NXT is a Failure

[Remy LaCroix]

Can't quote, so I'm attacking random posts.

Is it more successful by ratings? Hell no, cuz WWE fans are an odd bunch who rather watch Raw over Smackdown, NXT and Superstars. People don't pay to see NXT, they pay to see Smackdown. Ratings don't lie. Speaking of that, NXT ratings didn't spike one bit after the first Nexus attack. You know why? Only smarks watch NXT, or a majority of the viewers are smarks and the rest are dedicated fans, which include smarks.

By the way, the Impact comparison is a cop-out. If this thread was created by someone unrelated to TNA, it wouldn't have been brought up. The fact that WWE got rid of ECW and NXT ratings are barely doing any better shows that it's just getting by. You also have to realize the positions WWE and TNA are in. You have an empire versus a... um, TNA. If the shows are on-par, it seems like a problem for WWE, don't ya think?

 

[Remy LaCroix]

PS3 makes me post twice.

HBKevin had it right with his post. They used the 1st season rookies in an angle, but they will probably be split soon after and, well, only a select few have a chance at staying afloat. By being united, they are keeping each other on life support, with Barrett being their lifeline.

Long-term, only a few rookies will make it. Is that success? Yes. At the cost of maybe half of 'em? Yeah. Is it a success in the ratings? Not at all. Being the highest-rated show on SyFy isn't something to boast about. That tells you something about the WWE fans. They're also quiet during NXT too.

I guess it depends on how you see it.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I understand that. But, the fact remains that you reference NXT's ratings as one portion of your argument that it has failed. By doing that, you made ratings germaine to the argument. To then say "NXT's ratings suck and therefore they failed" on one hand (I know, a gross oversimplification of your argument) and then say "TNA's ratings which are basically the same are irrelevant" seems a tad contradictory. Either the ratings of a show indicate (to some degree) it's level of success or they don't.

I know I am harping on one aspect of your argument but it just seems to me that a lot of the TNA fans put down WWE programming for one reason or another and then say it isn't appropriate to use the same criteria when judging the TNA product. And yes, I do understand that your post wasn't about whether NXT was better or worse than TNA Impact!

It's not contradictory, as I'm not using the competition as the basis for my argument. Yes, from one angle you can view NXT as a success because of the failure of TNA to surpass their ability to draw ratings, but again I contend that you are comparing apples to oranges based solely on the fact they are both fruits (wrestling programs). The bottom line still stands – NXT has failed to surpass the ratings of it's predecessor which was deemed a failure for failing to garner ratings worthy of remaining in place. How in the name of all that is logical can this be considered a success, regardless of what the program was able to create in Nexus, who also failed to increase ratings for NXT themselves?

 

[MisterRob]

No, not because it's a WWE product, though judging from the quality of their alternative programming, that's hardly surprising at the moment – it's because it's a gag. NXT, in it's entirety, is a gag...

The popularity of the UFC in the US skyrocketed in recent years, and as a result, Dana White and the UFC created a show on SpikeTV that helped to spark, retain, regain and garner new energy for the sport when they put the finishing touches on their reality-based program The Ultimate Fighter. Is it any wonder the UFC's popularity coincides with the popularity of The Ultimate Fighter? Absolutely not, because just like the fights are based in reality, so too is the show in that it houses real life fighters going through real life training and fighting in real life fights – both in the ring, as well as out of it. In a nutshell, the drama of the show, is real. That's something NXT failed to capitalize on from it's inception.

The drama on NXT isn't based in reality at all. It's based in a childish and incredibly cartoonish false-reality where carrying beer kegs around a ring is considered a viable athletic competition under which the ability of a professional wrestler is graded – not his mic skills, not his mat skills, not his ability to win or lose matches, either. No, rather, on his "ability" to carry a beer keg... around a ring.

Instead of scripting this show (as obviously, wrestling is scripted) in a matter to determine a winner by allowing the contestants to show their own personalities through triumphs and tribulations, the program is centered around "pros", which often drowns out any potential of the "rookies" to actually shine – even in the event they'd be eliminated eventually, anyway. Even TUF doesn't do this – the fighters on that program instead of placed on teams, and each team is lead by a single pro. Had each individual fighter had his own professional fighter, the show would likely have flopped as a result, just as NXT is doing right now.

NXT is a failure. An absolute failure, and that's made no more evident than by the fact that it garners the exact same ratings on SyFy that WWECW pulled in, and WWECW was considered a failure (enough) by management to cut ties with it's programming to give way for NXT, so what does that say for NXT?

I understand the desire to cash in on the reality TV concept, and while on paper the concept of this show was a success, in reality, it fell far short of the bar in my opinion.

It's a shame, too – guys like Alex Riley, Kaval, Wade Barrett, etc. don't need this type of incredibly cheesy, incredibly gimmicky introduction into the world of pro-wrestling at all – all they needed was a reason to exist, and if WWE creative couldn't possibly think of one for any of them, I have no idea what that says for WWE creative other than "Wow".

Thoughts on NXT, it's past success and it's future potential?

How in the hell is NXT a failure on any level? Your WWE hate aside, you're full of shit. NXT is something entirely different and unique from the rest of WWE programming, where ECW was nothing but a lesser brand done in the same style as the other brands above it. So for being a different format alone then anything else the WWE's doing it's a success in that.

NXT is being used to not only allow the WWE universe to get a glimpse of these new talents but to become familiar with them so they can go on to the actual WWE brands RAW and Smackdown without being sheer unknowns to the fans and possibly even going in with some momentum. That's the purpose of NXT, and if you're claiming that's been a failure then you're clueless. Why? Because the Nexus are the top heels on RAW right now and are drawing in ratings for the WWE and they're entirely based around what developed from NXT. Entirely. So in that NXT season 1 and the show in general was a huge success because it's already ushered in 7 new talents into WWE that are over and making an impact on television every week.

Are you talking about based on ratings NXT is a failure? You can't be because they're doing quite well in the ratings. In fact, consisting of a show based entirely around unknown rookies, they're garnering the SAME ratings as TNA Impact every week. If that's not a success, considering the roster and all the other variables that Impact has I can't possibly see what would be a success. Just as Impact is one of the highest rated shows on Spike, NXT is clearly one of the higher level shows on SyFy, and it's in a fine position in terms of those ratings. Comparing NXT to RAW's ratings would be utterly ridiculous because RAW's one of the top rated shows on a far higher level then most television shows on any network.

So on every single level you're entirely wrong.

 

[KnowYoRole]

It's Damn Real, the ultimate TNA mark. NXT isn't a failure, it's a success because so far it has succeeded in it's purpose: exposing the young stars from FCW so they can be ushered into the main rosters. You should have learned that from season one of NXT. Sure only a few rookies were actually really good, but WWE managed to find a way to get all of them onto the main roster, by way of the Nexus storyline, you know, the best and hottest storyline in wrestling today. And we're seeing tremendous progress in the rookies. Many people thought tarver and sheffield were absolute shit in NXT, but now that they're in Nexus, next to wade barrett they're the two most outstanding members of the group. NXT season one was a success in that it made stars out of all those rookies.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

How in the hell is NXT a failure on any level?

How many times do I have to explain this? NXT was supposed to be more successful than ECW, which WWE management saw as a failing product. Said failing product and NXT garner the exact same ratings on a week-to-week basis, so either there's something else going on here, or NXT simply isn't as great a show as it's made out to be, and far from the success it's touted as as it fails to even surpass the programming the WWE cancelled in place of it.

Your WWE hate aside, you're full of shit. NXT is something entirely different and unique from the rest of WWE programming, where ECW was nothing but a lesser brand done in the same style as the other brands above it. So for being a different format alone then anything else the WWE's doing it's a success in that.

Something entirely different and unique that fails to surpass it's failure of an incumbent – hence, failure.

NXT is being used to not only allow the WWE universe to get a glimpse of these new talents but to become familiar with them so they can go on to the actual WWE brands RAW and Smackdown without being sheer unknowns to the fans and possibly even going in with some momentum. That's the purpose of NXT, and if you're claiming that's been a failure then you're clueless. Why? Because the Nexus are the top heels on RAW right now and are drawing in ratings for the WWE and they're entirely based around what developed from NXT. Entirely. So in that NXT season 1 and the show in general was a huge success because it's already ushered in 7 new talents into WWE that are over and making an impact on television every week.

And any/all of those new "talents" (I wont' even get into how ridiculous an idea it is to call half the Nexus talented) are masked, as a result, of their failures and inefficiencies because they're part of a larger story that covers up their short-comings. What happens when Nexus ends? I wonder how many of these so-called "talents" are going to have a career actually worth more than pigs spit who aren't named Barrett? My guess? One.

RAW, by the way, I guarantee you would draw the exact same ratings every week without the Nexus that it does with them. They've done nothing to increase ratings the way the nWo did to WCW a decade ago, so again, how can this be half the success it's touted to be?

Are you talking about based on ratings NXT is a failure? You can't be because they're doing quite well in the ratings. In fact, consisting of a show based entirely around unknown rookies, they're garnering the SAME ratings as TNA Impact every week. If that's not a success, considering the roster and all the other variables that Impact has I can't possibly see what would be a success. Just as Impact is one of the highest rated shows on Spike, NXT is clearly one of the higher level shows on SyFy, and it's in a fine position in terms of those ratings. Comparing NXT to RAW's ratings would be utterly ridiculous because RAW's one of the top rated shows on a far higher level then most television shows on any network.

See the first response I gave you.

--

It's Damn Real, the ultimate TNA mark. NXT isn't a failure, it's a success because so far it has succeeded in it's purpose: exposing the young stars from FCW so they can be ushered into the main rosters. You should have learned that from season one of NXT. Sure only a few rookies were actually really good, but WWE managed to find a way to get all of them onto the main roster, by way of the Nexus storyline, you know, the best and hottest storyline in wrestling today. And we're seeing tremendous progress in the rookies. Many people thought tarver and sheffield were absolute shit in NXT, but now that they're in Nexus, next to wade barrett they're the two most outstanding members of the group. NXT season one was a success in that it made stars out of all those rookies.

Fuck does me loving TNA have anything to do with this? Typical ad hominem insult to precede a typical reply I've answered numerous times in this thread. Glad you got a post out of it, though.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

When NXT first started, I was under the impression that they wanted to create the next breakout "star". The whole point of the show was for one rookie to win and Wade Barrett did that. Then they came up with the Nexus angle which has been great so far. What this angle has done is give the other members exposure. If even one of the other six Nexus guys gets a WWE contract and does well within the next couple of years, than NXT hasn't been a failure because it already served its intended purpose.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

When NXT first started, I was under the impression that they wanted to create the next breakout "star". The whole point of the show was for one rookie to win and Wade Barrett did that. Then they came up with the Nexus angle which has been great so far. What this angle has done is give the other members exposure. If even one of the other six Nexus guys gets a WWE contract and does well within the next couple of years, than NXT hasn't been a failure because it already served its intended purpose.

Correct, which is to say the show succeeded in an aspect, but the program itself has failed to (1) garner an increase in ratings from it's inception in that there's no real difference between the ratings from season one to season two, and (2) failed to capitalize on the ratings that WWECW – considered a failure – garnered in it's final days.

 

[MisterRob]

How many times do I have to explain this? NXT was supposed to be more successful than ECW, which WWE management saw as a failing product. Said failing product and NXT garner the exact same ratings on a week-to-week basis, so either there's something else going on here, or NXT simply isn't as great a show as it's made out to be, and far from the success it's touted as as it fails to even surpass the programming the WWE cancelled in place of it.

ECW's ratings were consistantly dropping and they were in fact around the .8's near its end, were they not? NXT's ratings have actually been doing the opposite and growing. Regardless, though, NXT's success or failure can't be measured solely on ratings (which prove it's actually doing just fine) because there's more in the purpose of NXT then JUST ratings.

Something entirely different and unique that fails to surpass it's failure of an incumbent – hence, failure.

Since when did WWE ever say they thought ECW was a failure and were implementing NXT to rise far and above beyond what ECW was before it?

And any/all of those new "talents" (I wont' even get into how ridiculous an idea it is to call half the Nexus talented) are masked, as a result, of their failures and inefficiencies because they're part of a larger story that covers up their short-comings. What happens when Nexus ends? I wonder how many of these so-called "talents" are going to have a career actually worth more than pigs spit who aren't named Barrett? My guess? One.

Who gives a shit? The Nexus is one entity right now, and that 'entity' is a draw and HAS garnered ratings for the WWE. RAW just got a 3.5 this week, which is definitely up from previous weeks and months. So clearly Nexus, consisting of all those involved (because you wouldn't have Nexus otherwise) is a success and a benefit to WWE right now. What's going to happen in the future when Nexus is over? Who knows, who cares, that's not important to this argument. You can't say one way or the other whose going to break out and be a star so making wild guesses is silly and adds no credibility to your argument.

We're talking about the NOW. And in the now, Nexus is a success and a draw for RAW.

RAW, by the way, I guarantee you would draw the exact same ratings every week without the Nexus that it does with them. They've done nothing to increase ratings the way the nWo did to WCW a decade ago, so again, how can this be half the success it's touted to be?

Their ratings have already improved from what they were so you can't guarantee shit. And comparing Nexus to the nWo is ridiculous. The nWo were top stars and had arguably the biggest draw in the history of the business in their ranks, Nexus is a bunch of unknown talents. The fact they've improved ratings and are gaining so much attention from the fans and the wrestling universe is a testament to how successful they and their angle is right now.

See the first response I gave you.

Did you ever think WWE cancelled ECW because it had run it's course and they felt like the format to NXT would be far more beneficial long term then ECW's brand was? All you have to go by is one "season" of NXT compared to years of the ECW brand, and so far that one season of NXT has been very successful, and the second season still in progress has the potential to offer several promising and future stars.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

ECW's ratings were consistantly dropping and they were in fact around the .8's near its end, were they not? NXT's ratings have actually been doing the opposite and growing. Regardless, though, NXT's success or failure can't be measured solely on ratings (which prove it's actually doing just fine) because there's more in the purpose of NXT then JUST ratings.

NXT's ratings have been consistently around the 1.0 mark – just .2 above the .8's they were getting with WWECW. Rather marginal "increase" if any at all.

Since when did WWE ever say they thought ECW was a failure and were implementing NXT to rise far and above beyond what ECW was before it?

No one said they thought it was. It's implied in the fact it was cancelled.

Who gives a shit? The Nexus is one entity right now, and that 'entity' is a draw and HAS garnered ratings for the WWE. RAW just got a 3.5 this week, which is definitely up from previous weeks and months. So clearly Nexus, consisting of all those involved (because you wouldn't have Nexus otherwise) is a success and a benefit to WWE right now. What's going to happen in the future when Nexus is over? Who knows, who cares, that's not important to this argument. You can't say one way or the other whose going to break out and be a star so making wild guesses is silly and adds no credibility to your argument.

Not it isn't. RAW has hovered in the 3.0's for half a year now. They were garnering 3's before Nexus and they're garnering 3's since them, too. Hardly a success rate.

Did you ever think WWE cancelled ECW because it had run it's course and they felt like the format to NXT would be far more beneficial long term then ECW's brand was? All you have to go by is one "season" of NXT compared to years of the ECW brand, and so far that one season of NXT has been very successful, and the second season still in progress has the potential to offer several promising and future stars.

So would simply debuting them the traditional way –*in a match, after vignettes where they don't have to degrade themselves by partaking in half the bullshit they're forced to when competing on NXT.

 

[joeberg]

I don't really remember them ever acknowledging, except for a few rare occasions, the previous accomplishments of people that they got from WCW back in the day. So why should it be any different with the NXT guys? So Danielson and Kaval have wrestled all over the world in front of thousands already. So what? To the average WWE fan, that doesn't mean anything. So why bring it up? I don't see how it's going to help them get over better.

They tried the reality show format years ago with Tough Enough. Maven is now selling random shit on the Home Shopping Network and I don't even remember the chick's name nor do I have a clue what happened to her. Josh Matthews is the biggest star that ever came from that which isn't saying much.

I like that NXT is something different than what we see on Raw & SmackDown. I do think there should be more of a gap between seasons though. At least a month or so to give anyone sticking around from the previous season time to establish themselves on one of the main shows and perhaps generate some interest in the next group. They can't do a Nexus style angle with each group so there needs to be time for those guys to set themselves apart once they get called up.

 

[MisterRob]

NXT's ratings have been consistently around the 1.0 mark – just .2 above the .8's they were getting with WWECW. Rather marginal "increase" if any at all.

Compared to what, Impact's ratings increases over the last 8 YEARS?

Not even RAW decreases or increases more then .2s usually so why do you expect NXT to have such huge increases when RAW and Impact never do?

No one said they thought it was. It's implied in the fact it was cancelled.

And as I said before, did you ever think they cancelled ECW solely because it had run it's course and they believe NXT is a better platform and format to introduce and develop their new talent before introducing them into the main brands?

Not it isn't. RAW has hovered in the 3.0's for half a year now. They were garnering 3's before Nexus and they're garnering 3's since them, too. Hardly a success rate.

There IS a difference. You can deny it all you want but the Nexus have had an impact on ratings and have garnered more interest for the product right now. Shame TNA can't say the same thing with what they've been running with.

So would simply debuting them the traditional way –*in a match, after vignettes where they don't have to degrade themselves by partaking in half the bullshit they're forced to when competing on NXT.

That's your opinion and it certainly does nothing to prove NXT is anything even remotely close to a failure. Do you even watch NXT? These competitions, which is the only thing you seem to be referencing when it comes to NXT, are 10% of the entire season compared to matches, other segments, etc, that make up the whole shows.

Instead of video packages for a few weeks, one small segment every show, NXT allows these new talents to have matches and segments on every show for MONTHS building and developing their characters and showing the fans what they have, long before they even reach the main brands. How is that a worse platform to use? Those fans who DO watch NXT then have an idea and an opinion already on the talents when they come up to the main brands, which the "rookies" can then build from.. and those fans who don't watch NXT might be blank canvases for the "rookies" to introduce themselves to, but they've also just had MONTHS to further hone their skills and their characters.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Compared to what, Impact's ratings increases over the last 8 YEARS?

Not even RAW decreases or increases more then .2s usually so why do you expect NXT to have such huge increases when RAW and Impact never do?





And as I said before, did you ever think they cancelled ECW solely because it had run it's course and they believe NXT is a better platform and format to introduce and develop their new talent before introducing them into the main brands?

Oh, I don't know – maybe because it was touted as "ground-breaking" and the "next big thing"? You'd figure a "big thing" of any type would actually be big – not struggling to marginally "beat" the incumbent WWECW.

There IS a difference. You can deny it all you want but the Nexus have had an impact on ratings and have garnered more interest for the product right now.

A marginal impact, yes – hardly worth touting as something as great as they are not. I'm pretty sure something as big as this is chalked up to be would have had a much bigger effect on ratings.

Shame TNA can't say the same thing.

Non sequitur.

That's your opinion and it certainly does nothing to prove NXT is anything even remotely close to a failure. Do you even watch NXT? These competitions, which is the only thing you seem to be referencing when it comes to NXT, are 10% of the entire season compared to matches, other segments, etc.

I gave up on NXT four weeks ago. I gave Season 1 a chance and watched almost every episode, despite being incredibly bored by it, and Season 2 has been a total failure to the point it made me stop watching. I noticed the same failures in Season 2 that I saw in Season 1 – namely too much focus on the pros and too many ridiculous competitions that are somehow supposed to be an indication of the ability of these guys as pro-wreslters.

Instead of video packages for a few weeks, one small segment every show, NXT allows these new talents to have matches and segments on every show for MONTHS building and developing their characters and showing the fans what they have, long before they even reach the main brands. How is that a worse platform to use?

That'll be determined in the years to come when we can look back and see just how many of these so-called stars actually become them. I have serious doubts.

 

[Burnout]

NXT is not in failure. NXT is the perfect concept to create new superstars. On NXT 8 rookies get an hour to showcase their abilities where as on RAW they'd get what? 5 minuets! NXT showcases the new talents in all aspects. Take a look at these challenges. People go off and say that all the challenges are stupid yet they all showcase a new wrestlers qualities :
*Promo challenge- Mic skills
*obstacle course- speed, agility
*Keg carry- strength, speed
Now tell me how thats not building a star, and thats without mentioning any matches!

NXT mightn't get the highest rating's but the consistenty of them is really good. The show is more succesful than the WWECW of 2009 and 2010. It has generated tons of intrest on the internet. It created arguably the hottest thing in wrestling at the moment in the Nexus. As of late WWE are building their younger stars and NXT is helping this prpcess heaps. Which is better IDR, a rookie debuting on raw as a complete knowbody, or debuting after twelve weeks of exposure on NXT so they'd allready be over?

In summary, NXT is not a failure, it builds new stars which is what it set out to do !

 

[It's Damn Real!]

NXT mightn't get the highest rating's but the consistenty of them is really good. The show is more succesful than the WWECW of 2009 and 2010. It has generated tons of intrest on the internet. It created arguably the hottest thing in wrestling at the moment in the Nexus. As of late WWE are building their younger stars and NXT is helping this prpcess heaps. Which is better IDR, a rookie debuting on raw as a complete knowbody?

In summary, NXT is not a failure, it builds new stars which is what it set out to do !

No, what's better is a "rookie" debuting on one of the WWE's programs not called NXT and making the fans care about them in the same traditional route that other more successful stars before them were able to do.

All NXT does is mask their inefficiencies and their inabilities because the focus is on the group and not their pathetic lack of personality otherwise.

Would Skip Sheffield, that rockstar guy or Evan Bourne's cousin have ever made it without Nexus? Highly doubtful. Wanna know why? Because they're not good wrestling characters. They're mediocre talents with dial tone personalities who are only serving a placeholder purpose right now as lesser known (for a reason) members of an invasion stable, and aren't likely to amount to anything once it's over.

I'd also contend that NXT is not a prerequisite to creating stars, as stars create themselves through their fantastic personalities, just as they did before the days of NXT. Those without them are doomed to fail, unless of course they join Nexus, that is, in which case, they can work on borrowed time.

 

[Burnout]

No, what's better is a "rookie" debuting on one of the WWE's programs not called NXT and making the fans care about them in the same traditional route that other more successful stars before them were able to do.

yes, but with stacked rosters it is becoming increasingly hard to get over, look at drew mcIntyre, shoved down our throats via vince macmahon, and besides edited reactions, cant get a proper reaction on hisown. Yes, NXT is a cheap way of getting a rookie over, but without NXT these rookies would struggle to get over on raw or smackdown, reguardless of their personalities.

Would Skip Sheffield, that rockstar guy or Evan Bourne's cousin have ever made it without Nexus? Highly doubtful. Wanna know why? Because they're not good wrestling characters. They're mediocre talents with dial tone personalities who are only serving a placeholder purpose right now as lesser known (for a reason) members of an invasion stable, and aren't likely to amount to anything once it's over.

Skip sheffield: yes, unlikely he will amount to much after nexus but he could develp a charachter as vince likes his bigmen

Darren young: bland as potatoes, I agree, shudnt amount to much.

Justin gabriel:good wrestler, if he works on nerves and mic skills he is a future US champion
I admit there will be some rookies on NXT that wont amount to anything, but that is to be expected with the numbers, they cant use all their best rookies in the one season as we'd be left with a disausterous season 2.

I'd also contend that NXT is not a prerequisite to creating stars, as stars create themselves through their fantastic personalities, just as they did before the days of NXT. Those without them are doomed to fail, unless of course they join Nexus, that is, in which case, they can work on borrowed time.

Again with my stacked roster point, a rookie debuting on a main show would only get 5-10 minutes and whether or not thay have fantastic personalities it just isnt enough these days, and in time the rookies will be released because they cant garner intrest. So NXT just helps the process and on NXT the rookies develop personalities. Look at some of the personalities on NXT season 2, they would make a future without NXT but NXT is exposing them just to make sure we all know about them.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't see how NXT is a failure. I have a feeling that if TNA had come up with the concept for the show, had done the exact same thing, that it would have received immense praise from the TNA faithful. They'd have applauded TNA for thinking outside the box, for at least attempting to do something different.

As far as ratings go, NXT isn't exactly setting records. Truth is, I'd have been surprised if it had. The centerpiece for the show is to feature wrestlers that are complete unknowns to most WWE viewers. Also, it draws the same number of viewers that TNA does usually, so I don't see how many TNA cans could really give NXT grief over this with a straight face. It's to showcase some of what they can do, what they're capable of and to feature wrestlers that could possibly wind up big names. In short, it's just about everything that TNA needs to attempt but doesn't. I'm not saying that it's perfect nor that there aren't some places in which the WWE needs to improve upon.

I know that the concept of actually attempting to create new stars and generate young talent is something of a foreign one for TNA fans. After all, most of them are too busy living in the past along with TNA as it attempts to satisfy its unquenchable thirst for nostalgia rather than even attempt to move forward.

 

[Reddannihilation]

I don't see how NXT is a failure.

It's borderline identical to Tough Enough. It's also boring and was brought in to replace a show that was having roughly the same level of success. Also it's failed to generate major interest in itself despite the promotion, including taking the first group of contestants putting them on the flagship show and still not getting any crossover from RAW to NXT.

I have a feeling that if TNA had come up with the concept for the show, had done the exact same thing, that it would have received immense praise from the TNA faithful.

No it wouldn't, that's why they didn't. TNA pushes it's new wrestlers the standard way and that's why Pope Dinero went from wrestling Suicide and Consequences Creed to wrestling Angle and AJ. He developed a character, got over on his own merit. Anyway, aside from the fact that the OP likes TNA, what does TNA have to do with NXT?

They'd have applauded TNA for thinking outside the box, for at least attempting to do something different.

I sure as hell would not have applauded TNA for jobbing out a ROH star of the calibre of Bryan Danielson to guys like Khali and The Miz.

As far as ratings go, NXT isn't exactly setting records. Truth is, I'd have been surprised if it had. The centerpiece for the show is to feature wrestlers that are complete unknowns to most WWE viewers.

That's funny because I'd say the centerpiece of the show is mid-card wrestlers getting more face time while "mentoring" low-carders.

Also, it draws the same number of viewers that TNA does usually, so I don't see how many TNA cans could really give NXT grief over this with a straight face.

Again, this seems to be the only argument people can come up with, "Well, TNA isn't doing any better, so NXT is fine" last I checked the people saying NXT is a success are the same people who call TNA a failure, can't have it both ways. Except for one major factor, TNA iMPACT and TNA Xplosion are shows designed to showcase standard wrestling product. NXT is marketed as "The next evolution in sports entertainment" yet it's exactly the same as a product the WWE was running 9 years ago. Where's that evolution the tag line promises? Why is it that the previous show more or less accomplished the same goals and drew the same ratings. In fact, WWECW was home to Sheamus before he jumped to RAW. If we compare the rookies from season 1 of NXT to Sheamus, let's compare successess;

In his first month on RAW, Sheamus was the dominant member of a traditional Survivor series team, eliminating a veteran and an upper midcarder. By the end of the next month he was WWE champion. By comparison NXT season 1 ended months ago, none of them has won a belt and their first PPV match is in 2 weeks. Even the NXTblood's leader is nowhere near getting a title shot. So from where I'm standing the previous developmental brand has given the audience; several upper midcard and main event stars. CM Punk, Sheamus, John Morrison, The Miz, Evan Bourne, Kofi Kingston, etc. All of them worked on WWECW and each of them has gotten over with the crowd and have achieved individual accomplishments greater than the guys from NXT. Sheamus is the perfect example as he debuted the traditional way and was successful far quicker than the members of NXT.

It's to showcase some of what they can do, what they're capable of and to feature wrestlers that could possibly wind up big names.

Really? Because I don't remember the show being advertised as that.

In short, it's just about everything that TNA needs to attempt but doesn't. I'm not saying that it's perfect nor that there aren't some places in which the WWE needs to improve upon.

Is there any argument in favour of NXT that you can make that doesn't require you compare it to TNA? Becuase TNA is irrelevant to this thread.

I know that the concept of actually attempting to create new stars and generate young talent is something of a foreign one for TNA fans.

Seriously, can you make any argument in favour of NXT that doesn't require you compare it to TNA? Also say hi to Pope Dinero, Kazarian, Doug Williams, Rob Terry, Magnus, Jesse Neal, Beer Money and the MCMG's. I certainly do hate how those old guys I just listed are so old. I mean really that damn Alex Shelley, who does he think he is being 27 years old, there's some five year olds doing sentons on a trampoline, they're ready to be pushed right now!!!

After all, most of them are too busy living in the past along with TNA as it attempts to satisfy its unquenchable thirst for nostalgia rather than even attempt to move forward.

It really is sad how you're entire post defending NXT amounts to nothing more than a rant about TNA. As for TNA not moving forward, have you even been watching? Are their not currently 2 young tag teams made up of future stars feuding in a best of 5 series? Has there not been renewed focus placed on the X-division with their traditionalist champion declaring war on spot monkeys? Is AJ Styles not the TV Champion? Apparently all of those guys are too old for you. Instead we should see Generation Me, Ink Inc. Amazing Red and Matt Morgan team up and attack random people each week. That'll definitely be better than having them develop over time on their own

You know what the annoying thing is, this thread is about NXT failing at it's goals. Rather than argue that it's achieved it's goals the majority of the thread has devolved into people comparing the WWE to TNA. TNA is literally irrelevant to the OP. The statement was that NXT has failed it's goals, which it has; It hasn't managed to attain higher ratings than it's predecessor which was cancelled after it spent years falling from impressive ratings to terrible ratings. It's predecesor was able to provide what NXT is trying to provide (A breakout star) in less time and said star has greater longevity than the members of the NXT roster. On top of that it's predecessor had almost no cross promotion, whilst NXT's first season group is a stable on RAW yet NXT's ratings haven't risen significantly from their early days despite this promotion. Also none of the first season group has broken out as a major singles star, yet multiple WWECW alumni have. That to me says that NXT, as a replacement brand and as a developmental brand has not achieved the goals it set itself, therefore it is a failure, regardless of how well their ratings compare to a completely different product.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I actually find it amusing for people to come on here and suggest with a straight face that NXT has been a failure. Granted the only people to have done so are, for the most part, the TNA smarks who cannot give credit where credit is due for anything WWE. Their love of TNA makes them incapable of posting anything positive about anything which is pro-WWE.

NXT has actually been surprisingly successful, whether you like the format of the show or whether you don't, the bottom line has been thumbs up all the way. What has NXT done? It introduced Bryan Danielson into the WWE world. Now granted at the moment that does not appear to be a success, but I fully expect him back and NXT was his entry point into the WWE. Even if he doesn't come back, his departure won't be due to a failure on the part of NXT, it will be for reasons out of NXT's control which could have happened even if he was a member of the RAW or SD! roster.

It has fast tracked Michael Barrett into prominence. Some people would suggest that he would have gotten there anyway, maybe so. But he got there way faster and with far more impact than he otherwise would. And it gave the other six guys a quick push into a significant role on the flagship show. If WWE brings in 6 guys from developmental, or the indies, or TNA cast-offs, or whatever, how long does it typically take for them to establish themselves? A long time and some never do. These 6 guys are a prominent part of the second biggest PPV of the biggest wrestling promotion in the world, and that has happened because of NXT. Maybe they'll make it, maybe they won't, only time will tell, but they are there now and so far so good.

Best case scenario? Danielson returns and does what the IWC says he is capable of. Barrett becomes the superstar everyone says he will. And the other 6 guys, or at least some/most of them, become plausible mid-carders, or even enhancement talent which is a necessary component of the business as well. Worst case scenario? It is a case of short term success. Danielson doesn't return, Barrett fizzles out, and the other guys get released. I don't forsee this but even if this happens, at least they will have gotten this run, this opportunity, which is more than 6 newbies would have gotten on their own.

The same people who criticize NXT actually have the face to then come on and talk about how great the Hardcore Justice nostalgia show is going to be, which is incredibly ironic. Rather than elevating 8 new guys to a shot at future success, the ECW/EV2.0 thing elevates no one and goes nowhere. Best case scenario? A couple of successful weeks leading up to a one successful PPV before these guys disappear back into oblivion until their next trip down memory lane, because let's be honest, even if this PPV goes well, it has no future. Worst case scenario? A lacklustre couple of weeks of old fat guys trying to recapture their glory days, which really weren't that glorious to begin with, followed by a PPV which stinks and actually alienates more TNA fans than it attracts ECW fans.

Look TNA guys, I appreciate that you don't like WWE and therefore have to criticize it every chance you get. But at least try to be objective and logical in your criticism, otherwise it comes across as blind markdom.

 

[MisterRob]

No, what's better is a "rookie" debuting on one of the WWE's programs not called NXT and making the fans care about them in the same traditional route that other more successful stars before them were able to do.

Why is that better? Why is the traditional way its been done in the past mean it HAS to be done the same way now and there’s no room for trying something different or evolving the standards? Is that TNA’s problem? Because they’re trapped believing they have to do everything that’s been done before the same way it’s been done before and they just can’t grasp the concept of trying something “new”? I give the WWE praise for trying something different then the norm or what’s been done before, and the only way NXT could be a true failure would be if they were getting worse ratings then ECW was and actually going backwards, when they’re clearly not.

I don’t know how you expect a show based around rookies and unknowns to be pulling off greater ratings then shows that have proven and known talents and a lot more hype around them. Clearly you’re a bit off base.

All NXT does is mask their inefficiencies and their inabilities because the focus is on the group and not their pathetic lack of personality otherwise.

Who gives a shit? They’re a draw now. They’re bringing in ratings and attention NOW, how many times do I have to beat the fact into your head? Down the road what will happen is entirely unpredictable. For all you know 5 out of the 7 wrestlers in Nexus could become stars in the WWE. You DON’T KNOW.

Would Skip Sheffield, that rockstar guy or Evan Bourne's cousin have ever made it without Nexus? Highly doubtful. Wanna know why? Because they're not good wrestling characters. They're mediocre talents with dial tone personalities who are only serving a placeholder purpose right now as lesser known (for a reason) members of an invasion stable, and aren't likely to amount to anything once it's over.

You have no way of knowing whether any of this is true so deal with facts, please, if you’re going to argue NXT is a failure.

I'd also contend that NXT is not a prerequisite to creating stars, as stars create themselves through their fantastic personalities, just as they did before the days of NXT. Those without them are doomed to fail, unless of course they join Nexus, that is, in which case, they can work on borrowed time.

No, but NXT is the platform these stars have to create themselves! How hard is that to understand? Whether they start on NXT, whether they start in the traditional way that’s been done a thousand times before, if they can’t create themselves and be stars by their personalities and talents then it doesn’t matter how they’re introduced by the WWE.

You have no argument anymore, you’re just attempting to slam NXT for no reason.

 

[ryanwwe]

From the posts i read it seems that the TNA marks are generally the ones who are claiming it to be a failure. It is something new and at times off the wall but thats the very thing TNA gets praised for all to often. Doing new creative things is a barbaric practice but i believe its a step up for WWE. As much as they do wrong this is not all that bad imo.

 

[Reddannihilation]

I actually find it amusing for people to come on here and suggest with a straight face that NXT has been a failure. Granted the only people to have done so are, for the most part, the TNA smarks who cannot give credit where credit is due for anything WWE. Their love of TNA makes them incapable of posting anything positive about anything which is pro-WWE.

Wah wah wah, I can't actually come up with anything positive about NXT, but look those guys saying it isn't good like TNA, so I'll just whinge about TNA instead of staying on topic. That's you, that's what you sound like.

NXT has actually been surprisingly successful, whether you like the format of the show or whether you don't, the bottom line has been thumbs up all the way.

NXT tag line= Who will be the WWE's next breakout star?

Umm, who is this breakout star they've made. Cos all I can see is a bunch of replaceable jobbers and a mid-carder sharing one personality between the 7 of them. No one's buying NXTblood merchandise and they're all incredibly fucking green in the ring. Even Barrett, in fact Sheamus was better when he showed up fighting Cena because he had some level of in-ring ability.

What has NXT done? It introduced Bryan Danielson into the WWE world.

Yes it introduced one of the most popular independent wrestlers in the world, trained by none other than Shawn Michaels and William Regal. And they jobbed him out to the Great Khali and fired him for choking Justin Roberts...SUCCESS!!!! The only thing Bryan's situation has proven is that the WWE once again ditches the proven performer in favour of green as all hell nobodies that haven't performed anywhere else. Good job.

Now granted at the moment that does not appear to be a success, but I fully expect him back and NXT was his entry point into the WWE.

And this makes NXT a success as a show how? Oh, congratulations NXT you're so good that during the course of your first season you destroyed the credibility of an established world reknowned star and in your first crossover storyline you got hime fired...SUCCESS.

Even if he doesn't come back, his departure won't be due to a failure on the part of NXT, it will be for reasons out of NXT's control which could have happened even if he was a member of the RAW or SD! roster.

Would you like a simple way to prove NXT failed Bryan Danielson? It destroyed his credibility. Bryan should have been introduced as a mid-carder, who immediately sought out a mid-card title. Instead he was broken down to the level of a baby and constantly told on television he wasn't good enough for the WWE. It destroyed any credibility Bryan had. And in turn forced him to team up with a bunch of useless ***** in an attack that inadvertently lead to Bryan being fired. Well done NXT, you managed to destroy a quality mid-carder, with 10 years of experience in just a few months.

It has fast tracked Michael Barrett into prominence. Some people would suggest that he would have gotten there anyway, maybe so. But he got there way faster and with far more impact than he otherwise would.

That's funny because I could've sworn Sheamus got into a much higher position than Barrett in much less time and he was a product of NXT's predecessor. That sort of implies that WWECW has a better track record of producing successful stars.

And it gave the other six guys a quick push into a significant role on the flagship show. If WWE brings in 6 guys from developmental, or the indies, or TNA cast-offs, or whatever, how long does it typically take for them to establish themselves? A long time and some never do.

It took Sheamus 2 months. And took CM Punk about the same time. It took Kofi Kingston and Evan Bourne roughly the same amount of time. Now each of those guys is a solid WWE personality. I can guarantee more WWE fans can name Evan Bourne than they can David Otunga. So once again WWECW has produced better wrestlers than NXT.

These 6 guys are a prominent part of the second biggest PPV of the biggest wrestling promotion in the world, and that has happened because of NXT.

No, the NXTBlood didn't get together until after NXT. On NXT they just went through week after week of bad challenges and repetitive matches. NXT the show didn't feature anything related to that storyline.

Best case scenario? Danielson returns and does what the IWC says he is capable of. Barrett becomes the superstar everyone says he will. And the other 6 guys, or at least some/most of them, become plausible mid-carders, or even enhancement talent which is a necessary component of the business as well. Worst case scenario? It is a case of short term success. Danielson doesn't return, Barrett fizzles out, and the other guys get released. I don't forsee this but even if this happens, at least they will have gotten this run, this opportunity, which is more than 6 newbies would have gotten on their own.

Here's what I want to know, how does the NXTBlood reflect the success of the NXT program? It wasn't until the attack on RAW, not NXT, that people started noticing them. In all honesty those guys could've debuted on RAW attacking Cena and a week later introduced themselves. Would've saved everyone an entire season of boring television save for Bryan Danielson beating up Michael Cole.

The same people who criticize NXT actually have the face to then come on and talk about how great the Hardcore Justice nostalgia show is going to be, which is incredibly ironic.

This part of your argument is also known as, "I still haven't thought of one postive aspect of the NXT show, so I'll divert to whinging about TNA, again".

Rather than elevating 8 new guys to a shot at future success, the ECW/EV2.0 thing elevates no one and goes nowhere. Best case scenario? A couple of successful weeks leading up to a one successful PPV before these guys disappear back into oblivion until their next trip down memory lane, because let's be honest, even if this PPV goes well, it has no future. Worst case scenario? A lacklustre couple of weeks of old fat guys trying to recapture their glory days, which really weren't that glorious to begin with, followed by a PPV which stinks and actually alienates more TNA fans than it attracts ECW fans.

Paging Doctor Dipshit, Doctor Dipshit please make your way to the fuckwit ward. Question name 3 ways in which NXT the tv show, not the people who were on it, who did nothing there, showed up on RAW, attacked Cena and started a feud. The show itself, who has gone directly from NXT and established themselves as a star? Barrett hasn't, he's part of a team vs. team feud. The same thing Miz and Morrison did last year at Survivor Series.

Who from the first season of NXT has broken out as a star on their own?

Look TNA guys, I appreciate that you don't like WWE and therefore have to criticize it every chance you get. But at least try to be objective and logical in your criticism, otherwise it comes across as blind markdom.

Things in WWE I like; CM Punk, Kofi Kingston, Jack Swagger, Dashing Cody Rhodes, The Usos, The Hart Dynasty, Christian and Matt Hardy. So there goes that idea that we're here to rip on the WWE.

Now how about you show some objectivity;

NXT's self-proclaimed purpose is to find the next breakout star in the WWE. So far in the season and a half of NXT, who has broken out as a star in the WWE?

 

[KnowYoRole]

NXT had a lot to do with the storyline. The Nexus members were angry about what they were put through during their time on NXT and, like Barrett said, they promised each other they'd all have contracts whether they won NXT or not. So they invaded RAW to make their presence felt. NXT gave these stars the exposure and when they came out to invade RAW everyone knew who they were. If they just came on RAW and invaded without anyone knowing who they were or having any idea what they were about there would have been no backstory at all and that's not how you execute a proper storyline.

And it's obvious who the breakout star from season one was....wade barrett.????

 

[hatehabsforever]

I figured the posterboy for blind TNA smarkdom would have to make an appearance in this thread, the same Reddannihilation I just defended in another thread.

Who is the next breakout star? The next breakout star is obviously Wade Barrett, and I think he is going to be a star in the WWE for an extended period of time, and NXT introduced him into the WWE. Sure, Sheamus has made an impact in the WWE in a shorter period of time, but you know as well as I do that he's the exception to the rule in this regard. Most guys come along from developmental and search for a long while for an identity and most don't find it. The list of WWE guys who entered WWE by more traditional means and went nowhere and have either been released or are plodding along in the lower tier of the card is much longer than the list of guys like Sheamus who have made an impact quickly.

Of the other 6 guys, I would suggest to you that 4/6 will remain with the WWE in at leat a midcard role, at least, and if I were an executive with the WWE I'd be quite pleased with that.

Of course none of the NXT guys has established a unique singular identity, that's the point, the Nexus is an identity in and of itself, where the total unit is bigger than any of the individual parts (kayfabe). That's a big part of the storyline heading into Summerslam, will the egos of the RAW guys be able to co-exist, unlike the cohesive unit of Nexus.

Don't be naive, Red. Bryan Danielson will be back in the WWE sooner rather than later, and bigger than ever, certainly bigger than he would ever become in the indies. They had a plan to introduce him gradually into the picture, rather than introduce a relative unknown (to anyone who doesn't follow the indies like most pro wrestling casual fans) immediately. Sure the plans were temporarily delayed, that's not the fault of NXT. His jobbing to Khali was part of the development of his character which unfortunately has been postponed.

The NXTBlood represents NXT. Without NXT, the Nexus unit couldn't exist as is. Hard to believe you don't get the concept.

 

[Reddannihilation]

I figured the posterboy for blind TNA smarkdom would have to make an appearance in this thread, the same Reddannihilation I just defended in another thread.

Just because of this I had to go find that thread and be all awww. RESPEKT.

Who is the next breakout star? The next breakout star is obviously Wade Barrett, and I think he is going to be a star in the WWE for an extended period of time, and NXT introduced him into the WWE.

This is fair enough, but I don't think it changes the fact that the NXT show itself isn't all that good, which is what IDR's point had been.

Sure, Sheamus has made an impact in the WWE in a shorter period of time, but you know as well as I do that he's the exception to the rule in this regard. Most guys come along from developmental and search for a long while for an identity and most don't find it.

This is also true, but keeping in line with IDR's original post the NXT show itself currently hasn't achieved it's personal goals. If a few months from now Wade Barrett is a legit contender I'll happily take back my statements that he's not a break out star. But as it currently stands NXT's predecessor WWECW had a better track record of creating solid stars to move up to the main roster.

The list of WWE guys who entered WWE by more traditional means and went nowhere and have either been released or are plodding along in the lower tier of the card is much longer than the list of guys like Sheamus who have made an impact quickly.

Yeah but lots of guys have made an impact they way the NXT season 1 guys have and as soon as their initial story died down no one cared anymore. Gene Snitsky, Heidenreich, Khali. All of those guys made debuts in a similar manner to the Nexus. They attacked top guys, beat them down. Feuded with them and then dropped into obscurity.

Of the other 6 guys, I would suggest to you that 4/6 will remain with the WWE in at leat a midcard role, at least, and if I were an executive with the WWE I'd be quite pleased with that.

But again you're speaking for those guys personal successes after NXT. The actual NXT show in itself hasn't helped them out all that much. Aside from Bryan and Barrett, I highly doubt many people paid attention to the other guys until they jumped to RAW, which really implies that NXT as a show didn't expose them as much as they wanted it to.

Of course none of the NXT guys has established a unique singular identity, that's the point, the Nexus is an identity in and of itself, where the total unit is bigger than any of the individual parts (kayfabe). That's a big part of the storyline heading into Summerslam, will the egos of the RAW guys be able to co-exist, unlike the cohesive unit of Nexus.

And when that unit disbands, the majority of them are going to sink faster than the Titanic. Again these guys individual success after participating in an angle designed to get them noticed reflects poorly on NXT. If NXT were as successful as it was hoped it would be, each guy could've crossed directly onto RAW or Smackdown and immediately had a fan or hater following. Instead they've been forced to remain a group and establish themselves as a group again because they didn't get it right the first time.

Don't be naive, Red. Bryan Danielson will be back in the WWE sooner rather than later, and bigger than ever, certainly bigger than he would ever become in the indies.

That's one way to look at it, but suppose what ever higher up it was that decided to cut Bryan to save face, doesn't feel like letting him back in. Seems like a waste.

They had a plan to introduce him gradually into the picture, rather than introduce a relative unknown (to anyone who doesn't follow the indies like most pro wrestling casual fans) immediately. Sure the plans were temporarily delayed, that's not the fault of NXT. His jobbing to Khali was part of the development of his character which unfortunately has been postponed.

And I maintan that Bryan Danielson was systematically ruined by the NXT process.

The NXTBlood represents NXT. Without NXT, the Nexus unit couldn't exist as is. Hard to believe you don't get the concept.

no I get what you're saying, but here's the thing you don't seem to grasp. First the original post was that NXT the show itself was a failure, in all fairness I'd consider it difficult to call it more than a mild success. It certainly hasn't done much better than WWECW did. And really the fact that the first season guys had to remain a group and re-introduce themselves, to me, says they would've been better just being stuck on RAW immediately.

but in my opinion, NXT the show hasn't done it's job, the majority of WWE fans aren't watching it. And because of that they've had to re-introduce the first group as a faction. When really at least 2 of them should've been ready to go it alone. Also it replaced WWECW which was a show that started off well and gradually drew less and less viewers. NXT hasn't regained those viewers, which to me says that it's stayed at the same level as WWECW and the WWE's opinion on that show was that it had failed. So I can't call NXT a success in its current state. But that's just me, I know the whole TNA argument can come off as me being anti-WWE, but that's because this thread had nothing to do with TNA and somehow it got derailed into a TNA-bashing thread.

Just saying.