and pave a way for himself. He was handed everything on a silver platter.

Punk is a great person. But his character he plays can sometimes not be. Do not get them confused. As telling a fan to screw off when in the heat of the character is not to be confused with the idea that he will show up to conventions and sign autographs, take photos and chat with fans. Not because he HAS to, but because he wants to.

Orton has come along way from who he used to be. Reports of how he would bitch and wine after a match about how he didn't like the way someone was in a match, meanwhile he was botching things left and right. He rubbed a lot of wrestlers the wrong way at the beginning. Many thought of him as a spoiled brat. Then there is the infamous "shit" he put in a divas bag on an airplane. The man was a child when he first joined the WWE. He has manned up quite a lot and for that I commend him.

Cena is a shining example of the perfect employee. When he first started he worked his way up to the stop. He was said to want to constantly improve and learn new things. Now that hes on top, he does what he needs to get by mostly. But he does everything the WWE asks of him and more. While some wrestlers/fans may hate the fact he got where he is without really "working for it" by traversing the world and learning new skills and expanding what he does. People love him, he is overall a great person.

@French Kiss
Officially, he hasnt had any 5* matches. When looked at by PWI standards. Personally he's had quite a few 4 and a half star matches, just missing something to pull that 5* in my eyes. To be honest though, I dont agree with PWI saying Punk has had two 5* matches in WWE. In ROH hes had tons, but i thought his WWE 5* were more 4 and a half as well.

Orton has had all those great matches with people because hes a good worker. Christian, Edge, HHH, Taker, HBK can make people look amazing. Cena and Orton and Batista worked well together but without throwing more hardcore stuff in, the matches would be boring as hell. And well Foley, when it comes to a hardcore match, noone makes someone look better than Foley.

You're confusing him coming up with counters for his RKO with the writers telling him where to use a big spot. Matches are predetermined. Some people are skilled enough they are told to go on the fly with only certain things scripted. A finisher countered into a RKO is a big "spot" and they make sure it happens.

He hasnt "added" these moves. Many of these moves he had when he debuted but in the last few years hes dropped alot of them. Its nice to see him using them again though.



@ awesome_miz
While all of this thread is more or less opinion based, at least put some effort into your post. Orton right now could very well be called Cena 2.0. Gets beat up in a match, pulls off a few moves, and ends it.

 

[Dusty Roids]

I can only say on mic skills that Punk owns Randall. In ring skills I don't know. They are both very good and know their game. I would say punk is more well rounded with his moveset but that does not necessarily make him better. Randall is bigger so he has to have another style that fits him. I am talking wwe work right now.

I love their matches vs eachother at mania 27 and extreme rules. the Punk-Cena or Randall-Christian matches both have been awesome.

It's hard to see right now. They both have so much to offer.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I like both Orton and Punk and I would say that they are more or less equal in all aspects. Punk may be slightly more natural on the mic but I believe that Orton is someone who has improved a lot over the years. If you hear him in his early years even when he had become World Champion and all, he was still cutting some god awful promos. Orton really hit his stride say around 2007 or so. He still had some good matches before 2007 but they were few and far between. He has obviously become a far more consistent performer nowadays and his matches with Christian and Cena in 2009 are proof of that statement. Punk, I would say, however has always been very consistent in the ring and has never had a bogey opponent, a guy whom he has bad matches with no matter what, like Orton had with Triple H. But if you were to judge Punk and Orton now, it would be very hard to select one of the two.

I would like to however point out that the OP's post is slightly ridiculous. He has talked about Orton having greater achievements than Punk and that surprises nobody. Orton made his WWE debut in 2002 and being a third generation superstar and all, was pushed to the main event almost immediately. He has always had the company behind him because they believed that he would be a huge superstar no matter what. He was always given the opportunity to work with great talent like Foley, Undertaker and HHH all within the first three years of his debut! Tell me which other rookie has had so much support? Yet, he more or less blew up his first two pushes and as I have said earlier, really hit his stride in 2007 or so.

Punk did not have that support. If reports are to be believed the company officials were very hostile towards because he was an indy sensation and a Paul Heyman guy. It was not until Shawn Michaels backed him did the management really take notice of him. Punk blew up his first opportunity of being a main eventer in 2008 but came back strong with a program with Jeff Hardy in 2009 and now his stuff with Cena. He has been given far less opportunities than Orton not because Orton is talented but because he has had more support from the company. This can be proved because Orton was pushed in his initial years despite giving some very mediocre performances. Orton, you should also remember, made his debut way before Punk and is therefore bound to have achieved more than him.

But like I said earlier, that while I do not really like what the OP has had to say about this topic, Orton and Punk are nearly equal in terms of talent.

 

[rockyrocky11]

Something I didn't include in my original post. Why doesn't athleticism count to any of you Punk marks. Punk can't do half the moves as well as orton due to athleticism. Think about the high knee drop he does, hopping up for a surprise RKO, and just overall devestating moves. His size lets him do devastating moves but his athleticism lets him pull them off better than anyone. When he slams someone it looks like it hurts a lot due to his size and they hit harder. It also lets him sell moves better.

(Nice Punk Clip) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouByG00sd7E

Randy has had bad botches but wtf is going on there.

 

[the_peter_man]

I was actually having this debate with a friend of mine tonight over a few beers. If we're talking in-ring abilty then there's no one, imo, that comes close to Orton. His moveset is broad, he executes everything well and his innovativeness is second to none. Punk is very close behind him, but for me lately Orton has it. And that's coming from a CM Punk mark.
If we're going to add mic skills in however, the fact that Randy bores me to death as a face automatically makes him a loser. We all know how Punk does on the stick, no question he's unrivalled. Ortons only saving grace is his persona is more intersting as a heel.
However i digress, best in ring performer is Orton. best all-rounder is Punk.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I said have 5 delicious meals, or have 48 delicious meals out of 50.

A career makes the "superstar". Im talking about a wrestler, someone who has trained and knows the in and out of the ring. A ring technician. Hart, Benoit, Jericho, Angle, they are all technicians. Why? because they were WWE bred. They learned their skills elsewhere. Punk is one of the last few people in WWE who worked in other countries, who learned a multitude of styles. Orton was trained by WWE people, he never had to go out there and pave a way for himself. He was handed everything on a silver platter.

Punk is a great person. But his character he plays can sometimes not be. Do not get them confused. As telling a fan to screw off when in the heat of the character is not to be confused with the idea that he will show up to conventions and sign autographs, take photos and chat with fans. Not because he HAS to, but because he wants to.

Orton has come along way from who he used to be. Reports of how he would bitch and wine after a match about how he didn't like the way someone was in a match, meanwhile he was botching things left and right. He rubbed a lot of wrestlers the wrong way at the beginning. Many thought of him as a spoiled brat. Then there is the infamous "shit" he put in a divas bag on an airplane. The man was a child when he first joined the WWE. He has manned up quite a lot and for that I commend him.

Cena is a shining example of the perfect employee. When he first started he worked his way up to the stop. He was said to want to constantly improve and learn new things. Now that hes on top, he does what he needs to get by mostly. But he does everything the WWE asks of him and more. While some wrestlers/fans may hate the fact he got where he is without really "working for it" by traversing the world and learning new skills and expanding what he does. People love him, he is overall a great person.

@French Kiss
Officially, he hasnt had any 5* matches. When looked at by PWI standards. Personally he's had quite a few 4 and a half star matches, just missing something to pull that 5* in my eyes. To be honest though, I dont agree with PWI saying Punk has had two 5* matches in WWE. In ROH hes had tons, but i thought his WWE 5* were more 4 and a half as well.

Orton has had all those great matches with people because hes a good worker. Christian, Edge, HHH, Taker, HBK can make people look amazing. Cena and Orton and Batista worked well together but without throwing more hardcore stuff in, the matches would be boring as hell. And well Foley, when it comes to a hardcore match, noone makes someone look better than Foley.

You're confusing him coming up with counters for his RKO with the writers telling him where to use a big spot. Matches are predetermined. Some people are skilled enough they are told to go on the fly with only certain things scripted. A finisher countered into a RKO is a big "spot" and they make sure it happens.

He hasnt "added" these moves. Many of these moves he had when he debuted but in the last few years hes dropped alot of them. Its nice to see him using them again though.



@ awesome_miz
While all of this thread is more or less opinion based, at least put some effort into your post. Orton right now could very well be called Cena 2.0. Gets beat up in a match, pulls off a few moves, and ends it.

You don't know what a good technician is because you don't know how to execute the moves. You only know what you're told from the WWE marketing dept who is a good technician. Bret Hart says Orton is a good technician.

Also, Angle was WWE trained. Amateur wrestling doesn't teach you how to do pro wrestling moves. Saying his amateur background gives him better technical skill would mean that Ken Shamrock should have been a technical wizard since he knew "real" shit. It's a stupid argument.

No, more moves don't make a guy better. The only people I've ever heard use "moveset" and "workrate" to critique a match or wrestler are smarks, Meltzer, and baggy pants wearing indy spot monkeys. Any legit wrestler, guys like Raven, CM Punk, Joe, Al Snow, Terry Funk, I've all heard talk more about making each move mean something and tell a story.

 

[AngryCenaFan]

Both are great but the slanted OP is garbage.

CM Punk is a better promo cutter, and better heel.

Orton is better in the ring

Ortons feuds however are predictable, he always comes out on top in the end, atleast with Punk you don't know for sure what will happen.

Let's not pretend Orton has been amazing for a long time, really it's been over the last year and a half where he really took it to another level

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

cm punk is more of a martial artist he relies on his leg strength and judo kicks etc.. while orton relies on just beating the living shit out of some one! orton wrestles like someone who would in the attitude era, he mainly brawls

what cm punk has over him is cm punk has greater leg strength and is a high flyer! and is a bit more hardcore

but orton has the upperbody strength and hes arm strength and can excecute moves greatly

orton is your traditional champion while cm punk is austin and christian put into 1 person

 

[ProPainScott]

Randy Orton has accomplished much more, and because of it, has had the chance to shine on a bigger stage many times, so i'd say he has the egde. CM Punk doesn't get any points for spooning with Samoa Joe an hour at a time back in 2004, that's for sure.

 

[ctln4rko]

CM Punk. Randy has really become a brawler. Bret Hart classifies Orton as a technician but I think that Orton is purely a brawler. Orton is a great brawler, but the question is who is a better wrestler. Punk is much more experiences from his time in the indies, and is a much better promo. Mostly for the fact that he can basically speak his mind. Orton plays his chararcter fantastically, but no matter what the character, Punk lives it.