[Official] All Zack Ryder Discussion (DO NOT SPAM!)

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

I think we all know Cena is not turning full heel most likely until after mania but from what we have seen tonight it looks more like a Ryder heel turn.

I think it would be more easier for the crowd to boo Ryder of Cena but Im skeptical of how a heel Ryder would play out.

Your thoughts?

 

[Huey]

I think Ryder did the worst job possible trying to get down the ramp on crutches. He really should have practiced.

While I haven't been a big fan of the whole relationship angle getting tied in with Cena, when he got in the ring and slapped Cena I was more interested in Ryder than I've been in a long time. I've always liked his youtube show more than his time on Raw but if he can use this and tweak his character I could be a fan.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't know if we'll see Ryder turn heel but tonight did make me wonder if tonight's Raw has far reaching applications for Ryder's character overall.

While it's logically not really Cena's fault, Ryder's life has been turned into a living hell over the past few months. He's been attacked and severely injured by Kane due to Kane's near obsession with bringing out Cena's dark side. It looked as though Ryder might blame Cena for all of this. After all, when you're in a lot of pain, there's a large amount of frustration involved and you sometimes tend to lash out in order to blame someone or something. Tonight, however, Cena was in a passionate embrace with Eve, nice work if you can get it. So not only is Ryder's career been decimated due, at least in some degree, to his friendship with Cena but he catches Cena with the girl that he's crazy about. While the "heat of the moment" and "emotions were wild & running high" explanations are again logical, it's also logical for Ryder to be seriously cheesed off and hurt. He was further hurt tonight after Kane damn near launched him into outer space by pushing him off the stage to close out the show. All could be good indicators of a future heel turn, but I don't think they'll go that route.

Ryder, if anything, came off tonight as more sympathetic in the eyes of fans than he's ever been. He's been hurt physically, he gets hurt physically some more and then the girl he's wild about shoves her tongue down another guy's throat before telling him that she's sorry and that she only wants to be "friends". A kicked puppy couldn't invoke more sympathy than that. With Kane attacking him again, I don't think Ryder will be much of a factor for a while physically either. Since this has all started, WWE has been portraying Ryder in a more serious light, including a guy with heart & guts, and I'm hoping that they'll keep that going when he returns. It'll be good for him in the long run I think.

It's natural for Ryder to want to get even in a situation like this but he's pretty powerless to do so. He's "injured" so he can't fight Cena but there's another way to do it. What if Ryder makes a surprise appearance at WrestleMania and winds up costing Cena his match against The Rock? That would really stick in Cena's craw as it's definitely the top thing on his mind. Cena wrestling in one of the most anticipated matches in WWE history and being cost that match, much to the delight of soooooo many fans that will be in attendence in Miami, could be that one last thing that ultimately pushes Cena into a fully fledged heel. The thought of the WWE Universe celebrating him losing, especially a loss brought about by Zack Ryder, could finally be a sign for Cena that the fans have truly "turned" on him.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

No way does Ryder go heel. He does a great job of a traditional face - get the heel over. In my opinion, very few people in WWE can do that any more.

To me, Eve Torres is the likeliest one to go heel out of the three.

 

[trashboy]

Yeah, my first thought was that Kane's "embrace the hate" was gonna rub off onto Zack Ryder instead of Cena embracing it. Especially after Eve kissed Cena, I thought Ryder's gonna be pissed and possibly turn heel. Who knows? Anyway, did anyone else think it was hilarious when Kane launched Ryder off the stage. I literally LOL'd. In fact, I laughed every time Kane did something to Ryder. Maybe I'm just a sick person. Yeah, I always root for the killer in horror movies as well.

 

[ForzaItalia]

I don't know if we'll see Ryder turn heel but tonight did make me wonder if tonight's Raw has far reaching applications for Ryder's character overall.

While it's logically not really Cena's fault, Ryder's life has been turned into a living hell over the past few months. He's been attacked and severely injured by Kane due to Kane's near obsession with bringing out Cena's dark side. It looked as though Ryder might blame Cena for all of this. After all, when you're in a lot of pain, there's a large amount of frustration involved and you sometimes tend to lash out in order to blame someone or something. Tonight, however, Cena was in a passionate embrace with Eve, nice work if you can get it. So not only is Ryder's career been decimated due, at least in some degree, to his friendship with Cena but he catches Cena with the girl that he's crazy about. While the "heat of the moment" and "emotions were wild & running high" explanations are again logical, it's also logical for Ryder to be seriously cheesed off and hurt. He was further hurt tonight after Kane damn near launched him into outer space by pushing him off the stage to close out the show. All could be good indicators of a future heel turn, but I don't think they'll go that route.

Ryder, if anything, came off tonight as more sympathetic in the eyes of fans than he's ever been. He's been hurt physically, he gets hurt physically some more and then the girl he's wild about shoves her tongue down another guy's throat before telling him that she's sorry and that she only wants to be "friends". A kicked puppy couldn't invoke more sympathy than that. With Kane attacking him again, I don't think Ryder will be much of a factor for a while physically either. Since this has all started, WWE has been portraying Ryder in a more serious light, including a guy with heart & guts, and I'm hoping that they'll keep that going when he returns. It'll be good for him in the long run I think.

It's natural for Ryder to want to get even in a situation like this but he's pretty powerless to do so. He's "injured" so he can't fight Cena but there's another way to do it. What if Ryder makes a surprise appearance at WrestleMania and winds up costing Cena his match against The Rock? That would really stick in Cena's craw as it's definitely the top thing on his mind. Cena wrestling in one of the most anticipated matches in WWE history and being cost that match, much to the delight of soooooo many fans that will be in attendence in Miami, could be that one last thing that ultimately pushes Cena into a fully fledged heel. The thought of the WWE Universe celebrating him losing, especially a loss brought about by Zack Ryder, could finally be a sign for Cena that the fans have truly "turned" on him.

Now that is a creative way to end Rock/Cena and tie up this Ryder/Cena/Kane Embrace the Hate storyline! That would put Ryder over for life in the eyes of the all the people who can not stand the John Cena character because it has gotten very stale and kid friendly since 2006.

As for Ryder turning heel, no way is he turning heel. Just as Jack Hammer said, Ryder came off more sympathetic tonight than Cena did. I completely agree with Hammer though, it would make sense for Ryder to blame Cena for costing him his big WM moment and months of his career, instead of taking the predictable and boring route of Ryder coming back to aid Cena in taking out Kane for good. With Eve showing heel-like changes, doesn't that mean that either Ryder or Cena would have to turn with her? Ryder can't be the guy because he already came across as the babyface in this position.

 

[Kelso1ftw]

I literally LOL'd. In fact, I laughed every time Kane did something to Ryder. Maybe I'm just a sick person. Yeah, I always root for the killer in horror movies as well.

honestly i laughed my ass off when that happened, i just kinda felt like it was going to happen sooner or later with john stealing his girl....


but to the point of the thread.. i feel more or less like it brought more heat on eve and cena than it would on ryder.. ryder was mad if someone messed with his girl, this has happened a few times where the guy that loves the girl gets mad and is the face in the story-line... such as matt hardy with the whole edge and lita feud

 

[1TheGreatOne1]

WWE are trying to make Zack into a babyface that how I see it. This whole feud everything bad happens to him so the audience will be on his side.
This isn't about Cena really they're making Cena out to be this asshole who dragged Ryder into this feud in the first place..

He's gotten the shit beat outta him every week.
His girlfriend's a hoe.
His best friend is a traitor who almost beat him tonight and stole his girl.

I'd be surprised if WWE turn Ryder heel since he's got a lot of support tonight and he still sells a lot of merchandise.

 

[JDtheDrunk]

Eve Torres is obviously the one turning heel here. She will be revealed as being involved with Kane the whole time playing Ryder and Cena.

At any rate, I laughed at this whole segment. As soon as Eve kissed Cena, I started chuckling, knowing full well they were going to show that Ryder was watching the whole time.

 

[OneTooManyPunts]

At this point, I think Ryder is in a pretty precarious situation. WWE has pretty much done everything in their power to take the wind out of the Ryder character's sails, to the point where he's literally and figuratively become a punching bag.

Given that he's been thrown off the stage..what, 3 times now, chokeslammed off a loading dock, had his gf stolen, and essentially made to look pathetic, I don't know if a heel turn is the way to go.

The biggest issue is that despite the fact that WWE has basically used him as a crash test dummy as of late, they've built him up as a sympathetic character. Turning someone heel while they are still very much soaking in the sympathy of their fan base makes for bad timing. Also along the lines of bad timing, would be the idea of the heel turn coming against Cena. This whole 'Embrace The Hate' storyline is going to be finishing up at EC, and that means we will soon be full steam ahead in the Rock/Cena program build up. A Ryder heel turn would mean creating some sort of program between he and Cena, and I don't see any way in which WWE would want to insert Ryder anywhere near the biggest main event and storyline in recent WWE history. Doing so would not only incidentally bury Ryder, but devalue any sort of heel push.

Could Ryder turn on Cena for the 'Embrace The Hate' storyline? Sure, but it doesn't have to mean a full fledged heel turn. If anything, it would be better to use it simply to separate the the two characters, and to allow Ryder to begin a renewed babyface push without Cena making the save for him every week.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Yeah, my first thought was that Kane's "embrace the hate" was gonna rub off onto Zack Ryder instead of Cena embracing it. Especially after Eve kissed Cena, I thought Ryder's gonna be pissed and possibly turn heel. Who knows? Anyway, did anyone else think it was hilarious when Kane launched Ryder off the stage. I literally LOL'd. In fact, I laughed every time Kane did something to Ryder. Maybe I'm just a sick person. Yeah, I always root for the killer in horror movies as well.

No you're definitely not the only one, that was hysterical. I was hoping Kane would follow up by Chokeslamming him about a dozen times, then beating him bloody.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Now some of us have been convolving together in our putting down of Ryder's goofiness and the fact that he is one-dimensional or what not. Such Ryder detractors have admitted that he very much should be lauded for getting himself over but have pointed fingers as to how far his Long Island upstart character will last.


These few weeks, WWE has taken a new road and given Zack the platform to showcase, a more human side if you will. This week, and how much I have seen of it, Ryder was great as the hurt lover confronting Cena.

I credit WWE for giving him the chance

a) to not wear out his goofy original character

b) in a storyline with the biggest dog

Conspiracy-mongers will say he was prepped to fail in this storyline with Eve and Cena and Kane, but to be honest, it took a very good turn this week. And everyone is playing there role very well, especially Ryder.


So words people, words on Ryder's new dimension as the hurt, crippled lover. Let's hear'em.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Ryder is not turning heel. All they are trying to do is show a little tension between him and Cena to help make the match against Kane more interesting. Ryder needs to remain a face. Why turn him now? It would make no sense. His merchandise is selling very well and he's becoming popular. All this was meant to do was create tension, the two of them might argue backstage some, only for Ryder to be back on the same side as Cena again in the end. Ryder can be frustrated with Cena and Eve without having to turn heel. Faces have emotions other than happiness or sadness. They can feel anger and disappointment, which is what Ryder felt.

Why can't it be Eve who is turning heel here? She could be fed up at Ryder for not saving her from Kane, and led Cena on to create the tension herself. No, wait, that would mean WWE actually put forth effort on developing a divas's character. Never mind. Seriously though, one tiny little hint and suddenly everyone thinks Ryder is turning heel? Come on, guys. Not gonna happen. Cena's still going to defeat Kane, Ryder's likely going to help him, and both are staying faces. For now anyway. If Ryder does turn heel, I will admit I was wrong, but I highly doubt it is happening anytime soon.

 

[Headman]

Eve is really Katie Vick living under an assumed name. She faked her death to get away from Kane, but now she's realized that Kane is right for her and has helped him toy with the emotions of Ryder and play him and Cena against eachother.

lol yeah right, but I would mark the hell out if she was.

 

[MayorMcCheese]

Well I can say one thing, Cena kissing Eve elicited a real reaction from me.

We have all been there, where the girl we like/want and you work hard to get, basically ditches you for "superman" or this case, SuperCena, who once again came to the rescue.

It made me hate Cena even more and I am hoping Zack returns soon to feud with Heel Cena....this is where it's going, Cena is going heel either before, or after WM it wont be your typical heel Cena will keep being involved in situations where he looks like a douchebag, while trying to play hero.

 

[Larry]

In response to the OP, not a chance. Zack Ryder isn't turning heel any more than Cena is. I think it's been made pretty clear the coveted "Cena Heel Turn" is never going to happen. That's what this whole storyline is basically about, and Zack Ryder is merely a catalyst in the story. It's not about him, it's not about him turning heel somehow. It's about John Cena selling what's on the T-shirt he wears, that he will Rise Above Hate.

 

[berlinbrawler]

I'm not surprised at all that so many of the Internet fans that made Zack Ryder a big deal are now turning on him. It's actually quite normal. The support and sympathy an underdog gets for being an underdog wavers as soon as he stops being an underdog. Zack stopped being an underdog and now everyone's like: "Well, he only got big because we gave him the special treatment, but is he really talented? Screw him!"

I actually think Ryder is going in a good direction.
He was a goofball jobber. As such he arguably became the WWE's most popular performer for a while. So now the people forced the WWE's hands in that they need to push a guy whom they previously portrayed as being unable to beat his grandmother. A transition is in order. So they threw him in with the sharks and as would have to be expected he ended up in a wheelchair.
But that's a good thing, because storyline-wise this can function as a wake up call for Ryder. He will return to the ring eventually, not with a "yay, I'm finally on TV"-attitude, but with a much stronger motivation: revenge.

Ryder vs Kane at Wrestlemania. Win or lose, there's the ticket to elevate Ryder to a more serious competitor.

On the question on whether Ryder really has got "it" - only time will tell. He's got the tools. Unique moveset, catchphrases, charisma. And perhaps most importantly: If there's one kid in the entire roaster who really wants it, it's him. When he realized he was going nowhere in WWE he went all in and made his Youtube show with the idea being this will either safe his career or get him fired. That actually speaks volumes about him.

 

[NegativeFeedback]

The thing is that on numerous DVDs, interviews and WWE programming such as Tough Enough, John Cena has mentioned that he is happily married. So why the hell would they have an Eve/Cena make out session on Raw? Forget about hurting Ryder's feelings, what about John's WIFE?! The "members of the CeNation" know he's married, the typical fan knows he's married, and all of the IWC know he's married.

This was very silly. At least when Triple H would get blowjobs in the parking lot, it was still kayfabe that Triple H and Stephanie had divorced. John Cena's marriage has been mentioned in kayfabe, so unless they announce on Raw that he divorced a few months ago, he is going to look like a cheating bastard to all the fans.

But above all, I'm loving the turn with Zack's character. I want to see him try and take down Cena. Any loss to Cena will just make Cena look worse. If there was any storyline to turn Cena heel, this could be IT. The crowd is firmly behind Ryder and firmly against Cena.

And Eve looks like a ****. No other way to say it. I'm thinking WWE is remembering that women do help make for good storylines. Remember Randy, Hogan and Elisabeth? Christian, Jericho and Trish? Matt, Edge and Lita? These were good programs and WWE is smart in using AJ and Eve to help the main feuds of their brands. AJ has made Daniel Bryan infinitely more interesting and Eve has made Zack Ryder even more loved by the fans.

Now that valets are back, can't wait to see the return of the managers!

 

[TheEraOfAwesomeIsHere126]

I don't know if we'll see Ryder turn heel but tonight did make me wonder if tonight's Raw has far reaching applications for Ryder's character overall.

While it's logically not really Cena's fault, Ryder's life has been turned into a living hell over the past few months. He's been attacked and severely injured by Kane due to Kane's near obsession with bringing out Cena's dark side. It looked as though Ryder might blame Cena for all of this. After all, when you're in a lot of pain, there's a large amount of frustration involved and you sometimes tend to lash out in order to blame someone or something. Tonight, however, Cena was in a passionate embrace with Eve, nice work if you can get it. So not only is Ryder's career been decimated due, at least in some degree, to his friendship with Cena but he catches Cena with the girl that he's crazy about. While the "heat of the moment" and "emotions were wild & running high" explanations are again logical, it's also logical for Ryder to be seriously cheesed off and hurt. He was further hurt tonight after Kane damn near launched him into outer space by pushing him off the stage to close out the show. All could be good indicators of a future heel turn, but I don't think they'll go that route.

Ryder, if anything, came off tonight as more sympathetic in the eyes of fans than he's ever been. He's been hurt physically, he gets hurt physically some more and then the girl he's wild about shoves her tongue down another guy's throat before telling him that she's sorry and that she only wants to be "friends". A kicked puppy couldn't invoke more sympathy than that. With Kane attacking him again, I don't think Ryder will be much of a factor for a while physically either. Since this has all started, WWE has been portraying Ryder in a more serious light, including a guy with heart & guts, and I'm hoping that they'll keep that going when he returns. It'll be good for him in the long run I think.

It's natural for Ryder to want to get even in a situation like this but he's pretty powerless to do so. He's "injured" so he can't fight Cena but there's another way to do it. What if Ryder makes a surprise appearance at WrestleMania and winds up costing Cena his match against The Rock? That would really stick in Cena's craw as it's definitely the top thing on his mind. Cena wrestling in one of the most anticipated matches in WWE history and being cost that match, much to the delight of soooooo many fans that will be in attendence in Miami, could be that one last thing that ultimately pushes Cena into a fully fledged heel. The thought of the WWE Universe celebrating him losing, especially a loss brought about by Zack Ryder, could finally be a sign for Cena that the fans have truly "turned" on him.

Wow what a creative idea. a great way of not making Cena look weak in the main event of mania and finally turning Cena heel. I hadn't thought of that before. Great idea

I don't think this was Ryder turning heel it was just a way to get more fans to turn against Cena. he stole he's girl, and now has got Ryder assaulted 3 times AND almost did it himself. I think ryder may have involvement in the match at EC but Eve definately will and i think Eve will turn heel she was getting booed even when she came out to help Zack.

I loved the ending to raw this week gives alot of questions about Zack, Eve and Cena but the sad thing is this all ends sunday

 

[mrfantastic111]

Cena and Eve's kiss was probably the only convincing acting that I've seen from those two in awhile. Not to say that they're bad, but usually what they do comes off as quite cheesy, but this week it was emotional and had impact on a whole new level from what we're used to seeing from Cena.

The beautiful part of all of this, was that it showed that even Cena has his flaws and made him seem vulnerable, but made Zack look like he had a huge set of balls, taking on the biggest dog in the yard, even when Zack had a 'broken back'. Cena/Kane looked at first as if it was going to be a typical 'I hate you so I attacked you' kind of feud, but it's developed into something quite intriguing, so intriguing this week that I was really interested in Cena's direction for the first time in a LONG time.

Anyway, not to forget Ryder, but crippled or not, the guy looked like a friggen superstar this week. He showed his balls, took an emotional beat down, showed his balls again and then took a physical beat down. He is the real underdog of pro-wrestling right now, more so then anyone else has been for a long, long, long time. The lasting moment in my head of RAW when I recap it is Zack getting into the face of Cena. Although 'injured', the guy seemed actually tough for the first time in a LONG time. I think the WWE has realised that he's better as an underdog then a champion at the moment, which is why they've put him in so many low-point predicaments. This is excellent because it's still the beginning of 2012, so Zack has all year to rise above the adversity and show why he's so great as an underdog.

He's not the goofy guy anymore. Next step... Revenge!

 

[The Champ]

I agree with the general sentiment that Eve is, by far, the most likely of the three to turn heel.

I'm not really sure how they'll play it, but there's no way she can stay face after last night. She's basically Lita now, except that Ryder is way more over and a much better sympathetic character than Fatt Hardy ever was. Did anyone hear the heat she got when she came out in the final segment? I'd say that was the most heat a non-Vickie diva has gotten in over five years.

Obviously she and Ryder are not ending up happily ever after, and the only other real possibility was for her to screw him over and turn heel. They essentially committed to going with the latter last night, as she's already screwed him over and some type of formal heel turn is all that's left.

 

[Ryberg]

I was thinking when Ryder came out to slap Cena, AWESOME here we go Ryder's embracing the hate! But the more I think about it the more I think they are just trying to fool every one into thinking Cena will embrace the hate.

I mean wasn't the feud with Cane supposed to make every one love Cena again? I felt it was their lame attempt to make fans love him again. However all it's done is make fans hate him more. lol How much longer is VMK going to listen to the boos and ignore them.

I was SHOCKED Ryder didn't rip Cena about Hustle, Loyalty and Respect as all he is a Hustler with no RESPECT or Loyalty to anyone. I mean so far in the few month story line Cena has cost Zack the belt and beatings. Hopefully they're building up to a Ryder/Cena match. I hope Ryder comes down and beats Cena at the PPV.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Well I can say one thing, Cena kissing Eve elicited a real reaction from me.

Me too, although the biggest surprise is that Eve initiated the kiss, not Cena. I didn't expect that at all.....and I love when they give us what we don't expect.

The thing is, I don't think they're doing anything with Zack Ryder's character as a result of this program, nor is Eve the target. It's Cena, all the way. Creative is slowly turning him bad, using these small steps to have Kane help Cena to embrace the hate, which Kane was bragging about last night.

Cena was placed in a very human situation; he was caught kissing his friend's girl, yet it wasn't his fault; he was the innocent victim of happenstance. In the brief vignette, we didn't see Zack cast any blame on Eve, did we? No, he sees Cena 100% at fault, which is probably how it would go down in real life.

In a court of law, an attorney questioning a witness insists on a "yes or no" answer. Yet, we know that in real life, the true answer isn't always "yes or no." Often, it's "Yes, but...." or "No, but....." In this case, Cena is claiming: "Yes, I kissed her, but....."

Cena is turning bad and they're doing a brilliant job of bringing it about. For wrestling fans who are constantly complaining that WWE doesn't let storylines play out, I give you this one to illustrate that they often do. Yes, it could be that just when we think Cena has gone over the edge toward evil, he turns the tables and comes up shining. Who knows?

Either way, I don't see this scenario as anything that truly benefits or hurts Zack Ryder.....he's just the catalyst towards what happens with Cena.

 

[Nick Black]

HAHA. "The Slap Heard 'Round the World!"

I feel like the crowd cheered Ryder for that and booed Cena for not kicking his ass. Ryder wouldn't get over as a heel. It just wouldn't happen. He's a born face. If WWE makes a successful heel our of Ryder I'll be beyond astonished. I just don't see him as a buyable heel anytime soon.

 

[TheJujuMan]

At the show, the audience really thought Cena was going to go full heel, after the slap. Some of the loudest boos for anyone last night were for Cena, especially after he kissed Eve or when he didn't hit Ryder!

Peace Out
Juju